Year 5 of Hubert Davis???????

[Kool1234567]

What is the programs Identity…Meaning what do we do well…With Dean it was playing fundamental basketball ….Rebound….Playing multiple Defensive sets even within 1 game…Getting easy looks and making them….Great FT shooters…

Roy was we are going to run your ass out the building tonight and I loved it….Playing 8 or 9 guys…..Great FT shooting and getting easy looks….


I ask this question heading into Year 5 what is our identity under Coach Davis….I don’t know??????

I feel like it’s live by the 3 die by the 3….That is not a recipe for success….

 

[RP12]

One on one/2 man game mostly with players who are bad at that, hope to be hot from 3, and watch on selection Sunday with excitement to see if they’ll even make the tournament. Play way below talent level for 2/3 of the season and blame it on the players. Repeat cliches word for word.

 

[gary-7]

What is the programs Identity…Meaning what do we do well…With Dean it was playing fundamental basketball ….Rebound….Playing multiple Defensive sets even within 1 game…Getting easy looks and making them….Great FT shooters…

Roy was we are going to run your ass out the building tonight and I loved it….Playing 8 or 9 guys…..Great FT shooting and getting easy looks….


I ask this question heading into Year 5 what is our identity under Coach Davis….I don’t know??????

I feel like it’s live by the 3 die by the 3….That is not a recipe for success….

You just posed the question the staff needs to ask itself in the proverbial mirror.

 

[heels05champs]

What is the programs Identity…Meaning what do we do well…With Dean it was playing fundamental basketball ….Rebound….Playing multiple Defensive sets even within 1 game…Getting easy looks and making them….Great FT shooters…

Roy was we are going to run your ass out the building tonight and I loved it….Playing 8 or 9 guys…..Great FT shooting and getting easy looks….


I ask this question heading into Year 5 what is our identity under Coach Davis….I don’t know??????

I feel like it’s live by the 3 die by the 3….That is not a recipe for success….

I haven’t seen any system or identity. I see them trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole and doing a poor job adapting to the roster construction, which said roster construction has been brutal recently.

The blueprint was left for them. It was tried and true over decades. But for some mind boggling reason, they have strayed from it.

The horizontal offense and then jacking a 3 near the end of the shot clock has been painful to watch for too long now.

 

[DSouthr]

What is the programs Identity…Meaning what do we do well…With Dean it was playing fundamental basketball ….Rebound….Playing multiple Defensive sets even within 1 game…Getting easy looks and making them….Great FT shooters…

Roy was we are going to run your ass out the building tonight and I loved it….Playing 8 or 9 guys…..Great FT shooting and getting easy looks….


I ask this question heading into Year 5 what is our identity under Coach Davis….I don’t know??????

I feel like it’s live by the 3 die by the 3….That is not a recipe for success….

GREAT GREAT question Kool !!!

Your question is EXACTLY why I was not advocating for Hubert to be named our head coach, because he had no identity as a head coach. I wanted Hubert to go to a smaller program, do all his tinkering, develop himself as a head coach, develop what it is as a head coach that defines him. You see, before your team can have a real identity your coach has to have his identity established and not deviate from that. It isn't for me a question of Hubert's potential ability but it is more about his being ready for such a power job. I mean, geez, you don't just graduate college and become a heart surgeon the next week?

I think Hubert is in some ways like Roy, Roy always seemed to need to be considered as a defensive minded coach that liked the running game but he coached like a offensive minded coach that was smart enough to realize big men really help you on the defensive end. I think Hubert is just now finally understanding the real value of a guy like Bacot, what not having the size to physically match up really means in terms of how hard your smaller guys ave to play and just how hard it is to sustain that kind of effort for 40mins.

 

[gauchoheel]

What is the programs Identity…Meaning what do we do well…With Dean it was playing fundamental basketball ….Rebound….Playing multiple Defensive sets even within 1 game…Getting easy looks and making them….Great FT shooters…

Roy was we are going to run your ass out the building tonight and I loved it….Playing 8 or 9 guys…..Great FT shooting and getting easy looks….


I ask this question heading into Year 5 what is our identity under Coach Davis….I don’t know??????

I feel like it’s live by the 3 die by the 3….That is not a recipe for success….

This year we were 222nd in the country in 3-pt rate. That means we shot fewer threes than even an average college team. We hardly live by the 3; in fact I wish we shot a lot more (would need better shooters to do that, of course).

To me Hubert does a lot of iso's or standard high pick and roll. We've moved away from motion offense, though we still mostly use fast paced teams (we were 33rd in the country this year in possessions per game).

 

[NathanFielder]

This year we were 222nd in the country in 3-pt rate. That means we shot fewer threes than even an average college team. We hardly live by the 3; in fact I wish we shot a lot more (would need better shooters to do that, of course).

To me Hubert does a lot of iso's or standard high pick and roll. We've moved away from motion offense, though we still mostly use fast paced teams (we were 33rd in the country this year in possessions per game).

It’s one of the biggest misconceptions about this team. Why fans think that way is because in late clock situations, this team shot jumpers. Previous teams got the ball inside.

But coming into this season, this team was always going to he reliant on the 3. But they didn’t shoot enough nor make enough. And they didn’t have supplemental ways to score. They didn’t offensive rebound and they didn’t force turnovers.

This was far less the case last year. Last year Bacot and Ingram took their share of late clock shots. So RJ didn’t have to shoot all the late clock shots like this season. And no surprise, RJ’s efficiency tanked. Especially against top 50 teams where he shot 25% from 3.

It’s why the answer to this thread’s question starts with this:

Get better players. What has made UNC an elite program is consistently getting elite players. Then getting those elite players to play well with one another.

How many elite players are on this roster? I’d argue probably none. The upgrading the talent is priority number one.

 

[Lewis&Miller]

Everyone knows the answer and that is NONE.... very recently Mack Brown searching for ways to change the inconsistent play of the football team told the media his team needs to find an identity. Identities are not changed overnight. Your identity is developed thru the coach's practice to practice culture.

 

[UNCHUSKER]

You just posed the question the staff needs to ask itself in the proverbial mirror.

It doesn’t take 5 years to have an answer to the question. This staff clearly doest’t have the answer. NEXT

 

[bluetoe]

Get better players. What has made UNC an elite program is consistently getting elite players. Then getting those elite players to play well with one another.

I'm enjoying and for the most part agreeing with your posts, but I have to offer somewhat of a corrective opinion here.

Ignoring the '57 championship and starting with Dean, who is (perhaps arguably, but that's beside the point) the creator of our elite program...his success was not built on elite players but rather getting good players and drilling them into fundamentally sound and cohesively executed play within a sound system. That was IMO the most enjoyable Carolina BB to watch ever because it was like a fine watch, a machine, with every player part of every play. The ball movement and player positioning was downright artful. BB is a team sport and those were truly TEAMS.

Dean built an elite program before the elite players starting signing on in numbers.

When Dean did start getting those truly elite players, I saw the cohesion take somewhat of a back seat to talent. You can't beat talent for what it brings but you CAN beat it for what it takes away. Those egos sometimes caused problems among players and on the court and play became somewhat more individual and somewhat less machine-like.

Once the program became about elite players, it came to depend on those elite players to keep the program elite. It seems to me that what we need at the present is an elite, machine-like system for our very good players to operate within. I don't see one. And I'm no BB guru but I see missed opportunities to have that.

This is not meant as criticism of any kind toward you or Hubes or anyone else, it's just what I observed over the course of time, and I might be all wet.

 

[DrJaaay]

It’s one of the biggest misconceptions about this team. Why fans think that way is because in late clock situations, this team shot jumpers. Previous teams got the ball inside.

But coming into this season, this team was always going to he reliant on the 3. But they didn’t shoot enough nor make enough. And they didn’t have supplemental ways to score. They didn’t offensive rebound and they didn’t force turnovers.

This was far less the case last year. Last year Bacot and Ingram took their share of late clock shots. So RJ didn’t have to shoot all the late clock shots like this season. And no surprise, RJ’s efficiency tanked. Especially against top 50 teams where he shot 25% from 3.

It’s why the answer to this thread’s question starts with this:

Get better players. What has made UNC an elite program is consistently getting elite players. Then getting those elite players to play well with one another.

How many elite players are on this roster? I’d argue probably none. The upgrading the talent is priority number one.

I don't think our staff identifies talent very well. Just saw that Wilcher had 2pts in the St. Johns loss. He would have fit right in with Jwash, Cade, etc had he stayed. I'm bitter, sorry.

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

Weak scheme is our identity.

Players have to be unbelievably hot for it too succeed.

 

[1heel4life]

Weak scheme is our identity.

Players have to be unbelievably hot for it too succeed.

What has happened is truly, SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Old_School59]

It doesn’t take 5 years to have an answer to the question. This staff clearly doest’t have the answer. NEXT

And yet he gets a 2 year extension? WTH are these people thinking?

 

[sctarheel30]

Identity is get down by at least 20 fight like crazy to come back only to run out of time and energy.

 

[Heelicious]

I'm enjoying and for the most part agreeing with your posts, but I have to offer somewhat of a corrective opinion here.

Ignoring the '57 championship and starting with Dean, who is (perhaps arguably, but that's beside the point) the creator of our elite program...his success was not built on elite players but rather getting good players and drilling them into fundamentally sound and cohesively executed play within a sound system. That was IMO the most enjoyable Carolina BB to watch ever because it was like a fine watch, a machine, with every player part of every play. The ball movement and player positioning was downright artful. BB is a team sport and those were truly TEAMS.

Dean built an elite program before the elite players starting signing on in numbers.

When Dean did start getting those truly elite players, I saw the cohesion take somewhat of a back seat to talent. You can't beat talent for what it brings but you CAN beat it for what it takes away. Those egos sometimes caused problems among players and on the court and play became somewhat more individual and somewhat less machine-like.

Once the program became about elite players, it came to depend on those elite players to keep the program elite. It seems to me that what we need at the present is an elite, machine-like system for our very good players to operate within. I don't see one. And I'm no BB guru but I see missed opportunities to have that.

This is not meant as criticism of any kind toward you or Hubes or anyone else, it's just what I observed over the course of time, and I might be all wet.

@bluetoe and @NathanFielder - great posts.

I just think to mesh both of your posts / thoughts a bit…. People hate Nate Oates for being a skeez or whatever at Alabama.

But he’s smart enough to do the math / analytics to understand you win with making 3s and layups/dunks (and related FTs…) then he goes out and finds true 3pt shooters and players who can drive and score at the rim.

It sounds simple, and maybe it is….but these analytics are important. I’d say they are used in all successful nba and ncaa basketball programs….

….which drives me nuts when I hear hub say “I don’t do analytics”. Well he should if it means his job. Or have someone in the program do it if you’re not up to it hubs but then why tf are you getting paid big HC money if you need someone else to run the program. Are we just paying hub to “motivate” with rah rah speeches and sub in for guys when they are tired?

 

[Old_School59]

@bluetoe and @NathanFielder - great posts.

I just think to mesh both of your posts / thoughts a bit…. People hate Nate Oates for being a skeez or whatever at Alabama.

But he’s smart enough to do the math / analytics to understand you win with making 3s and layups/dunks (and related FTs…) then he goes out and finds true 3pt shooters and players who can drive and score at the rim.

It sounds simple, and maybe it is….but these analytics are important. I’d say they are used in all successful nba and ncaa basketball programs….

….which drives me nuts when I hear hub say “I don’t do analytics”. Well he should if it means his job. Or have someone in the program do it if you’re not up to it hubs but then why tf are you getting paid big HC money if you need someone else to run the program. Are we just paying hub to “motivate” with rah rah speeches and sub in for guys when they are tired?

What you are saying is he was a DEI hire? Sure looks like it huh?

 

[NathanFielder]

I'm enjoying and for the most part agreeing with your posts, but I have to offer somewhat of a corrective opinion here.

Ignoring the '57 championship and starting with Dean, who is (perhaps arguably, but that's beside the point) the creator of our elite program...his success was not built on elite players but rather getting good players and drilling them into fundamentally sound and cohesively executed play within a sound system. That was IMO the most enjoyable Carolina BB to watch ever because it was like a fine watch, a machine, with every player part of every play. The ball movement and player positioning was downright artful. BB is a team sport and those were truly TEAMS.

Dean built an elite program before the elite players starting signing on in numbers.

When Dean did start getting those truly elite players, I saw the cohesion take somewhat of a back seat to talent. You can't beat talent for what it brings but you CAN beat it for what it takes away. Those egos sometimes caused problems among players and on the court and play became somewhat more individual and somewhat less machine-like.

Once the program became about elite players, it came to depend on those elite players to keep the program elite. It seems to me that what we need at the present is an elite, machine-like system for our very good players to operate within. I don't see one. And I'm no BB guru but I see missed opportunities to have that.

This is not meant as criticism of any kind toward you or Hubes or anyone else, it's just what I observed over the course of time, and I might be all wet.

Appreciate this post. I was born in 1988 so most of my UNC memory tank is post-Dean. But these are important factors to consider when talking to people on this board. A good reminder that everyone might have a different opinion what UNC basketball is.

 

[pittsburghheel]

The game is different today. Roy Williams and CoachK were smart to retire when they did.
I have no proof Dean Smit would be nearly as successful as he was in the pre-internet, social media, and of course NIL word.
The UNC Basketball needs to be run like a business. We don't have recruiting cache like Duke and we don't have the dollars (yet) like SEC schools do. We need to find organizational identify as much as playing style. The issue are far beyond the coach.

 

[bluetoe]

The game is different today. Roy Williams and CoachK were smart to retire when they did.
I have no proof Dean Smit would be nearly as successful as he was in the pre-internet, social media, and of course NIL word.
The UNC Basketball needs to be run like a business. We don't have recruiting cache like Duke and we don't have the dollars (yet) like SEC schools do. We need to find organizational identify as much as playing style. The issue are far beyond the coach.

you said it! You were probably talking about NIL and rightfully so, but back when we could only send the ACC tournament (i.e., conference) winner to the NCAA, I would gripe that we (ACC champion) were at a disadvantage in the NCAA because ACC BB was called very closely not just by today's standards but while the rest of the country even then was playing a much more physical and less of a finesse, athletic game than the ACC was playing. My theory was that ACC play was so good that physicality was the only thing that allowed other conferences to compete, and that physicality helped make up for lesser talent. And that was nothing compared to how physical and accordingly comparatively free of whistles today's game is.

I guess I'm just different. People tend to whine when 'too many' fouls are called because it makes any particular game less fun to watch. I'm more of a purist. I wish they would blow the whistle every time a by-the-book foul occurrsand a travel or DD happens. Players and play would adjust to it, and BB could once again become the wonderful game it once was and was intended to be. People don't seem to realize that the refs aren't taking the game away from the players by blowing the whistle, but rather by NOT blowing the whistle consistently. You can't call it consistently when you're constantly trying to decide whether a foul or a travel is bad enough to signal.

I have at times stopped watching games because they were nauseatingly more like rugby matches. Basketball isn't supposed to be rugby.


Here's a glaring example of what now passes for exemplary play. For a while there, they promotionally kept showing Cooper Flagg, in a game I forget, starting down court from the defensive end and driving coast-to-coast to the basket and dunking it. It was fairly ordinary but the media needs to make the ordinary spectacular for the fans who are attracted to shiny objects and loud noises, so since Flagg is the current media darling, they were calling it the play of a lifetime.

As they kept slobbering over that 'play-of-the-century', they completely ignored that he committed the most obvious double dribble ever to begin with, and then took steps going to the hoop.

OK I'm done. And I don't even feel any better because dook is winning.