Real popcorn thread...Mueller investigation

[strummingram]

@strummingram and @uncboy10... You bring nothing to the conversation. You're both so triggered by Trump's election, two year past mind you, that you can't put together a coherant argument. Both of you make blanket statements, without any proof, in order to defend your position. This would be fine if you provided any kind of proof when people asked for it, but you both just double down on your poop slinging when you're called out on it. You ask me for proof and I provide it. I ask you for proof and you insult me.

I don't even know WTF you're talking about where I'm concerned. I simply responded to @nctransplant specifically about his comment about his condoning hypocrisy as long as the hypocrite is rich. You decided to butt-in. I told you I wasn't responding to you. You claimed I attacked you because I'm triggered by Trump's election. This is what you're left with by getting kicked off the other boards for constantly trolling.

 

[nctransplant]

Yeah... those are the best hypocrites. Does that excuse his shameless hypocrisy? Having lots of money?

He's probably not sad. I mean he gives away his $400,000 salary every year, do you?

 

[uncboy10]

He's probably not sad. I mean he gives away his $400,000 salary every year, do you?

If we’re playing the charity card, we can’t forget about the fraud he committed with his foundation...

 

[strummingram]

He's probably not sad. I mean he gives away his $400,000 salary every year, do you?

Sooo... ignore the aspects that are dangerous and damaging because he's rich. That's sound reasoning, no doubt about it.

 

[strummingram]

If we’re playing the charity card, we can’t forget about the fraud he committed with his foundation...

Big deal. So what if he's crooked... he's rich. That's more than you can say!

 

[nctransplant]

If we’re playing the charity card, we can’t forget about the fraud he committed with his foundation...

Lock him up, lock him up.......

 

[nctransplant]

Lot of stupid going on here....

I see you got your invitation.

 

[uncboy10]

Lock him up, lock him up.......

I'll settle for him losing the election in 2020.

But let's be real for a second. Using a charity to commit fraud is pretty close to the scummiest thing a person can do.

 

[nctransplant]

I'll settle for him losing the election in 2020.

But let's be real for a second. Using a charity to commit fraud is pretty close to the scummiest thing a person can do.

You better hope he gets locked up because the loons that have the house majority are making 2020 a lock for President Trump.

 

[uncboy10]

You better hope he gets locked up because the loons that have the house majority are making 2020 a lock for President Trump.

Nah.

Incumbents are always at an advantage, and it's certainly true that there are bad candidates currently running for the democratic nomination, but there are also several candidates who could beat him.

Blaming immigrants for everything is only going to take him so far. People may be gullible, but they have limits.

 

[nctransplant]

Nah.

Incumbents are always at an advantage, and it's certainly true that there are bad candidates currently running for the democratic nomination, but there are also several candidates who could beat him.

Blaming immigrants for everything is only going to take him so far. People may be gullible, but they have limits.

Best hope is 2024

 

[uncboy10]

Best hope is 2024

We'll see. If the dems nominate Biden then you're probably right.

 

[strummingram]

People may be gullible, but they have limits.

They do???

 

[uncboy10]

They do???

Well... maybe some of them do.

 

[nctransplant]

We'll see. If the dems nominate Biden then you're probably right.

Your man Bernie can't win either. No one on the dim side can win the rust belt and middle America. People here are smarter than believing they can get everything for free.

 

[uncboy10]

Your man Bernie can't win either. No one on the dim side can win the rust belt and middle America. People here are smarter than believing they can get everything for free.

Bernie consistently polled very well against trump. Much better than Hillary who basically lost by something like 80K votes across a handful of districts. People in the rust belt like Bernie because he supports workers rights and healthcare reform. It’s not about giving people “free stuff.” That’s a stupid right wing talking point. He advocates for tax dollars actually benefitting the people who pay them. Your analysis was poor and extremely biased by your political ideology.

Working class people have supported him and donated to his campaign in droves. They will likely continue to do so regardless of right wing smear tactics.

I get it. You have a different view of what government should do. That’s fine. But misrepresenting the views of those who disagree with you just makes you look bad. We understand that taxes pay for his proposals. And we continue to advocate for them.

 

[nctransplant]

Bernie consistently polled very well against trump. Much better than Hillary who basically lost by something like 80K votes across a handful of districts. People in the rust belt like Bernie because he supports workers rights and healthcare reform. It’s not about giving people “free stuff.” That’s a stupid right wing talking point. He advocates for tax dollars actually benefitting the people who pay them. Your analysis was poor and extremely biased by your political ideology.

Working class people have supported him and donated to his campaign in droves. They will likely continue to do so regardless of right wing smear tactics.

I get it. You have a different view of what government should do. That’s fine. But misrepresenting the views of those who disagree with you just makes you look bad. We understand that taxes pay for his proposals. And we continue to advocate for them.

And he's too old, too white and too male for the left.

 

[strummingram]

It might be helpful to characterize programs as not being "free." That's not a correct statement.

 

[uncboy10]

And he's too old, too white and too male for the left.

Yet he manages to raise more money than any other candidate from “the left.” I love it when conservatives try to tell the other side what they think and who their heroes are. Even the super “woke” crowd would be happy to vote for Bernie over trump. He has the most impressive civil rights record of any politician in our government.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Bernie consistently polled very well against trump. Much better than Hillary who basically lost by something like 80K votes across a handful of districts. People in the rust belt like Bernie because he supports workers rights and healthcare reform. It’s not about giving people “free stuff.” That’s a stupid right wing talking point. He advocates for tax dollars actually benefitting the people who pay them. Your analysis was poor and extremely biased by your political ideology.

Working class people have supported him and donated to his campaign in droves. They will likely continue to do so regardless of right wing smear tactics.

I get it. You have a different view of what government should do. That’s fine. But misrepresenting the views of those who disagree with you just makes you look bad. We understand that taxes pay for his proposals. And we continue to advocate for them.

I think Bernie could have beat him in 2016. I don't think he has a chance in 2020. I'm not saying that none of the Dems could beat the Teflon Don, but it isn't going to be Bernie or Biden. Plus Bernie already burnt the bridge to his constituents when he sold out to Hillary. He's a solialist with four houses. How does that happen? The guy is a con artist.

 

[uncboy10]

I think Bernie could have beat him in 2016. I don't think he has a chance in 2020. I'm not saying that none of the Dems could beat the Teflon Don, but it isn't going to be Bernie or Biden. Plus Bernie already burnt the bridge to his constituents when he sold out to Hillary. He's a solialist with four houses. How does that happen? The guy is a con artist.

Another word that you clearly don’t know the meaning of. Let me know when Bernie starts advocating for workers to revolt and seize the means and modes of production. He’s a social democrat which is sometimes referred to as democratic socialist. It’s nothing like socialism as defined by Marx or any of the classic socialist philosophers. Anyone who has taken political science 101 knows that.

 

[tarheel0910]

I think the dems are going to make the mistake of nominating a candidate that satisfies the left wing instead of one that can win. For whatever reason, they can't get the message that a candidate needs to appeal to the middle. They already have the vote of the left, they don't need to chase it.

 

[toophly1124]

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Another word that you clearly don’t know the meaning of. Let me know when Bernie starts advocating for workers to revolt and seize the means and modes of production. He’s a social democrat which is sometimes referred to as democratic socialist. It’s nothing like socialism as defined by Marx or any of the classic socialist philosophers. Anyone who has taken political science 101 knows that.

You can call him whatever you want. He's as big of a hypocrite as Donald Trump.

 

[uncboy10]

You can call him whatever you want. He's as big of a hypocrite as Donald Trump.

That’s a load of horseshit.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

That’s a load of horseshit.

Good retort. Do you mind if I borrow that one sometime?

 

[nctransplant]

That’s a load of horseshit.

Yes Bernie is a load of horseshit. When has the government spent tax money as it should be done? And your boy just wants more of it. If you want taxes spent appropriately my 95 year old grandmother should run the government. Waste would be a thing of the past.

 

[uncboy10]

Yes Bernie is a load of horseshit. When has the government spent tax money as it should be done? And your boy just wants more of it. If you want taxes spent appropriately my 95 year old grandmother should run the government. Waste would be a thing of the past.

Private firms have waste too. Nobody spends money with perfect efficiency. The government does a pretty good job at building roads, bridges, schools, and a military, just for starters. Are you going to argue that the military or police should be privatized?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Private firms have waste too. Nobody spends money with perfect efficiency. The government does a pretty good job at building roads, bridges, schools, and a military, just for starters. Are you going to argue that the military or police should be privatized?

The issue is that private firms with too much waste generally go out of business unless they are bailed out. There is no such incentive for the public sector. Therefore, you can't claim they are the same.

 

[uncboy10]

The issue is that private firms with too much waste generally go out of business unless they are bailed out. There is no such incentive for the public sector. Therefore, you can't claim they are the same.

If representatives in government create too much waste then they get voted out of office. Rational choice theory applies to politics too. That’s why there’s an entire field called political economics. Nice try though.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

If representatives in government create too much waste then they get voted out of office. Rational choice theory applies to politics too. That’s why there’s an entire field called political economics. Nice try though.

That’s a load of horseshit.

 

[uncboy10]

That’s a load of horseshit.

You’re terrible at this. No wonder you get ran off of boards so often.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

You’re terrible at this. No wonder you get ran off of boards so often.

You might be the most uptight poster I've ever seen.You seriously need to relax.

The problem with your last point is still the fact that people not held responsible for their mistakes are more likely to make them. That's just a fact. Besides, I only have access to voting for four politicians...out of 536.

 

[uncboy10]

You might be the most uptight poster I've ever seen.You seriously need to relax.

The problem with your last point is still the fact that people not held responsible for their mistakes are more likely to make them. That's just a fact. Besides, I only have access to voting for four politicians...out of 536.

I’m not uptight at all. Maybe you’re just projecting. You should know by now that I don’t take you very seriously. You’re like the sparring partner that the black belts beat up on to practice their finishing.

Politicians are absolutely held responsible for their mistakes so long as voters are well informed and have access to legitimate choices. That’s why we have elections, sporty spice.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I’m not uptight at all. Maybe you’re just projecting. You should know by now that I don’t take you very seriously. You’re like the sparring partner that the black belts beat up on to practice their finishing.

Politicians are absolutely held responsible for their mistakes so long as voters are well informed and have access to legitimate choices. That’s why we have elections, sporty spice.

Again, that doesn't change the fact that you have an organization gambling with other peoples' money. Obviously, they aren't going to be as safe as if they were gambling with their own money.

 

[uncboy10]

Again, that doesn't change the fact that you have an organization gambling with other peoples' money. Obviously, they aren't going to be as safe as if they were gambling with their own money.

If you think this is gambling then you have zero clue about basic economics. Government has a lot more checks on spending than a private firm does. I assure you every dollar in the budget is carefully accounted for. A lot of the inefficiency arises from our campaign finance system which created different incentives for politicians aside from just vote maximization.

 

[nctransplant]

Private firms have waste too. Nobody spends money with perfect efficiency. The government does a pretty good job at building roads, bridges, schools, and a military, just for starters. Are you going to argue that the military or police should be privatized?

I will argue that they don't use money efficiently. Nor does the builders of roads, bridges, schools. Plus the gov doesn't build those. They hire it out.

 

[nctransplant]

If representatives in government create too much waste then they get voted out of office. Rational choice theory applies to politics too. That’s why there’s an entire field called political economics. Nice try though.

No hell they aren't. That's why we need term limits. They promise but don't get voted out.

 

[nctransplant]

Government has a lot more checks on spending than a private firm does. .

This statement is laughable. And maybe your worst but it's close.

 

[uncboy10]

I will argue that they don't use money efficiently. Nor does the builders of roads, bridges, schools. Plus the gov doesn't build those. They hire it out.

Government still pays for it. Contracting it out doesn’t change who cuts the checks. Firms also use money inefficiently.

No hell they aren't. That's why we need term limits. They promise but don't get voted out.

I agree that incumbents are way too safe. My point was simply that there is still some accountability. If they do a bad enough job then they can get voted out. With a few tweaks to our system we could make that more likely. Namely campaign finance reform and ending gerrymandering. Note that these are issues that both sides won’t actually take action on because it hurts incumbents. Those things (and term limits) are not partisan issues.

Term limits is an interesting idea. I think I mostly support them though there is a case to be made that it creates perverse incentives. For example, if I know I only have eight years in office then I’m not worried about my constituents in the second term. I’m gonna be more likely to hook up the corporation that will give me a fat check for a BS job after I leave office. Term limits address some issues but not all of them.

This is a complex issue with many variables. Anyone who thinks they have the answer and can distill it down to a single sentence like “government is inefficient” probably doesn’t have a clue what they’re talking about. Sometimes government is more efficient, sometimes a market based solution is more efficient. Neither is the answer all of the time. Some mix of both is the ideal equilibrium.