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THUG who killed NYPD officer.....

  • I'm not Anti-police, but I am VERY Pro-Civil Disobedience. If things get out-of-balance, or if power is being misused, then it's up to us to put them back into balance.

The Rosa Parks example was ideal. And, the 50 years ago the kid would have been in an all-black school is also a very good thing to point-out.

At least most of us here know that being white, being above the poverty line, and being male affords us some privileges we take for granted. It's best if we don't exploit that, but be definitely be aware of it so you can have some perspective.

I'm not excusing the student's disobedience. But, her disobedience is not what has blown this into a huge national outrage. Unintended consequences from your actions is a hard lesson. I truly hope that other kids will see this and NOT be compelled to repeat the student's actions just for attention, or any other reason. But, kids are not as accountabe for exploitation of actions as adults. If this kind of thing happens often, or has happened oftena nd we just didn't have smartphones to record it, then it's no wonder there is hostility.
 
Police shooting about 5 miles from my home. The dash-cam videos are just now released from an altercation in July.

The kid that was driving the car, Zach Hammond, 19, was NOT even being investigated or under any suspicion. He was on a date with a girl, who had marijuana and was under investigation, and a sting was called-in at the Hardee's on 123 in Seneca. The officer jumps out, shouts at Hammond and opens fire, and he was shot and killed... over marijuana! The cop will face no charges.
Before:
http://www.wyff4.com/news/no-charges-for-seneca-officer-who-killed-teen-solicitor-says/36059966

After:

http://www.wyff4.com/2nd-dashcam-video-shows-what-happened-after-officer-kills-teen/36072754
 
Strum I have seen the dash-cam and also looked at all the text messages that led up to this. Maybe you should read them also. Bottom line is the kid had cocaine in his system, his "girlfriend" was selling drugs and that's why he even met the cop and IF HE HAD DONE WHAT THE COP SAID he would still be alive.
 
Strum I have seen the dash-cam and also looked at all the text messages that led up to this. Maybe you should read them also. Bottom line is the kid had cocaine in his system, his "girlfriend" was selling drugs and that's why he even met the cop and IF HE HAD DONE WHAT THE COP SAID he would still be alive.
There is no reason for that kid to be dead. Shoot-out the tires, or anything. Just unloading on him and killing him over POT is not necessary. Even the Lt. that killed the kid was stupid to put his own life in that much danger over POT!

I have a close friend who has a very close friend who was on that force for over 10 years and quit because it has become so corrupt and maligned.


Jesus loves you, Tazki.
 
The kid made the decision to run. Read the text messages Strum. He called himself an "animal" and referred to himself as being in a gang (not sure of a gang that would allow the weasel) and even said one day the "police will take him out". He had coke in his system and ran from the cops while committing a crime. Sorry but he chose his path.
 
Bottom line is the kid had cocaine in his system

No, he did not. That lie doesn't help you.

"In his statement last week, Mussetto said that "a white powdery substance consistent with powder cocaine was found by the coroner on Mr. Hammond's person and was taken as evidence by [the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division]," which is now investigating Hammond's case.

An incident report filed by another officer at the scene makes no mention of cocaine being found on Hammond’s body. In any case, this detail is irrelevant to the questions currently being asked of police in Seneca. Possible cocaine possession does nothing to explain why an officer used lethal -- and the family argues excessive -- force on Hammond."
 
The kid made the decision to run. Read the text messages Strum. He called himself an "animal" and referred to himself as being in a gang (not sure of a gang that would allow the weasel) and even said one day the "police will take him out". He had coke in his system and ran from the cops while committing a crime. Sorry but he chose his path.
WTF are you talking about??? He was not even involved in the sting. It was over the female with him that was under investigation for marijuana!
 
You have a link to the way this went down, or is this speculation?

Speculation. But informed speculation. My job requires that I'm in schools from time to time and as I've stated plenty here, my organization works with underprivileged youth and families (as you well know). So when I make these statements, I have a lot of experience to base it on. I'm not going to school by day and playing cover songs at a local bar at night and deciding to spout off. This is real life, professional experiences talking.

50 years ago, that child would have been in a different school in Columbia SC.

I'm failing to see what difference that makes. Whatever school that kid was attending 50 years ago, the scenario would have been just as I described it. The parent would have been mortified that their kid was thumbing their nose at the free education (even more so then) and they would have been embarrassed that their child, for no good reason, challenged authority. And frankly, they probably would have been beaten like a rented mule when they got home.

You know who else didn't get up from her seat when the police told her to? Rosa Parks. And they arrested her, in a time where police violence against blacks was probably acceptable. Yet they found a way to arrest Rosa Parks without throwing her to the ground and cuffing her.

Are you equating this kid's disobedient behavior to the courageous stand Rosa Parks took? If not, then I don't see what Rosa Parks has to do with the cost of tea in China. In fact, it strengthens my argument if anything.

You know why it's hip to challenge authority? Because many of us have seen plenty of episodes of police misconduct. Hell, it's hard to have lived a more privileged life than me and I have seen cops act maliciously plenty of times. I can't imagine how much more I would have seen it if I lived in underprivileged circumstances. And all that being said, I would never challenge police in this manner. But I can also afford to pay a good lawyer if I need one.

See, that's the problem. The message that all people should be sending is that "police are good and here to help you" and then deal with outlier situations when they arise. The message should not be "the police are suspect - be very careful when dealing with them as many are shady." And again, the other - just as important message should be - "don't step out of line. Don't hang around people that step out of line. Mind your Ps and Qs, walk a straight line and more times than not, you'll have no dealings with police. In the event you do, be respectful, obey and if mistreated, deal with it on the backside through the proper channels." That applies to you, Mr. Silver Spoon and little Johnny from the projects.

Sometimes people have rage that stays down until a spark. Yes, I agree that Michael Brown was a bullshit spark, but at this point, it doesn't matter.

And sometimes people make up "rage" to make them feel better about their station in life. Playing the victim is a lot easier than pulling yourself up by the bootstraps.

Do you think that cop would have done what he did to that kid if he had realized or thought about being on tape? Nope, no way. What should have happened? I suppose that when she was asked to get up, and didn't, the principal should have been called to expel her on the spot. At that point, she could have been told she was no longer a student and was trespassing and that she would be forcibly removed from grounds and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, if necessary. At that point, you can then pick her up and cuff her if she refuses to cooperate.

I already stated that I felt the cop's action was excessive. So I'm not excusing this one incident. This discussion is centered more around the fact that people (apparently you included) are throwing fuel on the fire by excusing society's bad behavior by citing the very few incidents in which police acted inappropriately. You may be smart enough to separate cops overreacting and real true criminal threats. But most can't. And when you, strum, uncboy or other apologist/anti-police people get to ranting about how bad cops are, all it does is give the impression that people don't have to respect those that have been given the responsibility of enforcing the law.
 
Huh, that's funny. Because I was fully aware there were this many nitwits on the left.

Uh huh. Says the guy who seriously believes that the POTUS is "setting the tone" for violence towards police, when in fact the numbers are way down. You're living in a fact condom
 
WTF are you talking about??? He was not even involved in the sting. It was over the female with him that was under investigation for marijuana!
Nevermind... I see the article on greenvilleonline.com

The kid was apparently a potential powder keg. My bad. Still seems excessive to shoot them over marijuana... but, whatever. According to that article, he was a lot more dangerous than I was originally made aware. I stand corrected.
 
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So if its warranted how do u remove a student from class when they refuse to get up from their desk? Would the cop be okay if he had drug her out more politely? Those of u that r teachers please weigh in on whats the policy.
 
So if its warranted how do u remove a student from class when they refuse to get up from their desk? Would the cop be okay if he had drug her out more politely? Those of u that r teachers please weigh in on whats the policy.

There's no need to throw the desk with her in it. Its pretty easy to slide one of those desks, even with a person in it. They could've easily drug the desk out into the hall, and taken more time to more carefully remove her. Would some force be necessary? Sure. But the cop threw the damn desk with her in it. He obviously lost control of his temper. Which proves he isn't fit to be a police officer.
 
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WTF are you talking about??? He was not even involved in the sting. It was over the female with him that was under investigation for marijuana!

Please take the time to read the full statement to SLED Strum. He did have coke in his system. All of the messages were from his phone while his meth head girlfriend (see the pic) was sending them. He did make the statements. READ the report.
 
Please take the time to read the full statement to SLED Strum. He did have coke in his system. All of the messages were from his phone while his meth head girlfriend (see the pic) was sending them. He did make the statements. READ the report.

Can you provide a link to all of this taz?

TIA
 
There's no need to throw the desk with her in it. Its pretty easy to slide one of those desks, even with a person in it. They could've easily drug the desk out into the hall, and taken more time to more carefully remove her. Would some force be necessary? Sure. But the cop threw the damn desk with her in it. He obviously lost control of his temper. Which proves he isn't fit to be a police officer.

Was not her fault was it uncboy? Oh no! Always the cops fault. I swear you lefties will destroy this country. Doing a damn good job of it as we speak.
 
all it does is give the impression that people don't have to respect those that have been given the responsibility of enforcing the law.

Stop lying, dick. I have NEVER said, implied, or encouraged people to disrespect law enforcement. NEVER. I don't encourage anyone to disrespect anyone else at all. Being critical and observant, and knowing your rights, is not promoting, or even condoning, disrespect at all.
 
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Was not her fault was it uncboy? Oh no! Always the cops fault. I swear you lefties will destroy this country. Doing a damn good job of it as we speak.

I clearly said in my post that some force would be necessary. Try reading before you make yourself look like an ass.
 
The kid made the decision to run. Read the text messages Strum. He called himself an "animal" and referred to himself as being in a gang (not sure of a gang that would allow the weasel) and even said one day the "police will take him out". He had coke in his system and ran from the cops while committing a crime. Sorry but he chose his path.
See below where I rescinded my earlier comments. I read it on greenvilleonline,com ,You were right. I was never made aware of the kid's background until today. It still seems excessive to kill the kid over pot.

ETA: There is some suspicion over Chrissy Adams' and the SPD in general, as far as accuracy of the account. But, I'll leave that to the civil trial.
 
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There's no need to throw the desk with her in it. Its pretty easy to slide one of those desks, even with a person in it. They could've easily drug the desk out into the hall, and taken more time to more carefully remove her. Would some force be necessary? Sure. But the cop threw the damn desk with her in it. He obviously lost control of his temper. Which proves he isn't fit to be a police officer.

Well i cant help but think that regardless of how shes removed, when time comes to forcibly remove her from the desk, that any attempt to do so is gonna look ugly and confrontational and any video of that action will be met with the same reaction. So basically he did nothing wrong except do it with a bad temper. I dont see how u remove her from the desk without a big struggle that would prob result in the desk getting flipped at some point. Seems like a nightmare scenario for teachers and the cops to deal with.
 
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Well i cant help but think that regardless of how shes removed, when time comes to forcibly remove her from the desk, that any attempt to do so is gonna look ugly and confrontational and any video of that action will be met with the same reaction. So basically he did nothing wrong except do it with a bad temper. I dont see how u remove her from the desk without a big struggle that would prob result in the desk getting flipped at some point. Seems like a nightmare scenario for teachers and the cops to deal with.

She's a teenage girl. If he can't handle that situation without throwing a desk then he isn't qualified to be a police officer. Period.
 
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Speculation. But informed speculation. My job requires that I'm in schools from time to time and as I've stated plenty here, my organization works with underprivileged youth and families (as you well know). So when I make these statements, I have a lot of experience to base it on. I'm not going to school by day and playing cover songs at a local bar at night and deciding to spout off. This is real life, professional experiences talking.

Ok, so you were speculating. Got it.

I'm failing to see what difference that makes. Whatever school that kid was attending 50 years ago, the scenario would have been just as I described it. The parent would have been mortified that their kid was thumbing their nose at the free education (even more so then) and they would have been embarrassed that their child, for no good reason, challenged authority. And frankly, they probably would have been beaten like a rented mule when they got home.

It makes a difference to provide context. I know you have confidence in your ability to speculatel, but I am sure that you don't know what it is like to not be able to go to a school because of the color of your skin.

Are you equating this kid's disobedient behavior to the courageous stand Rosa Parks took? If not, then I don't see what Rosa Parks has to do with the cost of tea in China. In fact, it strengthens my argument if anything.

So cops in the 60s didn't need to throw Rosa Parks around to get her to move from her seat, but this guy needed to sling this kid around? Gotcha.

See, that's the problem. The message that all people should be sending is that "police are good and here to help you" and then deal with outlier situations when they arise. The message should not be "the police are suspect - be very careful when dealing with them as many are shady." And again, the other - just as important message should be - "don't step out of line. Don't hang around people that step out of line. Mind your Ps and Qs, walk a straight line and more times than not, you'll have no dealings with police. In the event you do, be respectful, obey and if mistreated, deal with it on the backside through the proper channels." That applies to you, Mr. Silver Spoon and little Johnny from the projects.
.

If the police were good and here to help us, then this shit wouldn't be going on. But it does. Every day. To all sorts of people. You have had the good fortune to not encounter police misconduct. I hope it continues for you.

The message should absolutely be that the cops are suspect. It should also be to be very respectful and do what the cop asks, up to the point where he oversteps his bounds. Then continue to be respectful but don't be intimidated or give up your rights.

And sometimes people make up "rage" to make them feel better about their station in life. Playing the victim is a lot easier than pulling yourself up by the bootstraps.

And sometimes people are angry and they have a right to be. Just because you don't see it does not mean the anger is not warranted. That's not to say that playing the victim is a good idea, ever, because it's not. But sometimes people are actually legitimate victims.

I already stated that I felt the cop's action was excessive. So I'm not excusing this one incident. This discussion is centered more around the fact that people (apparently you included) are throwing fuel on the fire by excusing society's bad behavior by citing the very few incidents in which police acted inappropriately. You may be smart enough to separate cops overreacting and real true criminal threats. But most can't. And when you, strum, uncboy or other apologist/anti-police people get to ranting about how bad cops are, all it does is give the impression that people don't have to respect those that have been given the responsibility of enforcing the law.

I'm not excusing society's bad behavior. But the cop screwed it all up- if he had kept his cool, then this girl would not have been the victim. Now she is.

If someone is stupid enough to be disrespectful to a cop, then that is their problem. However and even more importantly, cops do not have the right to overreact just because the cops perceive that someone disrespected their authority or even them personally. If a cop can't figure this simple fact out, then perhaps he shouldn't be a cop at all.
 
Well i cant help but think that regardless of how shes removed, when time comes to forcibly remove her from the desk, that any attempt to do so is gonna look ugly and confrontational and any video of that action will be met with the same reaction. So basically he did nothing wrong except do it with a bad temper. I dont see how u remove her from the desk without a big struggle that would prob result in the desk getting flipped at some point. Seems like a nightmare scenario for teachers and the cops to deal with.

Bingo. If they had slid the desk out into the hallway first, the cop still would have basically had to tackle her to get her out of the desk. And then people would still be crying about those horrible police officers that brutally beat that poor little black girl.

It is indeed a nightmare situation for cops to deal with...like 90% of situations cops deal with. And those situations are even worse now with their hands tied and feeling that they can't do anything without some idiot with an iPhone taking 8 seconds of footage and purposely painting the cops in a bad light. We've allowed that to happen.
 
She's a teenage girl. If he can't handle that situation without throwing a desk then he isn't qualified to be a police officer. Period.


No he shouldnt throw the desk. But u cant easily remove a teenage girl from a school desk against her will. Its gonna get ugly. Wait til u try to put a pissed off 5 year old in a bath tub.
 
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Well i cant help but think that regardless of how shes removed, when time comes to forcibly remove her from the desk, that any attempt to do so is gonna look ugly and confrontational and any video of that action will be met with the same reaction. So basically he did nothing wrong except do it with a bad temper. I dont see how u remove her from the desk without a big struggle that would prob result in the desk getting flipped at some point. Seems like a nightmare scenario for teachers and the cops to deal with.
And, now, regardless, it "looks" bad. And, it's been recorded and the FBI is in on it. It's not going well from any standpoint.
 
Ok, so you were speculating. Got it.



It makes a difference to provide context. I know you have confidence in your ability to speculatel, but I am sure that you don't know what it is like to not be able to go to a school because of the color of your skin.



So cops in the 60s didn't need to throw Rosa Parks around to get her to move from her seat, but this guy needed to sling this kid around? Gotcha.



If the police were good and here to help us, then this shit wouldn't be going on. But it does. Every day. To all sorts of people. You have had the good fortune to not encounter police misconduct. I hope it continues for you.

The message should absolutely be that the cops are suspect. It should also be to be very respectful and do what the cop asks, up to the point where he oversteps his bounds. Then continue to be respectful but don't be intimidated or give up your rights.



And sometimes people are angry and they have a right to be. Just because you don't see it does not mean the anger is not warranted. That's not to say that playing the victim is a good idea, ever, because it's not. But sometimes people are actually legitimate victims.



I'm not excusing society's bad behavior. But the cop screwed it all up- if he had kept his cool, then this girl would not have been the victim. Now she is.

If someone is stupid enough to be disrespectful to a cop, then that is their problem. However and even more importantly, cops do not have the right to overreact just because the cops perceive that someone disrespected their authority or even them personally. If a cop can't figure this simple fact out, then perhaps he shouldn't be a cop at all.


^what you said^

What I read: blah, blah, blah,...cops are bad, yada, yada, yada.

So nothing has changed except you and I both just wasted the last 30 minutes discussing it.
 
No he shouldnt throw the desk.

Glad we're in agreement.

But he did throw the desk. He didn't take a better alternative that might still have been painted in an ugly light. I respect the fact that it would probably get ugly. But he threw the damn desk because he lost his temper and got violent with her. Which we agree he shouldn't have. So what should the consequences be?
 
Actually if i'm that cop, i would challenge anyone criticizing me to demonstrate prying a teenage girl out of her school desk against her will and do it in a mannner that looks professional and doesnt harm the girl.
 
^what you said^

What I heard: blah, blah, blah,...cops are bad, yada, yada, yada.

So nothing has changed except you and I both just wasted the last 30 minutes discussing it.

That's your problem right there. You live in your own bubble, and everyone who disagrees with you is a "nitwit liberal." People present valid arguments, but because they don't fit your narrative, all you hear is blah blah blah. You should take a social psychology class. It'll help out with some of those biases you have.
 
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Glad we're in agreement.

But he did throw the desk. He didn't take a better alternative that might still have been painted in an ugly light. I respect the fact that it would probably get ugly. But he threw the damn desk because he lost his temper and got violent with her. Which we agree he shouldn't have. So what should the consequences be?

He lost his temper? How do you know he lost his temper? Maybe he's just strong as shit and it was easy for him to flip a desk over with a punk kid clinging to it? What evidence is there of him losing his temper? He wasn't yelling at her or saying anything he shouldn't have. At least I didn't pick up any of that from the video.
 
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^what you said^

What I read: blah, blah, blah,...cops are bad, yada, yada, yada.

So nothing has changed except you and I both just wasted the last 30 minutes discussing it.

Pretty much. I will agree to disagree if you admit you are wrong.
 
Actually if i'm that cop, i would challenge anyone criticizing me to demonstrate prying a teenage girl out of her school desk against her will and do it in a mannner that looks professional and doesnt harm the girl.

Its not about looking professional. We've already established that it isn't going to be pretty. He threw the damn desk. I mean in one post you admit he was wrong, and in the next you're backing him. This is the damn problem. If a cop is in the wrong, he shouldn't be immune from the same standards we hold ordinary citizens to.
 
Glad we're in agreement.

But he did throw the desk. He didn't take a better alternative that might still have been painted in an ugly light. I respect the fact that it would probably get ugly. But he threw the damn desk because he lost his temper and got violent with her. Which we agree he shouldn't have. So what should the consequences be?

Not sure what the policy is. Thats why i asked the teachers to weigh in.
 
That's your problem right there. You live in your own bubble, and everyone who disagrees with you is a "nitwit liberal." People present valid arguments, but because they don't fit your narrative, all you hear is blah blah blah. You should take a social psychology class. It'll help out with some of those biases you have.

You don't get to decide what a valid argument is to me. As far as taking class, I finished school. Now I'm a working professional paying taxes and living in the real world which offers twice the education you're currently getting. I'm still holding out hope that after your schooling and music career is done that you'll get that real world education.

Furthermore, 71 and I clearly disagree about this. He's not an idiot liberal. He's just misguided on this one particular issue. And if I had to bet, it's because he was mistreated by a cop...once. If he chooses to let that effect his entire outlook on it, so be it. But no, that doesn't resonate with me and I'm not going to change my thoughts on the action of one cop that did something wrong to a guy I don't really know. All I have to go on is the overwhelming number of positive experiences I've had with police.
 
Its not about looking professional. We've already established that it isn't going to be pretty. He threw the damn desk. I mean in one post you admit he was wrong, and in the next you're backing him. This is the damn problem. If a cop is in the wrong, he shouldn't be immune from the same standards we hold ordinary citizens to.

Its a gray world out there unc. Throwing a desk to remove the girl vs yanking her out if it? I dunno.
 
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