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Roy's Health....Next Coach

GoNtheDistance

GoNtheDistance

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Oct 3, 2003
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glad Roy seems to be OK after the incident last night at BC. But one has to wonder, how many more years do we have Roy for? His health seems to be getting worse, and not just the vertigo. His knees are ailing, he's battled some foot and hip issues. Even had the issue with his arm/elbow a few years back. Generally speaking, it looks like Roy is on his last leg physically. The man has worked his tail off for many many years and he seems to have aged about 10 years in the last 3 years it seems by appearance.

Realistically, I think we have Roy for another 2-3 years after this season max. There will come a time where Roy simply can't continue at the pace he's been going and be effective. Knowing the competitor that Roy Williams is, I don't see him being the kind to selfishly stick around when he's not able to give effort that meets his expectations as a coach. So that brings to me to the question for discussion only, not because I want Roy to retire or shut it down. I hope he coaches as long as he's able to make an impact on his terms. But who's our next coach? I personally do not think anybody in the current UNC coaching tree is ready, or there are some others that simply aren't a good fit but others may feel differently. I think if we are smart we look outside the UNC family and pick off a big name. Some to consider:

Jay Wright-Villanova (he has always intrigued me and gets the most out of the kids he has; I think he'd be a gem with our type of talent every year)
Brad Stevens-Celtics (same as above; big time tactician; great basketball mind)
Shaka Smart-Texas (popular coach among his players, trending a few years back as the top pick for about any power 5 school looking for a new coach; is he that good or just rode a nice mid major wave before landing the texas job?)
Tom Izzo-Michigan State (probably the most proven coach of the bunch; tough tough tough; his teams ALWAYS produce when the big lights come on in March-April; would he leave MSU to come to UNC for the last part of his career?)
Sean Miller-Arizona (I lump him in the same category as Jay Wright; big time coach that is intriguing)
 
That vertigo seems to get worse every year. I still think he has plenty of years left in him. Also depends on if the program wins another title. Might want to go out on top. As for next coach, all pure speculation right now. UNC is more than a little arrogant in this department and will go with someone in the Carolina family. Not sure there is anyone qualified and obviously it has proven to be disasterous in the past. I would prefer a younger guy who can be here for 20 years, but that's just me.
 
GoNtheDistance said:
glad Roy seems to be OK after the incident last night at BC. But one has to wonder, how many more years do we have Roy for? His health seems to be getting worse, and not just the vertigo. His knees are ailing, he's battled some foot and hip issues. Even had the issue with his arm/elbow a few years back. Generally speaking, it looks like Roy is on his last leg physically. The man has worked his tail off for many many years and he seems to have aged about 10 years in the last 3 years it seems by appearance.

Realistically, I think we have Roy for another 2-3 years after this season max. There will come a time where Roy simply can't continue at the pace he's been going and be effective. Knowing the competitor that Roy Williams is, I don't see him being the kind to selfishly stick around when he's not able to give effort that meets his expectations as a coach. So that brings to me to the question for discussion only, not because I want Roy to retire or shut it down. I hope he coaches as long as he's able to make an impact on his terms. But who's our next coach? I personally do not think anybody in the current UNC coaching tree is ready, or there are some others that simply aren't a good fit but others may feel differently. I think if we are smart we look outside the UNC family and pick off a big name. Some to consider:

Jay Wright-Villanova (he has always intrigued me and gets the most out of the kids he has; I think he'd be a gem with our type of talent every year)
Brad Stevens-Celtics (same as above; big time tactician; great basketball mind)
Shaka Smart-Texas (popular coach among his players, trending a few years back as the top pick for about any power 5 school looking for a new coach; is he that good or just rode a nice mid major wave before landing the texas job?)
Tom Izzo-Michigan State (probably the most proven coach of the bunch; tough tough tough; his teams ALWAYS produce when the big lights come on in March-April; would he leave MSU to come to UNC for the last part of his career?)
Sean Miller-Arizona (I lump him in the same category as Jay Wright; big time coach that is intriguing)
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SMDH. I knew this garbage would be coming.
First, I don't think Roy wants or needs you or anyone else putting a time-table on his retirement.
Second, how in the hell can any Carolina fan be suggesting a coach from outside the Carolina system?
 
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I would agree that there is no one in the current UNC tree that would be ready today, however in a few more years I think there will be. As far as the coaches that you mentioned I don't see any of them leaving their current team.
 
I want Roy to stick around for as long as he is the best person for the job. Once that is not longer the case, I (and I believe even Roy himself) would say it's in the best interest of UNC basketball to get the person who is best for the job. Would it be nice to get someone from "inside the family"? Yes, sure. Is that more important than getting the best coach available? No.

If there are two equal candidates for the job, and one has a tie to Roy or to UNC - then sure, give him the job. But if the best candidate doesn't have a UNC connection, say Brad Stevens, or one of the other names listed, then give them the job. I'll second what SeaHawk said - when the time comes, I'd prefer the next coach be someone we can have for 20+ years, not an older stop-gap coach. I'm not saying Hubert shouldn't be considered, I just don't know what he has done to show he deserves a head coaching gig at a blue blood school - if there's something I'm missing, please correct me.
 
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I gotta believe that Bubba would would easily be willing to go outside the UNC family in a heartbeat.
Davis has no head coaching experience. Too big a risk IMO . .
Jerrod Haase is the only 'family' member that might be given an opportunity.
For what it is worth, I think UNC's next coach is going to be Shaka Smart. Sean Miller is a possibility if he's interested . .

jmho
 
Hubert Davis didn't have ANY coaching experience at all until 2012 when he came on board with the Heels!

How can anyone justify him being named coach of the best program in the country!

I just don't understand that at all.
 
I hope (believe?) Roy will have a very big say in who the next coach is at UNC. He deserves that power / authority, with what he has given The Program over his life.

Not saying this means it HAS to be in the UNC family, but I'd guess, if outside, it'd be someone Roy knows and respects a ton (like Turgeon - but I'm not saying Turgeon would be a great fit).
 
I think Haase is more ready than Hubert. Hubert has NO HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE (unless you count UNC JV). But is Haase considered Carolina "Family?" You look at the options: Wes @ UNCG, Lebo @ ECU, Larry @ SMU :eek:, Frasor @ Brother Rice HS, King @ Monmouth, Karl in SAC. I think that's it. I really don't like any of those options...AT THIS POINT. That can change before Roy is done. My dream would be Stevens or Izzo if they went outside the "Family." I just can't see Izzo leaving as old as he is. Stevens would be awesome!
 
This choice might not be popular because of his alma mater but Archie Miller of Dayton and the brother of Sean Miller would be worth a look. His teams always play well in March and score some big wins. I don't know about his recruiting, but the guy can coach. Go to You Tube and search for some of his coaching clinic videos.
 
notashelbyfan said:
I might catch flack for this but what are everyone else's thoughts on Bruce Pearl
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You have got to be kidding. With that logic why not kelvin sampson? Pearl has never won big anywhere and nothing but trouble. We have not fallen off that much. If we have to go with a bruce pearl our program is in deep shit
 
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Tom79 said:
IMO, he may well already be on the bench. :cool:
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He better not be on the bench. At UNC, you hire experienced and proven head coaches. My list would consist of Brad Stevens, Archie Miller, Shaka Smart, Jay Wright and Sean Miller. They absolutely have to look outside the family because nobody within is ready and we saw how that worked with Doherty.
 
SeaHawk98 said:
That vertigo seems to get worse every year. I still think he has plenty of years left in him. Also depends on if the program wins another title. Might want to go out on top. As for next coach, all pure speculation right now. UNC is more than a little arrogant in this department and will go with someone in the Carolina family. Not sure there is anyone qualified and obviously it has proven to be disasterous in the past. I would prefer a younger guy who can be here for 20 years, but that's just me.
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C'mon. Doherty is a pretty small sample space... and that was a consolation choice. And honestly he never ran a true Carolina system. Gut and Roy have certainly been more than OK :rolleyes:.
And "arrogant" is not the word I would use for staying in the family. There are some fine coaches out there but what we know as Carolina basketball begins with Dean Smith --- it is a system and a way of doing things that goes far beyond winning. Roy was the right person to carry on that legacy because he embraces and practices that system and way of doing things, and whoever the next coach is needs to not only have been part of it but needs to fully embrace Dean's coaching legacy. Doherty never did.
Hell, I'll go further back. For a time many thought Eddie Fogler would be Dean's heir apparent. When Eddie went out on his own he was a good coach and all, but it just wasn't Carolina basketball. Roy on the other hand went to KU and was running the system like clockwork, and it quickly became apparent that he was Dean's choice, and should have been. And I'll tell ya, if Roy hadn't come back Phil Ford should have been choice 1A.
I'm hoping Hubert, having played for Dean and now coaching with Roy, embraces the system.
 
gary-7 said:
SMDH. I knew this garbage would be coming.
First, I don't think Roy wants or needs you or anyone else putting a time-table on his retirement.
Second, how in the hell can any Carolina fan be suggesting a coach from outside the Carolina system?
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I'd take Brad Stevens in a heartbeat, but he's killing it in the NBA right now and I don't see why he would leave for Carolina. I've always been concerned he'd end up at Dook, so I like seeing him do well in Boston. Otherwise, there is no one outside of "the family" I necessarily crave as an eventual replacement. In the family, I'd like to see how Jerod Haase progresses at UAB over the next few years. Unfortunately there is no one out there who is both in the family and young with the same kind of head-coaching experience Roy had at Kansas before coming back home, which leaves recruiting ability totally up in the air. In any event, I'm on Team Roy until Roy's ready to move on though, so this is all just fun talk.
 
heels05champs said:
He better not be on the bench. At UNC, you hire experienced and proven head coaches. My list would consist of Brad Stevens, Archie Miller, Shaka Smart, Jay Wright and Sean Miller. They absolutely have to look outside the family because nobody within is ready and we saw how that worked with Doherty.
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Really? Roy went to KU with no HC experience and killed it....

Go outside the family and you'll have guys running around in Carolina uniforms, but it will cease to be Carolina basketball.
 
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gary-7 said:
Really? Roy went to KU with no HC experience and killed it....

Go outside the family and you'll have guys running around in Carolina uniforms, but it will cease to be Carolina basketball.
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Not true... Was Dean a Carolina guy when he was hired? Worked out pretty well didn't it? Again, this better not stay in the family for the sake of hiring a Carolina guy. That's a ridiculous concept. The best available better be hired or it'll be a disservice to program, players and fans.
 
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gary-7 said:
Go outside the family and you'll have guys running around in Carolina uniforms, but it will cease to be Carolina basketball.
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gary-7 said:
C'mon. Doherty is a pretty small sample space... and that was a consolation choice. And honestly he never ran a true Carolina system. Gut and Roy have certainly been more than OK :rolleyes:.
And "arrogant" is not the word I would use for staying in the family. There are some fine coaches out there but what we know as Carolina basketball begins with Dean Smith --- it is a system and a way of doing things that goes far beyond winning. Roy was the right person to carry on that legacy because he embraces and practices that system and way of doing things, and whoever the next coach is needs to not only have been part of it but needs to fully embrace Dean's coaching legacy. Doherty never did.
Hell, I'll go further back. For a time many thought Eddie Fogler would be Dean's heir apparent. When Eddie went out on his own he was a good coach and all, but it just wasn't Carolina basketball. Roy on the other hand went to KU and was running the system like clockwork, and it quickly became apparent that he was Dean's choice, and should have been. And I'll tell ya, if Roy hadn't come back Phil Ford should have been choice 1A.
I'm hoping Hubert, having played for Dean and now coaching with Roy, embraces the system.
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Gary,

Phil had too much baggage to be considered as an option to UNC.
 
heels05champs said:
Not true... Was Dean a Carolina guy when he was hired? Worked out pretty well didn't it? Again, this better not stay in the family for the sake of hiring a Carolina guy. That's a ridiculous concept. The best available better be hired or it'll be a disservice to program, players and fans.
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Unless I'm mistaken, he was an assistant under McGuire when he was at UNC..
 
Gary, I encourage you to go read my original post. Nobody is putting a timetable on Roy's retirement, but given his recent health issues, one has to wonder when he will hang it up. As stated in the original post, I hope he coaches as long as he's able and we are lucky to have him. Starting with your original post calling the thread garbage for putting a timetable on Roy's retirement and then your continued attempts to hijack the thread are ridiculous. I encourage you to actually read what the thread is about. If you can't engage in good dialogue then refrain from posting and hijacking the thread with garbage.

Back to the actual discussion. I think we all agree that if there's a coach that is a good fit and equally as qualified as some of those listed/mentioned, then by all means, heir on the side of staying within. However, ror those that are hell bent on hiring from within no matter what, Did Dean Smith go to Carolina and start his career at Carolina? NO. He went to Kansas and coached baseball and golf at Air Force before joining Frank McGuire at UNC as an assistant in 58. What about Frank McGuire? also a NO. He went to St John's and started his career there as well with the johnnies. Roy was a UNC grad and started his career at UNC. That has worked out great for us coming from the family tree, but I think we'd argue that Dean wasn't too shabby either. Matt Doherty came from the family tree, and I think we'd all like to forget about that stint. He was a perfect example of UNC choosing to stay within the family simply for the sake of staying within the family and it killed us. He was an unproven coach without sustained success at a big time program. Bottom line, who are we going to hire that will be ready in 3-5 years hypothetically? Hubert Davis? No way. Love Hube but he just got into coaching a few years ago. George Karl? Larry Brown? Buzz Peterson? Jerod Haase? Wes Miller? I don't think any of those guys make the cut. I think we all can agree that we can't get the next hire wrong. As the competition gap has narrowed in college basketball over the last 10-15 years, a bad hire would set us back considerably.
 
Personally, I don't see Izzo leaving MSU. I think he would be highly flattered by UNC and would consider it, but I think at his age, why would he leave somewhere where no matter what happens moving forward, he is a legend and will be remembered as such. For shits and giggles, I'd go after the following, in this order:

1. Brad Stevens (the good thing about Brad is I think it'd be a quick yes or no; he will either go all in and be our coach for the next 20+ years and likely end up on the heels of Dean as the winningest coach in our history or he'll stay put in the NBA for the big bucks. my gut says he'd come back to the college game in a heart beat for the right price. NBA coaching success isn't sustainable in my opinion with a few exceptions (specifically Pop in San Antonio))
2. Shaka Smart (personally, I don't know if he's a great coach. he did really well at VCU and put them on the map but will he have similar success at a big time program and be able to sustain it? His stint at Texas will tell us a lot about Shaka and his ability because it shouldn't be hard to get big time talent to campus at Texas. If he wins big at Texas then he'll continue to be HOT commodity for any of the top 5 historical programs. He's also a "cool" pick for the young kids because he fits their demographic. If he can't win big at Texas, I don't think he'll move up the food chain so to speak)
3. Greg Marshall (He is a winner, bottom line. He's won at Winthrop and at Wichita State. He's from SC and has spent a good portion of his time vacationing in NC and SC at the coach. Ran into him a few years ago at Ocean Isle. He is tough and has an edge. He's also a fighter and his kids love to play for him. Reminds me a lot of Izzo. The bad thing here is that he's also in his low 50's so not somebody we can expect to be around for 20 years)
4. Jay Wright (His teams are always competitive and he wins with a lot less than others. With UNC level talent, I think he'd win big. His style of play is attractive to young kids, specifically guards. The bad thing here is that he's already in his mid 50's and wouldn't be with us very long.)
 
IDUNK4HEELS said:
George Karl and Larry Brown cannot be left off any list
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Considering Brown will be 80 years old when Roy retires he better not be on the list. Karl is a good coach but im not sure if he's willing to do the college coach tasks that come with it.

Hiring within the family is nice for traditional purposes but it doesnt hang banners. Hire a young, hungry coach who wins at a smaller school but doesnt have the resources to win titles on the national level. When he gets an elite program he will produce. See Self, Bill, Calipari, John, and Miller, Sean for examples
 
IDUNK4HEELS said:
George Karl and Larry Brown cannot be left off any list
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Including the AARP list.

Karl is less than a year younger than Roy (64 years old) - and has had health problems of his own, and seems to be at the end of his coaching run. Larry brown is 10 years older than Roy (75 years old) - and even more concerning than that is that he's currently dealing with a post-season ban at SMU for his shenanigans.
 
I hope Roy remains healthy and coaches for another 4-5 years, or however long he feels he's still got it.

I hope there's some semblance of a plan in place if his health necessitates a change sooner than that. To be sure the AD is aware of the situation and has considered it and talked about it with Roy.

I'd love for it to be a hire within the Carolina family but only if there's a candidate who's genuinely ready, and right now I'm not sure there is one. Maybe by the time the change takes place someone will have established themselves as an obvious choice. The longer Roy coaches the better chance there is of that.

The replacement needs to be at least somewhat younger. Hiring a head coach who's within a decade of retirement doesn't make sense, as you're looking at uncertainly all over again just a few recruiting classes down the road. Coaching changes affect the program's momentum more often than not, so getting someone who will be here a while is key.

With all that said, SHEEEEEEED! Worth it for the entertainment value alone. ;)
 
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As someone who has vertigo...

It is something that comes and goes in spurts. You could have no attacks in 8 months or 12 in one day.

There is no rhyme or reason to the attacks. It doesn't get worse over time.

There are things that can trigger it. Suchs as sudden head movements, heat to cold real quickly, etc.

However, saying his vertigo is getting worse is not really accurate.
 
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Most our preferable coachs are in the NBA now.

Hoiberg was an obvious first choice. Stevens a top 5 choice.

I don't really know where you would want to go from here with maintaining our type of play.

Shaka Smart maybe but I couldn't see him leaving Texas.
 
gary-7 said:
Seriously?
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Most of these responses are realIy interesting...
Izzo, too old, Karl, health, LB rules(?) what rules see KU and UCLA...Wes ,mmm perhaps down the road, Scott Cherry if he is still coaching, hell Warren Martin if he is still teaching grade school...
If anyone has been paying attention, the senior staff are preparing Hubert to become a HC, at UNC, we'll see, at another University, we'll see there as well.
 
Tom79 said:
Most of these responses are realIy interesting...
Izzo, too old, Karl, health, LB rules(?) what rules see KU and UCLA...Wes ,mmm perhaps down the road, Scott Cherry if he is still coaching, hell Warren Martin if he is still teaching grade school...
If anyone has been paying attention, the senior staff are preparing Hubert to become a HC, at UNC, we'll see, at another University, we'll see there as well.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wonder if Hubert will take a head job in the next year or so... he could certainly get one... and then come back when Roy chooses to retire.
 
BillyL said:
Gary,

Phil had too much baggage to be considered as an option to UNC.
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Yeah, I know his past issues got in the way, but I do wonder if Dean might have gone to bat for him in the event Roy didn't come home. Moot point now of course.
I do know Phil is a total believer in the system --- it was refreshing and fascinating to hear him dissect the issues with Doh's teams and rattling off what he would call in certain situations.
 
gary-7 said:
Yeah, I know his past issues got in the way, but I do wonder if Dean might have gone to bat for him in the event Roy didn't come home. Moot point now of course.
I do know Phil is a total believer in the system --- it was refreshing and fascinating to hear him dissect the issues with Doh's teams and rattling off what he would call in certain situations.
Click to expand...

IMO, Phil would have been a pretty good coach for us.
 
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Sean Miller can recruit but can't coach, he has had monster talent and they have done nothing but underachieve. Brad Steven would be my first choice because he makes nothing into something. I would like to say don't discount King Rice, he has that program going in the right direction. King is young, his kids enjoys playing for him and he is part of the family. I know everyone has a bitter taste due to the Doherty thing but remember he was a good coach, just no fun to play for and that hurt recruiting. He was also a bad evaluator of talent.
 
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