Quick stuff (Louisville game)...

[gary-7]

...and that's how you create a "trap game" for yourself

Look guys --- it's late and that was not pretty, so I'll keep this very brief:

- This was so much about listless effort/intensity. That showed itself mostly on MISSING BUNNIES. That's the sort of nonsense that plagued us early in the season that I hoped we had gotten past. Sure, there was contact and a lame crew, but I lost count at a dozen blown finishes that were the sort we had been mostly converting during our recent good run.

- I liked that we started out scrambling to mitigate any let-down, but Lordy, we lost the initial energy once we went away from the early 44. Also, coasting set in after our early hot shooting threatened to make it a laffer.

- I figured Withers would step up vs his old team, and he certainly did --- best game as a Heel --- and a good thing, too...

- our guys STILL aren't consistently looking/anticipating passes, and Hubert, please, if you're gonna take that pre-half timeout, Cadeau needs to be in the game --- period. You're just wasting an opportunity otherwise.

- Finally, FORTUNATELY we rediscovered enough effort/intensity after the last under-8 to finally put this one away, but I'm gonna tell ya --- if we go up to BC with what we brought tonight, we're gonna get beat.

Anyway, that's all I got. These games happen, and I'd sure rather survive one than not. So, I'll take the W, but let's use this one as a learning experience from the players thru the staff, and get that effort/intensity mojo back as we're looking at the dreaded Saturday/Monday turnaround...

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

Gary-7 u r right on as I felt after the first 10 minutes the intensity level just disappeared and it looked like them team just was going thru the motions.

Coach Davis cannot be happy how Louisville came out in the second half and hit 9 of their first 10 shots with many of them from deep. He also cannot be happy with the just average free throw shooting and all of the bunnies missed.

Coach Davis will be happy on way Withers played not just the points but the rebounds and hustle all over the court.,When the team watches the game film it is probably not going to be a happy time…

 

[Ozheelfan]

Similar thoughts here…. Could easily have been a loss and last year likely would have been.
We all have to come to terms with the reality that no team wins out from New Years Eve…. At least not in recent decades. But at least this wasn’t a loss and if one comes hopefully it’ll be away against a decent team.
The pre-halftime timeout had me yelling at the screen… pointless and lacking imagination… when I saw withers drift to the arc I thought that maybe Hubert had drawn up something different… but no, just RJ missing a contested three.
Great to see Withers having a big one, I hope he rolls with the momentum.
6-0 in conference is nothing to sneeze at!

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

So now Coach and staff have some talking points for practice today and Friday. And we still got a wire to
wire victory to keep us atop the ACC. Jaelyn played his best game as a Tar Heel and we withstood the Cardinals,
who jacked up threes and hit a lot of them (unlike our recent road foes). Elliot’s steal and slam dunk
was an impressive play for sure. RJ and Armando were steady and Cormac got screwed on some foul calls.
Things got dicey in half two but we did enough to keep them at arm’s length. It wasn’t a masterpiece (considering
the opponent, who just went into Coral Gables and beat the U) but its still a GDTBATH.

 

[dtodd4475]

Louisville is not a good team by any stretch of the imagination, and after jumping on them early getting up 16 quickly, and maintaining a 20 point or so advantage at the half I was confident it would be another night for extended rest and some deep bench minutes the last 8 to 10 minutes or so.

That was not to be after the 2nd half poor start. Had to play it out, but did kick it back into gear to finish fairly strong down the stretch. Mando and Withers had thier way on the front line, scoring and rebounding.

Shot the 3 ball well, and free throws are weird. 76% overall for the year is good, but 4 really good shooters among the core 8. Mando, Withers, 80%and RJ/Cormac elite 90's , Mando a tick under 80% for the year is huge, but also 4 poor shooters. Washington and Trimble low 60's and Ingam and Cadeau high 50's. Yikes !!!

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I would much rather learn these lessons in a win! Much like Roy loved to use lackluster play even in a loss to teach/inspire his team, I think Hubs will use this "effort" to benefit the team in the long run. Nothing teaches better than seeing a 20 point lead dwindle to freakin' 5 points! BUT once again I am proud that the team fought through the lapse and pushed the lead back to where it should have been. I am a little worried about the number of missed layups, especially from Bacot. In my opinion, until this team proves they will not lapse, we should not slow down play or try to milk the clock when we have a lead. I was worried at the half that we might feel the game was already won and come out flat. I loved Hubs using a long bench and I loved him responding immediately with Trimble when Clark looked like he might be breaking out!

Great to escape with a win and some fuel to improve!

 

[tcb22]

This is another lesson for the team and lots of film for Coach to use in the film room and practices. Here is the difference between this year and last year for me: last year, I would have been on the verge of a stroke as I watched the lead dwindle away and watched dumb play after dumb play. I would have fully expected us to lose and we often did. This year, I had confidence that we were going to buckle down and not let an inferior team come all the way back. And sure enough, they did. Defense (Trimble) picked up, Withers showed us why Hubert has been playing him, and we closed them out going away.

 

[DSouthr]

One of the most difficult things, maybe the most difficult thing, for a coach is to go in to the half with a huge lead and trying to get his team to play with the same level of intensity that got them that huge lead. We saw that last night, after half time we came out like we had just eat Thanksgiving dinner. They dropped a couple shots and all the sudden they were playing with house money, another trey drops here, we fumble away a bunny there and you look up and that big lead all the sudden in down to 5 and the other teams again has life. Credit this team for stopping it once the lead got down to 5 and a lot of that was JWit putting a end to the slide, kid played his butt off!

Look at the box score, what jumps out to me is the bench scoring, we lost that by a ton. They got 28pts and 9 boards from their bench, everyone off their bench scored and everyone off their bench got at least 1 board. Our bench produced 17pts and 14 boards but JWit himself had 15pts and 10 of those boards. Credit Seth with yet again very strong defense, fact is guys may score on Seth but if they do tip your hat because it will not be easy. JWash got 4mins, I get Wit was having a great game but 4mins for JWash has me scratching my head? Ryan shot well in that first half but after that half he scored what, 5 and missed more than he made in that second half? Kid is a streaky shooter more so than a pure shooter. Ingram, while still solid defensively his shooting has become a struggle.

We had 3guys and all deserve the game ball, have already spoke to JWits 15pts and 10 boards double double. HIs play has just got really noticeably better each game for the last 5 games and last night he played like a starter. Nice story line, he did this vs his old team but don't let that drown out what we got from Bacot and RJ. Bacot scored 19, looked like the could have scored 40 had he wanted to, 7 boards, check this out 5 ASSISTS and 3 blocks! You read that right, Bacot with 5 assists, 2 more than Cadeau, 3 more than Ryan! And RJ, 6-12 for 50% from the field and 21pts, 6 boards, 5 assists, and I think he cleaned up the floor after the game? LOL

Tell you another thing that jumps off the page to me in this box score, we made 29 shots last night and 19 of them were assisted!!! And we missed a boat load of bunnies that would have added to that! You get 50% of your made shots off assists and your coach is happy, 19 assist off 29 shots is seriously good! The other really nice stat, we snagged 40 boards to their 28, you win when that happens.

First time this season, I think it is, we got in to a position to learn a really valuable lesson, when you have a big lead and it dwindles away do you fold or stand back up, this team stood back up and said OK, enough, we are done playing with our food. You just have to know Hubert is going to pound this in tape review, to show them why you let that lead dwindle but as well show them that is what you do to respond to the challenge and they learn that in a 16pt win. So this team passes yet another test and remains undefeated in the ACC, been a while since we were 6-0 to start ACC play. For me way more to be happy about than disappointed in and good teaching points to get us ready for the rest of this season! Now lets go to BC and stack another win!

 

[DSouthr]

This is another lesson for the team and lots of film for Coach to use in the film room and practices. Here is the difference between this year and last year for me: last year, I would have been on the verge of a stroke as I watched the lead dwindle away and watched dumb play after dumb play. I would have fully expected us to lose and we often did. This year, I had confidence that we were going to buckle down and not let an inferior team come all the way back. And sure enough, they did. Defense (Trimble) picked up, Withers showed us why Hubert has been playing him, and we closed them out going away.

Totally agree, l there was never a point in this game that I felt we could lose this one, zero nerves on that front and the team seemed to play that way as well, maybe to much at times in that second half LOL. Last season, a game like this one I would have been bouncing off the walls, this would have been a 1 score win (and we may not have won) rather than this 16pt win. But it got down to a 5pt lead and all the sudden our Heels just seemed to flip the switch back to solid intensity and pulled away.

 

[TarHeelMark]

After that nice start, to me it looked like the Heels started rushing things a bit; probably hoping that the Cards would roll over like the 'Cuse did. And who could blame them? But give some credit to Louisville for not giving up.

When the lead was cut to five, I feel like last year's team MIGHT have still won but it would've been a nail-biter most likely. This year's squad was able to put together a nice run to push it back to double-digits and maintain it, so you gotta love that they toughened up on D and on the glass (outrebounded the Cards 15-3 to close the game).

Altogether it wasn't pretty at times, but we got the W and Hubert gets some valuable teaching moments from a game like this.

 

[TarHeelMark]

I figured Withers would step up vs his old team, and he certainly did --- best game as a Heel

Coach Davis will be happy on way Withers played

Great to see Withers having a big one

Jaelyn played his best game as a Tar Heel

Withers showed us why Hubert has been playing him

JWit putting a end to the slide, kid played his butt off

Withers really, REALLY wanted to beat his old team, didn't he? Dude played a great game. In fact, he stayed in for the last 13+ minutes as he was providing a lot of goodness last night. (other than that 200 mph pass into Mando's chest... LOL, not sure what that was all about).

I sure hope he can continue playing to his strengths and contributing like that the rest of the way.

 

[gary-7]

This is another lesson for the team and lots of film for Coach to use in the film room and practices. Here is the difference between this year and last year for me: last year, I would have been on the verge of a stroke as I watched the lead dwindle away and watched dumb play after dumb play. I would have fully expected us to lose and we often did. This year, I had confidence that we were going to buckle down and not let an inferior team come all the way back. And sure enough, they did. Defense (Trimble) picked up, Withers showed us why Hubert has been playing him, and we closed them out going away.

I find it telling that several folks ITT point to last season's team likely losing this one, and I couldn't agree more --- defintiely a positive aspect of this version.

 

[Geth]

Game was never in question - even when it was "close". It was a matter of us getting sloppy, lazy and as a result cold against a poor side while they found their shot whilst simultaneously upping their intensity. It wore off and - again, the sky was never in real danger of falling.

When you don't go 80+% from the field, 95+% from the line and 66+% from 3 and can't keep the opposing team under 25% shooting and turn the ball over more than twice- this team with this coach will be rife for criticism.

 

[r_u_worthy]

I'll echo some of you guys' comments about never feeling nervous about how this would play out. You never see the players look rattled and they mimic the staff. All that, gives the fans confidence too; or at least this one!! These guys have been around the block and they act the part of a talented, dynamic and experienced team. Really can't wait to see them hitting on all cylinders for a full 40 min. Maybe in early February???

 

[Bubspub88]

First time this season, I think it is, we got in to a position to learn a really valuable lesson, when you have a big lead and it dwindles away do you fold or stand back up, this team stood back up and said OK, enough, we are done playing with our food. You just have to know Hubert is going to pound this in tape review, to show them why you let that lead dwindle but as well show them that is what you do to respond to the challenge and they learn that in a 16pt win. So this team passes yet another test and remains undefeated in the ACC, been a while since we were 6-0 to start ACC play. For me way more to be happy about than disappointed in and good teaching points to get us ready for the rest of this season! Now lets go to BC and stack another win!

What scares me is that similar thing happened against Tenn. Fortunate to have won both those games but you cannot let a 20 point lead get wiped away, especially at home. I get that keeping that intensity for 40 minutes is tough that is where you see the difference in teams playing into late march and those going home after first weekend. I was hoping to see sub in 4 or even 5 guys after the first two minutes of second half to remind guys that either you play with max effort or you get a real good seat to watch others do it.

 

[Geth]

I've been watching Carolina Basketball closely for 40 odd years- I honestly think since the age of 15- I do not recall a team in the last decade that was as unselfish- and at times, too unselfish as this one. I will not criticize- but I'd say all night and the last few games i was telling my co couch commentator of the last 32 years (wife- mom of kid- UNC grad- craft beer lover- hates rom coms: keeper) that one factor that will add an additional 10+ points to this teams output every night would be the factor of EC driving the hole more often- and actually shooting vs. passing. Teams expect him to pass- they sag off of him as a result- I've seen more from him the last several games and i think he's starting to get there.

I just can't comment on all the negatives- all the "why didn't Hubert... why did Hubert..." been around too long to take this stuff too seriously and just happy to be at a point where I legit look forward to UNC basketball games again- last few seasons have felt like a chore- it's to the point that I don't even grouse (much) about staying up to 11.

This team is special- there will be a game soon where it will click and the post match thread will be crickets as all the folks so conditioned and itching to slag this team and this coach off won't have anything to say.

 

[gary-7]

I've been watching Carolina Basketball closely for 40 odd years- I honestly think since the age of 15- I do not recall a team in the last decade that was as unselfish- and at times, too unselfish as this one. I will not criticize- but I'd say all night and the last few games i was telling my co couch commentator of the last 32 years (wife- mom of kid- UNC grad- craft beer lover- hates rom coms: keeper) that one factor that will add an additional 10+ points to this teams output every night would be the factor of EC driving the hole more often- and actually shooting vs. passing. Teams expect him to pass- they sag off of him as a result- I've seen more from him the last several games and i think he's starting to get there.

I just can't comment on all the negatives- all the "why didn't Hubert... why did Hubert..." been around too long to take this stuff too seriously and just happy to be at a point where I legit look forward to UNC basketball games again- last few seasons have felt like a chore- it's to the point that I don't even grouse (much) about staying up to 11.

This team is special- there will be a game soon where it will click and the post match thread will be crickets as all the folks so conditioned and itching to slag this team and this coach off won't have anything to say.

I'll use this reply to quickly address some of what I read as to the use-it-or-lose-it timeout before the half. Unless we're comng down with a good transition flow, I absolutely agree with Hubert taking the TO there.

BUT... if EC happens to be out of the game, then he 100% needs to be reinserted for that final play. He is the one guy we know can create a good look for someone or himself, even if the initial play gets defended. When we neglected to put him in last night I literally said to my buddy "welp, here comes another last-second heave"... and sure enogh.

 

[Rabidfrog]

So we were all various degrees of worried about HD taking the job with 0 head coaching experience.
Some/most worried he would not learn fast enough and could get us stuck in mediocrity.
Give him 4-5 years to really figure out his grove was my thought - and hope it worked out

First season ending made for hope.

Last season made for despair.
This season I feel like he has proven he can learn, adapt and grow. I don’t know how this season ends. I know we will still have some ups and downs as HD learns on the job. But if this is merely his upswing (and by all accounts, it is - head coach for only 2 1/2 years so far) - I can’t wait to have him as the coach in five years.

 

[tcb22]

When a team shows evidence of learning things in practice and using them in games it is evidence of good coaching. Hubert called the team out publicly after the UConn and Kentucky games for not rebounding and not playing good defense. Now today they are being recognized for defense and rebounding! Looks like some coaching and players buying in happened! Way to go Hubert and staff!

 

[gary-7]

So we were all various degrees of worried about HD taking the job with 0 head coaching experience.
Some/most worried he would not learn fast enough and could get us stuck in mediocrity.
Give him 4-5 years to really figure out his grove was my thought - and hope it worked out

First season ending made for hope.

Last season made for despair.
This season I feel like he has proven he can learn, adapt and grow. I don’t know how this season ends. I know we will still have some ups and downs as HD learns on the job. But if this is merely his upswing (and by all accounts, it is - head coach for only 2 1/2 years so far) - I can’t wait to have him as the coach in five years.

Well, for the record, I wasn't worried in the least when Hubert got the job (and even less so once he put together his staff). Granted, last season's performance made me wonder if having to scheme around our personnel limitations was something that was knocking them off the rails, BUT... as I hoped, the staff had an internal "come-to-Dean" reset in the off-season and recommitted to Carolina basketball.

One of the practical keys to implementing that (as we are seeing) was to restock with more, um... compatible personnel. That was necessarily capped off by bringing in an elite PG... and from here, as I've said before, the key to taking the next step is to put the team in our young Floor General's hands for 30+ minutes/game.

 

[DSouthr]

So we were all various degrees of worried about HD taking the job with 0 head coaching experience.
Some/most worried he would not learn fast enough and could get us stuck in mediocrity.
Give him 4-5 years to really figure out his grove was my thought - and hope it worked out

First season ending made for hope.

Last season made for despair.
This season I feel like he has proven he can learn, adapt and grow. I don’t know how this season ends. I know we will still have some ups and downs as HD learns on the job. But if this is merely his upswing (and by all accounts, it is - head coach for only 2 1/2 years so far) - I can’t wait to have him as the coach in five years.

To be honest and I invite anyone to go back and see for themselves, while Hubert was not my first choice (King Rice was my choice) I was not on the Wes bandwagon. I was perfectly fine with Hubert, I knew we were getting a good man, yet to be seen was if we were getting a great coach. Liked his off season moves that first season, he came so close to being able to keep Kessler, man I wish he had been able to. But he did get the big splash portal guy in Garcia, to bad that didn't work out but he saw talent in Manek and as much as having no other choice Manek blossomed in to a great decision for Hubert. That regular season sucked until late but we caught a hot streak beating duke and rode it all the way to half time of the national title game. But don't forget how bad that season was until we caught that heater string of games. Last season, totally off the rails, looked much like most of the regular season did that prior season but the coaching decisions made zero sense, it was bad.

I know after last season Hubert had some tough candid meeting with the AD, I highly suspect Hubert spent a lot of quality time talking to not only Roy but other coaches, in short I think Hubert learned more than he expected, he matured and I see a lot of payoff from that right now. I see him correct a huge problem by now using his bench deep which allows that bench to develop for you, they don't play they don't develop, look at Withers as an example right now, look at Seth as another. I may not agree with his every decision, you do not make everyone happy all of the time but I now again do believe we have the coach we need to have.

As a curious aside, ever contemplated what may have happened had we not beat duke in that last game at Cameron for K? We didn't win that ACCT, it isn't certain we would have made that NCAA tourney either. Would Hubert have been able to make it thru back to back seasons of not going to the NCAAT? Or, maybe Hubert makes big changes last season and we not see the humiliations of how last season ended up? May be a interesting rabbit hole to explore.

 

[Bubspub88]

as I've said before, the key to taking the next step is to put the team in our young Floor General's hands for 30+ minutes/game.

Right now I don’t know if EC can stay on the court for 30 minutes. Plus his ft shooting could be a liability on. 1 or 2 possession game with under a couple of minutes left. I was hoping those questions would be answered in November but no such luck.

 

[gary-7]

Right now I don’t know if EC can stay on the court for 30 minutes. Plus his ft shooting could be a liability on. 1 or 2 possession game with under a couple of minutes left. I was hoping those questions would be answered in November but no such luck.

Recent games should have shown that he certainly can stay on the floor. Absent foul trouble we need to break the habit of subbing him out at the first under-16, which disrupts our continuity and rhythm. His FT shooting will round itself out. It was never an issue before he got here --- he just needs game repetition, routine and the accompanying confidence.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

If we say Hubs has to use his bench and then say but don't take out EC, this leaves only RJ to take out. RJ is our most consistent scorer by far and his leadership must be on the court. EC gets us to play faster, and RJ keeps us in games-I think I would err toward leadership too. I get that EC makes the engine rev up to 5000, but who should Seth come in for? (If it isn't RJ then we got tiny)

 

[2DDIMOND]

If we say Hubs has to use his bench and then say but don't take out EC, this leaves only RJ to take out. RJ is our most consistent scorer by far and his leadership must be on the court. EC gets us to play faster, and RJ keeps us in games-I think I would err toward leadership too. I get that EC makes the engine rev up to 5000, but who should Seth come in for? (If it isn't RJ then we got tiny)

IIRC, we were very effective one game with EC, RJ, and Seth on the court together for a long stretch. I don't remember the game, but it was much earlier in the year, maybe Florida St. or one of the non conference games. I've wondered why we haven't seen that lineup much since, since it was so effective.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

It certainly can be effective at times, but not if the opponents have bigger guards. Seth certainly can play bigger than he is + RJ/EC are playing better on ball D-BUT A team could certainly exploit it for some pretty unbalanced rotations!

 

[gary-7]

If we say Hubs has to use his bench and then say but don't take out EC, this leaves only RJ to take out. RJ is our most consistent scorer by far and his leadership must be on the court. EC gets us to play faster, and RJ keeps us in games-I think I would err toward leadership too. I get that EC makes the engine rev up to 5000, but who should Seth come in for? (If it isn't RJ then we got tiny)

No. Just don't pull your starting PG 4 minutes in. That's like pulling a plug wire off a race car on lap 10 at Daytona.

Start alternating subs of EC and RJ around the under-12 so that they each get 15+ per half, which leaves a lot of minutes for bench Guards.

 

[dtodd4475]

Could get to that point with Cadeau minutes, not there yet for me. I actually think Hubert has done a masterful job, easing him in to a comfort level. Personally, I love how he and Trimble are splitting the 40 minutes.

RJ ain't coming out more then 4 minutes or so in a dog fight type game unless fouls or injury dictate. We have a very solid 8 man regular rotation, been very healthy to this point. Fingers crossed to stay healthy enough to continue.