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Trump & Hillary

vengeful? I have no desire to do anything to them. I simply have opinions about them just like everyone else. We are allowed to have those last time I checked. I would never, ever do anything to harm them or wish that on them. Just because you don't agree with someone or even like the things they do, does not mean you cannot simply have an opinion about it and if you are face to face with them discuss the issue or whatever. You cannot force anyone to do anything against their will. I am only responsible for MY actions and cannot control theirs but I do not have to like it or be in favor of it or anything else.

Where did I say anything about the "red team" harming the "blue team" or wishing any ill will upon the blue team? And obviously people are allowed to have opinions, and the opinion in my example was to side with the red team because the blue team was being so aggressive about their stance - not physically harming them or whatever other actions you tried to insert into my example.
 
oooh-sick-burn.gif
I can't actually see this image at work, but according to the URL it's a pic of Emma Stone saying burn. Is that correct? If it is can someone tell me how someone doesn't know what burn means in that context? Also, I find Emma Stone to be extremely attractive.
 
vengeful? I have no desire to do anything to them. I simply have opinions about them just like everyone else. We are allowed to have those last time I checked. I would never, ever do anything to harm them or wish that on them. Just because you don't agree with someone or even like the things they do, does not mean you cannot simply have an opinion about it and if you are face to face with them discuss the issue or whatever. You cannot force anyone to do anything against their will. I am only responsible for MY actions and cannot control theirs but I do not have to like it or be in favor of it or anything else.

So how were the red shirts vengeful towards the blue shirts?
 
Where did I say anything about the "red team" harming the "blue team" or wishing any ill will upon the blue team? And obviously people are allowed to have opinions, and the opinion in my example was to side with the red team because the blue team was being so aggressive about their stance - not physically harming them or whatever other actions you tried to insert into my example.

You didn't say anything about it- she did. But she is accusing you of having said it.

This is why it is absolutely pointless to argue with a woman, and especially one as bat crap crazy as Chick.
 
It sounds to me like neither of you has much faith in mankind. And it sounds like you don't have any faith in America or Americans. And that's a shame because it's still, even in it's current diminished state, the best country in the world. I grew up in a time when people were unabashedly proud to be American. Now there seems to be very little sense of nationalism as our schools teach our young men and women that America is a bad country. And that is a shame because despite our issues, America is still the land of opportunity. That's why so many people are immigrating here, legally and illegally. Personally, I still love America.
I have no more or less "faith in America" than anywhere else in the world. I'm actually more optimistic now than at any point in my life. I simply see it through a totally different lens than you see it.

As far as pride; "Pride" is not something I feel very compelled to instill in myself. Pride is- to quote one of the religions- "one of the 7 Deadly Sins." Pride is not a virtue that I hold in very high regard. Pride forces your ego to rule over you more often than not.

I haven't implied that where I live is not a great place TO LIVE. It is, of course. It's awesome! But, I don't measure that greatness by political standards, using people who are literally bought-off by corporate entities in order to appreciate it's greatness. I love the country. I'm just not fond of it's governing practices. What a waste of life that would be. Appreciating your home and your life experience based on how many wars some government claims to win, or how much land it acquires? No one "owns the land." The world belongs to everyone. I don't see an Iranian as being inferior to an American. God tells me that we're neither of those things anyway. We're brothers. We're children of God.

If you must appraoch this politically, then at least be honest about it. If you refuse to accept that your national government is bought-off, that's your choice. That doesn't make me have less faith in humanity. It just points specifically to having no faith in POLITICIANS! I don't see government and religion as the pathways to spiritual enlightenment. That doesn't mean I lack faith. It just means I don't subscribe to religions and I don't PUT MY FAITH in politicians and their political motives. These people are blatant liars! If acknowledging that makes me seem like I have "less faith in mankind" then I would question how you define and perceive "Mankind." Our priorities are just different.
 
I believe the term "Faux" began years ago because it was discovered that it was simply an entertainment network disguised as a news network initially and also because of Murdoch owning it and all the trash rags he runs.
I think the Communist New Network, the Communist Broadcasting System, the Notional Broadcasting for Communists, the Atheist Broadcasting for Communists, the Proletariat Broadcasting System, MSDNC vastly outnumber one meager FOXNEWS network; yet, FOXNEWS has more viewers than all other Communist cable news networks combined. All this while all the other communist networks and the current administration of communists are doing their best to marginalize FOXNEWS... Hmmmmmm...
 
Very well said, and pretty much mirrors my view on it. Liberals would get a lot more accomplished if they could try to see the other side of issues, and address counterpoints maturely, as opposed to screaming "You're a racist, bigoted, nazi, zealot that is stuck in the 19th century and can't adapt to the times!" every time they get the slightest bit of pushback on their agenda.
Exactly. Liberals have a hard time debating facts because most facts don't support their agenda. So they resort to name-calling. If you criticize Obama, you're a racist. If you criticize Hillary, you're a sexist. If you support secure borders, you're a xenophobe, etc... ad nauseum. It is another tactic used to divide people along ethnic, religious, sexual, and cultural lines.
 
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And, I'm really sorry to have to inform you guys, but there is no such thing as a Liberal, and there is no such thing as a Conservative. They are figments of OUR imagination. Everyone is some of both.
 
I have no more or less "faith in America" than anywhere else in the world. I'm actually more optimistic now than at any point in my life.I simply see it through a totally different lens than you see it.
Truer words have never been spoken.

As far as pride; "Pride" is not something I feel very compelled to instill in myself. Pride is- to quote one of the religions- "one of the 7 Deadly Sins." Pride is not a virtue that I hold in very high regard. Pride forces your ego to rule over you more often than not.
Pride isn't something you "instill in yourself", it's something you feel. You can have pride in a person, an accomplishment, a country, any number of things. Just like you can be ashamed of a person, a deed, or a country.

I haven't implied that where I live is not a great place TO LIVE. It is, of course. It's awesome! But, I don't measure that greatness by political standards, using people who are literally bought-off by corporate entities in order to appreciate it's greatness. I love the country. I'm just not fond of it's governing practices. What a waste of life that would be. Appreciating your home and your life experience based on how many wars some government claims to win, or how much land it acquires? No one "owns the land." The world belongs to everyone. I don't see an Iranian as being inferior to an American. God tells me that we're neither of those things anyway. We're brothers. We're children of God.

Where in the world did this come from? I literally don't know anyone who measures the greatness of America by those standards. It's weird that you would even say that.

If you must appraoch this politically, then at least be honest about it. If you refuse to accept that your national government is bought-off, that's your choice. That doesn't make me have less faith in humanity. It just points specifically to having no faith in POLITICIANS! I don't see government and religion as the pathways to spiritual enlightenment. That doesn't mean I lack faith. It just means I don't subscribe to religions and I don't PUT MY FAITH in politicians and their political motives. These people are blatant liars! If acknowledging that makes me seem like I have "less faith in mankind" then I would question how you define and perceive "Mankind." Our priorities are just different.
Do you know anyone who actually trusts politicians, anywhere in the world? Because I certainly don't. On this we can agree, one of the few things we'll agree on I'm afraid. It's almost as if you and I live in different worlds.
 
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Where did I say anything about the "red team" harming the "blue team" or wishing any ill will upon the blue team? And obviously people are allowed to have opinions, and the opinion in my example was to side with the red team because the blue team was being so aggressive about their stance - not physically harming them or whatever other actions you tried to insert into my example.

I guess I misinterpreted your saying "wouldn't you want to stick it to them?" incorrectly. I would not lean away from my initial thought. The most "harmful" thing I would do is argue with them or THINK they are idiots and it would end at that.
 
Pride isn't something you "instill in yourself", it's something you feel. You can have pride in a person, an accomplishment, a country, any number of things. Just like you can be ashamed of a person, a deed, or a country.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/emotions/pride.htm

Where in the world did this come from? I literally don't know anyone who measures the greatness of America by those standards. It's weird that you would even say that.

I doubt very many are willing to openly ADMIT that. But, that's not my problem. Especially when you make them aware of it in those terms.

Do you know anyone who actually trusts politicians, anywhere in the world? Because I certainly don't.
Then I must have misunderstood your participation in the entire thread about who CAN be trusted and who is better-suited for these offices? If you don't trust any of them, then why would you ever call-out some as better than others? Why in the world would you vote for them??? You don't trust them, but you will let them hold the office? Conservatives are good, Liberals are bad- is the more simplistic idea that is being conveyed.
 
And, I'm really sorry to have to inform you guys, but there is no such thing as a Liberal, and there is no such thing as a Conservative. They are figments of OUR imagination. Everyone is some of both.

I agree that there might not be people out there that are 100% Liberal on every single issue and will never believe anything that's not liberal, and same for conservative. But the general public has deemed it acceptable to call someone that believes in a majority of liberal ideas a liberal, and a majority of conservative ideas, a conservative. It's an expression that gets its point across without having to say that person A agrees with 73.2135% of liberal ideas, 21.43908% of conservative ideas, and in the remaining 5% or so doesn't align with either idea. In that case since they're majority liberal leaning - they're referred to as "Liberal" for ease of reference. That obviously doesn't mean that even though they're a liberal, that they can't have some conservative view points as well.

Just because you, for whatever reason, don't want to use the terminology - doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense.
 
I agree that there might not be people out there that are 100% Liberal on every single issue and will never believe anything that's not liberal, and same for conservative. But the general public has deemed it acceptable to call someone that believes in a majority of liberal ideas a liberal, and a majority of conservative ideas, a conservative. It's an expression that gets its point across without having to say that person A agrees with 73.2135% of liberal ideas, 21.43908% of conservative ideas, and in the remaining 5% or so doesn't align with either idea. In that case since they're majority liberal leaning - they're referred to as "Liberal" for ease of reference. That obviously doesn't mean that even though they're a liberal, that they can't have some conservative view points as well.

Just because you, for whatever reason, don't want to use the terminology - doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense.
"Making sense" is relative.

Everyone has both attitudes in them, and each of us are one or the other, given the circumstance. We're never always one or the other. I agree that you can have a probability factor. If you have 9 issues, you'll be more of one than the other. But, where I think it gets very dangerous, and gets divisive and does the most harm, is when people start referring to themselves, and others, as ONLY Liberal or Conservative. Before long, they are fixated on just the one and never the other. Then, they basically are tricking themselves into believing that they're never the other at all, and anyone who is the other, is someone to be threatened by. Then you are even prone to denying your own instinct because you have such an aversion to what you've created to be, what amounts to, an "enemy."
 
"Making sense" is relative.

Of course it's relative - things don't make sense to people that don't understand them, so it's a relative notion. But when something "makes sense" to 95%+ of the population, it starts to become an absolute for all intents and purposes.

But, where I think it gets very dangerous, and gets divisive and does the most harm, is when people start referring to themselves, and others, as ONLY Liberal or Conservative. Before long, they are fixated on just the one and never the other. Then, they basically are tricking themselves into believing that they're never the other at all, and anyone who is the other, is someone to be threatened by. Then you are even prone to denying your own instinct because you have such an aversion to what you've created to be, what amounts to, an "enemy."

Yes, people who are stuck in their ways and can't listen to opposing view points are definitely harmful and close-minded. But just because there are people out there who think like that doesn't mean we should scrap the descriptive categories that (almost) everyone can understand.
 
And, I'm really sorry to have to inform you guys, but there is no such thing as a Liberal, and there is no such thing as a Conservative. They are figments of OUR imagination. Everyone is some of both.

Yes, everyone is some of both, but it is not defined by absolutes, rather by tendencies. And when defined by tendencies, there are definitely such things as Liberals and Conservatives.

ETA- Hark beat me to it.
 
Of course it's relative - things don't make sense to people that don't understand them, so it's a relative notion. But when something "makes sense" to 95%+ of the population, it starts to become an absolute for all intents and purposes.



Yes, people who are stuck in their ways and can't listen to opposing view points are definitely harmful and close-minded. But just because there are people out there who think like that doesn't mean we should scrap the descriptive categories that (almost) everyone can understand.
Well, like I've said before (or tried to convey), I can't control what "We" do. I can only control, or directly affect, what I do. When you generalize, you're opening up yourself to mistakes... almost guaranteeing a mistake on some level. I'm just trying to point-out that adhering to that is causing problems. I'm beginning to wonder if too many are generalizing. When you call yourself a conservative, or liberal, I think you're generalizing. When you call other people "conservatives" or "liberals", you're generalizing. I realize it's a habit, and I realize it's the accepted way to do it. I just don't know if it's serving us in a positive way to keep doing that. But, I don't expect it to change.
 
Yes, everyone is some of both, but it is not defined by absolutes, rather by tendencies. And when defined by tendencies, there are definitely such things as Liberals and Conservatives.

ETA- Hark beat me to it.
fair enough. I just think it's a bad idea to call myself one or the other. I'll lose track of the one I stopped using.
 
Well, like I've said before (or tried to convey), I can't control what "We" do. I can only control, or directly affect, what I do. When you generalize, you're opening up yourself to mistakes... almost guaranteeing a mistake on some level. I'm just trying to point-out that adhering to that is causing problems. I'm beginning to wonder if too many are generalizing. When you call yourself a conservative, or liberal, I think you're generalizing. When you call other people "conservatives" or "liberals", you're generalizing. I realize it's a habit, and I realize it's the accepted way to do it. I just don't know if it's serving us in a positive way to keep doing that. But, I don't expect it to change.

What problems are being caused by mistakes from generalizations?
 
What problems are being caused by mistakes from generalizations?
You want specifics? Are you in-the-dark that making generalizations (in general) are problematic? Learning from mistakes is great! Making generalizations is hardly something I would encourage people to do on a regular basis. Do you ever find yourself saying "If only I made more generalizations, things would be better?"
 
fair enough. I just think it's a bad idea to call myself one or the other. I'll lose track of the one I stopped using.

Most people don't define themselves as strictly liberal or conservative. How many times do you hear someone say "I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative?"

Basically, as I understand it, your concern is that people align themselves with a group and then follow groupthink.
 
You want specifics? Are you in-the-dark that making generalizations (in general) are problematic? Learning from mistakes is great! Making generalizations is hardly something I would encourage people to do on a regular basis. Do you ever find yourself saying "If only I made more generalizations, things would be better?"

Yes, but generalizations are necessary so a decision can be made and the next problem can be dealt with.
 
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Well, like I've said before (or tried to convey), I can't control what "We" do. I can only control, or directly affect, what I do. When you generalize, you're opening up yourself to mistakes... almost guaranteeing a mistake on some level. I'm just trying to point-out that adhering to that is causing problems. I'm beginning to wonder if too many are generalizing. When you call yourself a conservative, or liberal, I think you're generalizing. When you call other people "conservatives" or "liberals", you're generalizing. I realize it's a habit, and I realize it's the accepted way to do it. I just don't know if it's serving us in a positive way to keep doing that. But, I don't expect it to change.

Well yes - but assuming a generalization is an absolute is a problem on your part I think. I'll break it down abstract like I did with the red/blue thing for Chick.

Take Hamburger and Hot Dog eaters. You can be a hamburger eater 75% of the time, but still enjoy the occasional hot dog, and vice versa. And just because I'm a self-described hamburger eater... that doesn't mean that I'm still going to eat and enjoy a hamburger if it's made out of dogshit. But just because I've been given a DogShit Burger a few times out of the hundreds of times I've eaten a hamburger - doesn't mean that I don't tend to prefer hamburgers, and can still call myself a hamburger eater.
 
But just because I've been given a DogShit Burger a few times out of the hundreds of times I've eaten a hamburger - doesn't mean that I don't tend to prefer hamburgers, and can still call myself a hamburger eater.
Please tell us more about the circumstances leading to your consumption of a DogShit Burger. Must've been a hulluva party.
 
Well yes - but assuming a generalization is an absolute is a problem on your part I think. I'll break it down abstract like I did with the red/blue thing for Chick.

Take Hamburger and Hot Dog eaters. You can be a hamburger eater 75% of the time, but still enjoy the occasional hot dog, and vice versa. And just because I'm a self-described hamburger eater... that doesn't mean that I'm still going to eat and enjoy a hamburger if it's made out of dogshit. But just because I've been given a DogShit Burger a few times out of the hundreds of times I've eaten a hamburger - doesn't mean that I don't tend to prefer hamburgers, and can still call myself a hamburger eater.
You know, when you use food as an example... it just makes SENSE!
 
I asked you how it was harmful. Are you now saying it's not harmful?

How is it harmful to make generalizations?

I would say he probably meant harmful in the sense of harming your way of thinking, or your ability to understand not necessarily physically harmful to you or anyone. It harms your ability to have productive relationships and conversations, I imagine.
 
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I can tell by the replies that you guys are beating your heads against a particular wall. I have, in a sense, knocked down those walls and my head is better off because of it.
 
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I asked you how it was harmful. Are you now saying it's not harmful?

How is it harmful to make generalizations?
No, you're right. Make more generalizations. Make sweeping generalizations. That will help create new and improved stereotypes. Those are always beneficial.

Everyone generalizes, it's almost instinctive. The problem (and harm) arises when it affects your attitude toward people who DO NOT FIT your generalization. Or, when you make a generalization and the exception catches up with you.
 
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