ADVERTISEMENT

Fedora

Never developed Trubisky? The guys starting MNF tonight?

Never developed a single RB? Like Hood the guy who had 17 TDs as a sophomore. That is a ton of TDs for a soph.

Not developing linemen - like Nazair who developed so well he left a yr early for 3rd round draft? Heck, even Mikey Bart went from being a low-star TE/DE to getting onto two different team's pre-season rosters despite a super-slow combine forty time. Someone that slow only gets to that stage by coaching, motor, hardwork and being strong.
Bart I concede.


'Development' means that the staff gets players to improve. Trubisky arrived that good. Before his RS Freshman year, he was named in an article (either ESPN or SI) as being one of 5 freshmen who could end up in that year's Heisman race. Everybody with sense knew that trubusky was that good, and Fedora sat him for 3 years.

Hood arrived a nationally hot 4 star recruit, who was ND's #1 choice at RB for that class. Hood did not leave better than he arrived.

Jones is a special case because of illness. A fully healthy Jones throughout HS would have been much more hotly recruited.

The Fedora system is not about developing players. It is about trying to land players Fedora thinks are best for his system, and he plays them per his gut feelings.
 
ESPN article on surprise of Wazzou as team in playoff hunt. ON DC Alex Grinch.

"He's absolutely right. As long as Mike Leach is coaching in Pullman, defense will be overlooked. But Grinch is making fools of us with how good he has made this defense. Over the weekend, Wazzu held an Oregon run game that was averaging 260.8 yards per game to just 132 yards and 2.9 yards per carry in 31-10 win in Eugene.

And it's not like he's recruiting first-round NFL draft prospects. No, Grinch knows the Cougars "aren't going to get them fast, big and ready" in recruiting, so he's having to develop more than a lot of coaches at bigger schools do."
 
To say Fedora has developed talent consistently is laughable. There's been a few fringe kids work their way into the league however the players we have that are in the NFL are ones that were on the radar from day 1
 
Pull our list of active NFL players (not practice squad) and then tell me how they developed while at UNC under Fedora. Good news is the list isn't very long.
 
And please don't mention Trubisky. The kid was an elite recruit and eventually played 1 season to become a top pick and now a rookie starter in NFL. Only thing he developed at UnC was patience playing behind Marquis Williams.
 
Pull our list of active NFL players (not practice squad) and then tell me how they developed while at UNC under Fedora. Good news is the list isn't very long.
And please don't mention Trubisky. The kid was an elite recruit and eventually played 1 season to become a top pick and now a rookie starter in NFL. Only thing he developed at UnC was patience playing behind Marquis Williams.
These two poasts make me unwilling to even try because they're chock full of ignorance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
Remember those odd yrs where Trubisky got every third series? He ended that so-so, and with a horrible pick-6 To say he didn't improve is silly
 
  • Like
Reactions: TarHeelNation11
with regards to overall and continued development, this current year is a great example either way.

i'm willing to wait and see after this crop finishes the year, but so far only naz is playing, so.

it's also indicative of his system...the nfl has become a pass first league and while that has nothing to do with the spread, it does bring factors like tempo, o-line technique, route tree familiarity, and production into play.
 
These two poasts make me unwilling to even try because they're chock full of ignorance.
But since I'm a nice guy, I'll do it anyway:

  • Mitchell Trubisky -- elite recruit my ass. He wasn't an Elite 11 guy, and he's by far the highest-ever drafted Tar Heel QB. It would be nuts not to count him.
  • Naz Jones -- starts for Seattle. Came in as a middle-of-the-road 3*** prospect
  • Mack Hollins -- walk-on drafted in the third or fourth round
  • Ryan Switzer -- 3*** RUNNING BACK that was converted into a receiver and became an extremely adept route runner. That's the definition of development
  • T.J. Logan -- 4**** recruit. Would currently be the starting KR for Arizona if he hadn't gotten injured
  • Eric Ebron -- starter. Not recruited by Fedora but Fedora persuaded him to stay and then showcased him in his system. Ditto for Gio Bernard
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
Pull our list of active NFL players (not practice squad) and then tell me how they developed while at UNC under Fedora. Good news is the list isn't very long.

Idiocy. How bout I pull the list of 4* recruits from every school in the nation and sort by ones NOT in the nfl.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
THN11, this is our first rodeo so I'll withhold the name calling and dive into the names you posted. If you'll recall, I asked you to highlight how they developed while at UNC, not just that they were drafted. Here's my take:

Trubisky-you really are saying Trubisky wasn't an elite recruit and likely to succeed no matter where he ended up? kid was Mr Football in Ohio and was the 7th ranked QB in his class by ESPN and considered a top 3 dual threat QB and arguably the best arm in his class. scholarship offers from places like Alabama, Tennessee, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc. If that's not elite then lord help...
Naz Jones-this one is interesting but he was also a 4* recruit per ESPN with scholarship offers from places like Auburn, South Carolina, etc. Definitely considered a big time target for P5 schools. This kid is just a phenomenal kid. I encourage you to read up on his health issues when he was 15 and 16 years old when he was paralyzed for a short period of time. To be fair, I don't think Fedora or any coach could say they were responsible for this kid's development. In reading his story years ago and following him through the years, this kid was destined to overcome and outwork anybody in front of him and I stand by that.
Mack Hollins-this one I will give you. He was a kid that developed while at UNC and I'll give Fedora some credit for that since he's the head guy. I'll also give a ton of credit just as Mack did to Coach Brewer who worked with Mack countless hours on route running and understanding spacing and gaps in secondary coverages, etc. He's got a nice combo of size and speed that showed well over the years.
Ryan Switzer-this one is right in the middle for me. Kid was also a 4* per ESPN with offers from places like Florida State, Penn State, etc. He was a big time recruit, don't kid ourselves because of his skill set. We can all admit that his size has hindered his perception coming out of high school and even going to the league, but nonetheless, there's a reason this kid was an X factor the minute he stepped on campus and produced for us in year 1 and was an elite returner. He was a jitterbug with enough move and shake to overcome his height limitations. He also possessed arguably the highest football IQ of a player we've had in a while. As a former coach myself, if you watch film of this kid, he has an uncanny ability to find pockets in the defense and run effective routes against different coverages, knowing that there's some variation required in each. Kid was just really damn good from the start.
TJ Logan-kid was a stud coming out of high school, wanted by any and everybody in the Southeast US. Many considered him to be the best dual threat RB to come out of NC in decades. Offers from Auburn, Clemson, Ohio State, South Carolina, Tennessee, etc. Elite recruit that candidly just never truly developed or reached his potential while at UNC. You could also insert Elijah Hood here. Another elite RB recruit that we just never consistently gave the right amount of touches to that most other schools would have given our offensive scheme. We definitely didn't develop this kid or showcase his true ability while in Carolina blue.
Eric Ebron-again, this kid was a physical specimen and considered a top 10 TE recruit coming out of High School, 4* per ESPN. We were lucky to keep him in state honestly. I won't go into too much detail because he's matured quite a bit, but he had a lot of offers, but many of the top tier programs steered clear because of some perceived character issues here. Regardless, talent and ability were never in question. He was also a Butch Davis recruit. I do think we developed him while at UNC to help prepare him for the NFL, but feel pretty sure that he would have made it to where he is now regardless of where he went. I do think we were the "right" place for him and it worked out well for both sides.

All in all, I think it's fair to say that the kids above that played under Fedora, minus 1 or 2 max, were highly talented kids coming out of HS and projected to get a shot at the NFL with a steady diet of hard work and injury free college campaigns regardless of where they went to college. Even a few that were mentioned were majorly under utilized while at UNC and are still very productive at the NFL level. I'm not going to get into the weeds about our lack of discipline, game management and defensive output, but for the sake of talking about talent development, I don't think you can put talent development and a general lack of fundamentals and discipline in the same sentence. Fundamentals and discipline are key cornerstones of player development and growth and we lack those in a major way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Archer2
GoNtheDistance, your argument sounds like x,y and z kids were so talented they didn't need development. So why don't ALL 4* wind up in the NFL?

Go to any recruiting site, sort by QB, filter by 4* and you'll find tons of guys not drafted and zero undrafted free agent opportunity.

Drennon and Mikey Bart are the same yr, had the same exact coaches. Drennon was a 4*, Bart is slow, borderline 3* Why did Bart get two NFL looks, while Drennon probably will get zero? Part is the person, part is injuries, but this serves two points - not all 4* are guaranteed of being college impact players, and our coaches turned a slow guy into a decently solid DE.

Notre Dame was seriously considering Hood as an LB. But he came here, learned how to block and when to block (he as outstanding in pass pro), learned how to catch (great hands and good routes), etc and became really multi-dimensional.

I hope you understand the % of 3* and lower guys making it to the NFL is super low... so if you are expecting "development" to regularly turn 3* guys into freak athletes you are misinformed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
GoNtheDistance, your argument sounds like x,y and z kids were so talented they didn't need development. So why don't ALL 4* wind up in the NFL?

Go to any recruiting site, sort by QB, filter by 4* and you'll find tons of guys not drafted and zero undrafted free agent opportunity.

Drennon and Mikey Bart are the same yr, had the same exact coaches. Drennon was a 4*, Bart is slow, borderline 3* Why did Bart get two NFL looks, while Drennon probably will get zero? Part is the person, part is injuries, but this serves two points - not all 4* are guaranteed of being college impact players, and our coaches turned a slow guy into a decently solid DE.

Notre Dame was seriously considering Hood as an LB. But he came here, learned how to block and when to block (he as outstanding in pass pro), learned how to catch (great hands and good routes), etc and became really multi-dimensional.

I hope you understand the % of 3* and lower guys making it to the NFL is super low... so if you are expecting "development" to regularly turn 3* guys into freak athletes you are misinformed.

blazers, first and foremost, I'm NOT saying they didn't develop. I am however saying that they didn't develop because of Fedora. As I said in the last paragraph, as long as most of those kids mentioned who were high level recruits stayed the course, had good production and stayed healthy, they would get a shot in the NFL. It's simply a law of averages. I didn't say all. I'm talking about UNC kids, specifically the kids TH11 highlighted.
 
^So if they didn't develop due to UNC coaching, it was luck? How does it work for the rest of the 4* in the world who are awesome in college? Is theirs also luck or just due to the 4* 'genes'?

And i forgot, Drennon looked better vs GT and Notre. He was 250 and 255 the prior two yrs, but dropped to 245 - maybe due to foot/leg injuries, but he's looking improved for the yr at least. I think the coaches are getting some good more out of this Front 7 than I expected.
 
bottom line: fedora is 41-30 at unc, not impressive to say the least. he is either not recruiting much talent or he is not developing that talent. take your pick. the worst insult may be to say that he is recruiting well and developing players well. if that's true then 41-30 is a disgrace -- a severe indictment of his game planning and game management.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoNtheDistance
bottom line: fedora is 41-30 at unc, not impressive to say the least. he is either not recruiting much talent or he is not developing that talent. take your pick. the worst insult may be to say that he is recruiting well and developing players well. if that's true then 41-30 is a disgrace -- a severe indictment of his game planning and game management.
Fedora UNC win % to date: 58%
Mack Brown win % at UNC: 60%
 
Fedora UNC win % to date: 58%
Mack Brown win % at UNC: 60%
Dig a little deeper though. Mack showed improvement from his first year to his last. Can you honestly say the same about Fedora? Especially considering he is on track to have his worst year so far. I'm not one that wants to get rid of him right now, but to compare him in any meaningful way to Mack is just wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoNtheDistance
Dig a little deeper though. Mack showed improvement from his first year to his last. Can you honestly say the same about Fedora? Especially considering he is on track to have his worst year so far. I'm not one that wants to get rid of him right now, but to compare him in any meaningful way to Mack is just wrong.
Not entirely true.

1988: 1-10
1989: 1-10
1990: 6-4-1
1991: 7-4
1992: 9-3
1993: 10-3
1994: 8-4
1995: 7-5

1996: 10-2
1997: 10-1

After getting to 10-3 in Year 6, Mack then regresses in Year 7 and regresses further in Year 8, before ramping back up to 10-win seasons in Year 9 and Year 10.

This blip season we're currently enduring (greatly exacerbated by injuries) is annoying, but it's far from unusual.
 
Not entirely true.

1988: 1-10
1989: 1-10
1990: 6-4-1
1991: 7-4
1992: 9-3
1993: 10-3
1994: 8-4
1995: 7-5

1996: 10-2
1997: 10-1

After getting to 10-3 in Year 6, Mack then regresses in Year 7 and regresses further in Year 8, before ramping back up to 10-win seasons in Year 9 and Year 10.

This blip season we're currently enduring (greatly exacerbated by injuries) is annoying, but it's far from unusual.
Mack's "regression" is Fedora's norm though. I'm really not trying to insult Fedora here, just trying to say comparing him to Mack, who is probably our best coach, doesn't make sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoNtheDistance
Mack's "regression" is Fedora's norm though. I'm really not trying to insult Fedora here, just trying to say comparing him to Mack, who is probably our best coach, doesn't make sense.
Fedora is probably our second best coach, since 1972.....

So I think the comparison is fine. I'm not saying LF is as good a coach as MB was, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
bottom line: fedora is 41-30 at unc, not impressive to say the least. he is either not recruiting much talent or he is not developing that talent. take your pick. the worst insult may be to say that he is recruiting well and developing players well. if that's true then 41-30 is a disgrace -- a severe indictment of his game planning and game management.
"not recruiting much talent" - does the NCAA stuff have any impact? I personally believe recruiting would've been better if the NCAA stuff hadn't happened. We'd have about 10 to 15 more bodies on the team and the quality of recruits would've been better. Plenty of guys were scared away by the negative recruiting tactics by opposing coaches in both bball and fball.
 
Mack's "regression" is Fedora's norm though. I'm really not trying to insult Fedora here, just trying to say comparing him to Mack, who is probably our best coach, doesn't make sense.
Correction, Mack was our best recruiter of players and coaches, but hardly a great coach. Guy can sell ice to eskimos though.
 
Correction, Mack was our best recruiter of players and coaches, but hardly a great coach. Guy can sell ice to eskimos though.
A good coach knows when to delegate to his assistants and hires good assistants. Mack did both. And in college ball recruiting players is the biggest part of the job. I'll take another Mack any day of the week. Actually, now that I think about it how old is he? Let's bring his ass out of retirement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TarHeelMark
Fed will most likely be 42-35 after we finish the season 2-10(if we beat WCU). Time for a change.
I know you think I'm an idiot, so I'm not going to bother debating you on this. But your view is wrong on this issue. Sometimes a season just goes south.

This season is quite similar to the 2009-2010 Heels basketball season. Massive loss of key personnel from the year before, and then unforeseen attrition happening during the season rendering the team unable to beat even middling teams.

These blips happen. If we suck this bad next season, THEN it will be appropriate to discuss Fedora being on the hot seat. Not now.
 
Nobody thinks you are an idiot TH11. I did shit myself a little when you said Trubisky wasn't a big time recruit though.

All kidding aside, you have your view. I have mine. Same for others on either side. Fedora just isnt getting it done and the runway for the future looks equally as troubling.
 
Nobody thinks you are an idiot TH11. I did shit myself a little when you said Trubisky wasn't a big time recruit though.

All kidding aside, you have your view. I have mine. Same for others on either side. Fedora just isnt getting it done and the runway for the future looks equally as troubling.
We have different definitions of "big time recruit." Trubisky was not a big-time recruit IMO. I consider a "big time recruit" at QB a top 3 QB in the nation. I.E. Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence from the 2018 class. As for the rest of your long poast above, I haven't had time to craft a response yet. I will do so tomorrow.

And I assure you, archer2 thinks I'm an idiot lol. I'm okay with that though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
Unless Venables wants the job (hint. he doesn't) then Fedora doesn't need to go anywhere. These rebuilding years happen, and when you have 15 season ending injuries, things get ugly quick.
 
Actually, I've never thought you were an idiot. You're very passionate about UNC football and I love to see that. We just have differing opinions, especially re: Fed. That's fine.

I happen to think next year will be a sub .500 year for football. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Remember those odd yrs where Trubisky got every third series? He ended that so-so, and with a horrible pick-6 To say he didn't improve is silly
I recall Marquise Williams at the same time as an up and down QB with far more obvious limitations than Trubisky had.
 
What about the development of Thomas Jackson, another walk-on. 1 TD vs Cal. 4 Catches for 75 yards and a TD vs Louisville. 2 more catches in the 1st half before getting hurt vs ODU. And last from the FSU gm, forward, he was making a big 1st down or TD every game.

I'd bring up Proehl but instead of saying he came in highly recruited, you'd say his Dad is the reason he's so successful in this offense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ticket2ride04
I recall Marquise Williams at the same time as an up and down QB with far more obvious limitations than Trubisky had.
I recall MW playing with a poor defense yet leading us to 10 straight wins, destroying offensive records along the way and coming within a 'good referee' of having a minute with the ball beat Clemson in the ACC champ. Why would you trade that? Unless you are positive MT wins that Clemson gm, why would you trade what we had? Nobody was going to beat Baylor.
 
Actually, I've never thought you were an idiot. You're very passionate about UNC football and I love to see that. We just have differing opinions, especially re: Fed. That's fine.

I happen to think next year will be a sub .500 year for football. I hope I'm wrong.
That is not my fear. I think that if this year is a 2 or 3 Win season and next year is another losing season, that Fedora will get fired.

My fear is that next year we have a Bunting-like 6-6 bowl team, and even though Fedora loses yet another bowl game, he is brought back for 2019. After all, 6-6 (7) after a 2 or 3 win season is progress. That is what was accepted, including by many fans, after Bunting's 4th season.

Even Bunting could do something that Fedora can't: beat an SEC team that has a winning record.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoNtheDistance
I recall MW playing with a poor defense yet leading us to 10 straight wins, destroying offensive records along the way and coming within a 'good referee' of having a minute with the ball beat Clemson in the ACC champ. Why would you trade that? Unless you are positive MT wins that Clemson gm, why would you trade what we had? Nobody was going to beat Baylor.
Don't do that.
 
I recall MW playing with a poor defense yet leading us to 10 straight wins, destroying offensive records along the way and coming within a 'good referee' of having a minute with the ball beat Clemson in the ACC champ. Why would you trade that? Unless you are positive MT wins that Clemson gm, why would you trade what we had? Nobody was going to beat Baylor.
MW never should have started in 2015. As he was up and down in 2014, he should have been replaced by Trubisky during that season.

When MW shat the bed against SoCar early and later, Trubisky should have been given the noid for the entire 2nd half. We would have won that game.

The program has never been right in terms of full cohesion and unity and satisfied players since the end of that season. When what a program takes away from an 11 win season is a whole lot of negative, a lot of player dissension and dissatisfaction, then something went badly wrong during that season that most likely began before it started.

MW and his posse and their demands and Fedora caving 'to keep the locker room' are central to continuing team turmoil. I no longer think Fedora can clean up the mess he made and make UNC football what it should be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoNtheDistance
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT