There have been some really good poasts in this thread - namely @strummingram.
Prayers for Charlottesville
- Thread starter Raising Heel
- Start date
That's a fair question, I think.
Do I need to take down the tiki torches on my deck?
I have to reluctantly agree with trump. Both sides showed up looking for a fight. Why the media is ignoring that is interesting. The leftists had helmets, shields, urine bombs and mace. Dont think for one sec i dont find the rwers disgusting but if u show up wanting a fight then stfu with your whining when u get one. Now the car assault is a diff thing altogether. That was cold blooded murder.
The group, that did include some kkk and white supremacists, applied for a permit to assemble in the park for a speaking event. It was granted. Then the mayor tried to revoke it. It was reinstated. Before they could even enter the park, the lead group were pepper sprayed by antifa. Based on the violence, STARTED BY ANTIFA, the police declared it an unlawful assembly, and ordered them to disperse. Then antifa was beating the alt righters as they were being led out of the park. Antifa then turned on the police and the press.
So again, we have antifa and the left preventing a group of people from exercising their right of lawful assembly, and shutting down free speech by their use of violence, just as they have done since before the election.
The alt righters were expecting this, and they showed up ready to fight. So did antifa. Both groups contain despicable members, with ideas antithetical to American values, but one side has their involvement and incitement whitewashed. There is no excuse for what that guy did, that was murder, and I hope he pays a heavy price, but the way all the blame for this is being laid at the feet of the right is absolutely inaccurate and unfair. Antifa has decided that no one will be allowed to speak that they don't agree with, and it's not reasonable to expect the right to continue to take that lying down. A clash was inevitable. Two groups are involved, both beneath contempt, neither of whom I agree with. But one group has their violence ignored, and the other group has their violence rightfully condemned.
But until the police begin to arrest those that INITIATE the violence, I'm afraid this will only continue to escalate.
I think Trump's response that mentioned "... on all sides" was appropriate. I think the liberal-leaning people who are upset that he didn't identify the white supremacists by name are showing some hypocrisy when they defended Obama's use of ISIL. It's not an identical comparison, but it just seems like a reason to bash Trump for the sake of bashing Trump. You get what you give. That how it works for all of us. I don't need Trump to call Neo-Nazis by their name in order to know they're Neo-Nazis. It can't hurt to call them by name, but, politicians speak a different language anyway.
Who are you and what have you done with Strum?
It's the symbol of Vanguard America, who want an "exclusively white" America.
Today he has specifically condemned the KKK, neo-Nazis, and white supremacists. Not sure why it took him three days to do so when the murderer's identity was known by the time he spoke.
This was my specific criticism. I think the thing that struck me most about the non-statement was the failure to address this atrocity and the resulting loss of life.
ETA: Edited to note it was today that Trump issued the new condemnation.
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Where are you getting this information?
I watched Saturday's events unfold live and don't know what you're talking about. There were multiple instances of unprovoked violence by both antifa and alt-right members. I like @UNC71-00's idea to just these idiots just fight it out.
Well, I know there were two "teams" that were on hand. And, apparently there was blame to go around. So, he was accurate.
The thing that troubles me about Trump, in these matters, isn't always Trump himself, directly. When I hear guys like David Duke on camera and making statements like he did- basically "We're taking our country back and that is why we elected Trump"- it implies that Trump is some kind of White Nationalist sympathizer. I don't believe Donald Trump is that, but I know he is compelled to show favor to people who adulate him. I believe it would absolutely be in Trump's very best interest (and ours) to publicly separate himself from those types, and be very clear about it. Being hesitant about that is troubling. He could avoid a lot of criticism and actually help galvanize some bipartisan respect if he would do that. The left-leaning media will be extremely critical of that, and rightfully so. Trump has come to enjoy pissing off the media that isn't Fox, Bretbart, The Blaze, or InfoWars. That ego is crippling sometimes.
ETA: But, I don't believe that he intentionally empowered David Duke types. Nevertheless, it has happened. He (Trump) has to make a choice at some point, to make it very clear that he's not representing these fringe, racist groups, if these incidences continue. If he keeps ignoring those questions, he's going to lose more and more credibility and trust. Then, eventually, all he will have supporting him are David Duke and company. I feel sure he would regret that.
I think you've nailed it here. He's hesitant to criticize people who've been supportive of him, which makes his motivations open to interpretation.
Same thing happened when David Duke endorsed him during his campaign. It took him weeks to finally disavow the KKK. I was re-watching some of Trump's interviews on this yesterday and noticed he repeatedly called them the Klu Klux Klan (it's Ku). That alone tells me he can't be familiar with the group and is unlikely to be a sympathizer. Like you've said, it's probably just his ego that prevents him nipping this stuff in the bud.
I am reluctant to chime in on any of this, because here lately it seems offering opinions just gets you blasted. Fortunately, most here seem to be pretty level headed and open dialogue can still take place.
I have always like Col. Allen West and I think he hits the nail on the head here:
MASH HERE
I have always like Col. Allen West and I think he hits the nail on the head here:
MASH HERE
What I found interesting from that response was this (quoted from the link):
"Let me begin by saying, I deplore any form of supremacist view — white, black, Hispanic, Islamic. I will be the first to openly state and embrace, a sense of American exceptionalism and supremacy that is rooted in our founding principles and values. Any and all else that is contradictory is to be condemned."
Unless I'm missing something, he prefaced the summation by blatantly contradicting himself. He deplores any supremacist view except the one he subscribes to.
Then, he proceeds to claim that, basically, he is tired of partisan politics driving a wedge in our society. So, he pulls out his own partisan hammer and slams it onto the wedge over and over in his article.
To address one of his questions, I say: "Yes, Allen, a tree has fallen in the woods. It made a sound. What you would have preferred to have happen... didn't happen."
I'm not blasting you, Littlejon. I'm simply commenting on the link you shared.
Yes, but we need specifics here. Otherwise it's just heresay.
Completely agree with both you and Strum. Unlike many others I know, I've never gotten the vibe Trump actually sympathizes or secretly supports these groups. When I first saw that interview where he didn't outright renounce David Duke, I got the impression that it wasn't sympathy for KKK/white supremacists that made him do that, he just either didn't care or didn't give enough of a shit. A WASP growing up in a rich family in New York comes across many things, but I doubt rednecks in halloween costumes are one of them.
Pride cometh before the fall, as they say. This man's ego is unlike anything we've ever seen, and every President has one. But I'm worried he'll go too far to save his skin, even if it meant doing something highly unethical or illegal. Wouldn't put it past him.
Remember that one time we had a POTUS who would completely jump the gun on all race related matters ... 'cops acted stupidly' ... 'Trayvon Martin, that could have been my son' ...Ferguson ... on and on and on. Oh and that POTUS actually INVITED BLM to the White House, even after they took credit for murdering cops and demanded more.
Nice to have a Prez who is slow to blame, doesn't take a one-side race-baiting approach ... and now, after time to digest what exactly happened, has made a strong, clear and visceral statement condemning those who should be blamed. Breath of fresh Oval Office air!! Go 45!!
Nice to have a Prez who is slow to blame, doesn't take a one-side race-baiting approach ... and now, after time to digest what exactly happened, has made a strong, clear and visceral statement condemning those who should be blamed. Breath of fresh Oval Office air!! Go 45!!
There will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be racism in this country ... both ways. As a white Dad with a black daughter, I can tell you at least 10 different stories of racist comments directed towards me, sometimes in the form of questions to my daughter, with me holding her. Such is life. The majority of the country is anti-racist, compassionate and stays out of everyone's business. We'll always the fringe idiots that do stuff like this. Always. As I tell my kids nearly every day: it's simple, just treat people the way you'd like to be treated - nothing more, nothing less. Idiots will be idiots - gotta love them too.
If he is not a white nationalist sympathizer he needs to get rid of the white nationalist he put on his staff. Don't you think??
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time to digest?...you can't be serious...so no pressure forced his hand to respond, again?...yeah, okay.
and let's be real, in case you forgot, black lives matter protests grew from kids getting shot in the streets...this was about taking down a confederate statue.
Doesn't matter how just or unjust the underlying cause is - the violence that these groups instigate is appalling.
I agree with the notion that we should just put the Neo-Nazis, Islamic Extremists, Antifa, BLM, and the KKK into one giant pit and watch them blow each other's brains out.
i'm not paying to watch it, though...i'll check twitter for updates.
Well, I know I have heard Trump repeatedly rebuke and renounce any support of people like David Duke during his campaign. I was driving some today and Hannity was on talk radio and he played a "medley" of Trump being pretty clear about wanting no part of their support. Now, as you allude to, with the mention of appointing a white nationalist to your staff; actions speak louder than words. You'd think that you wouldn't want any kind of ambiguity or potentially mixed-message. But, as we already know, if Trump can garner support and praise for himself, that is important to him. I still don't think Donald Trump is a man who wants the white race to rule supreme. He's not that calculated, nor is he that kind of person anyway. BUT... for whatever reason, and by whatever the means and circumstances, he's found himself surrounded by people who are hardly socially diverse. Sometimes, I think he is being played and he's not really savvy enough to notice, and wouldn't really resist it much if he did. He's not really affected by racial tensions personally. He didn't want the job so he could bring people together socially.
This is a right leaning site, but this is not an opinion piece. The reporter that's quoted is the one that posted that the alt to fight was being attacked as they were led from the park. The chemicals the police chief referenced is the pepper spray I mentioned.
www.dailywire.com/news/19708/charlottesville-police-chief-there-were-mutually-frank-camp
www.dailywire.com/news/19708/charlottesville-police-chief-there-were-mutually-frank-camp
'hands up, don't shoot' ... right? LOL
point remains, TrumpWins didnt spout off and blame the cops, or blacks, or the prior administration (he actually defended the ass clown) ... admirable restraint in today's age.
White redneck dumbasses protest and violance breaks out and it is domestic terrorism, but BLM does it and it is an oppressed group that has the right to do so because of what happened to them 100 years ago?
This was terrible racism is an ugly thing and it turns my stomach to know that our America is an petty as to hate a man because of the color of this or her skin color, but the double standard is just a sickening!
Vice mayor of Charlotteville folks change his color and see how these tweets workout?
This was terrible racism is an ugly thing and it turns my stomach to know that our America is an petty as to hate a man because of the color of this or her skin color, but the double standard is just a sickening!
Vice mayor of Charlotteville folks change his color and see how these tweets workout?
Don't use 'fake news' as a counter argument. It comes off as lazy, and you're smarter than that.
Come on Billy, you're better than that. Calling these guys Nazis is just dumb.
