he’s done. literally nobody in that top tier of the portal will come play for him. it’s not about money at this point. it’s hubert. ask andrew.
Who Replaces Hubert?
- Thread starter GoNtheDistance
- Start date
These types of threads have been going for quite some time. But now, it feels different. It feels like a legit discussion we should all be having. I’ve said anything short of ACC reg season championship, ACCT championship or Final Four and Hubert is out. And this roster isn’t capable of the above. I agree. The talent leaving and the underwhelming portal gets are reflecting poorly on Hubert in an offseason he needed to knock out of the park. Frankly, I’m stunned he was able to sign Wilson (and even more stunned he didn’t decommit when he had the chance).
The problem I’m gonna have is that I’m not supportive of going out and getting the new shiny toy. Honestly, I’m not gonna be happy unless it’s Jay Wright, Billy Donovan or a major splash hire like that.
I agree. But I don't know why this is happening. Is it just a bad offensive scheme? Is it player development? Doherty could not get along with his players. But Hubert is such a nice guy I can't see that as the problem. Can you guys explain this to me?
Barring a 180 degree change, it appears inevitable. Personally I think giving him this 5th year only delays the inevitable and further sets back the program.
When the time comes, you’ll see the familiar long-shot names tossed around but realistic quality candidates like Pat Kelsey and Dusty May should be high on the list.
When the time comes, you’ll see the familiar long-shot names tossed around but realistic quality candidates like Pat Kelsey and Dusty May should be high on the list.
My pie in the sky pick we might actually have some shot of landing would be Otzelberger. Had a Top 3 team with only two Top 100 players. A fraction of what we had. Sure he loves Iowa St but does Iowa St love him enough to beat or match what we can offer? I don't even track other coaches anymore after this university just threw logic out the window the last time they hired for Basketball.
Unfortunately, when the time comes it's going to be much harder to find a slam dunk hire than it was ~5 years ago. Back in 2021, NIL topped out at around 4 digits, Duke and Kentucky didn't even make the tournament, and we were still a cream of the crop program despite a bad year or two. Coaches would've clawed their eyes out to get here. AJ reported there was a ton of interest the first time around. Even by some NBA guys. (Somehow Hubcap was considered a better option than all these guys, though. 🙄).
Who wants to come here now? Program's dangerously circling the drain, stuck in a dead end conference with a shitty TV deal (Less $$$), NIL issues still lingering despite a bigger warchest, An over-bearing BOT + Good ol' boy network to micromanage your decisions. Hell, they just got around to addressing the NIL problems and we're still losing a bunch of pieces we needed to keep. The appeal of coaching at a blueblood is pretty much dried up. How great that we chose to play with House money to appease Roy and the Basketball Alumnus.
We would have absolutely gotten someone like Nate Oats in 2021 if offered. There's no chance of that now. Same for Todd Golden after this year. Make them say no, and work down the AP top 25.
Unfortunately, when the time comes it's going to be much harder to find a slam dunk hire than it was ~5 years ago. Back in 2021, NIL topped out at around 4 digits, Duke and Kentucky didn't even make the tournament, and we were still a cream of the crop program despite a bad year or two. Coaches would've clawed their eyes out to get here. AJ reported there was a ton of interest the first time around. Even by some NBA guys. (Somehow Hubcap was considered a better option than all these guys, though. 🙄).
Who wants to come here now? Program's dangerously circling the drain, stuck in a dead end conference with a shitty TV deal (Less $$$), NIL issues still lingering despite a bigger warchest, An over-bearing BOT + Good ol' boy network to micromanage your decisions. Hell, they just got around to addressing the NIL problems and we're still losing a bunch of pieces we needed to keep. The appeal of coaching at a blueblood is pretty much dried up. How great that we chose to play with House money to appease Roy and the Basketball Alumnus.
We would have absolutely gotten someone like Nate Oats in 2021 if offered. There's no chance of that now. Same for Todd Golden after this year. Make them say no, and work down the AP top 25.
I’m definitely in the Hubert should go camp, but I will give him this… with the portal and NIL, I think it’s 10x harder to maintain consistent success now than it was even 7 years ago. Even with Kansas, UConn, etc, I think we’re going to see all of them have seasons of struggle similar to us. If a kid develops too well, he leaves… if he doesn’t develop, he leaves. The sweet spot for roster retention is quite narrow.
Not even Roy or Dean would have the same success they had if they were in their primes coaching in this new, awful landscape.
That being said portal and NIL aside (both of which Hubert has little control over), it’s the other things that Hubert does have control over that make me want us to move on.
Not even Roy or Dean would have the same success they had if they were in their primes coaching in this new, awful landscape.
That being said portal and NIL aside (both of which Hubert has little control over), it’s the other things that Hubert does have control over that make me want us to move on.
I agree and this is an even bigger reason they should have moved on already. The coach is the only constant so having the absolute best you can get is imperative. Not even his biggest fans think that’s HD.
You guys don't like it when I say Kelvin, ya say he is to old, so I guess you want young up & comers.
I like Nico Medved and Dusty May, they may be at about the right timing in their career to take a blue blood job, I would still like to see them a couple more years where they are. Medved just took the Minn job and May is what, year 2 at Michigan, both are well respected up and comers?
I like Nico Medved and Dusty May, they may be at about the right timing in their career to take a blue blood job, I would still like to see them a couple more years where they are. Medved just took the Minn job and May is what, year 2 at Michigan, both are well respected up and comers?
There are a couple of things to keep an eye on.
1. Wes Miller. I would not hire him. But with the importance of being a UNC person, he's going to be a candidate if Cincinnati has a good year. Would I go as long to say he's the favorite if Cincinnati let's say finishes top 3 in the B12 and gets to the 2nd weekend? I think I would. He's the person to keep an eye out on.
2. The Chicago Bulls are a clown show but their owner doesn't care. If he suddenly cares and decides to clean house with a new GM and HC, then keep an eye on Billy Donovan. In 2022 Donovan supposedly signed a "secret" contract extension. I don't think the public knows for how long but it was with intent for him to be around a while. Previously he signed a 4 year extension in 2020 so it's safe to assume he's under contract in 2026. But a name to keep an eye out for.
1. Wes Miller. I would not hire him. But with the importance of being a UNC person, he's going to be a candidate if Cincinnati has a good year. Would I go as long to say he's the favorite if Cincinnati let's say finishes top 3 in the B12 and gets to the 2nd weekend? I think I would. He's the person to keep an eye out on.
2. The Chicago Bulls are a clown show but their owner doesn't care. If he suddenly cares and decides to clean house with a new GM and HC, then keep an eye on Billy Donovan. In 2022 Donovan supposedly signed a "secret" contract extension. I don't think the public knows for how long but it was with intent for him to be around a while. Previously he signed a 4 year extension in 2020 so it's safe to assume he's under contract in 2026. But a name to keep an eye out for.
Maybe I'm giving Dean too much credit but I think he would have adapted. He figured things out. Heck, he invented things. He even made changes that forced the league to change its rules.
But mainly, Dean would take whatever he got from the portal and turn it into a real team. No way he'd still be struggling to find the right lineup in Feb or March.
Roy on the other hand was at his best when he had time to develop his players. So it's probably best that he's not our coach in this era. He could develop them if they would stick around, but these days, few of the best stay put. Heck, just think back to Kessler.
Hubert's 2 best years tell me he can do a good job if he's lucky enough (or good enough) to get the right key players. If the new GM/NIL infrastructure routinely gets him those right key players, then he'll be our coach for a long time.
Everything is on the line this coming season. Is Hubert good enough? Is the new GM/NIL infrastructure good enough? A lot of us have doubts about Hubert at this juncture but, to be honest, it's not clear that the GM/NIL folks have really delivered, either.
Would Wright be interested?
Some coaches who got out because of the portal/NIL nightmares might be tempted to get back in if they had a good GM and staff and very hefty NIL to work with. IF they could count on getting a good set of players, they could spend their time on actual coaching and teaching.
I wonder if Tony Bennett would take another shot with the right GM and NIL promises?
There have always been great coaches who weren't great recruiters. I'm thinking of Maryland's Gary Williams back in the day. He would occasionally have a great team because he lucked out and got a great player. But usually he built dangerous teams from less-recruited players. Overachievers, because their coach could actually coach.
Which is to say, if schools all go the GM/NIL/more staff route, maybe the next phase of CBB evolution is the return of coaches who can actually coach. I would not object.
Which is to say, if schools all go the GM/NIL/more staff route, maybe the next phase of CBB evolution is the return of coaches who can actually coach. I would not object.
Wes is in a seat hotter than Hubert Davis's. Four years at Cincy with no NCAA tournament appearances, their fans are getting pissed, too. He'd have to have one hell of a year to be in serious contention for UNC, let alone keep his current job. I'm talking Top 5 in the Big 12 at least.
Another option is if Wes gets canned we offer him an Associate HC position. He's young, a good roster builder with great energy and actually has experience leading a team. Plus it helps with the "in the family" lunacy. Granted he's done an assistant gig already so he might not want to do it again, but would he rather be Head Coach at a place like UAB or Associate Head Coach at his alma mater UNC?
I wouldn't hold my breath on Donovan. Based on what I've heard from UK fans, he makes teams wait until the season is over before letting them know if he's seriously interested or not. If he makes the playoffs, we'd still be waiting to hear from him now.
I just posted this on the Stojokovic thread...
Hubert seems like a great guy. He also seems like a crap coach.
Yes, talent is important, but coaching is still very much important, and Hubert has shown he can't manage talent, nor coach up a team for a sustained season.
Nothing wrong with admitting you're in over your head.... He should have done the honourable thing at the end of the season and stepped down.
Hubert seems like a great guy. He also seems like a crap coach.
Yes, talent is important, but coaching is still very much important, and Hubert has shown he can't manage talent, nor coach up a team for a sustained season.
Nothing wrong with admitting you're in over your head.... He should have done the honourable thing at the end of the season and stepped down.
Other than one April night 9 years ago, I love Jay Wright too. He's 63 so he's got some good years left in him... BUT, I think he doesn't want any part of the nonsense that college basketball has become. And I don't blame him.
I wish I knew. Watching the tournament this year, I felt the 'heels, if they
played their best, were good enough to compete with anyone. But something wasn't
there, effort, chemistry, coaching, what kept them from reaching their full potential?
That's the million dollar question.
If Hubert is replaced, please don't feel the need to stay in the 'family"!
3 of the Final Four teams this year didn't and look at them, plus AL.
played their best, were good enough to compete with anyone. But something wasn't
there, effort, chemistry, coaching, what kept them from reaching their full potential?
That's the million dollar question.
If Hubert is replaced, please don't feel the need to stay in the 'family"!
3 of the Final Four teams this year didn't and look at them, plus AL.
Mark, I don't know that you could force Jay Wright to come back as a college coach today at gun point. Jay is a old school coach, he will not deal with this portal or NIL nonsense, he is happy to comment on things but he wants no part of today's head coaches world.
Totally agree DS. I could see him - MAYBE - taking a shot in the nba, but like you said, why not just sit back and get paid well to simply talk about the game and not deal with all the stress?
I have always believed that for a coach to take over a legendary blue blood program like UNC that coach should have 5yrs of successful experience at a lower level program where he elevated that program. Then move on to a power 5 program for about a 5yr run where he as well elevated the program to the extent that program becomes at least in the conversation every season to be in the NCAAT. I would like to see that coach lead his team to being an annual at least top 3 in his conference and winning it out right a time or 2. Then MAYBE he is ready to take on a blue blood program.
I don't think UNC has now or has anyone on the horizon at that level in the UNC family tree so when and if Hubert is replaced it has to come from some outside of the UNC family tree (and should have been the case 5yrs ago).
We need to find the best AAU coach over the last 10 years and make him an offer. HD was trained by UNC legends in Roy and Dean. There philosophy and genius was looking at a 5 star talent, and knowing what year sophomore, junior, or even Senior seasons that they would be dominate. HD in the current environment of Portal, has to hope a freshmen will change our entire team or even portal player. The thought of a portal player who doesn't work out with thier current school or a 18 year old freshmen changing UNC basketball is actually crazy, but is the reality of college basketball.
AAU coaches are use to this kind of yearly change. Do I think we win more games with this philosophy? No I don't, but reality is that is what we want to happen.
No 5*, we'll traveled player wants to be developed. They already are well paid so that usually indicates that they are ready. Again reality is that few guys can do that.
We need a coach that says, we are better than Duke and put that in the minds of recruits (a lot of people hate Puke). Harbaugh (sp) did that with Michigan football, and turned them into champions after putting it into the minds of players and recruits you come here to beat Ohio State.
AAU coaches are use to this kind of yearly change. Do I think we win more games with this philosophy? No I don't, but reality is that is what we want to happen.
No 5*, we'll traveled player wants to be developed. They already are well paid so that usually indicates that they are ready. Again reality is that few guys can do that.
We need a coach that says, we are better than Duke and put that in the minds of recruits (a lot of people hate Puke). Harbaugh (sp) did that with Michigan football, and turned them into champions after putting it into the minds of players and recruits you come here to beat Ohio State.
I've never seen a post help anything to be honest. It is a discussion of people sharing their ideas and thoughts.
BUT . . . what if he doesn't have to? What if he has a GM and a well-staffed, well-funded recruiting department to take all that nonsense off his plate?
When this stuff first started it just caused headaches for many coaches. Some were good at it, others got out of Dodge. But if they can come back and just coach, why wouldn't they?
Wright and Bennett could be happy where they are, but if they yearn to coach without the portal hassles, that may just depend on whether the school will give them the staff and money to get the players they want.
Exactly. And sometimes they do help. People offer new info. Or they try to explain what they think is going on. I'm always learning and getting new perspectives from our better posters.
And even when none of that is happening, it's a place to ask question or blow off steam.
It isn't just the stuff that a GM and staff will help a ton with, it is more the mindset of players. Look at what the Tenn QB just did, heck look at what Lubin just did? We lost our PG to the portal because he demanded UNC play a different approach. Doesn't matter at all if you felt we should have a different approach, you do not tell your coach how to do his job when you are a player. Jay Wright simply is not going to play that game.
I understand the thread but we could have waited to at least February of next year…It would be more clear by then….
This is interesting and makes you wonder, what he would told coming in? He had to be told something he liked to come, just to leave because they wouldn't change to what he wanted.
What does everyone think changed?
Maybe players leave because they are being told things to get them to come and then it not happen. We have had lots of players hit the road that it wpuld appear were going to be the core starters to the team the next year.
I think players are being told in good faith by Carolina what they want to hear to come but because of lack of coach experience and just flat out poor coaching they can not deliver what is promised, then they leave.
Imagine a player that changes HS twice once from his high school to a prep school. That was really cool 5 years ago, it meant player wanted better comp. They choose a college, and there sophomore year another prized recruit is being recruited so they decide to transfer (10 years ago it meant the player did not want to compete). Then let us say they get drafted after two years of college, and play in G-league for a year maybe two, and finally make it to NBA team. That would mean a guy has played in 6 different systems in 8 years, and then becomes a valuable trade piece once they make a mark in NBA.
Loyalty and dedication is gone, and I am not blaming players, I blame the current system that can't see how this is not only hurting college game, it is hurting all of basketball.
With all that said, why would anyone really want to coach in this present environment of college basketball. I posted years ago that college was turning into AAU, so I echo the same point I tried to make in previous post. Get the best AAU coach around. Most of the time it will not be the best coach it will be the guy who does what ever his players want him to do. Is UNC ready for that?
Loyalty and dedication is gone, and I am not blaming players, I blame the current system that can't see how this is not only hurting college game, it is hurting all of basketball.
With all that said, why would anyone really want to coach in this present environment of college basketball. I posted years ago that college was turning into AAU, so I echo the same point I tried to make in previous post. Get the best AAU coach around. Most of the time it will not be the best coach it will be the guy who does what ever his players want him to do. Is UNC ready for that?
I do not believe it has anything to do with what these kids are told coming in, they were all told work hard and earn your minutes. Say what you will about Hubert but the man is not going to lie to his players, morally he is not built that way.
I believe the players that had remaining eligibility all left for their own reasons. Drake left to fulfill his dream of playing in the NBA, you never know when the golden ring will again be in your grasp. Lubin left because he didn't like others being paid more than he was. Jackson left because he wants to be a starter and knew Seth had a firm grasp on that role. And Cadeau, to put it as nicely as I can, you no doubt saw me speak to Cadeau's maturity level as both a player and a kid many times this season, right? JWash, was not painted a great picture of his opportunities for next season and like Cadeau, was not begged to have a change of mind when he elected to enter the portal. All different reasons, not this grand conspiracy with Hubert. Other programs are going thru the exact same thing as we are and their fans seem to love their head coach. It is just where college sports finds itself today and it is mostly self inflicted wounds that the NCAA refuses to deal with.
First off you misunderstood my statement i said "being told in good faith" implying that what Hubert was telling them he truly believes and intends to honor!
With a little more understanding of he statement maybe you can answer the question.
I was never trying to say that they were intentionally lying to player to get them.
I didn't really take it or look to suggest you were suggesting Hubert was not being truthful to players but 18yr olds do tend to hear what they want to hear and throw out what they don't want to hear.
If I'm a coach these days, I'm not counting on anybody coming back next year.
Which is to say if I'm hiring a coach these days, I'm looking for the coach who can take whatever he has and make the best of it.
I loved coaches like Roy and Bennett who developed their kids over time, but they are dinosaurs today.
Yep. You could almost guarantee Roy being in the chip race every three to four years. Win, reload, they stay, rinse and repeat. Gave me something to look forward to each and every year. Who’s going to come in, develop, make a mark, then leave. Unfortunately it is now, how much money, time, and notoriety can I get.
Maybe they think the right pick will be available next season but not this one. It’s the only reason I can come up with for wasting another year on a known wrong answer. HD isn’t a top 5 coach in an ACC that is incredibly weak in coaching.
I would welcome Donovan in a NY minute.
And you can’t blame them. If I were a college coach who had made a few million I would retire and go fishing. You couldn’t pay me enough money to deal with the clusterfu@k that is college football/basketball for more than just enough time to secure my family’s future.
Sampson has all he wants now at Houston: He is recognized widely by fans and sportswriters as the best coach in program history, and his son is guaranteed to replace him.
May is from IN and wouldn't leave Meeeshigin for IU. He will not leave for UNC. Medved is a native of MN and a U Minnesota alum. Not likely he would leave for UNC.
