Hard to believe that 4 of the 5 starters on this team went to the NCAA National Championship!

[strummingram]

I realize Brady Manek was a huge piece in that lineup. And, I realize that preseason #1 was something that this team was not worthy of and never should have been preseason #1.

But, when you look at the teams that came back after 08, 16, etc., you did NOT see a total drop-off like this from the returning players. Those teams were at least ranked and played their asses off, like their lives depended on it. This group??? They just don't seem to have anywhere near the same urgency or dedication.

And, these are VETERAN players! A 5th year Sr, a 4th year Sr (ACC POY level), and two juniors??? These guys went to the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME! And, there is definitely enough talent on the bench (a lot that were also in that game) to make this team a formidable contender.

I don't know how you can reach such a level and then just stroll through the next season and lose game after game. Maybe it's the price for the two dookie classics of Coach Ks final and the FF sending him home on a loss. Act like you've been there before!

 

[gobblercalls]

Harder for me to believe that this coach took them there,

 

[strummingram]

Harder for me to believe that this coach took them there,

Hubert Davis knows better than all of them. He wants it, but he can't make THEM want it like he does.

However, I noticed that he said in the post-game PC that he doesn't think about what happened last year. I find that hard to believe. He knows too well what it's like to get there and want to get back.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

the fact that Hubert has obviously created a culture where there is no consequences for poor decisions, poor shot selection, etc is something that will define his short lived coaching career. never seen a player at this level at UNC like Love continue to do the same shit game in and game out and no consequences for him. Never gets pulled or sent to the bench. Never, not once. He gives marginal effort at best on defense, and continues to shoot 20% from 3 with no regard for what’s best for the team. hopefully he’s auditioning for the transfer portal. he’s not wanted here.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Hubert should be thinking about last season.. maybe then he will realize what is happening here.. but the OP is 1000% right, no other returning Carolina team has ever been this bad.. '16 team lost in championship game and came back the next season as a 1 seed and won the title. This has been a pathetic showing for everyone involved. They play like freshman who have no clue what they're doing. This has probably been the worst UNC team (including Roy's last few years) than I have ever seen. Because expectations were so high and we have a lot of talent. At least Roy's last few years he has excuses on why they were so bad unlike this team who literally has ZERO excuses. Talent on paper doesn't always translate on the basketball court, I understand, but on paper, tell me where the weak spot on this team is? Just a piss more team... can't go by player ratings.

 

[imajericho]

The teams you are talking about were different. The UNC team that lost to Nova was a high ranked team. This team was an 8th seed. If anything, we are playing exactly as you would expect us to based off last season.

 

[midline]

I thought this team would mature from last year, but it hasn’t. It is what it was last year. On the few occasions where Caleb goes off, they can beat anybody. But those nights are few and far between. Then you are left with a stable force in Bacot, who sometimes is ignored as others try to fulfill their role as supposed superstars. And I think it is obvious by now that Hubert has zero control over this bunch. They just seem to do what they want without any effective correction. Or worse, the players totally ignore those corrections and are allowed to continue playing. And as fans, and maybe the coaching staff is guilty as well, is we have overvalued the talent on this team. I am not sure there is a player that gets meaningful playing time that will be an NBA player. 40 years ago Bacot would be a lottery pick. But those days have long passed. The NBA has little use for a player who would be a liability on both ends of the floor more than 10 feet away from the basket. Caleb? He has been auditioning for the NBA from the moment he stepped on campus and I think in his mind he was sure he would be one and done. That he is still here tells a lot about what the NBA thinks of his chances. RJ is small and doesn’t possess any special talent that makes anyone at his size that attractive. Nance is hardly the player that we hoped he would be. Add all of this together with Hubert’s total inability to control their constant bed decisions and we have what we have. Just roll the balls out, hope that Caleb has one of those odd nights where all of his questionable shots are going in, and maybe beat somebody of relevance. Now do I think Hubert is on the hot seat? Not yet. But if things don’t improve and this team doesn’t make the tourney I could see it getting a little warm next year. And it should. But despite the fact that this was Roy’s chosen successor, if things don’t greatly improve next year there will be some powerful voices behind the scene asking Bubba some tough questions. Regardless of pedigree, this is UNC basketball. It is about winning and a standard of excellence. Right now I don’t see any signs that point to that or of playing the Carolina way.

 

[kjcooper]

Davis can, and will be fully accountable when he has players which he recruited playing. This group is a collections of me players, and they do not want to play as a team. Granted Davis could sit them, but who on the bench would be ready to step forward. It's a unique situation with Davis, he realize that he has to win based upon the pedigree of being the coach at Carolina. Maybe, he will not be provided the lease which Dean and Roy were afforded when they first arrived. Willing to allow him the opportunity to coach players which he recruited, and judge him on how they respond to his coaching.

 

[strummingram]

Davis can, and will be fully accountable when he has players which he recruited playing. This group is a collections of me players, and they do not want to play as a team. Granted Davis could sit them, but who on the bench would be ready to step forward. It's a unique situation with Davis, he realize that he has to win based upon the pedigree of being the coach at Carolina. Maybe, he will not be provided the lease which Dean and Roy were afforded when they first arrived. Willing to allow him the opportunity to coach players which he recruited, and judge him on how they respond to his coaching.

Didn't HD help recruit these guys? He's been recruiting players at UNC for a long time.

 

[heels05champs]

Davis can, and will be fully accountable when he has players which he recruited playing. This group is a collections of me players, and they do not want to play as a team. Granted Davis could sit them, but who on the bench would be ready to step forward. It's a unique situation with Davis, he realize that he has to win based upon the pedigree of being the coach at Carolina. Maybe, he will not be provided the lease which Dean and Roy were afforded when they first arrived. Willing to allow him the opportunity to coach players which he recruited, and judge him on how they respond to his coaching.

I understand what you’re saying but keep in mind that the dudes he is bringing in for that 24’ class are OAD types. Generally speaking, they tend to have a “me” mentality to get to the pros as quick as possible.

And if as a coach you don’t set the tone now then what will make the players next in line respect HD when they’ve watched him allow Love to do whatever he wants when he wants to the detriment of the team?

 

[kjcooper]

Didn't HD help recruit these guys? He's been recruiting players at UNC for a long time.

At Roy's discretion.

 

[kjcooper]

I understand what you’re saying but keep in mind that the dudes he is bringing in for that 24’ class are OAD types. Generally speaking, they tend to have a “me” mentality to get to the pros as quick as possible.

And if as a coach you don’t set the tone now then what will make the players next in line respect HD when they’ve watched him allow Love to do whatever he wants when he wants to the detriment of the team?

Not so sure that all of the group will be one and done, even if they are that type. If he sits Love, who does he has to replace him, Seth is not ready, Dunn is not ready?

 

[gberry78]

I don’t disagree there are times Love needs to see the bench but who are you bringing in? Trimble whose has shown little offensive prowess or Dunn who has shown flashes but hasn’t proven he create his own scoring opportunities.. Puff who can’t stay healthy & has been inconsistent shooting..The bench is full of average guys, this team just isn’t that talented. This team needs an athletic wing that can get to the rim and get some easier buckets

 

[sctarheel30]

Same team we have watched for the last three years. Very low basketball IQ. Don’t expect much unless they get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle again.

 

[sctarheel30]

Hindsight being what it is…..
Losing Brady hurt like crazy but also missing out on the transfer from South Dakota state hurt too. Fingers crossed we can get lucky again.

 

[Quest4Seven]

Nance is Dawson Garcia where he just doesnt fit in. I think alot of issues would go away putting him on the bench and giving all those minutes to Puff

 

[imajericho]

We don't have the 4 Hubert wants for the system. And with him dedicated to Leaky at the 3, we can't do much about it.

 

[DSouthr]

Nance is Dawson Garcia where he just doesnt fit in. I think alot of issues would go away putting him on the bench and giving all those minutes to Puff

For a different reason for sure but Nance's fit is very Garcia like even if the reason for their being ill fits is different. I would start Puff and back him up (quickly if he struggles) with heavy helpings of Jalen and Nickel and ride the hot hand of the guy that steps up. Nance would be done playing the 4 and I would not be having my 5 stretch.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Here's the Pollyanna view....

We're only 1 game worse than were were last year at this time.

We had just lost to Duke at home by 20 points!

We only lost 3 games after that - the shocker against Pitt, the ACCT loss to a good VaTech, and the national championship game.

Sure, it's frustrating that we didn't stay #1 - or even in the top 25 - but Pomeroy rated us #47 after last year's Duke loss. We're sitting at #36 now. Take that for what it's worth.

We have a really tough road the rest of the way, starting with these 3.

Wake @ Wake
Clemson @ home
Miami @ home

The good news there is that Clemson and Miami are at home. We can win all these.

We're not going the rest of the regular season undefeated. But we could go 6-2 or better. That would be good for 21-10 overall and 13-7 in conference. No double-bye in the ACCT, because apparently we lose the tie-breakers, but still pretty good. A couple wins in the ACCT and we have a 6-8 seed in the NCAAT.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

For a different reason for sure but Nance's fit is very Garcia like even if the reason for their being ill fits is different. I would start Puff and back him up (quickly if he struggles) with heavy helpings of Jalen and Nickel and ride the hot hand of the guy that steps up. Nance would be done playing the 4 and I would not be having my 5 stretch.

I wanted us to get Nance.

Now, I'd rather have Dawson.

 

[Tarheels39]

What is needed more,
better players?
better coach?

 

[Championheels]

Will to win and play

 

[heels05champs]

Nance is Dawson Garcia where he just doesnt fit in. I think alot of issues would go away putting him on the bench and giving all those minutes to Puff

Been saying this for a while. Nance is a college 5. We already have our 5 who will get 35+ mpg. So, instead of bringing him off the bench, HD is forcing a square peg in a round hole. Nance is being asked to play on the perimeter and he neither has the athleticism or dribbling ability to work from there. And he’s not a knock down shooter, so him being in with Bacot really complicates the offensive flow.

 

[imajericho]

Honestly our offense was bad when Nance was the 5 when Bacot got hurt also lol.

 

[iwish]

On a "positive" (sorry, choking a little bit here as typing it) note: Lost 8 games by a total of 43 points. Iowa State by 5, Bama by 2 in OT, VA by 7 on the road, Pitt twice by 2 and 1, and now Duke by 6 on the road.

On the other hand, baffling at times on some of these losses. For me, this experienced, older, mature team should have beaten Duke by 5+ even o nthe road. I am still clinging to what I wrote on a different thread, which is that maybe this team is bored and waiting for the tourney. That said, we of course would hope they'd be fired up as can be to win at Duke.

We can (and most certainly will continue to...) bemoan the season all we want, second guess, point fingers, etc., but there is no doubt in my mind that this starts and ends with the players, not the coach. I am not saying HD is doing a "good" job by any stretch, but this team has the talent and experience to know better, play harder, work harder, and dig deeper. If they still require the coach to motivate them, well that's just a bit sad.

 

[strummingram]

On a "positive" (sorry, choking a little bit here as typing it) note: Lost 8 games by a total of 43 points. Iowa State by 5, Bama by 2 in OT, VA by 7 on the road, Pitt twice by 2 and 1, and now Duke by 6 on the road.

On the other hand, baffling at times on some of these losses. For me, this experienced, older, mature team should have beaten Duke by 5+ even o nthe road. I am still clinging to what I wrote on a different thread, which is that maybe this team is bored and waiting for the tourney. That said, we of course would hope they'd be fired up as can be to win at Duke.

We can (and most certainly will continue to...) bemoan the season all we want, second guess, point fingers, etc., but there is no doubt in my mind that this starts and ends with the players, not the coach. I am not saying HD is doing a "good" job by any stretch, but this team has the talent and experience to know better, play harder, work harder, and dig deeper. If they still require the coach to motivate them, well that's just a bit sad.

Last year, they were losing games by double digits. This year, the losses, and wins, have been close.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I thought this team would mature from last year, but it hasn’t. It is what it was last year. On the few occasions where Caleb goes off, they can beat anybody. But those nights are few and far between. Then you are left with a stable force in Bacot, who sometimes is ignored as others try to fulfill their role as supposed superstars. And I think it is obvious by now that Hubert has zero control over this bunch. They just seem to do what they want without any effective correction. Or worse, the players totally ignore those corrections and are allowed to continue playing. And as fans, and maybe the coaching staff is guilty as well, is we have overvalued the talent on this team. I am not sure there is a player that gets meaningful playing time that will be an NBA player. 40 years ago Bacot would be a lottery pick. But those days have long passed. The NBA has little use for a player who would be a liability on both ends of the floor more than 10 feet away from the basket. Caleb? He has been auditioning for the NBA from the moment he stepped on campus and I think in his mind he was sure he would be one and done. That he is still here tells a lot about what the NBA thinks of his chances. RJ is small and doesn’t possess any special talent that makes anyone at his size that attractive. Nance is hardly the player that we hoped he would be. Add all of this together with Hubert’s total inability to control their constant bed decisions and we have what we have. Just roll the balls out, hope that Caleb has one of those odd nights where all of his questionable shots are going in, and maybe beat somebody of relevance. Now do I think Hubert is on the hot seat? Not yet. But if things don’t improve and this team doesn’t make the tourney I could see it getting a little warm next year. And it should. But despite the fact that this was Roy’s chosen successor, if things don’t greatly improve next year there will be some powerful voices behind the scene asking Bubba some tough questions. Regardless of pedigree, this is UNC basketball. It is about winning and a standard of excellence. Right now I don’t see any signs that point to that or of playing the Carolina way.

Whew. That's a lot to say without taking a paragraph break or 3 to catch your breath between points. But you make some very good points.

I find myself wondering how much of this underperformance is down to the players and how much is down to coaching. I just don't know.

Not all of our players are underperforming. And some may be because of injuries. To me, our main underperformers at the moment are Caleb and Pete.

Caleb is clearly a talent. But he's hugely inconsistent. Is that him, or coaching? We all see it. Can't the coaches do something about it?

I'm convinced Pete is better than we get to see. I mean we see it sometimes, so it's there. No superstar but should be a solid, consistent player. I don't get the sense I do with Caleb that he's inconsistent. More that he's lost. I feel much more strongly that this is down to coaching. Does he need more plays run for him? Are we positioning him to succeed? Why doesn't he operate a lot more out of high post?

Right about now, I'm thinking Caleb comes back for his senior year. And I find myself wondering if that's good for the team?

It seems clear he came here expecting to be OAD. But things didn't work our as a frosh. He came close as a soph, with some great games down the stretch last season. I suspect the pro question came down to "can he do that on a regular basis" and they weren't willing to take the chance. Let him prove it.

Unfortunately, he hasn't proved it this year. Even if he catches on fire again, I think he faces the same question from the pros: "Can you be consistently good?"

So unless Caleb just wants to move on, ready or not, we should probably think about him being here next year.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Last year, they were losing games by double digits. This year, the losses, and wins, have been close.

Other things worth considering...

We ran into that 4-game losing streak early and many of us went ballistic. But if you look back at those losses, it turns out 3 out of the 4 are really good teams, and the other loss came with Armando out playing at VaTech.

OTOH, we got sky high when we nipped Ohio State in OT and then beat Michigan by 4. Good wins, but those teams weren't as good as we thought. OSU, despite being rated #35 by Pomeroy is on a 1-9 streak in the Big 10; while Michigan has slid to #57. Neither is currently in Lunardi's brackets.

And we just almost beat Duke at Duke. Disappointing, but not even slightly a shabby showing.

Somehow this team needs to pull together some more. Armando and RJ set a pretty solid foundation. The other guys need to firm up.

 

[strummingram]

They needa dead-eye shooter, and there are none of those on the team.

 

[Bubspub88]

I said at the beginning of the season that to me the big question was whether this team could be the hunted after last season’s run as the hunter. Obviously this team cannot. They lack the toughness and determination to take another team’s best shot and get up. I have no idea if that is player attitude, chemistry or coaching, all I know is that we ain’t got it.
Is another run possible, absolutely but I also wouldn’t be surprised at a 2nd round loss.

 

[randman1]

Maybe Hubert needs to sit Love a little more and explain that taking and missing so many shots hurts the team and please try to learn some better shot selection. Make it clear that at best he's looking at an overseas career if he can't learn that lesson and may be looking at that anyway.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Maybe Hubert needs to sit Love a little more and explain that taking and missing so many shots hurts the team and please try to learn some better shot selection. Make it clear that at best he's looking at an overseas career if he can't learn that lesson and may be looking at that anyway.

Caleb sometimes wins games for us. Which replacement on the bench can do that?

I think that's Hubert's dilemma. We have some good guys, but no one with that extra gear.

 

[alabamaheel]

Caleb sometimes wins games for us. Which replacement on the bench can do that?

I think that's Hubert's dilemma. We have some good guys, but no one with that extra gear.

You also forget that with his poor shot selection at various times, he’s the reason we are down and need a hero.

 

[tarheel0910]

I am still clinging to what I wrote on a different thread, which is that maybe this team is bored and waiting for the tourney.

Well, if they keep playing bored, that tournament is going to be the NIT.

 

[strummingram]

Well, if they keep playing bored, that tournament is going to be the NIT.

One of the biggest let-downs in cbb history. Imagine how inspired they'll play in that tournament.

 

[tarheel0910]

One of the biggest let-downs in cbb history. Imagine how inspired they'll play in that tournament.

I said before the season that expectations were too high because of obvious reasons. Hard for me to be let down since I knew it was a possibility. Just too many unknowns to fairly judge Hubert right now, much less after his first season.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Outside of RJ and Armando, this team lacks the talent needed to win at an elite level. Nance is terrible. Anyone who says otherwise is lost and delusional. Nance has the world's flattest shot, and his defense and rebounding are weak for his size. Love is a cancer who will shoot you out of game more times than he will win you games. And Leaky is just a poor offensive player to give you that boost when you need it. Armando lacks elite athleticism and struggles mightily against athletic big men. Nobody on this team is an elite 3 ball shooter or has that swag that is willing to take over a game. Caleb thinks he's that guy, but he's far from it. If Caleb makes a 3, he jacks up the most ridiculous 3 the very next possession.

 

[gobblercalls]

Outside of RJ and Armando, this team lacks the talent needed to win at an elite level. Nance is terrible. Anyone who says otherwise is lost and delusional. Nance has the world's flattest shot, and his defense and rebounding are weak for his size. Love is a cancer who will shoot you out of game more times than he will win you games. And Leaky is just a poor offensive player to give you that boost when you need it. Armando lacks elite athleticism and struggles mightily against athletic big men. Nobody on this team is an elite 3 ball shooter or has that swag that is willing to take over a game. Caleb thinks he's that guy, but he's far from it. If Caleb makes a 3, he jacks up the most ridiculous 3 the very next possession.

I think Leaky is fine as a starter. One problem is that there is no "instant offense" on the bench that can come in for him when we need it, or at least Hubert doesn't think there is. Also, if Love and Nance were producing Leaky's lack of offense would not be an issue. Those 2 are the main problems offensively.

 

[ChiShankCity]

I saw two pretty average basketball teams play this game. And the more gifted team playing at home won a close game. I didn't see anything I didn't already know about UNC.

 

[kjcooper]

I saw two pretty average basketball teams play this game. And the more gifted team playing at home won a close game. I didn't see anything I didn't already know about UNC.

That's true, Duke is not a juggernaut. They have two tough games coming up, which they will probably lose both. The ACC as a whole has some decent teams, which are currently beating up on each other. Therefore there is a thin line between winning and losing. Pitt for example has won some close games which they could have, or should have lost. The ACC tournament will be wide open this year, with all but 4 or 5 teams who could win it. But in reality all the conference's are having the same issue, Kansas losing, Gonzaga losing, Purdue losing.