Yeah, absolutely no excuse for not sitting some starters at that point.
Very quick stuff (uk game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
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I didn't see a fixed offense played by us yesterday...
I want to be clear here, I do not want to even consider replacing Hubert, he is going to be fantastic for us, in many ways he as a coach already has been. But this game is on Hubert, this is his out come to own, as I held Roy and Dean to ownership of games that were clunkers where they coached, I hold Hubert to that same standard.
There has been something that has found its way in to our program in the last 3 years specifically. It is the glaring total lack of the effort needed to win at this level which factors in to a lack of physicality. Make no mistake, UNC was beaten physically yesterday and they just kept allowing it to happen, no pride? Maybe a coach can not really know if his starters are ready to come out and give great effort but within the first 3mins of a game you can darn well see what is going on. Hubert had to see the lack of effort going on, the letting them get to every 50/50 ball, giving up 3, 4, 5 offensive rebounds on a single possession, the waste of time running offense and toss up another bricked trey?
Right there, 3mins in, you call a time out and you pull every single one of your starters, you put your second string in and those starters do not play at all for the next 10mins, if I have to sub in that time I put in a blue steel guy but those starters sit, if they are not ready to play a darn game then they can sit there and watch guys that want the PT. And I don't care if the other team begins to run up a huge lead because I am not going to coach effort, I am not going to coach pride, but I darn well will show you what happens when that effort and pride is not there in you. When I put those starters back in, if they do not play like their hair is on fire, I pull who ever isn't and park him for the rest of the half. IF and that is a big IF, I put you back in the second half and you still don't show that fire in the belly, you are done for this game, you are no longer a starter until you earn that rite back. If that pisses you off and makes you want to hit the transfer portal, fine then you go do that. This lack of effort deal can not be allowed and it is on Hubert to put a stop to it... And for the record, Roy should have handled this last season and he did not.
True. And what's worse is that Wheeler did that to Caleb just as easily.
The problem is, who do you replace RJ (or Caleb) with?
Usually, even when the woeful defensive prowess of our guards is on full display like this, one or both of them will compensate by scoring well themselves. That didn't happen this game. And it wouldn't have had any chance to happen if they weren't in the game, either.
As I said elsewhere, I don't know why Hubert couldn't come up with a fix for some of the damage Wheeler was inflicting, at will. I mean I don't know what that fix could have been, but I'm not making big bucks as a coach, either.
Not sitting guys is a mistake that you would expect from a first year coach. It's been pretty obvious that Hubert was still trying to figure out how to manage a roster. Those growing pains are fine when you're coaching at a small school, but not a blue blood. Hopefully Hubert can speed up his learning curve.
Coach Davis said "we had no answer for him" in reference to Wheeler. BS. That's the coaches job. Come up with an answer. Wheeler is not Michael frikken Jordan. He wasn't hitting 35 foot jumpers! Other teams with less talent than we have had an answer for him. Teams after us will have an answer for him. What kind of coach even says that? We, with as talented a team as there is in the country, don't have answer for a 5'10' player driving in for layups all day!
I do give a slight, very slight, pass on the pre game prep for Wheeler with the late opponent switch, but there was time to view the ND tape, and be ready to adjust somewhat to his strengths and obvious weaknesses. The blueprint to him is there.
It is BS indeed. I could've given him a scouting report. Wheeler drives to score first, not dish. I've watched live several teams in the SEC nullify him and Notre Dame just did it. Make him shoot 3s (he stinks at it), force any drives wide so he can't use his long arms to scoop, and Bigs should attack any layup attempt.
BS indeed…HD default wil be to play harder. Well some small guys are hard as shit to guard man to man….don’t let the guy beat you all night….Gary just gave several ways to slow down a quick take it to the hoop guy. How can that whole damn coaching staff just shit there and let that shit happen the entire game?
You should stick to play by plays. You're almost good at that.
Really disappointing effort all around and one that I think is going to require a very deep re-evaluating of the part of each player and Coach Davis. Many of us felt very upset post Tenn and saw concerning qualities in that one but the last month alleviated it some, however this brought that back and poored on even more. I try to be very positive but this can’t become a trend for this program and what it’s going to be represent. I don’t know if some rims need to come down and have that ‘04 practice in Maui type of practices but there needs to be a return to the Carolina standard. And within that return, going back to basics of running the secondary and working off the bigs that way, each time we’ve made a heavy effort to do this in second halfs good results have come.
Back to the game, I was begging for Hubert to pull one out of the Dean Smith and Roy Williams playbook and go for the 5-5 substitution to light a little fire under the guys and show the starters that kind of play will not be tolerated. I think he had a perfect opportunity to do this when we went down 19-6 going into the TV timeout. Hubert needs to dive in deeper into his bench and form some sort of a rotation where guys can be ready to come off the bench and contribute on nights where the main guys just don’t have it. I love Coach, but I am having a hard time hearing him rave about certain guys in pressers just to not see them see the floor. I’m concerned that it’s the end of December and we haven’t really seen what the rest of our bench can provide as they haven’t had the opportunities to show it due to the tight rotation. I think it’s time for Hubert to have shorter leashes on that main group of 6 when it’s not working and allow the next 4-5 guys on the bench some opprotunities to get into the flow of games and show what they can contribute.
I’m super concerned about Kerwin and not sure why there’s been a struggle for him to have a role this year. You’d like to think having Jeff and Hubert on the bench can help restore his confidence but he’s becoming non existent right now. I know people have said he’s not as much of a need this year with the stretch bigs, but I can’t get behind that you have a 40% 3-point shooter there needs to be a role made for him to get his looks and to be a threat for us. I’m thinking maybe it’s putting him in more with Leaky and Caleb, not Caleb and RJ at the same time. I think getting Walton back is a key to the next 3-4 weeks.
And then it’s also frustrating that to boot this win was also needed from the standpoint of adding a key resume building W as there won’t be a ton of those chances in the current landscape that’s the ACC this year.
Back to the game, I was begging for Hubert to pull one out of the Dean Smith and Roy Williams playbook and go for the 5-5 substitution to light a little fire under the guys and show the starters that kind of play will not be tolerated. I think he had a perfect opportunity to do this when we went down 19-6 going into the TV timeout. Hubert needs to dive in deeper into his bench and form some sort of a rotation where guys can be ready to come off the bench and contribute on nights where the main guys just don’t have it. I love Coach, but I am having a hard time hearing him rave about certain guys in pressers just to not see them see the floor. I’m concerned that it’s the end of December and we haven’t really seen what the rest of our bench can provide as they haven’t had the opportunities to show it due to the tight rotation. I think it’s time for Hubert to have shorter leashes on that main group of 6 when it’s not working and allow the next 4-5 guys on the bench some opprotunities to get into the flow of games and show what they can contribute.
I’m super concerned about Kerwin and not sure why there’s been a struggle for him to have a role this year. You’d like to think having Jeff and Hubert on the bench can help restore his confidence but he’s becoming non existent right now. I know people have said he’s not as much of a need this year with the stretch bigs, but I can’t get behind that you have a 40% 3-point shooter there needs to be a role made for him to get his looks and to be a threat for us. I’m thinking maybe it’s putting him in more with Leaky and Caleb, not Caleb and RJ at the same time. I think getting Walton back is a key to the next 3-4 weeks.
And then it’s also frustrating that to boot this win was also needed from the standpoint of adding a key resume building W as there won’t be a ton of those chances in the current landscape that’s the ACC this year.
In no way is RJ that slow to where he can’t guard Wheeler.. I’ve seen RJ flying up the court through the lane out of control like no other lol.. but seriously, he’s quick. I’ve seen it.
I think this game and the Tennessee game comes down to Hubert not having his players ready to go. We could’ve easily lost both games either way, however, we should never lose like that. I heard Hubert say when he got hired, Carolina will show up! Is this the Carolina that will show up? If so, don’t worry about showing up. It’s embarrassing.
I think this game and the Tennessee game comes down to Hubert not having his players ready to go. We could’ve easily lost both games either way, however, we should never lose like that. I heard Hubert say when he got hired, Carolina will show up! Is this the Carolina that will show up? If so, don’t worry about showing up. It’s embarrassing.
The black uniforms just did not look like Carolina and, sad to say, neither did the players. This is a key moment for them : either they learn things from this moment that they should already know, or they rest on their laurels, such as they are, and wait for the draft or the transfer portal.
They are going to have to prove to me that they genuinely want to be at Carolina, because right now I don’t think some of them care.
Hubert is a nice guy by all accounts. Too nice? This is when we find out. However he does it, whatever his style is, he has to teach toughness to these spoiled, entitled celebrities. If he can’t, he’s going to have to find an assistant to be the Enforcer. Otherwise, we take giant steps backwards. I think any player not showing heart under Dean would have been running suicides over and over and over.
They are going to have to prove to me that they genuinely want to be at Carolina, because right now I don’t think some of them care.
Hubert is a nice guy by all accounts. Too nice? This is when we find out. However he does it, whatever his style is, he has to teach toughness to these spoiled, entitled celebrities. If he can’t, he’s going to have to find an assistant to be the Enforcer. Otherwise, we take giant steps backwards. I think any player not showing heart under Dean would have been running suicides over and over and over.
I’ve said it before and will say it again that nearly all of the best coaches in basketball and football have an edge to them. In other words, they’re not like your typical “players coach.” It concerns me that Hubert is a players coach and because he is such a nice guy, is he willing to bench a kid or jump down their throat for minimal effort? So far, he has been unwilling to do that and the lazy effort and selfish play of some has been allowed to happen with no repercussions.
Man I am so tired of seeing unc players looking like they dgaf. You very rarely used to see that. Of course every season even in championship years you saw games where they just didn’t have it and that’s human nature. But it was always an anomaly and the teams inevitably bounced back with vengeance and you NEVER saw more than one or two a season it seemed. Now it’s 50/50 over whether or not they play with intensity and energy. Been that way for several years and I don’t know how you change it.
The women's team just came back from a 15 point deficit, on the road, to win a conference game. They are also undefeated. Maybe Hubert should sit down with their staff and compare notes.
Sounds spot on to me.
If someone asked Hubert why he didn't do that, what do you think his answer would be?
Lots of Wheeler's scoops and such looked very blockable - IF someone was there to block them. With Wheeler already having left RJ or Caleb in the dust, and with guys like Leaky, Brady and Dawson out on the perimeter - while Armando is busy bodying up on Oscar - who should leave their assignment to help out?
I'm thinking Caleb on Wheeler might have been better than RJ on Wheeler, simply because after Wheeler blows by Caleb, Caleb still has the reach to block some shots from behind. RJ doesn't. But then RJ has to guard TyTy. I think RJ can stay in front of TyTy better than he could with Wheeler, but he's giving away too much height, so TyTy shoots over him.
Either RJ or Caleb can turn into a scoring machine, so maybe you don't want them on the bench for a better defender who is less of a threat to score (Ant), or for another scorer who is an even worse defender (Kerwin).
Obviously I'm just spitballing, and am no coach. So feel free to point out what's wrong with those thoughts.
I watched this debacle in a bar with no audio. What I saw was absurd. It looked like RJ was playing one-on-one with Wheeler and getting his ass kicked ... so he tried even harder to go one-on-one with Wheeler and lost even worse.
Garcia looked scared to mix it up.
Love looked disinterested.
Manek looked disinterested and seemed worried about where his points were gonna come from.
Bacot looked passive.
Just my opinion, and probably not accurate ... but I felt like the team was getting annoyed at RJ chunking up stupid shots, so they all said "well, screw it ... if he's gonna shoot those kind of shots all day then what's the use of trying?".
Again, I'm probably wrong, but I thought RJ stunk it up and the selfish way he is playing is causing locker room issues.
Garcia looked scared to mix it up.
Love looked disinterested.
Manek looked disinterested and seemed worried about where his points were gonna come from.
Bacot looked passive.
Just my opinion, and probably not accurate ... but I felt like the team was getting annoyed at RJ chunking up stupid shots, so they all said "well, screw it ... if he's gonna shoot those kind of shots all day then what's the use of trying?".
Again, I'm probably wrong, but I thought RJ stunk it up and the selfish way he is playing is causing locker room issues.
As several people posted above .... I don't see NBA written all over any of our players. If those that have eligibility left remain for another year, then we could be a force next year ... if many of them that think they're going pro next year actually go (Bacot, Garcia, Love), then we're probably looking at another mediocre year for UNC ball.
I think you got a point there…..RJ wants to score at all cost and I think he is not coachable enough to change his mind. I think Love is coachable but see everybody else going for theirs and say “why the hell Im I the only one sacrificing.” You can see it on his face.
Thrn I saw Bacot and RJ talking about we need to execute and play harder……I wish they would have said exactly what they were told to execute……HD got to switch to head coach mode and get out of this assistant coach mode and make some hard decisions.
In my opinion, that is on Hubert and the staff. Allowing a player to do that, which you are correct, can cause issues with teammates. Put his ass on the bench and anybody else that's not playing TEAM Basketball. I quite sure there are kids on the bench that would like to have the opportunity. I'd rather have players who might not be as athletically gifted, play and give everything they've got while on the court instead of the selfish ones taking the court now. Leaky Black is the only starter, who in my opinion, should be allowed to wear the uniform because he does play hard and with effort every second he's on the floor. An this is coming from a fan who has not cared for Leaky for the past 3 years. At least the young man is trying! Damn this ABSOLUTELY SUCKS!!
As I said, I've watched him be shut down more than once, and it's pretty simple. He gets away with a lotta drives simply by the surprise of being a little guy with deceptively long arms, BUT he's not particularly quick. So, again, if you A) move your feet and force him to angle away from the basket, and B) the closest Big cleans up the scoop whlle the man guarding him opens up to protect against the dump pass, he has nowhere to go.
To be sure, one of the things we saw was our too-often forced 3s (that have previously bailed us outta bad possessions) didn't drop.
There are many examples were players just quit on plays. Many of our players are guilty. Here is just one example on Caleb. I'm pointing out Caleb because he our best player and the leader of the team.
Watch this play at the 8:19 mark of the first half. No effort at all in trying to stop this guy who is 6-7 inches shorter. Ridiculous! RJ is just as bad.
Watch this play at the 8:19 mark of the first half. No effort at all in trying to stop this guy who is 6-7 inches shorter. Ridiculous! RJ is just as bad.
I'm admittedly the proverbial broken record on this, but the interchangeable PG thing is a demonstrable fail. Love looks lost when he's off the ball, while Davis plays with his head down when he has the ball. Pulling the plug on that is Step-1 to righting this ship and getting some role-identity established.
This team simply doesn't appear to play for each other. As much as I hate to see all the man-love from the dookies after every play (kinda like a women's volleyball team), I don't get the sense that this UNC team likes each other on the floor (despite what Hubert says).
I haven't seen team unity since Theo and JBII were on the team.
The players, the staff, all were very disappointing in that game. Now there is absolutely reason to critique the play in that game but this has shown that there are many that seem to have been biding their time to tear in to Hubert as our coach? It is one game and yes they wet the bed but Dean coached games where his team wet the bed, Roy did as well. Hubert is in his first year of head coaching, as UNC head coach, did you not realize there would be bumps in the road guys? Totally forgotten is the fact this team played MUCH better coming back from Conn, was improving game by game but along comes that debacle vs Ky and all the sudden the long knives come out?
Keep in mind folks, UNC fans wanted to run Dean Smith out of the state when he had been our head coach for a lot longer than Hubert has been. Yes, there are things Hubert is going to need to improve on and in time he will. Last season, under a hall of fame head coach, we really under achieved, season prior to that we would not have made the NCAAT had one been played. I watched Roy in press conferences over those last 2 seasons talking about how he knew his team was not ready to play like they needed to, watched us get buried by huge first half deficits? Many seem to think this stuff is easy yet if it is so easy why was our Hall of fame head coach not able to figure it out?
What I am saying folks is yeah, I am STILL pissed over that Ky game but it was 1 game in a long season of games yet to be played, in Hubert's first season as our head coach. The folks that looked to run Dean Smith out of town were wrong to give up on him as quickly as they did, those now looking to do the same with Hubert are no more right.
This is coming from a guy that preferred Wes get our gig, I actually preferred King over Hubert, and in my opinion I was WRONG. I am now 100% behind Hubert as our head coach and I want him to have the time to figure this out (which always was going to come with more than it share of ups and downs).
I think the single most difficult issue we have right now, an issue that I do not think can be fixed by the end of this season is that we simply do not have a PG, we have 2 guards with 2 guard mindsets playing at the PG position. We are not playing with 2 PGs on the floor together, in order to do so you actually do need to have 2 Pgs on your roster and the only one we have is maybe Creighton Lebo but he is a blue steel guy. I am not in love with the way Caleb and RJ seem to play together, they seem to step on each others game.
Keep in mind folks, UNC fans wanted to run Dean Smith out of the state when he had been our head coach for a lot longer than Hubert has been. Yes, there are things Hubert is going to need to improve on and in time he will. Last season, under a hall of fame head coach, we really under achieved, season prior to that we would not have made the NCAAT had one been played. I watched Roy in press conferences over those last 2 seasons talking about how he knew his team was not ready to play like they needed to, watched us get buried by huge first half deficits? Many seem to think this stuff is easy yet if it is so easy why was our Hall of fame head coach not able to figure it out?
What I am saying folks is yeah, I am STILL pissed over that Ky game but it was 1 game in a long season of games yet to be played, in Hubert's first season as our head coach. The folks that looked to run Dean Smith out of town were wrong to give up on him as quickly as they did, those now looking to do the same with Hubert are no more right.
This is coming from a guy that preferred Wes get our gig, I actually preferred King over Hubert, and in my opinion I was WRONG. I am now 100% behind Hubert as our head coach and I want him to have the time to figure this out (which always was going to come with more than it share of ups and downs).
I think the single most difficult issue we have right now, an issue that I do not think can be fixed by the end of this season is that we simply do not have a PG, we have 2 guards with 2 guard mindsets playing at the PG position. We are not playing with 2 PGs on the floor together, in order to do so you actually do need to have 2 Pgs on your roster and the only one we have is maybe Creighton Lebo but he is a blue steel guy. I am not in love with the way Caleb and RJ seem to play together, they seem to step on each others game.
Without diving too deep here, there were some leftover issues (concerning what you mentioned) from Roy's last couple of seasons. To his credit, Hubert addressed one of those issues proactively in camp, and the results there have been good.
I don't think it's any big secret at this point that I'm referring above to Leaky, and I am very proud of how he responded to a potential demotion and EARNED his was back into the starting lineup. Thing is though, that particular issue was only part of some more team-wide problems --- and of course, these days you hafta factor in whatever baggage the transfers might bring with them.
Anyway, I mentioned in the OP that Hubert seems to be coaching with "scared money", in that he feels pressure to win early. I get that, BUT... one of the greatest lessons from Dean and the other greats is that TEAM-BUILDING often means sacrificing short-term gratification for long-term success.
Hell, with what I saw Saturday, if Hubert had pulled everyone at the under-12 and let the Blue Team finish the game, I wouldn't feel anywhere nearly as disturbed about this loss as I do now... because at least a coaching message would've been sent.
Finally, it's important to remember that BAD HABITS can instill themselves even without bad attitudes. And that's where as a coach you have to be sure to reward good habits and never reward the bad ones. I've said this to several guys in my circle that I hope Hubert has a Come-to-Jesus (or perhaps, Come-to-Dean) moment from this and devotes 90% of practice focus in the coming days to reteaching the fundamentals of Carolina Basketball.
Here's hoping...
D, you are exactly right in saying that "there are many that seem to have been biding their time to tear in to Hubert as our coach". I don't have a problem with that because everyone is free to express their opinion and everyone has an opinion. Hubert is not going anywhere for at least 3 -4 years. He will be given the opportunity to turn this program around. The 2022 recruitng class is ranked #11 in the country and that is a good start. UNC has a very favorable ACC schedule and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Heels can finish in the Top 3 in the ACC and get a 5-6 seed in the Dance. The team played a good game against Purdue ( the best team in the country) and if Walton would have hit the 3 point shot late in that game to give the Heels the lead we may be looking at a completely different situation today,
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Let’s hope Gary……somewhere is his brain…he knows this ain’t right. I’ve said it many times now that some sacrifice will have to take place like bringing RJ off the bench. Or bring García off the bench because these two guys just want to score….they disrupt any chemistry you got going because the ball sticks in their hands. Just too many ball hogs in the starting lineup that don’t play defense.
Bring RJ off the bench…..he is a ball hog . Also bring García off the bench he is a ball hog too.
Cant have two ball hogs…shoot every time I touch it players in the game with Bacot and Love and Leaky. Start Manek and Ant. One gives you shooting the other tough defense and can get to the basket.
Yep, it’s not rocket science.
Some of our looong threes that have been falling aren’t always going to fall. The team right down 15-501 has lived by the long ball for most of the last 6-7 years, with very mixed results. When you play a 7 man rotation, those legs can get a little heavy down the stretch. And you can’t make those threes with dead legs. Inside-outside ball will always be fruitful.
I was one who originally thought they could mesh together and become an excellent backcourt. I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong. Their games aren’t synergistic. I believe, as you and King have said that Love should start and RJ should come off the bench.
As much as we disagree politically, we agree a lot on UNC sports. That was a tight team. Love that team!
I think the ladies SHAVE their legs; our men don't.
At least, that is what I have been told.
No mention about arm-pits sir.
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Last I heard there's a first-year HC who came from an Assistant's chair doing pretty amazing things at Arizona right about now.
