Which Starting Lineup...?

[UNC Blue Hup]

If everyone is healthy :

Love
Walton
Puff
Manek
Mondo

I know it’s a complete wish on Puff—or else it’s RJ at 2–Kerwin 3–I dont want to see Leaky start and he won’t —I’ve heard the excuse to start as ‘he has experience’ ..look at what happened—he’s a friggin off the bench defender at most..he’s a good kid..come in and defend Leak, cause some turnovers, get some scramble points dude—give our starters a rest at a couple positions..not a bash on Leak but he can be used as a gasser to the starters at most positions off the bench..agree ?

 

[ChiShankCity]

I get the sentiment but c’mon. Not only is the Leaky hate played out but the legend of his sucktitude grows by the day. Like a fisherman, whose greatest catch gets bigger with each story told, Leaky’s poor play seems to get progressively worse every time it’s spoken of, without him having touched a ball in 6 weeks now.

I didn’t really mean it to rip of Leaky. But he is who he is at this point isn’t he? He will likely be a 40-45% 2-point shooter, 25% 3-point shooter, 70% FT shooter. He helps the team in other ways but those ways aren’t what this team needs next year.

Next year’s team will depend on Caleb Love’s improvement. If Caleb improves significantly, he goes from one of the most inefficient PG’s in the country to just an inefficient PG right? I mean is anyone expecting him to be 35% 2-point, 27% 3-point (at a high volume) to a 45% 2-point, 35% 3-point? That would be incredible, almost unheard of improvements from a high volume shooter.

So assuming Caleb doesn’t have that statistical turnaround, yet understanding how important his improvement is, the main way to get the most out of Caleb is him not having to shoot as much. There’s one way and one way only. Surround him with shooting.

Maybe Leaky’s rebounding next year will be really important since we lose size but for this roster... any dude who can nail an open corner 3 would help this team more than an offensive zero.

I would agree the hate is a bit out of line. He was always a developmental prospect who had the frame that looked like it had potential. But Leaky’s a common example. If you don’t have really any established skills coming into college, it’s hard to develop them to the point where anyone is confident to perform them under game pressure.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I didn’t really mean it to rip of Leaky. But he is who he is at this point isn’t he? He will likely be a 40-45% 2-point shooter, 25% 3-point shooter, 70% FT shooter. He helps the team in other ways but those ways aren’t what this team needs next year.

Next year’s team will depend on Caleb Love’s improvement. If Caleb improves significantly, he goes from one of the most inefficient PG’s in the country to just an inefficient PG right? I mean is anyone expecting him to be 35% 2-point, 27% 3-point (at a high volume) to a 45% 2-point, 35% 3-point? That would be incredible, almost unheard of improvements from a high volume shooter.

So assuming Caleb doesn’t have that statistical turnaround, yet understanding how important his improvement is, the main way to get the most out of Caleb is him not having to shoot as much. There’s one way and one way only. Surround him with shooting.

Maybe Leaky’s rebounding next year will be really important since we lose size but for this roster... any dude who can nail an open corner 3 would help this team more than an offensive zero.

I would agree the hate is a bit out of line. He was always a developmental prospect who had the frame that looked like it had potential. But Leaky’s a common example. If you don’t have really any established skills coming into college, it’s hard to develop them to the point where anyone is confident to perform them under game pressure.

First of all, I think Love improves significantly. I’m not going to predict what kind of shooting percentages he might have because I don’t care. Can he play better winning basketball? I think so.

But for argument’s sake, let’s say he doesn’t? Why is it Leaky’s fault? Why must we bench Leaky to get a player that fits next to Caleb better? Why wouldn’t we expect better play from the PG position?

Whatever. I’m not necessarily taking up for Leaky, but the feelings toward him are largely shortsighted and ignorant. But hey, at least you recognized that he does indeed help the team in other areas. I was beginning to think everyone here thinks the game of basketball is basically a game of HORSE.

 

[Travis2262]

With Hubert confirming Bacot will be back next year ( as basically everyone already knew) it is safe to assume 4 of the 5 starters are set.

Caleb
K3RWIN
Manek
Bacot


The remaining spot should be wide open IMO. May the best man win.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

With Hubert confirming Bacot will be back next year ( as basically everyone already knew) it is safe to assume 4 of the 5 starters are set.

Caleb
K3RWIN
Manek
Bacot


The remaining spot should be wide open IMO. May the best man win.

Add Leaky to that list and you could say the starting spots are theirs to lose.

People may think Leaky is more likely to lose his spot - and he certainly has competition - but SF is still his to lose.

Bacot has no competition. At all.

Manek played at a good Big 12 school and was consistent, year after year. There's no reason to think he won't come out of the gate hard and fast. But he does have some competition. McKoy, Styles and even Leaky. Those guys will need to back up Manek, as well as Bacot. Even thought Manek should play starter minutes right away, those other fellows will get plenty of PT to make their cases, in real games as well as in practice.

Kerwin could have plenty of competition. Harris, Dunn, RJ.

PG may be Caleb's to lose, but RJ is already a close competitor. And some think Caleb might perform better on the wing. Which in turn, could make Kerwin into a competitor at SF.

 

[dadika13]

You guys are funny with these lineups that include 3 of Walton, Manek, RJ, Puff.

Who the hell is playing defense in those scenarios? The knock on Manek is that he can’t play D and we’ve seen first hand that the other 3 are revolving doors on the perimeter.

You have 3 shooters already (Caleb, Walton, Manek) in the lineup. You need to start Leaky as a player who can actually guard the other teams best wing or else you guys are going to be on here bitching that we play no defense. Leaky was the only guy who consistently shut guys down last year.

 

[NCAAUCoach]

You guys are funny with these lineups that include 3 of Walton, Manek, RJ, Puff.

Who the hell is playing defense in those scenarios? The knock on Manek is that he can’t play D and we’ve seen first hand that the other 3 are revolving doors on the perimeter.

You have 3 shooters already (Caleb, Walton, Manek) in the lineup. You need to start Leaky as a player who can actually guard the other teams best wing or else you guys are going to be on here bitching that we play no defense. Leaky was the only guy who consistently shut guys down last year.

The sample size is small on Puff. I think he can be a good defender, but we will have to see. I prefer Puff over Black, because Black hasn't improved year over year to the point of being a UNC level starter in my opinion. If he and Puff are close, go with the younger one and make it an emphasis in the offseason for footwork and defensive focus.

To be fair, we haven't had many good defensive teams in recent years. Roy's philosophy on defending the 3 hopefully won't extend to Hubert.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

That, experience, and expected improvement are why Leaky is in all of my lineups! Peeps say Manek can move his feet well enough to become a good enough defender and Walton showed improvement that I feel will continue. RJ really just needs to get bigger and stronger in addition to learning to play team D. Puff-I really have no idea since he wasn't out there long enough to tell, but I suspect health and this off-season will improve his D as well.

 

[gunslingerdick]

You guys are funny with these lineups that include 3 of Walton, Manek, RJ, Puff.

Who the hell is playing defense in those scenarios? The knock on Manek is that he can’t play D and we’ve seen first hand that the other 3 are revolving doors on the perimeter.

You have 3 shooters already (Caleb, Walton, Manek) in the lineup. You need to start Leaky as a player who can actually guard the other teams best wing or else you guys are going to be on here bitching that we play no defense. Leaky was the only guy who consistently shut guys down last year.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Roy's philosophy on defending the 3 hopefully won't extend to Hubert.

This is worth it's own thread.

What's your best guess?

And if Hubert ditches Roy's perimeter D, how will that affect rebounding? That always seemed to be the tradeoff: the soft 3pt D leaving our guys in better positions to rebound.

 

[NCAAUCoach]

This is worth it's own thread.

What's your best guess?

And if Hubert ditches Roy perimeter D, how will that affect rebounding? That always seemed to be the tradeoff: the soft 3pt D leaving our guys in better positions to rebound.

I think our rebound numbers are a mix of things.

1) We take quick (not always good) shots, so our bigs get a lot of offensive rebounds.

2) We play two traditional bigs where many teams don't

3) Our defensive philosophy is to reduce the higher % shot, which is a lay-up (or was when Dean coached). We have more people packing the lane.

4) Dean taught (Roy learned) to run the fast break so we have to have strong rebounding to initiate that.

For defensive philosophy, I would prefer that is ONE MAJOR thing that changes.

 

[tarheel0910]

Leaky was the only guy who consistently shut guys down last year.

You were doing good until you got right here. Nobody consistently shut down anyone, except maybe Manley in the two minutes that he played. You can make an argument Leaky was our best defender, but he wasn't consistently shutting down many people.

 

[dadika13]

You were doing good until you got right here. Nobody consistently shut down anyone, except maybe Manley in the two minutes that he played. You can make an argument Leaky was our best defender, but he wasn't consistently shutting down many people.

Go look at what Leaky did to Ziaire, probably the best wing player that he played against all season.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I think our rebound numbers are a mix of things.

1) We take quick (not always good) shots, so our bigs get a lot of offensive rebounds.

2) We play two traditional bigs where many teams don't

3) Our defensive philosophy is to reduce the higher % shot, which is a lay-up (or was when Dean coached). We have more people packing the lane.

4) Dean taught (Roy learned) to run the fast break so we have to have strong rebounding to initiate that.

For defensive philosophy, I would prefer that is ONE MAJOR thing that changes.

Good points.

At the moment it seems clear that #2 will be changing. That's based on Hubert's comments and because we may only have one true inside player this season. I hope we get another, but even if we do, that's only 2 and they can't be on the court together for 40 minutes.

If we don't add at least one true big, even if Armando plays 30 mpg, that leaves a quarter of the game without even one true big man on the court. That will be very different from what we're used to.

I'm not sure how happy our fans are going to be whenever our front court is Justin McKoy and Leaky. Which might happen if Armando and Brady both need a blow or we have foul trouble. Heck, I'm not sure how happy Justin and Leaky will be. Hubert is going to have to get creative.

Caleb
Ant
Kerwin
Leaky
Justin

Yikes.

 

[tarheel0910]

Go look at what Leaky did to Ziaire, probably the best wing player that he played against all season.

Why not say he consistently shut down Zaire then? I know you know enough about basketball to know what you said wasn't true. Was Leaky our best perimeter defender, probably. That doesn't mean he was a consistent lock down defender. He was the tallest midget (sorry if midget isn't the PC term).

 

[CarolinaBlue5]

Go look at what Leaky did to Ziaire, probably the best wing player that he played against all season.

Ziaire avg 10 ppg, shot 37% from the field, and 29% from 3! He was overrated and not the best wing we played all year! He did do a great job that game on him, I’ll give you that! You can also look at other moments and it will show Leaky getting torched! The whole team got torched the majority of the year, so it wasn’t just him! Some seem to think Leaky is an incredible lockdown defender, he’s an average or slightly above avg defender imo! I personally think Ant is our best defender! The perception (from a few on here and not necessarily you) that Leaky is a great defender is nowhere near true! When you compare his defensive abilities to his offensive game it doesn’t come close to leveling out! He’s just really bad on offense! Just my opinion

 

[NCAAUCoach]

Leaky has the potential/profile to be a great defender because he’s long, a guard that can play 4 positions and isn’t great on offense. That “profile” should be a great defender.

 

[Archer2]

You were doing good until you got right here. Nobody consistently shut down anyone, except maybe Manley in the two minutes that he played. You can make an argument Leaky was our best defender, but he wasn't consistently shutting down many people.

This. We had zero lockdown defenders last year. Garrison and Leaky were decent defensively. Leaky has the physical attributes to be a stellar defender but thus far has not shown the will or the basketball IQ needed to be that guy. Maybe we’ll see that next year, I hope so.

And yes, we desperately need a big man to bolster our front line. We’re paper thin there, even if we go to a single big man lineup.

 

[CarolinaBlue5]

Leaky has the potential/profile to be a great defender because he’s long, a guard that can play 4 positions and isn’t great on offense. That “profile” should be a great defender.

I think where Leaky struggles is lateral quickness, and explosiveness! Both offensively and defensively..I’ve noticed he has a hard time getting by defenders on offense! He’s super long so that helps him a lot! I was talking to someone the other day and I brought up this....you can probably count on both hands how many dunks Leaky has had at UNC (maybe a few more than that). At 6’8 with probably a 7’ wing span, that alone should tell you about his lack of explosiveness..

 

[gunslingerdick]

No one said Leaky was great. But it's true that he was our best defender. I think Caleb has elite defensive potential but right now, Leaky is the best defender on the team. Come October, I'm willing to bet that's still true. Contrast that with RJ and Kerwin who were the two worst defenders on the team. And Puff, who we have no idea what he's capable of because he didn't do anything at all last year.

Not only that, but Leaky is an above average rebounder at the wing. And has already been mentioned, his size and length offer an advantage.

I'm just happy to know that there are at least a few people here who understand there's more to basketball than shooting.

 

[Travis2262]

Leaky was probably the best defender last year but that is not saying much. I believe it was the Virginia Tech game where he constantly got beat. He looked horrible defensively that game.

If leaky starts he needs to be told he must be a lock down defender and don't shoot, EVER. Layups/dunks only.

Ok maybe not ever but you get my point.

 

[tarheel0910]

I was wondering who was going to be the message board's next Platek. I think we've found him in Leaky.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I was wondering who was going to be the message board's next Platek. I think we've found him in Leaky.

You mean the guy on our team that fans have unrealistic expectations for? I agree.

 

[tarheel0910]

You mean the guy on our team that fans have unrealistic expectations for? I agree.

The guy a few people pump up and make him out to be better than he is and a few people overreact in response and say he's horrible. Meanwhile the rational people in the middle get attacked by both sides.

 

[dadika13]

The guy a few people pump up and make him out to be better than he is and a few people overreact in response and say he's horrible. Meanwhile the rational people in the middle get attacked by both sides.

No one is saying he’s MJ.

He’s a long ass wing that can actually stop people. It’s fine if you want to think he’s only good in comparison to our other defenders but the point is we, when discussing lineups, are only comparing him to the other options.

 

[Archer2]

The guy a few people pump up and make him out to be better than he is and a few people overreact in response and say he's horrible. Meanwhile the rational people in the middle get attacked by both sides.

Just so.

 

[NCAAUCoach]

I think he’s a rotation guy, but not a unc level starter. That doesn’t mean he sucks at all.

 

[heels05champs]

Leaky is the most overrated defender I can remember at Carolina. He’s certainly no “lock down” defender by any stretch. I’d say he’s above average when he’s actually locked in which he is never consistent being locked in all game.

The good thing is he’s now being coached by a real lock down defender in Jackie so he needs to take some tips from him.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I was wondering who was going to be the message board's next Platek. I think we've found him in Leaky.

Sad to say, I think he was already the co-Platek.

I really hope he works on his shooting and turns the corner there. Nobody would be dissing him if he could hit those shots at a reasonable clip and with a bit of confidence.

Leaky does enough other things well enough that he's sort of like Reggie Bullock without the outside shot. Reggie was another guy who came in 2nd and 3rd on a lot of stats. But he also shot well.

Come on Leaky, you can do it.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I have yet to run into the "realistic" peeps in the middle about Leaky so I assume I am counted in the extreme group that thinks he is MJ reborn!

Even though all I have said is I expect him to improve more this off season than any other and I expect him to EARN a starting spot! I have said he will be a starter Day 1 and might be beaten out by ACC play, but I expect him to stick all year. I think it will be better for the team if he is good and I expect a healthy, full, and normal off-season will allow him to finally show his true abilities. If not, we have some dadgum good options to pick up the slack!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I have yet to run into the "realistic" peeps in the middle about Leaky so I assume I am counted in the extreme group that thinks he is MJ reborn!

Even though all I have said is I expect him to improve more this off season than any other and I expect him to EARN a starting spot! I have said he will be a starter Day 1 and might be beaten out by ACC play, but I expect him to stick all year. I think it will be better for the team if he is good and I expect a healthy, full, and normal off-season will allow him to finally show his true abilities. If not, we have some dadgum good options to pick up the slack!

Pretty much nails it.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The good thing is he’s now being coached by a real lock down defender in Jackie so he needs to take some tips from him.

I hope that proves to be true - for some of our other players even more than for Leaky, but for Leaky, too. And for us fans, of course.

I'd love to think that a good defender will be a good teacher of defense. But we thought that when we first got a good shooter (Hubert), expecting our shooting to improve - and that never seemed to materialize.

Now that I think of it, I'm having trouble naming very many really good coaches who were also really good players. Whatshisname at Michigan, maybe? Too soon to know. Kelvin Samson? Who else?

I'm sure there are a bunch. But I'm not thinking of any who are up there with Dean, Roy, K, Self....

 

[tarheel0910]

I have yet to run into the "realistic" peeps in the middle about Leaky

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Nice to meet you, Sir!

 

[ChiShankCity]

It’s just hard to play an offensive zero major minutes. You become easier to game plan against.

In college, you can be valuable without scoring but you better be really skilled at the other aspects. In the NBA, the Grizzlies gave the Warriors a ton of trouble in the playoffs until the Warriors basically left Tony Allen wide open and made an offensive zero beat them. And Tony Allen was probably the best perimeter on-ball defender in the NBA at the time but he became unplayable because he wasn’t a threat offensively.

It’s not as extreme in college but it’s important that Leaky has a skill that can either directly put the ball in the basket or help his teammates do so. Even a floater game would help a ton. He needs something.

 

[blazers]

Ahhh, remember back in the day when boards had the starters and the exact minutes-per-backup figured out by this time of the yr?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Reading this thread was funny. Leaky of course took heat throughout the discussion with many saying he shouldn’t start and some basically calling him a bum. It’s worth mentioning that he’s the only one mentioned in this thread that has played in the NBA. And that might be true a year from now as well.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Ultimate payback to haters is......success!

Congrats Family!