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THUG who killed NYPD officer.....

tazki said:
It kills me how you make statements like they are a fact and this one is100% incorrect. Obey the law and you will never deal with the police. They do protect the community every single day. Let them go on vacation for a month and see what happens. No wonder this country is so screwed up with people that hold your views.
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Tell that to the guy who just got killed by a plain clothes officer for the crime of standing next to his broken down vehicle with a CWP.

Also, it worries me that people willingly use the same argument that every single authoritarian regime in human history has used. "Don't break the law, and police wont mess with you..." I would think conservatives of all people would understand how stupid this is. Legality does not always equate to morality. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean its wrong, and it certainly doesn't give a cop the right to shoot you. You can carry on believing that every single time a cop shoots someone, that it was justified, but you're living a delusion.

And even when someone is breaking the law, that doesn't mean their civil rights go out the window. Cops still have rules that they are supposed to play by, but so long as they are investigated by their own kind, they will never be accountable in any way.

You think the first priority of cops is to protect the community? Lol that's hilarious. How do you explain the murder clearing rate plummeting, in spite of the development of forensic technology? Meanwhile the rates of arrest for low level drug possession continue to rise. Maybe its got something to do with picking the low hanging fruit that keeps the money flowing?...
 
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Well the truth lies somewhere between taz and uncboy's positions imo. I've witnessed the "us vs them" mentality that cops can have. I also personally know cops who sincerely serve the community. A degree of dishonesty and human frailty is unavoidable. But i cant get on board with the blacklivesmatter claim that there is some sort of systemic conspiracy in all police depts to shoot black males whenever possible.
 
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uncboy10 said:
GSD, you have this issue dead backwards.

Ask the same question to citizens, about whether they felt more or less threatened by police and see how many would say they feel more threatened by police officers now, than under Reagan. I don't think you would like the answer.
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You're the one that has it backwards. I think we both can agree that the benefit of the doubt has to be given to one of the two groups - the people or law enforcement. You and I simply disagree on which should receive that benefit of the doubt. You think that citizens are inherently good and that the minority of criminals shouldn't influence the way we see it. I think that the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers are good people and the very small minority of crooked cops shouldn't influence our views on law enforcement.

As to the second part of your quoted response above, actually, you'll probably hate hearing this but I would accept that challenge and even wage money on the fact that the people I know; the people I would ask, would definitely not feel they are threatened in any way by law enforcement. Now, you may ask another population of people that would feel threatened. But I think what we would glean from that exercise is that working professionals that are following the law, paying taxes and making a contribution to society would not feel threatened by police. Whereas non-working citizens that don't pay taxes, have little investment in the country and either deal in criminal activity or are close to those that deal in criminal activity would feel as if they are targeted by law enforcement. But you let me know if you want to conduct this experiment and even lay some dough on it.

uncboy10 said:
And considering violence towards police is the basically the lowest its been in 50 years, any perceived threat felt by police officers has more to do with delusions like yours than any actual threat. I don't care what police officers FEEL. There are statistics to prove that less police officers are being killed by citizens now than under Reagan. So maybe they should just do a little research and find out they are much safer now than they were under Reagan.
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First of all, I need to see a link of where you found "violence towards police to be the lowest it's been in 50 years". But even after that, we'd need to have a conversation as to the varying degrees of "violence towards police". Because I can pretty much bet that the number of police that are getting shot and killed while minding their own business is up significantly. 50 years ago police officers weren't getting assassinated walking out to their cars in the morning to go to work.

Secondly, your response of "I don't care how officers feel" is not only insensitive but shortsighted and retarded. How officers feel is the only thing that matters. If they don't feel safe - whether threats are real or perceived - then they will be more likely to act hastily. It is the government's job to make police feel safe and supported. That starts at the top. If B.O. had the back of police and put a stop to this ridiculous assault on law enforcement, they may not have such itchy trigger fingers.

You keep harping on the accountability of law enforcement while excusing terror groups such as Black Lives Matter supporters calling for the deaths of police officers. Have you gone mad? How anyone can attempt to turn the tables and say that our police forces are in the wrong is beyond me. You're falling for exactly what BLM movements seek - to weaken and divide us and to create a lawless society.

I don't know what they're teaching you in school but I'd ask for my money back if I were you. Because an education in "real life" is one thing you are not getting. But we'll probably end our correspondence on this issue here. Because I'm starting to get angry and simply at a loss for words on how you and any other liberal idiot can continue to excuse a law breaking culture.
 
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That's your problem right there. You're living in a bubble. I'm sure the people who think like you agree with you. That doesn't prove anything at all.

Here's your link. Lowest in 45 years, yet the media coverage has spiked. Faux news is playing people like usual

http://www.psmag.com/books-and-cult...-you-wouldnt-know-that-from-watching-the-news

We have laws in this country that state you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Its pretty clear on the benefit of the doubt thing. This is why police officers should be wearing body cameras, and should automatically be sentenced to a year in prison for tampering with the footage in the event of a fatal shooting. The psychology of power has been well studied. Its not a secret that people abuse power when it is granted to them. And right now a cop can shoot someone and be back out on duty within 48 hours, regardless of whether or not the shooting was justified. Checks and balances are important. There are neither for police officers.

Dont tell me who I give a pass to. We're discussing police right now, not the Black Lives Matter group. That's a total cop out (pun intended) to try and change the subject. I'm not making any assumptions about anyone being good. I just want to restore the justice part to the criminal justice system. People are getting shot in this country for petty crimes, and no crimes at all on a regular basis.

You equate any criticism of police to "excusing a law breaking culture." I find that a bit amusing if I'm being honest.
 
heelmanwilm said:
Well the truth lies somewhere between taz and uncboy's positions imo. I've witnessed the "us vs them" mentality that cops can have. I also personally know cops who sincerely serve the community. A degree of dishonesty and human frailty is unavoidable. But i cant get on board with the blacklivesmatter claim that there is some sort of systemic conspiracy in all police depts to shoot black males whenever possible.
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Well I'm not saying that all cops are bad. Just to be clear. There are definitely good cops out there. I'm not denying that.
 
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strummingram said:
tumblr_inline_nkz5y7cQ7F1rc3nvc.gif


Man... some of you guys are pathologically afraid of a figment of your imagination.
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Really... This looks like Strum having a huge laugh over the size of his alter-ego 'boys' wanger...
 
gunslingerdick said:
You're the one that has it backwards. I think we both can agree that the benefit of the doubt has to be given to one of the two groups - the people or law enforcement. You and I simply disagree on which should receive that benefit of the doubt. You think that citizens are inherently good and that the minority of criminals shouldn't influence the way we see it. I think that the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers are good people and the very small minority of crooked cops shouldn't influence our views on law enforcement.

As to the second part of your quoted response above, actually, you'll probably hate hearing this but I would accept that challenge and even wage money on the fact that the people I know; the people I would ask, would definitely not feel they are threatened in any way by law enforcement. Now, you may ask another population of people that would feel threatened. But I think what we would glean from that exercise is that working professionals that are following the law, paying taxes and making a contribution to society would not feel threatened by police. Whereas non-working citizens that don't pay taxes, have little investment in the country and either deal in criminal activity or are close to those that deal in criminal activity would feel as if they are targeted by law enforcement. But you let me know if you want to conduct this experiment and even lay some dough on it.



First of all, I need to see a link of where you found "violence towards police to be the lowest it's been in 50 years". But even after that, we'd need to have a conversation as to the varying degrees of "violence towards police". Because I can pretty much bet that the number of police that are getting shot and killed while minding their own business is up significantly. 50 years ago police officers weren't getting assassinated walking out to their cars in the morning to go to work.

Secondly, your response of "I don't care how officers feel" is not only insensitive but shortsighted and retarded. How officers feel is the only thing that matters. If they don't feel safe - whether threats are real or perceived - then they will be more likely to act hastily. It is the government's job to make police feel safe and supported. That starts at the top. If B.O. had the back of police and put a stop to this ridiculous assault on law enforcement, they may not have such itchy trigger fingers.

You keep harping on the accountability of law enforcement while excusing terror groups such as Black Lives Matter supporters calling for the deaths of police officers. Have you gone mad? How anyone can attempt to turn the tables and say that our police forces are in the wrong is beyond me. You're falling for exactly what BLM movements seek - to weaken and divide us and to create a lawless society.

I don't know what they're teaching you in school but I'd ask for my money back if I were you. Because an education in "real life" is one thing you are not getting. But we'll probably end our correspondence on this issue here. Because I'm starting to get angry and simply at a loss for words on how you and any other liberal idiot can continue to excuse a law breaking culture.
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Maybe Black Lives will Matter when Black Crime Matters to Blacks and they start doing something about it. Cops spend most of their time in black neighborhoods battling black crime. Those are the facts, and they are not in dispute.
 
Its rather interesting that a lot of us grew up enjoying tv shows that glorified cops who went too far on a regular basis. Remember starsky and hutch? Baretta? kojak? Lol. There were usually multiple civil rights violations in the dern opening credits!
 
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My experiences and observations of cops are far more negative than positive, and there are a lot more than just some CHPD dick.

Call a cop when you need one, but never, ever trust one for any reason.
 
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UNC71-00 said:
My experiences and observations of cops are far more negative than positive, and there are a lot more than just some CHPD dick.

Call a cop when you need one, but never, ever trust one for any reason.
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Different here 71. Encountered them many times, always treated them with the respect they deserve and never one problem.
 
tazki said:
Different here 71. Encountered them many times, always treated them with the respect they deserve and never one problem.
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I too have never been disrespectful to a cop and the vast majority of times they have been complete assholes.
 
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UNC71-00 said:
My experiences and observations of cops are far more negative than positive, and there are a lot more than just some CHPD dick.

Call a cop when you need one, but never, ever trust one for any reason.
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Same here. And, they really hate it when you know your legal rights if they decide to pull you over.
 
strummingram said:
Same here. And, they really hate it when you know your legal rights if they decide to pull you over.
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I bet they take that as a sign of disrespect- amirite? Heaven forbid you not let the cop have his way.
 
UNC71-00 said:
My experiences and observations of cops are far more negative than positive, and there are a lot more than just some CHPD dick.

Call a cop when you need one, but never, ever trust one for any reason.
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I have close relationships with several L.E.Os and know a dozen more. Of course my interaction with all of them has been nothing but positive. I had several run-ins with the law throughout my younger years because of my behavior or poor decision making (I'd be willing to bet significantly more than most everyone here) and never did I feel I was treated unfairly or poorly.

Maybe you, strum and uncboy just look like assholes. That seems reasonable.
 
UNC71-00 said:
My experiences and observations of cops are far more negative than positive, and there are a lot more than just some CHPD dick.

Call a cop when you need one, but never, ever trust one for any reason.
Click to expand...

I have close relationships with several L.E.Os and know a dozen more. Of course my interaction with all of them has been nothing but positive. I had several run-ins with the law throughout my younger years because of my behavior or poor decision making (I'd be willing to bet significantly more than most everyone here) and never did I feel I was treated unfairly or poorly.

Maybe you, strum and uncboy just look like assholes. That seems reasonable.
 
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tazki said:
lol yea that's a good way to get respect. Start babbling about legal rights. Joke
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Were you born completely subjugated, or did you aspire to it?

Babbling about legal rights? Yeah, why pay any attention to them? It's only what makes us free human beings in any sense. That's part of the impetus for this entire discussion.
 
gunslingerdick said:
I have close relationships with several L.E.Os and know a dozen more. Of course my interaction with all of them has been nothing but positive. I had several run-ins with the law throughout my younger years because of my behavior or poor decision making (I'd be willing to bet significantly more than most everyone here) and never did I feel I was treated unfairly or poorly.

Maybe you, strum and uncboy just look like assholes. That seems reasonable.
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Yeah... a citizen knowing their civil rights... that's got asshole written all over it, to you, doesn't it? I'll wear it proudly.

It's a real bite-in-the-ass when someone keeps them honest and not tremble at their authority. I'm not disrespecting them, but I'm not acting inferior to them because they have a badge. Cops can legally lie to you. It's just good sense to know that you don't allow that.
 
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I have had a number of run ins with the police. Most of the time they have been very cool. I had one instance in Nashville where one wasn't and I went at him a little. He was most definitely in the wrong and threw me out of a concert when I finally had enough and started mouthing to him. I had some buddies with me pretty scared I was going to jail I think, haha. Still, most of my experiences have been really positive. I know a lot of them and all the ones I know are good people for sure.
 
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heelmanwilm said:
Okay, so the student is on her phone in class, when busted she refuses to hand it over per school policy. Then she refuses to obey the officer andnleave her seat.

What would be an appropriate response?
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I dunno... what would be an appropriate response?
 
strummingram said:
South Carolina officer throws student in classroom
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Ok, I'll explain how this went down.

The girl was on the phone. She was asked to put the phone away. She did not comply. Then she was asked to leave the room. She refused. At that point, the teacher called the resource officer to come escort her out of class. This is most likely how the correspondence between the student and the officer then went:

Officer: "I need you to get up out of your seat and leave the classroom with me."
Student: "I ain't going nowhere with you."
Officer: "If you don't get up and leave voluntarily, I'll have to physically help you leave the room."
Student: "You better not put your f*ckin' hands on me. Sh*t,..."
Officer: "This is your last opportunity to leave on your own or you will be physically removed and arrested."
Student: "No, I'm gonna stay right here,...I ain't botherin' nobody. You ain't puttin' your hands on me.
*body slam*

This scenario speaks to the exact point I'm making. 50 years ago, a child would have never even thought about disobeying a police officer. That was an absurd notion. You did what you were told...or you suffered the consequences. If a kid was slammed to the ground for disobeying a police officer, anyone that saw it happen would have said, "well, that kid shouldn't have disobeyed the police officer." 50 years ago, the mom of the kid wouldn't have even been mad about the kid being slammed to the ground by the police officer and in fact, she would have been more embarrassed that her kid wasn't following directions and that her kid publicly disrespected a police officer. But now, it's hip to challenge authority. It's the in thing to do because there was this big teddy bear in Ferguson MO that was shot by a cop with his hands up. Therefore, many kids are taught to hate cops and to disrespect them. And the leaders of our country stand by and watch it happen instead of reinforcing the laws in this country and the need to respect the authority we've given to those serving us.

Now with all that said, of course the video shows that the officer used excessive force. But what are the options? They have to sit around and wait on the kid to leave voluntarily? So the rest of the class has their time wasted because one punk kid doesn't want to follow directions? I'm sure that's what many want. Let's all cater to the angry kid because she probably didn't get enough breakfast this morning or something terrible is going on in her home...poor little kid.
 
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heelmanwilm said:
Really i dont know. Is physical force appropriate? Clear the classroom and call the parents? Expulsion?
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Well, I don't know EXACTLY what took place before the video started, but, I find it hard to believe that flipping her and the desk over and dragging her out of the classroom was the best choice. Again, I'll emphasize, I don't know the student's back-story. She's possibly (probably?) a student who is habitually disobedient. But, the cop has a questionable past as well. Resorting to that level of violence tells me something is wrong, somewhere.
 
heelmanwilm said:
Clear the classroom and call the parents?
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Clear the classroom? I'm sure that's what Obama will say about it (because you know he won't miss an opportunity to grandstand on this poor little black girl being beaten up by a white cop). Yeah, that makes sense,...let's inconvenience the rest of the class because this kid wants to act like an asshole.

heelmanwilm said:
Expulsion?
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Are you kidding? That's the last thing they'll do. That kid could have pulled a gun and pistol whipped the cop in the head and that kid wouldn't be expelled. And I don't think I need to explain why. You know why. I know why. But I'm going to guess that there are certain posters here that will play dumb.
 
gunslingerdick said:
Clear the classroom? I'm sure that's what Obama will say about it (because you know he won't miss an opportunity to grandstand on this poor little black girl being beaten up by a white cop). Yeah, that makes sense,...let's inconvenience the rest of the class because this kid wants to act like an asshole.



Are you kidding? That's the last thing they'll do. That kid could have pulled a gun and pistol whipped the cop in the head and that kid wouldn't be expelled. And I don't think I need to explain why. You know why. I know why. But I'm going to guess that there are certain posters here that will play dumb.
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Way to show that you're perfectly willing to go full-blown, right-wing, embellish-the-hell-out-of-this crazy. Good for you. I'd be shocked if you displayed anything else.

I'm sure you're right. If the kid had wielded a pistol, she would have been made class president. Absolutely.
 
strummingram said:
Way to show that you're perfectly willing to go full-blown, right-wing, embellish-the-hell-out-of-this crazy. Good for you. I'd be shocked if you displayed anything else.

I'm sure you're right. If the kid had wielded a pistol, she would have been made class president. Absolutely.
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I was kind of hoping that your anti-police rhetoric was because you were once given the Rodney King treatment. Here's to hoping.
 
gunslingerdick said:
I was kind of hoping that your anti-police rhetoric was because you were once given the Rodney King treatment. Here's to hoping.
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"Anti-police..." that's cute. Wrong, but cute. I've never been roughed-up by a cop. I've never been cited or reprimanded by the police when I wasn't absolutely at fault. I have been unnecessarily hassled by cops when I was doing NOTHING wrong, however. And, I've seen it happen dozens of times. I know at least a dozen cops who carry a chip from being maligned in school, or left-out, or some other insecurity, and they use their badge and state-given power to compensate. It's not fair to the cops who are genuinely trying to do their job and not exploit their status, but that's what happens. I'm not anti-police at all. But, when I see something that i consider excessive, or flat-out wrong, I'm going to have an opinion.

This cop's behavior made this a national story. The cop's behavior is what drew attention to this event. The kid was being disobedient, that's obvious. But, it requires a policeman doing THAT to correct it? Hell no!
 
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gunslingerdick said:
Right on cue. Thanks strum, I knew I could count on you.
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Nowhere near as dumb as blaming the President for this crap. President's do dumb things daily... they're human beings. But, blaming them for public behavior is not just dumb, it's blindly dumb. This isn't the result of Barack Obama being president and saying things at a podium. We, as a society, have allowed our domestic conditions to get the way they are. We did it. Not some talking suit in DC. We take extreme, unbalanced stances on issues here and abroad and lack empathy and the inherent desire to treat others as we wish to be treated. Life is simple. Blaming other people is the biggest cop-out of all.
 
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gunslingerdick said:
Ok, I'll explain how this went down.

The girl was on the phone. She was asked to put the phone away. She did not comply. Then she was asked to leave the room. She refused. At that point, the teacher called the resource officer to come escort her out of class. This is most likely how the correspondence between the student and the officer then went:

Officer: "I need you to get up out of your seat and leave the classroom with me."
Student: "I ain't going nowhere with you."
Officer: "If you don't get up and leave voluntarily, I'll have to physically help you leave the room."
Student: "You better not put your f*ckin' hands on me. Sh*t,..."
Officer: "This is your last opportunity to leave on your own or you will be physically removed and arrested."
Student: "No, I'm gonna stay right here,...I ain't botherin' nobody. You ain't puttin' your hands on me.
*body slam*
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You have a link to the way this went down, or is this speculation?

gunslingerdick said:
This scenario speaks to the exact point I'm making. 50 years ago, a child would have never even thought about disobeying a police officer. That was an absurd notion. You did what you were told...or you suffered the consequences. If a kid was slammed to the ground for disobeying a police officer, anyone that saw it happen would have said, "well, that kid shouldn't have disobeyed the police officer." 50 years ago, the mom of the kid wouldn't have even been mad about the kid being slammed to the ground by the police officer and in fact, she would have been more embarrassed that her kid wasn't following directions and that her kid publicly disrespected a police officer. But now, it's hip to challenge authority. It's the in thing to do because there was this big teddy bear in Ferguson MO that was shot by a cop with his hands up. Therefore, many kids are taught to hate cops and to disrespect them. And the leaders of our country stand by and watch it happen instead of reinforcing the laws in this country and the need to respect the authority we've given to those serving us.
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50 years ago, that child would have been in a different school in Columbia SC.

You know who else didn't get up from her seat when the police told her to? Rosa Parks. And they arrested her, in a time where police violence against blacks was probably acceptable. Yet they found a way to arrest Rosa Parks without throwing her to the ground and cuffing her.

You know why it's hip to challenge authority? Because many of us have seen plenty of episodes of police misconduct. Hell, it's hard to have lived a more privileged life than me and I have seen cops act maliciously plenty of times. I can't imagine how much more I would have seen it if I lived in underprivileged circumstances. And all that being said, I would never challenge police in this manner. But I can also afford to pay a good lawyer if I need one.

Sometimes people have rage that stays down until a spark. Yes, I agree that Michael Brown was a bullshit spark, but at this point, it doesn't matter.

Do you think that cop would have done what he did to that kid if he had realized or thought about being on tape? Nope, no way. What should have happened? I suppose that when she was asked to get up, and didn't, the principal should have been called to expel her on the spot. At that point, she could have been told she was no longer a student and was trespassing and that she would be forcibly removed from grounds and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, if necessary. At that point, you can then pick her up and cuff her if she refuses to cooperate.
 
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I mean, the cop's actions were overboard. Clearing the class probably wasn't an option because she wasn't violent. Generally we only clear classrooms when a student is violent or destructive. Then if they are a danger to themselves or others someone deals with it in a different manner. I think he could have taken her out of class without throwing her down. All of those in the classrooms have a right to learn and you can't just let her impede everyone's learning. So something needed to be done. It just could have been done differently IMO. I've done enough restraining (and moving) in my time to know there are other ways he could have gone about this.
 
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