Silent Sam Toppled by Protestors
- Thread starter uncboy10
- Start date
My concern with what Germans do with their statue choices is basically zero, so I'm not going to take the time to research every statue in Germany. You're being sloppy again though. Silent Sam was a statue in remembrance of a specific group of soldiers, UNC students, and was made in such a way to honor the student and not the war (empty ammo box, direction it's facing, etc.).
It’s still representative of a group that waged war on the United States over the ability to own people as property.
Call me crazy, but I choose not to align with that crowd.
I think you're correct not to align with them, just try to make good comparisons from now on.
I basically agree with what you said. But, as I understand it, it was put up - like a lot of statues erected in that same time period - with less gracious intent than you suggest. And even if it was intended only to represent benevolent values, today it is a symbol of a brutal war fought to defend and extend a monstrous practice.
I agree with those who say that such symbols deserve some representation in museums. This is history, after all, and shouldn't be forgotten. But not at a public university, in a public space, where the implied (and probably intended) sympathy with slavers is on display as though it deserves attention and approbation.
A mob destroying it is not the best way to accomplish that.
But might be the best available way to get it done - given the inaction and political hostility of state government, and the willingness of the UNC administration to hide behind the state's transparent defense of symbols of treason and slavery.
The Confederate Museum in Richmond is amazing.
I agree, there are places for these symbols in museums, not in public squares.
That "best available way", of breaking the law, will have consequences.
I'm also wondering who gets to decided what the "best available way" is in other situations?
I didn't deflect. We literally just discussed this a few post up. Stop with the trolling.
Oh great, so that we can just have a new target for faux outrage and vandalism?
False.
Prefer whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that they were indeed Americans.
They weren’t Americans when fighting the war.
They should replace Silent Sam with a hologram just to torment the little vandals.
So you can go from being American, to not being American, to being American again?
That's a trick I'll have to try out around tax day next year.
Pretty sure this is what you guys told me when I went to Canada for vacation.
Good point. I guess they were domestic terrorists murdering Americans
It does seem to be isolated to Confederacy/Civil War icons. They were the "traitors" and the epitome of Whites > Blacks for all intents and purposes. And, the Jim Crow/Racists seem to have been spawned from the war, for our cultural parameters.
It was only the best available way to get it done right now. It's not surprising as society has become all about the "right now". While I agree that the will to remove the statue is not currently present, I highly doubt that it will never be present. These decisions are made in the political arena so get involved and never relent.
Of course taking that road is harder, requires more of a sustained effort, and maybe a little work. It is the lasting solution but it's not "right now" and it's really hard. Much easier just to bum rush the thing and feel good about things for a bit.
I don't know if they plan to put it back up or not. If so, what was gained? A shout out and footnote on wikipedia I suppose.
Bottom line for me, I don’t think we need shrines to honor those people who seceded from the United States in the name of upholding Slavery. These guys made their choices. I’m fine with noting their place in history at appropriate sites. Any statue on public land should adorn a plaque that states these men were traitors and fought against the US.
People have been trying to get these statues removed for 50+ years.
I disagree. I think the civil rights movement had bigger fish to fry 50 years ago than a statue at UNC. The law protecting the statue(s) is a 2015 law. Now why did they pass that law? I contend that attitudes are changing and some don't care for that a whole lot. Why else pass a law when they did? Laws can be changed and in time that's exactly what will happen, this particular event notwithstanding.
I believe many of the generals of the CSA would agree with you.
I would encourage you to drop this "traitor" attitude. Traitor was used a lot at that time, too. I've seen and read a great deal about the battle reunions that took place after the war. And, I assure you, the soldiers from each army did not view their former foes as traitors at those events.
In fact, "traitor" seems to stick after wars take their break until the next one starts. Whichever army/side "wins" a war, then whoever "loses" are disgraced and considered traitors or whatever they are, historically. Meanwhile, there are lost fathers, brothers, sons, husbands, and so forth, and the sorrow is felt equally regardless of the color of the uniform that the dead wore. And, in order for a complete reconciliation to take place, both sides need forgiven. The men that chose to fight for what they believed were their homes, families, and way of life did not feel that they were traitors. And, they had plenty of company.
You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.time...ent-sam-confederate-statue-unc-racist-history
In fact, protests against the statue began in the 1960s during the Civil Rights movement, according to the school’s library. Demonstrators covered Silent Sam in red paint after the assassination of civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. Its defenders removed the paint the following day and decorated the statue with small Confederate flags, which they were later told to remove. Black student groups continued to use the statue as a gathering place for speeches and protests in the years that followed, including demonstrations following the Rodney King verdict.
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. But let me take a guess - this is a weak attempt in conveying the message that I'm "doomed to repeat history" because I'm not standing up to hate speech? Is that what you're getting at?
They took up arms against the United States. That, to me, is a treasonous act.
What about Thomas Jefferson? All the freedoms you have are largely because of him. However, he was a slave owner. So it gets tricky. UVa will be under fire at some point. I guarantee you that happens within a couple years.
I get what you're saying but there were many who didn't want them to get off that easy but Lincoln (correctly) decided it was what was best for America. I get it though.
Well, but , you see, THEY believed that the USA was like Britain 80 years before. If the colonies had "lost", then there'd be a whole nation of traitor lineage.
It was no easy choice to make. You stay with the USA, you're a traitor to your home, your family, your community. It's one of the pitfalls of tribalism.
Yeah - Jefferson is tough. And if they start tearing down UVA they are ruining what I think is the greatest college campus in America.
It's not easy. What's ok to keep and what's not. Is what Washington and Jefferson did for America enough to overlook the fact that they were slave owners? I think everyone has a different opinion on it. To me, it is. Do I think we should celebrate it? No. If there was a statue of Jefferson whipping a slave, I'd want that taken down.
Shit isn't easy. If it was we wouldn't have like 100 pages dedicated to the debate on a college message board.
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