And King has a special kind of "love" for dook and Mr. Hurley. He seemed to have his best games against Vader's boys.
Roy's Health....Next Coach
- Thread starter GoNtheDistance
- Start date
My mistake...
I think the only college program Stevens would leave for is Duke. Duke can compete financially... Also, I think an argument can be made that Duke is a better job than the Celtics at this moment.
Hiw about Coach Robinson? I know he's only about 10 years younger than Roy but he's been a very loyal assistant under Roy.
As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with you that Stevens just looks the part of the duke coach. But as I stated in my previous post, I'm not as enamored with him as everyone else seems to be.
There is no way in heaven or hell IMO that at any time is dook a better job than The Boston Celtics. dook cannot compete financially with the Celts unless the ownership just doesn't value the coach that much.
When I think about "Carolina Basketball," I'm thinking about more than just what you see on the court. It's about what goes on off the court. How players represent themselves and how they help keep the UNC basketball family together and pass down traditions and what they've learned. I don't care so much about the style of play being the same, but I do think the rest of that is extremely important. That doesn't mean that we can't find someone outside of the family who could keep all of that tradition going, but I think it would be harder for them to do so since they haven't experienced it themselves.
Thank you. I didn't want to come off as a homer, but these are my sentiments exactly.
Brad Stevens has a 6 yr/22 million contract. Less than 4 mil per year.
Coach K makes 10 mil/year?
Unless it's Brad Stevens. Anyone who doesn't think Brad Stevens is hands down the most valuable coaching commodity in basketball at any level right now is on crack. He's absolutely killing it with the Celtics and he's only 39 years old. I think Duke and Carolina are the only two schools he'd even pick up the phone for in the near future. Self isn't going anywhere, Calipari isn't going anywhere, but K and Roy are by default going to be done at some point sooner than later, so the phone might ring. If I were calling the shots for Dook or Carolina and he expressed any level of interest, I'd pay him whatever he wants to prevent him from going to the other school. This is assuming he'd leave the Celtics, and I don't know that he will. The NBA is just a better game right now.
All great insight and dialogue.
To the hijack kings of this board: Of course this discussion is hypothetical. Of course it's in the future. Of course, we all want Roy to coach for as long as he's willing and able. Offer insight or bring something to the conversation or keep it moving.
Quite sad some of the folks on here who have tried to hijack an otherwise interesting thread as if it's a knock on Roy; first it was Gary, then it was ChapelHeeled. I usually agree with Gary quite a bit so we'll chalk that one up. He's a good guy. But ChapelHeeled, you posed the question in this thread, where do I get off insinutating that Roy is going to retire? Read my post nimrod. It's all for discussion. Roy is a great guy, great coach, but his health is declining with his age. Newsflash, it's not uncommon for folks to wear down as they get older. If that's news to you then I got a beach house I'll sell you in the mountains. I can guarantee that Roy will eventually retire. Think about it. Accept it. Roy isn't ours forever. Roy's first responsibility is to himself and his family, no matter how much he loves UNC. Remember that. He's a hard nosed joker, but when he can't put in the time and effort at his standards, he'll walk away and good for him. Regardless, this thread gives us a good, yet interesting topic for discussion. Frankly, much better than a discussion on how bad our kids are playing right now.
To the hijack kings of this board: Of course this discussion is hypothetical. Of course it's in the future. Of course, we all want Roy to coach for as long as he's willing and able. Offer insight or bring something to the conversation or keep it moving.
Quite sad some of the folks on here who have tried to hijack an otherwise interesting thread as if it's a knock on Roy; first it was Gary, then it was ChapelHeeled. I usually agree with Gary quite a bit so we'll chalk that one up. He's a good guy. But ChapelHeeled, you posed the question in this thread, where do I get off insinutating that Roy is going to retire? Read my post nimrod. It's all for discussion. Roy is a great guy, great coach, but his health is declining with his age. Newsflash, it's not uncommon for folks to wear down as they get older. If that's news to you then I got a beach house I'll sell you in the mountains. I can guarantee that Roy will eventually retire. Think about it. Accept it. Roy isn't ours forever. Roy's first responsibility is to himself and his family, no matter how much he loves UNC. Remember that. He's a hard nosed joker, but when he can't put in the time and effort at his standards, he'll walk away and good for him. Regardless, this thread gives us a good, yet interesting topic for discussion. Frankly, much better than a discussion on how bad our kids are playing right now.
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Brad is highly respected for darn sure but the funny thing is there was this assistent that basically no one knew that came from Kansas, ended up with the job when McGuire bolted and the program basically in a tumble. No head coaching experience at all but he got a shot and that man has the arena we play in named after him and for my money is the best to ever teach the game.
There was this other fella that came from Army, was a former Army PG that got the head coaching job. A school about 10miles down the road from Chapel Hill, a trek down 15-501, decided they would hire this young brash kid from Army and give him a chance at re-building a once proud program. I may not like the guy but I am pretty sure the fans of his program love the heck out of him.
Point is it is the man and not the resume...Brad has a heck of a resume but I do wonder if his preferred style of play would actually fit either our program or that one down 15-501? There are other guys out there that may be better fits when the time does come to fill both coaching jobs. And yes, this kind of discussion is IMO worthy because whether it is a year from now, 5 or even a year or 2 after that, both Roy and K are on their final twilight years.
Obviously. That's a bad way of looking at it though, and Dean and K took programs over in a completely different era. Stevens is as close to a sure thing as there is, and again, he's 39. All I'm saying is he's easily the most valuable coach out there, assuming he's even available. Regarding him fitting our program... it would become his program and if he wins (which he has done everywhere, with less talent than his important competition), I'd be fine not having the up-tempo/secondary break system anymore. I also don't think you'll find a better guy. If he coached at Dook, I bet they'd almost become likable. Anyway, as noted previously by many here, this is all hypothetical anyways. I hope Roy has 20 good years left, but if we had to get a new coach tomorrow, I'd vote for paying Stevens as much as he wants.
I'll throw out a name that no one has mentioned. How about coach Robinson? I think he has been here long enough to consider him part of the Carolina family and he has head coaching experience (although his record at FSU wasn't very good). Not saying I would hire him, just thought it would be interesting to see what you guys thought.
I could see that in the mold of a transition coach like we had with Coach Guthridge.
What has Robinson done to prove worthy? Do you consider Leonard Hamilton a candidate? If not, then Robinson definitely shouldn't be considering Hamilton has had much more success at FSU.
I'm basing that on real success. I don't hate Hoiberg, but the Bulls are teetering on the playoffs barely above .500 this year with the same team that was 3rd in the east last year, whereas the Celtics are consistently better every year under Stevens and they don't have Rose, Butler and Gasol. Similarly, Iowa State was pretty good under Hoiberg. Butler went to two straight championships with guys that played for Butler.
One of those guys for Butler is a borderline NBA all-star. How many ISU guys have had that talent? Let's not act like Butler was devoid of talent.
I like Stevens. I really do. I just don't sweat him to the degree everyone else does. Small sample size. At Butler it could have just been catching lightning in a bottle.
Interesting to see how the debate has focussed mainly on coaches and their ability to coach and not just recruit.
It goes to show that the fans (at least on this board) want to see on-court results and player development, maybe rather than the OAD player turnstile.
If that's the case, then a program developer, player developer, great X&O coach is needed.
I'm not too fussed if they coach exactly the same style of basketball, though I do believe Carolina ball at its best is very pretty to watch. But, I would hate though if Roy's successor is a win-at-all costs kinda guy who'd kick to the kerb some of the beautiful tradition, inclusive, family feel that we see with the UNC program.
Stevens could be that guy, though I don't think he's the only one. Other good examples can be found in lower profile leagues, where coaches have to do more with less while also managing the program with much less resources:
eg: King Rice Archie Miller, Jerrod Hasse
The above all seem to fill that criteria and I'm sure there are others.
It goes to show that the fans (at least on this board) want to see on-court results and player development, maybe rather than the OAD player turnstile.
If that's the case, then a program developer, player developer, great X&O coach is needed.
I'm not too fussed if they coach exactly the same style of basketball, though I do believe Carolina ball at its best is very pretty to watch. But, I would hate though if Roy's successor is a win-at-all costs kinda guy who'd kick to the kerb some of the beautiful tradition, inclusive, family feel that we see with the UNC program.
Stevens could be that guy, though I don't think he's the only one. Other good examples can be found in lower profile leagues, where coaches have to do more with less while also managing the program with much less resources:
eg: King Rice Archie Miller, Jerrod Hasse
The above all seem to fill that criteria and I'm sure there are others.
Those that are comparing Roy going to Kansas as an unknown and more importantly Dean coming to UNC.....that is a stretch. College basketball is WAY different now than when Dean came. A coach that did what Dean did in his first three years (35-27, 56.5% winning %) would be canned at UNC in these days. To compare, Matt Doherty was 53-43 (55.2%) in his three years at UNC.
As for the question...that has to be a concern for us at this point. There is no clear "UNC guy" that is the automatic first call (like Roy was). There are a number of names in the mix, and I think part of Bubba's job is to have feelers out there well before the need is there.
I see no way that Karl or Larry Brown even get a call. I think it's college guys (with the exception of Stevens) that gets calls. The NBA is a different animal. Gino Auriemma has gone on record as saying the only jobs he would leave UCONN for is Duke or UNC. I don't say that saying Gino is our guy....but Duke/UNC are special jobs that will get attention when an opening is there.
I think King Rice, Hubert Davis, Jerrod Haase, Brad Stevens, Gregg Marshall, Mike O'Koren, Sean Miller, Kevin Stallings and more will get calls.
As for the question...that has to be a concern for us at this point. There is no clear "UNC guy" that is the automatic first call (like Roy was). There are a number of names in the mix, and I think part of Bubba's job is to have feelers out there well before the need is there.
I see no way that Karl or Larry Brown even get a call. I think it's college guys (with the exception of Stevens) that gets calls. The NBA is a different animal. Gino Auriemma has gone on record as saying the only jobs he would leave UCONN for is Duke or UNC. I don't say that saying Gino is our guy....but Duke/UNC are special jobs that will get attention when an opening is there.
I think King Rice, Hubert Davis, Jerrod Haase, Brad Stevens, Gregg Marshall, Mike O'Koren, Sean Miller, Kevin Stallings and more will get calls.
Im sure Alabama football realllllyyyy regrets hiring a non Bear Bryant disciple like Nick Saban.
You can keep the tradition, but unless you hire the best coach available you wont keep the successPromoting the idea is much different than discussing the DISTANT possibility. Get it yet Nimrod (your Word)...?
GMAFB with that idiotic comparison. Not in the same realm. Football systems change like the wind, basketball does not.Im sure Alabama football realllllyyyy regrets hiring a non Bear Bryant disciple like Nick Saban.
Oh, and BTW, Alabama brought in a different coaching system but they kept their way of doing things --- cheating. The Red Elephant Club is alive and well and is operating just as it was under that old drunk crook Bear Bryant, the dirtiest coach who ever coached anything.
Dean Smith on the other hand, came in and cleaned up the mess from Frank McGuire's shenanigans and built what is Carolina Basketball. It is a beautiful, archetype of a system and the RIGHT way of doing things. Neither of those should ever change. If it wasn't for Dean there would be no Roy, and if not for Roy carrying that on there wouldn't be the next Carolina coach.
I personally wouldn't hire either one, I was just putting a name out there for conversation. The two biggest "requirements" that most on this thread have said is staying in the family and/or head coaching experience. He has both.
I still think Archie Miller is the next big up and comer. If he's patient, he'll land a huge gig like his brother did.
I'm a little surprised at how many people are insistent that the next coach MUST be "in the family." I'm not opposed to it, but, I'd be just as happy with a promising coach who had never been to Chapel Hill and whose "style" was a winning style, period. I don't have to see carbon-copy Roy Williams teams to enjoy them. If they're in Carolina Blue, and competitive and making our legacy continue, that works for me! I doubt Kansas fans are sweating that Bill Self coaches differently than Roy.
Idiotic? Just because you missed the point doesnt mean you can insult a valid argument. My point is that Alabama went outside the "family" and hired the best coach available and is now enjoying the best era in their history despite already being a historical powerhouse before that. Compare that to a program like USC that's continually handed coaches the job just for being in the family and theyve had to hit the reset button every two years ever since Pete Carrol went to the Seahawks.
You can keep running a clean program and do things the "Carolina Way" by bringing in someone without a connection to the program, to think otherwise is ignorant. Calling Nick Saban and Bama a cheating program without any infractions or other evidence is ignorant too. Sean Miller had no connection to Arizona but he's embraced the legacy Lute Olsen left and he's already had more 30 win seasons than Olsen ever had and he's been there for 7 years. Kansas seems to be doing pretty well with Bill Self who had no connection to them before he got there, is he running things the same way Phog Allen did?
And basketball systems change just as much as football systems do, have you not seen what the Warriors are doing? 5 years ago it was unheard of to have a lineup with the tallest guy being 6'8 and playing small ball but theyre currently putting together the most dominant season in history. The emergence of the stretch 4 and the emphasis on the 3 ball has revolutionized basketball in the last decade and has made its way into the college game. That's why there's more parity in college basketball than ever before and you see more upsets in the tournament than ever before. I'm pretty sure when Dean got to UNC there wasn't a shot clock or a 3 point line, but he adjusted accordingly to the changes in the game. God forbid we actually bring in a guy that's innovative and adjusted to the new landscape of the game.
Bleed, I know you have sources but I really hope this doesn't happen. Imo, Roy's replacement must have proven success as a head coach.
gary, I understand and appreciate where ya coming from my friend but I am gonna disagree with you a lil bit on this. And it kinda comes back to what jung was asking on the second page of this thread, what is Carolina basketball?
For me Carolina basketball is not as much about the xs & os, it is about our traditions. It is about maintaining that sense of family among our former players, it is about teaching and developing good kids that do not embarass the university or the program, not all that easy to do this day & time because as good a man as Roy is he has had some head cases, Dean did to.
Ya know, one of the things that Matt did when he got the job was to fire a few long time associates of the program, people that were loved but Matt wanted to put a end to what had occurred before him and rebrand UNC basketball in his own image. Now I am not saying a guy like Hubert would do that but it was that driving desire that the resume had to have a former UNC coach or player as its next head coach that resulted in matt. I want the best coach for the job that will respect and continue the time tested traditions of UNC and that coach for me does not have to come from any coaching tree.
A couple folks above mentioned Hoiberg, honestly, IMO, he would be a home run hire on par with Brad Stevens IMO. Xs & Os evolve, traditions should not. I want a coach that runs a clean program, I love larry Brown, would NEVER want him to head coach at UNC, George Karl, loved him as a player but no. It will be interesting to see where King and Haas are when the time does roll around but right now I am not sure they are ready. Prohm and Archie Miller are interesting considerations, Greg Marshal, no freakin way, he ain't the guy.
I have seen way to often how the limb of the tree does not coach like the trunk of the tree did. Matt was a Roy assistant, larry Brown was a Dean assistant. Can you in your wildest dreams imagine Dean for example taking the same position on usage of a zone defense as Roy? Dean made such a mark on this sport that many coaches use many of his concepts, he was an innovator of the game he learned from Phog Allen, I want the next coach to be an innovator as well, not lose the the traditions we love but to build on them.
We going to keep this up for the next 5-6 years? Maybe we need to go ahead and pin this so we quit having the same discussion over-over.?
I'm ok with it being Hubert I just want someone to tell me why him, what has he done to get the call?
I mean if we are going to use this logic of just picking someone off the Carolina tree why not just pick one of Dean Smiths kids or grandkids and make them an asst. and give it to them when Roy retires at least that way you can use the bloodline argument?
Once again ChapelHeeled, read all my posts and tell me where I promote Roy retiring? It was for discussion!
Was it where I said I hope he coaches as long as he's able? Was it where I said we are lucky to have him?.....sure sounds like im promoting for him to retire doesn't it? Yeah not so much.
You win the Tampax Poster of the Day, given to the poster who attempts to hijack a good thread for no reason, gets called out and then responds with yet another outlandish response.
Was it where I said I hope he coaches as long as he's able? Was it where I said we are lucky to have him?.....sure sounds like im promoting for him to retire doesn't it? Yeah not so much.
You win the Tampax Poster of the Day, given to the poster who attempts to hijack a good thread for no reason, gets called out and then responds with yet another outlandish response.
Quick question for UNC fans. When the time comes(hopefully we get a few more years of Roy vs K because they make for great games) do you think that much like when Dean stepped down, he was making the call on who would be coach, and I assume K will basically have that same power, how do you think Roy will handle that? I could see it being more likely to stay in the UNC family if its basically up to Roy because I would assume to some extent since its going to happen in 2-3-5 years just due to age that there's some thought process going on it Roys head. Perhaps that was part of getting Hubert... Just wondering if you think Roy will be consulted or if he will have most of the final say?
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