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So, who's going to follow the election results tonight?

The evidence points to better outcomes for those countries when they adopt these policies. The US has fallen behind in healthcare and education as other countries have adopted national healthcare systems and tuition free public universities. “Free” market fetishism in the US is a big part of the problem. Markets are not the best solution to every problem.

What evidence are you referring to, and are any of the countries that it works well in a good proxy for the US? I could see something working out great in Denmark with it's population of 5.7M, but that would scale terribly for a country the size of the US.
 
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Subsidizing those tech and associates degrees would be a great way to incentivize that.

I don't see why we would need to subsidize that at all. If those degrees are valuable enough, and the holders of those degrees make enough money, people will move in that direction once the NPV of going to college at exorbitant rates declines below that of going to a trade school.
 
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Apparently he's sort of a democrat.
Ahhh, okay. I didn't know that.

Apparently, the CNN staff has never heard anything so "unfathomable" as his PC this afternoon. I only heard the last part, starting with the PBS reporter's question about the Nationalist remark and White Nationalists finding comfort in that comment from him, He said it was racist, the CNN guys were appalled at him saying it was racist. Well, I'm someone who has been incredibly critical of Donald trump, and what she asked him was a baited, racially-incriminating question.

I don't believe that Donald Trump is a racist. He's certainly not a racist in the same way as someone like David Duke, or even Strom Thurmond. I do believe that his rhetoric, and the way it is translated in our society, allows for the more blatantly racist and prejudiced people to be pulled into his company. They interpret it as him being tolerant and condoning racial prejudice, and I do not believe he condones or engages in it. If he does, on any level, it would be in relation to his own generation and his lax vernacular, in general. Trump is hardly eloquent compared to polished lifelong politicians. He's Queens, NY guy, when it gets down to it.
 
Also, I haven't seen the numbers on this so I could be dead wrong, but I'd imagine a large portion of the student debt burden in this country is from people who took out loans to go to a private school, as they generally have much higher tuitions. Giving free tuition to state schools wouldn't solve that portion of the equation at all.
 
Also, I haven't seen the numbers on this so I could be dead wrong, but I'd imagine a large portion of the student debt burden in this country is from people who took out loans to go to a private school, as they generally have much higher tuitions.
That would depend on how many students go to public vs private. Also, depends on if they are in state or out of state students.
 
I don't see why we would need to subsidize that at all. If those degrees are valuable enough, and the holders of those degrees make enough money, people will move in that direction once the NPV of going to college at exorbitant rates declines below that of going to a trade school.

The NPV doesn’t matter to people don’t have the ability to pay. That’s my concern. Talented people not going to college because they can’t afford it.

Also, I haven't seen the numbers on this so I could be dead wrong, but I'd imagine a large portion of the student debt burden in this country is from people who took out loans to go to a private school, as they generally have much higher tuitions. Giving free tuition to state schools wouldn't solve that portion of the equation at all.

Private school debt doesn’t really concern me. If they want to take on debt for that then that’s on them. I doubt that it’s a huge share of the debt though. As far as I know most students aren’t going to private schools.
 
"8. Seventy three percent of students attend all types of public colleges and universities.

9. Just 16 percent of students attend private nonprofit colleges and universities."


https://www.usnews.com/education/bl...11/09/06/20-surprising-higher-education-facts

ETA: This is an older study, but I doubt it's changed much.
I have no doubt that more people attend public than private. I'm actually surprised the percentage of public wasn't bigger.

But that doesn't speak to the debt levels. If the average public school student graduates with $5K of debt, and the average private school student graduates with $50K of debt, then private school debt will be the larger portion of the two.

I also doubt that's the case, but the point I'm making is that I'm not sure how much of the student debt problem will be alleviated by making state colleges tuition free. In fact, it will just be transferring that debt burden from student loans to the government to fund the tuition free schools.
 
But you named Canada.

I did. Personally I’ve heard a lot of accounts of people walking into a hospital, getting treated then walking out without a bill. It seems like most of the waiting is for elective surgeries and getting an appointment with a specialist. Obviously seeing a specialist is important for many things but so is not getting bankrupted by exorbitant medical bills. I’d like to see us move away from private health insurance, and install pricing controls for the medical industry.
 
I did. Personally I’ve heard a lot of accounts of people walking into a hospital, getting treated then walking out without a bill. It seems like most of the waiting is for elective surgeries and getting an appointment with a specialist. Obviously seeing a specialist is important for many things but so is not getting bankrupted by exorbitant medical bills. I’d like to see us move away from private health insurance, and install pricing controls for the medical industry.

Might want to check with the docs and nurses to make sure they would be good with this, or else your labor pool shrinks and there is already a shortage of both.
 
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The evidence points to better outcomes for those countries when they adopt these policies. The US has fallen behind in healthcare and education as other countries have adopted national healthcare systems and tuition free public universities. “Free” market fetishism in the US is a big part of the problem. Markets are not the best solution to every problem.

Go ask the people in Sweden or Belgium how that's treating them?
 
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I did. Personally I’ve heard a lot of accounts of people walking into a hospital, getting treated then walking out without a bill. It seems like most of the waiting is for elective surgeries and getting an appointment with a specialist. Obviously seeing a specialist is important for many things but so is not getting bankrupted by exorbitant medical bills. I’d like to see us move away from private health insurance, and install pricing controls for the medical industry.
I just watched a special on TV(not FOX) a couple of weeks ago about this very thing. Canada is not in a good situation.
 
And they have a much smaller population than us. My family has its share of medical expenses but I wouldn't even consider another country for care.

That doesn’t mean we can’t do better than the horrible system we have now. A more mixed system like Germany has would also be a major improvement
 
And they have a much smaller population than us. My family has its share of medical expenses but I wouldn't even consider another country for care.

We had a couple of exchange students from Belgium back in the spring. They told me that their social safety net system, which was considered the gold standard by the socialists, is almost ruined at this point. I'll give you three guesses as to who's responsible, and the first two don't count.
 
Might want to check with the docs and nurses to make sure they would be good with this, or else your labor pool shrinks and there is already a shortage of both.

Right?! People go into the medical field because they make a lot of money. Don't be fooled. If medical professionals cannot continue to make a lot of money or if it gets too difficult for them to make a lot of money, the best and brightest will choose different careers and we'll be left with people like Dr. Lexus from Idiocracy.

DrLexusjpeg_zpsb21a244d.jpg
 
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Right?! People go into the medical field because they make a lot of money. Don't be fooled. If medical professionals cannot continue to make a lot of money or if it gets too difficult for them to make a lot of money, the best and brightest will choose different careers and we'll be left with people like Dr. Lexus from Idiocracy.

DrLexusjpeg_zpsb21a244d.jpg

My first wife was tarded. She's a pilot now.
 
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So which is it you want? Single payer or what? Bernie wants single payer right?

I would prefer single payer, and yes that's what he wants. But I think the ACA would have been a lot better if they didn't scrap the public option.
 
I would prefer single payer, and yes that's what he wants. But I think the ACA would have been a lot better if they didn't scrap the public option.
Didn't think they scrapped it. ACA signup was last week. They scrapped the individual mandate.
 
But that doesn't speak to the debt levels. If the average public school student graduates with $5K of debt, and the average private school student graduates with $50K of debt, then private school debt will be the larger portion of the two.
I read somewhere the difference is less than $10k. If that's the case, then public school is a majority of the debt load.
 
Very few things the government touches turn out very good. A public option would be the same.

That’s simply not true. Many of the resources that underpin our democratic society are provided by the government. Roads, schools, bridges, defense, and research are all largely or entirely government funded and run.
 
That’s simply not true. Many of the resources that underpin our democratic society are provided by the government. Roads, schools, bridges, defense, and research are all largely or entirely government funded and run.

Our infrastructure is falling apart. Our schools are underperforming. Our defense budget is beyond bloated. I'm not sure exactly what research, that the government is responsible for, is really needed. So, tell us again how the government is doing such a bang-up job?
 
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