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Prayers for Charlottesville

Strum my opinion is any group that protest is silly. It changes nothing and creates days like today.
If people never protested on some level, nothing would ever change.

Civil Rights protests in the 60's helped bring them the right to eat at the same lunch counters and use the same restrooms and water fountains as white people, in the South.

People protest against injustices and if they're being treated unfairly, as they see it. I think civil unrest and civil disobedience is what the country was founded to secure.
 
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If people never protested on some level, nothing would ever change.

Civil Rights protests in the 60's helped bring them the right to eat at the same lunch counters and use the same restrooms and water fountains as white people, in the South.

People protest against injustices and if they're being treated unfairly, as they see it. I think civil unrest and civil disobedience is what the country was founded to secure.

I can agree with that but this is not the 60's. Far cry from it. What is so hard about admitting that these are a minority on both sides that cause this crap. I detest white supremacist as much as anyone. They are a joke.
 
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I can agree with that but this is not the 60's. Far cry from it. What is so hard about admitting that these are a minority on both sides that cause this crap. I detest white supremacist as much as anyone. They are a joke.
It's always the 60's. Every generation has something to improve upon from the last. It's always any time, if people feel like they're being oppressed. You may not think they are, I might not think they are... but, they do. I'm sure you know that there were plenty of white people in the 60's that thought black people were being treated just fine, but black people didn't believe they were. And, I think history has shown us that they were being oppressed. But, if they'd never tried to change it, we'd still have bathrooms and water fountains that say "White" and "Colored."

So, it really just depends on who you are. If you've never felt oppressed or maligned, then I'd be thankful for that. But, to dismiss other people because you can't empathize with them might not be the best way to look at it.
 
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What a bunch of horse shit from you libs/T-Rump haters...I swear NOTHING he does will EVER please you people.....you guys want him to start condemning people without even knowing any details....that is STUPIDITY at its finest......he called out all sides involved in this idiocy that went on...he called out the violence......he stopped short of pointing any fingers...maybe because he wants to wait and see who actually caused the violence.....I hate the idiot neo nazis but in this Country free speech is allowed...you know kinda like all the libs calling T-Rump every name in the book....calling for T-Rump to be killed....etc. You guys that jump on the band wagon instead of waiting for the specifics to come out are like a bunch of women on facebook gossiping. MY goodness.....at least wait until we have some details....and if you are going to call out the neo nazis.....because they are truly idiots...then call out all of the other hate groups that routinely have these stupid marches!!!
 
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It seems like the trendy thing to do these days is to jump on social media immediately after something happens and react with rightous indignation...kinda like using all of the stupid buzz words that are so popular today.....damn embarrassing!!!
 
What a bunch of horse shit from you libs/T-Rump haters...I swear NOTHING he does will EVER please you people.....you guys want him to start condemning people without even knowing any details....that is STUPIDITY at its finest......he called out all sides involved in this idiocy that went on...he called out the violence......he stopped short of pointing any fingers...maybe because he wants to wait and see who actually caused the violence.....I hate the idiot neo nazis but in this Country free speech is allowed...you know kinda like all the libs calling T-Rump every name in the book....calling for T-Rump to be killed....etc. You guys that jump on the band wagon instead of waiting for the specifics to come out are like a bunch of women on facebook gossiping. MY goodness.....at least wait until we have some details....and if you are going to call out the neo nazis.....because they are truly idiots...then call out all of the other hate groups that routinely have these stupid marches!!!
Um, what details did he need to wait for? People were run over by a car. I'm not sure what details could come out to justify a guy running over people.
 
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Yeah, I couldn't care less about a statue but have no issue with a protest for that. Obviously, like you said, this wasn't really that but just a reason for idiots to show out.
 
Which isn't wrong. I don't think the statue should be removed. But these white supremacists were using it as an excuse to cause trouble.
I'm indifferent. I can detach "social injustice" from the imagery of The Civil War. My entire family is scattered around Chesterfield, Prince George and Dinwiddie County , VA. Many are buried in Blandford Cemetery near The Crater and Petersburg Battlefield. I've got 4 direct lineages to Confederate Generals and Privates. If you're from there, or have family that are, you're surrounded by the remnants of that war. It's everywhere.

As much as I am ashamed of the institution my ancestors fought to preserve, I'm not fixated on the imagery to where I believe that the imagery perpetuates racial prejudice. I'm also not clinging to idea that the imagery must remain. It's never going to be erased from history. The statues don't make me feel pride, nor do they bother me. But... I'm having to accept that a lot of people are bothered by it. I know that I want racial tensions to dissipate and vanish, if possible. If it means taking statues down, take them down. I don't want the imagery to be considered "against the law" for individuals to display. But, if the cities and towns of the Old South are shifting to where they want to remove these statues from public view, then I'm fine with it. I don't see it as surrendering anything. And, even if it is, I'm happy to surrender images that basically glorify the institution of Slavery that the Confederacy wanted to maintain. It never ceases to amaze me how that war and the circumstances are still felt in this country generation after generation. It's almost like it's every new generation's responsibility to fight it again and again until it's finally all gone. It's a costly price to pay to enslave a race of people for almost 3 centuries. It may take 3 more to wash it away.
 
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I read where a lot of downtown Charlottesville businesses were displaying these signs :

DHCxlOcVoAAhaNB.jpg
 
^good point... it would NEVER happen but the next time these nazi fools want to hold a rally, if no one paid any attention to the idiots, how awesome would that be? If no one showed up to counter-protest, or no news coverage was shown, would they just scurry away like the cockroaches that they are?
 
^good point... it would NEVER happen but the next time these nazi fools want to hold a rally, if no one paid any attention to the idiots, how awesome would that be? If no one showed up to counter-protest, or no news coverage was shown, would they just scurry away like the cockroaches that they are?

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make any noise?
 
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James Alex Fields at the 'Trump rally' yesterday . . wonder how he's going to feel about his actions in about 30 years(tho I'm hoping it's much longer) while he's still in prison.

DHE57R4XUAAcPfN.jpg

DHE57R4XUAICyXS.jpg




I like this pic the best :

DHE57R5XoAEmLD7.jpg
 
I'm indifferent. I can detach "social injustice" from the imagery of The Civil War. My entire family is scattered around Chesterfield, Prince George and Dinwiddie County , VA. Many are buried in Blandford Cemetery near The Crater and Petersburg Battlefield. I've got 4 direct lineages to Confederate Generals and Privates. If you're from there, or have family that are, you're surrounded by the remnants of that war. It's everywhere.

As much as I am ashamed of the institution my ancestors fought to preserve, I'm not fixated on the imagery to where I believe that the imagery perpetuates racial prejudice. I'm also not clinging to idea that the imagery must remain. It's never going to be erased from history. The statues don't make me feel pride, nor do they bother me. But... I'm having to accept that a lot of people are bothered by it. I know that I want racial tensions to dissipate and vanish, if possible. If it means taking statues down, take them down. I don't want the imagery to be considered "against the law" for individuals to display. But, if the cities and towns of the Old South are shifting to where they want to remove these statues from public view, then I'm fine with it. I don't see it as surrendering anything. And, even if it is, I'm happy to surrender images that basically glorify the institution of Slavery that the Confederacy wanted to maintain. It never ceases to amaze me how that war and the circumstances are still felt in this country generation after generation. It's almost like it's every new generation's responsibility to fight it again and again until it's finally all gone. It's a costly price to pay to enslave a race of people for almost 3 centuries. It may take 3 more to wash it away.

Good poast.


^good point... it would NEVER happen but the next time these nazi fools want to hold a rally, if no one paid any attention to the idiots, how awesome would that be? If no one showed up to counter-protest, or no news coverage was shown, would they just scurry away like the cockroaches that they are?

Yes! Yes, yes, yes. That would be awesome. I'm picturing in my head, a group of white supremacists yelling at a black girl as she walks by. But instead of her reacting, I imagine her on the phone telling a story, laughing and carrying on - not even acknowledging the existence of those that hate her. That would be the biggest win of all.
 
The problem with this is everyone is freaking out because it was white supremacist. It's fine if BLM raises hell, burns buildings and everything thing else, all the while chanting "pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon". The majority of this country gets along just fine every single day. It's these fringe idiots on both sides that cause 100% of the problems. Obama is proud because HE instigated this crap from day one and I agree that Trump should have been more verbal about who started this. However, Obama always blamed it on the Police so who knows.

actually, it's not fine...don't be an idiot.
 
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This should be condemned. Just as bad as Obama not calling out BLM or Islamic terrorism. BLM, Islamic terrorism, white supremacists should all be called out as wrong by the President. We've been in a tough spot as a country for the last 8.5 years having two separate presidents who have had agendas against calling out these various groups.

last 8.5!?!?...try the last 17
 
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I'm indifferent. I can detach "social injustice" from the imagery of The Civil War. My entire family is scattered around Chesterfield, Prince George and Dinwiddie County , VA. Many are buried in Blandford Cemetery near The Crater and Petersburg Battlefield. I've got 4 direct lineages to Confederate Generals and Privates. If you're from there, or have family that are, you're surrounded by the remnants of that war. It's everywhere.

As much as I am ashamed of the institution my ancestors fought to preserve, I'm not fixated on the imagery to where I believe that the imagery perpetuates racial prejudice. I'm also not clinging to idea that the imagery must remain. It's never going to be erased from history. The statues don't make me feel pride, nor do they bother me. But... I'm having to accept that a lot of people are bothered by it. I know that I want racial tensions to dissipate and vanish, if possible. If it means taking statues down, take them down. I don't want the imagery to be considered "against the law" for individuals to display. But, if the cities and towns of the Old South are shifting to where they want to remove these statues from public view, then I'm fine with it. I don't see it as surrendering anything. And, even if it is, I'm happy to surrender images that basically glorify the institution of Slavery that the Confederacy wanted to maintain. It never ceases to amaze me how that war and the circumstances are still felt in this country generation after generation. It's almost like it's every new generation's responsibility to fight it again and again until it's finally all gone. It's a costly price to pay to enslave a race of people for almost 3 centuries. It may take 3 more to wash it away.

The ironic thing is, Robert E. Lee was an infinitely better man than any of the scumbags causing trouble. Yes, he did fight for the Confederacy and therefore remains on the wrong side of history. But he's more complex than that. I've read a few biographies on him. This man was an excellent father and husband, and believed in the concept of honor. He also denounced slavery a number of times, and his primary motivation was protecting Virginia.

So, in my own view, Lee is not the symbol of white supremacy some make him out to be. I understand that you want to lessen racial tensions strum, we all want that. I think we all want to see a day where this stops and people can live as people, without fear or oppression.

But taking down old Confederate statues doesn't do anything to address that problem. It just makes people feel good about something that means very little. It's trying to put a band aid on a gash. If people were really serious about addressing the modern day issues and legacy of the old south and racism, they would take a different approach.
 
Um, what details did he need to wait for? People were run over by a car. I'm not sure what details could come out to justify a guy running over people.
How many times have ppl done things and the finger gets pointed only for that to be in the wrong direction....I will answer a bunch!!!!! Innocent until proven guilty means jack to people who simply want a statement condemning someone, something or some group!!! T-Rump made a statement that condemned the violence...what people want is for T-Rump to blame a certain group, nationality movement etc...shoot how many idiots have already blamed this on T-Rump....I will answer a bunch....I have NEVER heard T-Rump support or endorse this group of idiots....how about we wait to let the facts come out......when that occurs then I expect T-Rump to make a more concrete and specific statement....this bull shit of wanting a specific statement immediately without verifying the facts is stupid and moronic!
 
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While it may not be appropriate for R.E. Lee to be completely vilified as a symbol of racism or hatred, we still need to consider the fact that the Confederacy seceded and no longer wanted to be a part of this country. Last time I checked, that's a traitorous act.

Most of these statues weren't erected within the next few years after the Civil War, as those wounds were still too deep. A lot of these statues went up in the 50's / 60's and were - to some degree - a way for state and local governments in the southeast to make a statement against the burgeoning civil rights movement.

We should never try to erase the ugly parts of our country's history. It happened and we need to remember and learn from it. However, I have no problem with the removal of these statues as we shouldn't be honoring them on government properties.
 
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How many times have ppl done things and the finger gets pointed only for that to be in the wrong direction....I will answer a bunch!!!!! Innocent until proven guilty means jack to people who simply want a statement condemning someone, something or some group!!! T-Rump made a statement that condemned the violence...what people want is for T-Rump to blame a certain group, nationality movement etc...shoot how many idiots have already blamed this on T-Rump....I will answer a bunch....I have NEVER heard T-Rump support or endorse this group of idiots....how about we wait to let the facts come out......when that occurs then I expect T-Rump to make a more concrete and specific statement....this bull shit of wanting a specific statement immediately without verifying the facts is stupid and moronic!
Again what facts need to come out? There is no denying he drove the car.
 
The ironic thing is, Robert E. Lee was an infinitely better man than any of the scumbags causing trouble. Yes, he did fight for the Confederacy and therefore remains on the wrong side of history. But he's more complex than that. I've read a few biographies on him. This man was an excellent father and husband, and believed in the concept of honor. He also denounced slavery a number of times, and his primary motivation was protecting Virginia.

So, in my own view, Lee is not the symbol of white supremacy some make him out to be. I understand that you want to lessen racial tensions strum, we all want that. I think we all want to see a day where this stops and people can live as people, without fear or oppression.

But taking down old Confederate statues doesn't do anything to address that problem. It just makes people feel good about something that means very little. It's trying to put a band aid on a gash. If people were really serious about addressing the modern day issues and legacy of the old south and racism, they would take a different approach.

Spot on.
 
The ironic thing is, Robert E. Lee was an infinitely better man than any of the scumbags causing trouble. Yes, he did fight for the Confederacy and therefore remains on the wrong side of history. But he's more complex than that. I've read a few biographies on him. This man was an excellent father and husband, and believed in the concept of honor. He also denounced slavery a number of times, and his primary motivation was protecting Virginia.

So, in my own view, Lee is not the symbol of white supremacy some make him out to be. I understand that you want to lessen racial tensions strum, we all want that. I think we all want to see a day where this stops and people can live as people, without fear or oppression.

But taking down old Confederate statues doesn't do anything to address that problem. It just makes people feel good about something that means very little. It's trying to put a band aid on a gash. If people were really serious about addressing the modern day issues and legacy of the old south and racism, they would take a different approach.
Well, for what it's worth, Robert E. Lee, himself, was opposed to the South trying to glorify or memorialize itself. Here's an article about it: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/read...erate-civil-war-memorials-20170515-story.html

But, I learned that about Lee many years ago. The statues are not history. History is actually unique to the minds and understanding of every individual. Collectively, we try to get on common ground with our interpretations.

I also agree that taking down statues doesn't make racial prejudice go away. However, on some level, I'm beginning to realize that the remnants of that ideology and the general attitude- that black people are inferior to white people- will eventually have to be eliminated if we ever hope to experience a better situation between the "races." I don't have all the answers. I gotta believe that when any black person sees a Confederate monument, there's at least the possibility that they could pause and and reflect on what that statue possibly symbolizes to them- someone who descended from the race of people who were treated as property for a few centuries. That doesn't mean they will react violently and demand that their personal failings in life is the fault of that statue's existence. But, it's not helping.

And, when I see German swastika flags, I may eventually start imagining my great uncle in the Battle of the Bulge who came back home a shell of himself because of what he saw and endured fighting the Nazi ideology in 1944 and 45.

I do NOT want the right to carry flags, display flags, and even shout your love of the Confederacy and even loving Adolf Hitler, to be banned or censored EVER! But, we have come to revere memorials in a different context. As I said earlier, I don't attach visceral feelings toward them. At least, I don't think I do. Truth be told, I can control my thoughts, not my feelings. When I see them, I don't automatically "think" anything. I've seen them my whole life. I might think something different if there were a statue of King George III, or Charles Manson. I'm not a very good barometer for typical human perception anyway. I'm odd and need to use that as a disclaimer every time I speak.
 
How many times have ppl done things and the finger gets pointed only for that to be in the wrong direction....I will answer a bunch!!!!! Innocent until proven guilty means jack to people who simply want a statement condemning someone, something or some group!!! T-Rump made a statement that condemned the violence...what people want is for T-Rump to blame a certain group, nationality movement etc...shoot how many idiots have already blamed this on T-Rump....I will answer a bunch....I have NEVER heard T-Rump support or endorse this group of idiots....how about we wait to let the facts come out......when that occurs then I expect T-Rump to make a more concrete and specific statement....this bull shit of wanting a specific statement immediately without verifying the facts is stupid and moronic!
Yup, they just want to here the word white from his mouth so they can loop it endlessly through the news cycle. When the Antifa and
Blm thugs beat the shit out of people they just kind of meld into the crowd and the story is never reported. When this happens all whiteys are to blame.
 
Yup, they just want to here the word white from his mouth so they can loop it endlessly through the news cycle.
When this happens all whiteys are to blame.
I would prefer that he did call them out as the white supremacist/nazi's that they are, so that myself - as a white dude - is not lumped in with those hate groups. I would hope that most white people feel the same way.

And yes, there is hate and violence on the extreme right and extreme left. Any group that carries out such acts should be called out.
 
I would prefer that he did call them out as the white supremacist/nazi's that they are, so that myself - as a white dude - is not lumped in with those hate groups. I would hope that most white people feel the same way.

And yes, there is hate and violence on the extreme right and extreme left. Any group that carries out such acts should be called out.

Bingo. Extremism needs to be condemned in all forms. Muslim, black, white, etc. These people were self identifying as far right white supremacists. They themselves are using their identity as white people in the central part of their politics. Therefore, they need to be called what they are- racist scumbags.
 
I don't really care what Trump, or any other politician, calls them. Politicians pander, that's part of their job. I don't believe Donald Trump, himself, is any more racist than most people of his generation. Probably much less, truth be told. Trump isn't in-touch with middle-class America and certainly has no clue about poverty-level people. He's never been affected by race at all, would be my guess.

It does concern me that white supremacists have come to feel empowered by Trump being president. Of course, it's possible that is merely embellished because of the circumstances and situations surrounding his campaign. I hate to admit that people are so easily led by politicians and their words and actions. Sometimes, I wonder if maybe this is just how the story must play-out after the "first black president." There's a collective resistance to that by whatever racial intolerance exists in each of us and all of us.
 
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