Fedora

[GoNtheDistance]

not sure what to say other than he needs to be gone. We were at best a .500 team this year pre injury but once I saw our QB play I knew we weren't even close to that. Injuries have helped take us from not good at all to just plain pathetic. That being said, we continue to be the most undisciplined team, and Fed and staff continue to show poorly in basic game management. Literally the end of the first half today was an absolute embarrassment on the 2 calls that led to he safety. Even the announcers were trying their best not to bury Fedora but it was hard not to say what the F is he doing. We will likely win 1 more game against WCU but even that isn't a guaranty at this point. What is worse is when you look at our runway the next few years and it's more of the same. Recruiting hasn't been great and we continue to get lower tier power 5 defensive talent which doesn't bode well for a defense that has been pure shit since Fedora has been here. Recruiting, scheme, game management and discipline are all on the coach. I can't name one of those that we are even mediocre at currently. None of us would keep our job if we were this piss poor on all the metrics in which we are measured. Fire his ass now.

 

[sctarheel30]

Just watched the end of the first half and can't believe it myself. Unbelievable

 

[Spaceytoyz]

If he stays clean and goes between 4-8 and 8-4 he is gold at a Basketball University..

 

[riverswe]

Larry came at a tough time and has endured even tougher times with our NCAA issues. He seems to be running a clean program, recruiting has been pretty good and we a good season recently. Because of the Butch issues I'm not sure how willing the university is to go all in for another big name coach. Larry might be our best option, at least for a while.

With that being said, Larry clearly needs some help in taking the next step. Too many of our issues (silly play calls, unsportsmanlike penalties, DBs not turning their heads, Oline ineffective, inability to pick up 3rd and short, ...) continue year after year. Not to mention the issues with managing the assistant coaches. Is Bubba doing anything to help Larry? Is it Bubba's job to? I've been skeptical of Larry but I really do hope it can work out but there is growth needed. I think Larry has a healthy ego and is probably as frustrated as anyone else with the performance. I don't think sitting back and blaming this year's injuries will solve our real problems. Any ideas of what could help us take the next step - given that it's not realistic that we change head coaches.

 

[Archer2]

I agree with the OP, I wish I didn't but I have to. One point I will debate is recruiting. I actually think he's recruited pretty well considering the never ending investigation. We simply have too much talent to be playing as ineptly as we are, even with all the injuries.

Things that are very obvious every time I watch us play:

We are extremely undisciplined, both in our assignments and in committing unnecessary penalties, often after the play. This is directly on the staff and should not be occurring in year six.

We are not fundamentally sound, especially in the area of tackling. I have never seen a team that tackled as poorly as we routinely do. When I evaluate a new staff, the first thing I look at is fundamentals. I don't see a team that is improving their fundamentals.

Coaching acumen is sorely lacking. The end of the first half is just the latest example of poor in game coaching decisions that occur routinely.

These are all directly related to the staff's ability. I was excited about Fed's hiring. I felt he would bring renewed enthusiasm to the program, and he did for a while. But his bark has turned out to be far worse than his bite. IOW, too much flash and too little substance. I think we can do better.

I'm just going to post this here as food for thought.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/10-underrated-and-overachieving-ncaa-football-coaches#1

 

[bleeduncblue]

Big hat, no cattle.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I think we can do better.

1. Who will we hire instead?
2. What about our football history leads you to believe this?

Not even saying you're wrong. Just don't know who we are going to get that's going to win us our division two times in six years. Nothing in our football history suggests our next hire will do that. But I, too, was furious about the coaching yesterday, while sitting in the stands. The safety debacle was just that, a debacle.

 

[Archer2]

Just because we continue to hire mediocre coaches, doesn't mean we should settle for that. Hell, with every bad hire, the odds increasingly are in our favor that we eventually get it right. Even a blind hog...

 

[gteeitup]

honestly, how can recruiting be considered a strength when they are either not developing year to year or they weren't evaluated properly to begin with?

taking small classes, signing receivers that aren't playing, linemen seemingly not getting better, linebackers unable to play consistently, and the secondary getting individual accolades but unable to play well as a unit.

this offense isn't difficult for a receiver.

 

[WoadBlue]

A few fans, and people at UNC with actual power, will look at last night's Michigan St upset of Michigan in Ann Arbor and conclude that Fedora can make the same turn around. Last year, Michigan St was 3-9. Dantonio has tuned that debacle around in short order.

The odds are against it.

First, Dantonio is a throw back, old style coach. Everything for him is about the oldest school fundamentals. A coach like that does not need 5* recruits, or a string of 4* recruits, in order to rebuild. He simply needs a year to get his young guys 'coached up,' which begins and ends with fundamentals, both for individuals and for team units. Hard work indeed gets the job done.

Fedora is anything but a fundamentals emphasis coach. Fedora is about flash and flair. And flash and flair coaches require flash and flair players, which usually means such coaches must out-recruit in order to win. And if they do not win big, then they cannot recruit well. not consistently, and not at all positions.

Second, our potential 2 Win season is closer to the Norm for Fedora than a 3 Win season was to the Norm for Dantonio. Before last year, Michigan St had 3 consecutive teams with double digit wins and final Top 10 rankings. Dantonio's 10 seasons (before this one) included: 5 double digit Win seasons; 3 conference championships; 1 division title and loss in the CCG; 1 season with 9 Wins; 4 teams that finished ranked Top 10; 4 consecutive bowl championships; proven to be able to beat Michigan State's biggest rivals.

Fedora at UNC: 0 ACC championships; 0 Top 10 finishes; only 1 ranked team (and that one lost its last 2 games); 3 consecutive bowl losses; since an 11 game winning streak, an 8 game losing streak to Power 5 conference members; since the 11 game winning streak, Fedora is only 9-12, and 2 of the Wins are against 1 AA teams; Dook is punking Fedora.

 

[WoadBlue]

honestly, how can recruiting be considered a strength when they are either not developing year to year or they weren't evaluated properly to begin with?

taking small classes, signing receivers that aren't playing, linemen seemingly not getting better, linebackers unable to play consistently, and the secondary getting individual accolades but unable to play well as a unit.

this offense isn't difficult for a receiver.

Exactly. We have poor player development

 

[WoadBlue]

1. Who will we hire instead?
2. What about our football history leads you to believe this?

Not even saying you're wrong. Just don't know who we are going to get that's going to win us our division two times in six years. Nothing in our football history suggests our next hire will do that. But I, too, was furious about the coaching yesterday, while sitting in the stands. The safety debacle was just that, a debacle.

The 3 I would want to talk to about taking the job, one from each of three categories: current P5 HC; current P5 Coordinator; current non-P5 HC.

Mike Leach, Brent Venables, Neal Brown

Perhaps none of them would want the job. But I'd like to know.

 

[Archer2]

Mike Norvell.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

The 3 I would want to talk to about taking the job, one from each of three categories: current P5 HC; current P5 Coordinator; current non-P5 HC.

Mike Leach, Brent Venables, Neal Brown

Perhaps none of them would want the job. But I'd like to know.

You answered your own question for the first two.

Mike Leach: He's rebuilt Washington State from NOTHING and has them inside the 10. He's got that program rolling. Zero chance he would come here when he's just now seeing the fruits of his labor.
Brent Venables: Back-to-back national championship-caliber defense. He can go anywhere he wants that has an opening. He isn't coming here where he'd have to compete against the defense he's built.
Neal Brown: Yeah, he'd come here. But the fanbase isn't going to respond to another spread hire.

All this conjecture is moot, regardless, because Fedora isn't going anywhere. He just got an extension.

 

[UNC1971Stick]

You answered your own question for the first two.

Mike Leach: He's rebuilt Washington State from NOTHING and has them inside the 10. He's got that program rolling. Zero chance he would come here when he's just now seeing the fruits of his labor.
Brent Venables: Back-to-back national championship-caliber defense. He can go anywhere he wants that has an opening. He isn't coming here where he'd have to compete against the defense he's built.
Neal Brown: Yeah, he'd come here. But the fanbase isn't going to respond to another spread hire.

All this conjecture is moot, regardless, because Fedora isn't going anywhere. He just got an extension.

 

[UNC1971Stick]

6-6 keeps Fedora here 4ever!!!!!!! Without the injuries this year, he goes 6-6. With the injuries, 4-8 may be the best achieveable. ODU, WCU, Pitt and UVa with Pitt and UVa being less than a 50-50 for us in each game. I just hope Moo U doesn't beat us 63-0.

 

[midline]

You answered your own question for the first two.

Mike Leach: He's rebuilt Washington State from NOTHING and has them inside the 10. He's got that program rolling. Zero chance he would come here when he's just now seeing the fruits of his labor.
Brent Venables: Back-to-back national championship-caliber defense. He can go anywhere he wants that has an opening. He isn't coming here where he'd have to compete against the defense he's built.
Neal Brown: Yeah, he'd come here. But the fanbase isn't going to respond to another spread hire.

All this conjecture is moot, regardless, because Fedora isn't going anywhere. He just got an extension.

Disagree about Leach. He has WSU as good right now as they are ever going to be. Follow the Jimmy Johnson rule. Build it up, then leave for a better opportunity because the fans will forget what you built from nothing and then want you fired when you can't win one more game every year. And UNC has the cash to be a player in football, but with basketball the focal point does anyone really care unless the program is just embarrassing? If they do care then Fedora needs to be gone. Got lucky at So Miss with a couple good years that made him that years "hot coach" that got him this job. But ask those folks in Hattisburg how they liked the talent cupboard being bare when he left. Have always though Fedora was a lot more sizzle than steak. But being mediocre in football may be OK at UNC. If that is the case, he is your guy.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Disagree about Leach. He has WSU as good right now as they are ever going to be. Follow the Jimmy Johnson rule. Build it up, then leave for a better opportunity because the fans will forget what you built from nothing and then want you fired when you can't win one more game every year. And UNC has the cash to be a player in football, but with basketball the focal point does anyone really care unless the program is just embarrassing? If they do care then Fedora needs to be gone. Got lucky at So Miss with a couple good years that made him that years "hot coach" that got him this job. But ask those folks in Hattisburg how they liked the talent cupboard being bare when he left. Have always though Fedora was a lot more sizzle than steak. But being mediocre in football may be OK at UNC. If that is the case, he is your guy.

Of course being mediocre is okay in football. Look at our history. We let John Bunting stay here year after year with just terrible results.

Look at this free football board as a microcosm of our football fan support. This board is DEAD, always, and it's not just because we are bad this year. It's always dead. Yes, the premium board has good activity, but those are the diehards. This board is dead and the basketball board is very active 365. Too many fans just don't care enough about football, and it's sad.

 

[skubby12002]

A big thing that concerns me is player development. Why didn't we see backup WR more last year. The staff knew they were all SR's but chose to play them all the time. If our QB gets hurts see above. If our OL gets hurt see above. They only played three LB's last year. See above. Only position they are willing to change out regularly is CBs (get burnt constantly) Wait are they trying to lose on purpose....Maybe!! I know anyone that makes the money they make is good at their craft, so if they aren't stupid what's the deal. I can't figure this out for the life of me except they are throwing games on purpose. Same mistakes over and over and over. I can't come to any other conclusion but that one.

 

[Archer2]

Once again, the fans get blamed for Fed's ineptitude. Sheesh!

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Once again, the fans get blamed for Fed's ineptitude. Sheesh!

lol

 

[dgheel57]

If he stays clean and goes between 4-8 and 8-4 he is gold at a Basketball University..

BS,UNC want's to win at all sports including Bball fans.Fedora needs to scrap the West coast crap and concentrate on building a DEFENSE.It showed big time how undermanned our team has been on both lines vs Baylor.....They were bigger and stronger.With a mediocre defense,how the hell you gonna outscore your opponent?

 

[TarHeelNation11]

BS,UNC want's to win at all sports including Bball fans.Fedora needs to scrap the West coast crap and concentrate on building a DEFENSE.It showed big time how undermanned our team has been on both lines vs Baylor.....They were bigger and stronger.

We don't run a West Coast offense. Right now we run a nothing offense

 

[GoNtheDistance]

West coast offense? Should call
Our offense the reverse offense. We go backwards more than we go forwards.

 

[franklin street]

Just because we continue to hire mediocre coaches, doesn't mean we should settle for that. Hell, with every bad hire, the odds increasingly are in our favor that we eventually get it right. Even a blind hog...

this my line of thinking everytime i buy a scratch off ticket.

 

[strummingram]

I was watching the Louisville/Moo game last Thursday, and Carter-Finley was bulging full just like I see Death Valley here in Clemson even when they play Troy or SC State. I was shocked to see State's football stadium look like Clemson's.

And, Kenan hasn't looked that full in about four... ever.

UNC is a basketball school. They're a very DOMINANT basketball school. Kentucky, Kansas, UConn, and usually Duke are all pretty ho-hum, if not down-right horrible, in football. I think it is actually pretty difficult to totally dominate in BOTH major men's sports. I don't know of many schools that do it year-in and year-out.

While I empathize with everyone, and I wish UNC had a football program as famous as its basketball program... it simply doesn't. 2015 was one of those rare seasons when they caught lightning in a bottle. Enjoy it, but don't expect it. And, be happy and thankful that you are a fan of a school who does actually dominate in one of the sports.

 

[Deezheelz]

No matter how anyone explains it there is just no reason why Carolina shouldn't be a top 20 program in football. None!!!

 

[Bickett]

Let's take a step back and look at the last six years. Fedora enters late 2011 and inherits sanctions that adversely impact his ability to recruit and reduce available scholarships by five in 2012,2013, and 2014. A lot of walkons are used to fill voids, but recruiting class rankings were reasonable considering the circumstances. A lot of players had to play right away because of numbers and the lack of redshirts and the significant number of key injuries is showing the impact of 2012-2014. There are only 3 redshirt seniors and 7 redshirt juniors on the roster starting the season. But the number begins to move back up to 12 and 16 for the 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes. The hole created by the sanctions has been magnified by the extreme number of injuries, but the level of young talent being recruiting over the last three years has been good and the future very good

 

[uncboy10]

Let's take a step back and look at the last six years. Fedora enters late 2011 and inherits sanctions that adversely impact his ability to recruit and reduce available scholarships by five in 2012,2013, and 2014. A lot of walkons are used to fill voids, but recruiting class rankings were reasonable considering the circumstances. A lot of players had to play right away because of numbers and the lack of redshirts and the significant number of key injuries is showing the impact of 2012-2014. There are only 3 redshirt seniors and 7 redshirt juniors on the roster starting the season. But the number begins to move back up to 12 and 16 for the 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes. The hole created by the sanctions has been magnified by the extreme number of injuries, but the level of young talent being recruiting over the last three years has been good and the future very good

Good post. Don't wait another 15 years.

 

[Archer2]

No one is expecting a top 10 team. But a top 25 team that plays solid football isn't asking too much.

 

[blazers]

A big thing that concerns me is player development. Why didn't we see backup WR more last year. The staff knew they were all SR's but chose to play them all the time. If our QB gets hurts see above. If our OL gets hurt see above. They only played three LB's last year. See above. Only position they are willing to change out regularly is CBs (get burnt constantly) Wait are they trying to lose on purpose....Maybe!! I know anyone that makes the money they make is good at their craft, so if they aren't stupid what's the deal. I can't figure this out for the life of me except they are throwing games on purpose. Same mistakes over and over and over. I can't come to any other conclusion but that one.

Regarding WR -We were in a shoot-out most games cuz our D was a sieve, so that could be a reason why ARW and Cunningham didn't steal some reps from Bug and Switz. But Thomas Jackson got plenty of reps (of course Proehl did as well)

ARW is still kinda raw, so that might be part of it. As for everyone not named ARW, they just aren't very good.

Regarding OL - Most teams don't rotate linemen much. Sweet got in there some in breaks for Jon Heck. Polino came in rarely, but everyone else was redshirting or hurt except for Charlie Heck - he didn't play much at all. But again, we're in shoot-out mode.

Regarding LB, J Smith is kinda slow footed. Until his instincts are super sharp, he's going to be a step late. JB Copeland got hurt. Dom Ross was too skinny for anything but third & long. That just leaves Sutton, and for some reason I don't think coaches are super fond of him as an LB, since J Smith jumped him on the depth chart.

Nathan Elliot played very little, probably should've played more vs UVA, GTech and Citadel, but if he can't beat out Chazz or Brandon Harris, maybe the coaches didn't have much hope, and it was probably mid-season when they started to realize that Mitch might jump early.

 

[blazers]

6-6 keeps Fedora here 4ever!!!!!!! Without the injuries this year, he goes 6-6. With the injuries, 4-8 may be the best achieveable. ODU, WCU, Pitt and UVa with Pitt and UVa being less than a 50-50 for us in each game. I just hope Moo U doesn't beat us 63-0.

I bet 6 wins could've happened with zero injuries, but just barely. We were winning the 4th quarter of our first three games. Adding Sweet, a healthy Spain, Hatton/Cohen at least would've given Surratt and the RBs a little more room. And Surratt would at least have a few more safety valves receiver-wise, so maybe wins over duke and cal could've happened. Maybe even GT given how well the D played first half.

I hate to pick but so many sacks have been given up with Prince whiffing. I know the calls are coming in late, or the center and guys are miscommunicating, or perhaps the guy next to him is actually the break-down, but you gotta think Hatton/Cohen could've helped.

cal, gt, dook, odu, wcu and maybe pitt or uva...

 

[WoadBlue]

I was watching the Louisville/Moo game last Thursday, and Carter-Finley was bulging full just like I see Death Valley here in Clemson even when they play Troy or SC State. I was shocked to see State's football stadium look like Clemson's.

And, Kenan hasn't looked that full in about four... ever.

UNC is a basketball school. They're a very DOMINANT basketball school. Kentucky, Kansas, UConn, and usually Duke are all pretty ho-hum, if not down-right horrible, in football. I think it is actually pretty difficult to totally dominate in BOTH major men's sports. I don't know of many schools that do it year-in and year-out.

While I empathize with everyone, and I wish UNC had a football program as famous as its basketball program... it simply doesn't. 2015 was one of those rare seasons when they caught lightning in a bottle. Enjoy it, but don't expect it. And, be happy and thankful that you are a fan of a school who does actually dominate in one of the sports.

So, is it impossible to fill Kenan, or is it possible with the right coach?

I lean to the latter.

No, we cannot to become the next Bama, which is what having football as good as our basketball would mean. But with the right coach, we would be a bowl team virtually every year and become a ranked team most years.

When Mack left, Dick Baddour stupidly allowed the team, primarily the D, to pick Carl Torbush as HC. Baddour failed to fire Torbush after his 2nd year (an epic collapse, rather like this season), and then when he fired him after year 3, he STUPIDLY ignored Mark Richt to hire John Bunting. When it came to football, Dean Smith's beloved Dick Baddour was stupid 24/7/365, year after year. So naturally he kept Bunting after his disastrous 2nd season (3-9) and his even worse 3rd season (2-10). Baddour cursed us with 6 years of Bunting.

I don't think the fan base has ever recovered. Yes, during Butch's years, we saw better attendance, but many fas retained a sense of foreboding. And they were not nuts. Key figures wanted Butch gone ASAP. And when they got their way, many football fans just collapsed.

Fedora has not lit a fire under UNC fans. And this season will only make more us see him as a luckier, more boisterous Bunting with a different style of offense.

 

[WoadBlue]

A big thing that concerns me is player development. Why didn't we see backup WR more last year. The staff knew they were all SR's but chose to play them all the time. If our QB gets hurts see above. If our OL gets hurt see above. They only played three LB's last year. See above. Only position they are willing to change out regularly is CBs (get burnt constantly) Wait are they trying to lose on purpose....Maybe!! I know anyone that makes the money they make is good at their craft, so if they aren't stupid what's the deal. I can't figure this out for the life of me except they are throwing games on purpose. Same mistakes over and over and over. I can't come to any other conclusion but that one.

Player development is a major weakness. And it is not just those who don't get into games. Marquise Williams made the same type 'freshman QB' mistakes as a 5th year Senior that he made in his first starts. That's the reason he has never had a short to make even a CFL team. Fedora and staff never developed Trubisky - they refused to play him until they had to.

Under Fedora, we not halfway developed a single RB. They leave insignificantly better than they were in their first games.

Clearly, we are not developing linemen, on either side of the ball.

 

[WoadBlue]

You answered your own question for the first two.

Mike Leach: He's rebuilt Washington State from NOTHING and has them inside the 10. He's got that program rolling. Zero chance he would come here when he's just now seeing the fruits of his labor.
Brent Venables: Back-to-back national championship-caliber defense. He can go anywhere he wants that has an opening. He isn't coming here where he'd have to compete against the defense he's built.
Neal Brown: Yeah, he'd come here. But the fanbase isn't going to respond to another spread hire.

All this conjecture is moot, regardless, because Fedora isn't going anywhere. He just got an extension.

Here is the interesting part about Brown as a spread offense coach: he says that he learned he had to play old fashioned football to beat good teams consistently. In every interview after the LSU game, he stressed that his team won with a running game - meaning RBs, not a QB - and not a single tric play. His team lined up and played old schol football and beat LSU.

Fedora can't even beat the worst SoCar team in years.

Fedora is caught, trapped, in blind faith in his offense. Neal Brown is not so enthralled. Brown is capable of growth.

As for Leach - he knows nobody watches Pac football, or listens to their coaches talk. And Leach loves TV audience. He knows Miami is about to be back, and taking on Miami in the Coastal as an underdog with much less football history would be right up his alley.

UNC could be perfect for Venables: those players on D he has recruited and developed? Almost all of them could have been recruited to UNC if we had the right coaches. Clemson to UNC would be a natural move for a 1st time HC.

The right AD could sell those points to those coaches.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Here is the interesting part about Brown as a spread offense coach: he says that he learned he had to play old fashioned football to beat good teams consistently. In every interview after the LSU game, he stressed that his team won with a running game - meaning RBs, not a QB - and not a single tric play. His team lined up and played old schol football and beat LSU.

Fedora can't even beat the worst SoCar team in years.

Fedora is caught, trapped, in blind faith in his offense. Neal Brown is not so enthralled. Brown is capable of growth.

As for Leach - he knows nobody watches Pac football, or listens to their coaches talk. And Leach loves TV audience. He knows Miami is about to be back, and taking on Miami in the Coastal as an underdog with much less football history would be right up his alley.

UNC could be perfect for Venables: those players on D he has recruited and developed? Almost all of them could have been recruited to UNC if we had the right coaches. Clemson to UNC would be a natural move for a 1st time HC.

The right AD could sell those points to those coaches.

You're nuts if you think Leach's shtick would work here. Our donors and alums would want him gone the second he went on one of his diatribe press conferences after a loss.

 

[tarheel0910]

I was watching the Louisville/Moo game last Thursday, and Carter-Finley was bulging full just like I see Death Valley here in Clemson even when they play Troy or SC State. I was shocked to see State's football stadium look like Clemson's.

Why were you shocked? It was a nationally televised Thursday night game and they are ranked. I always find it funny when UNC fans think moo has a better fan base. It's a running joke on pack pride about how their fans leave at halftime to go back and tailgate instead of watching the game.

 

[strummingram]

Why were you shocked? It was a nationally televised Thursday night game and they are ranked. I always find it funny when UNC fans think moo has a better fan base. It's a running joke on pack pride about how their fans leave at halftime to go back and tailgate instead of watching the game.

I guess it was more like disappointed that Kenan is never that packed, even for nationally-televised games... at least none that I've ever seen recently.

I never said that State had a "better" fan base. They do seem to have a fuller stadium at football games. "Better" is subjective. They're just people, like UNC fans are just people.

 

[tarheel0910]

I guess it was more like disappointed that Kenan is never that packed, even for nationally-televised games... at least none that I've ever seen recently.

I never said that State had a "better" fan base. They do seem to have a fuller stadium at football games. "Better" is subjective. They're just people, like UNC fans are just people.

The Thursday night games vs UM and FSU were packed

 

[blazers]

Player development is a major weakness. And it is not just those who don't get into games. Marquise Williams made the same type 'freshman QB' mistakes as a 5th year Senior that he made in his first starts. That's the reason he has never had a short to make even a CFL team. Fedora and staff never developed Trubisky - they refused to play him until they had to.

Under Fedora, we not halfway developed a single RB. They leave insignificantly better than they were in their first games.

Clearly, we are not developing linemen, on either side of the ball.

Never developed Trubisky? The guys starting MNF tonight?

Never developed a single RB? Like Hood the guy who had 17 TDs as a sophomore. That is a ton of TDs for a soph.

Not developing linemen - like Nazair who developed so well he left a yr early for 3rd round draft? Heck, even Mikey Bart went from being a low-star TE/DE to getting onto two different team's pre-season rosters despite a super-slow combine forty time. Someone that slow only gets to that stage by coaching, motor, hardwork and being strong.