Next day stuff (dook game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
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My 2 cents.. no inside info but imo this team lacks a true leader and until all the guys buy in to playing defense and putting the name on the front of the jersey ahead of the name on the back we are going to keep seeing inconsistent results. Last year Manek was a quasi leader maybe not vocally but dude played his butt off and busted his butt on d against far superior athletes so you had to play hard cause you didn’t want to let him down .. this team has some kind of disconnect and sometimes a coach can’t fix that. The players themselves have to buy in fix and fix it themselves..
I played Juco many moons ago so obviously there’s a big difference.. my teammates were auditioning for D1 &D2 offers and not the NBA, but we had selfish players that always wanted to get theirs & it took us the better part of the year to figure out it’s not alway your points or stats that get you exposure but if you WIN things will take care of themselves . Even at the Juco level my coach had his favorites and they were always the better players and normally they had a longer leash to make mistakes. Coach wanted to keep them happy and but they did gave us the best chance to win. Favoritism is a thing at all levels.
IMO this team needs to air things out and hold each other accountable moving forward. Heck I’m sure they probably have had players only meetings but until you start playing for each other and playing to not let your teammates down nothing is going to change with this group
I played Juco many moons ago so obviously there’s a big difference.. my teammates were auditioning for D1 &D2 offers and not the NBA, but we had selfish players that always wanted to get theirs & it took us the better part of the year to figure out it’s not alway your points or stats that get you exposure but if you WIN things will take care of themselves . Even at the Juco level my coach had his favorites and they were always the better players and normally they had a longer leash to make mistakes. Coach wanted to keep them happy and but they did gave us the best chance to win. Favoritism is a thing at all levels.
IMO this team needs to air things out and hold each other accountable moving forward. Heck I’m sure they probably have had players only meetings but until you start playing for each other and playing to not let your teammates down nothing is going to change with this group
in todays world, if a kid continues to show his ass in public and act a fool while the mom and dad stand by idly, they look like fools and folks start to say, why isn’t the mom or dad trying to reel little buddy in?
that’s what’s going on with our program. sure, there’s issues with some players, but at some point, you start to look at the people in charge who aren’t doing shit about it.
that’s what’s going on with our program. sure, there’s issues with some players, but at some point, you start to look at the people in charge who aren’t doing shit about it.
Exactly. The inmates are running the asylum and it's 100% a COACHING thing. This team is near the bottom in bench minutes and 3pt shooting and the same old tired crap that didn't work last week continues to not work this week. I just watched Miami dismantle dook because they did ething UNC doesn't with supposedly a lot less talent and I've had it with mfng prima donna children being coddled on my dime. This has turned into an embarrassment and stain on UNC athletics .. especially the bball program.
One more thought. If HD can't succeed with Pete, how might that affect our next dive into the portal?
UNC after Pete is unlikely to be as appealing as UNC after Brady - especially if it looks like a failure of coaching.
Recruiting in general is not an absolute. Coaches recruit highly ranked HS players that don't live up to their billing, and the same will be true of the portal.
Honestly with a little bit of gamesmanship is how Hubert will spin Pete Nance to his next conquest.
I guess. I'm just thinking that a transfer candidate could easily have said "Look what they did with Brady, I want to go there." Heck, Pete may have said that.
But unless things change, how many prospects are going to say "Look what they did with Pete, I want to go there"?
I know that people see what they want to see, but if Pete fizzles, and it turns out that we really need help from the portal, that's a handicap.
And the thing is, I really believe that Pete could be doing more for us with better coaching. I could be wrong, but that's my take.
It's a shame we don't play Miami tomorrow.
We'd have a better shot because they'd probably still be partying.
I watched some of the Duke-Miami game. They don't have our talent, but they come to play.
We'd have a better shot because they'd probably still be partying.
I watched some of the Duke-Miami game. They don't have our talent, but they come to play.
I may be completely wrong but it felt to me like Caleb’s play worsened around the time of Cadeau’s commitment. I’ve been wondering since whether a conversation with him happened around that time as he seemed to revert to some more selfish tendencies. My mind might be fooling me as I wondered about a reclass but the timing made me wonder.
NIL will have more of an impact than Nance's performance.
Is there truth to what is being said about a riff between Caleb and RJ because Caleb hooked up with RJs girl? I can't remember if I read that here or Twitter, but is all that true?
Please bench Nance, only play him when Bacot needs a break.. Start Nickel and give him 25+ minutes. We need someone that is going to hustle and shoot the 3.. If we can scare teams on the perimeter like Manek did, our offense will open up and flow so much better.
I don't buy in to that rumor at all, think it is nonsense. RJ and Caleb to me seem to mix as well as oil and water and have since they were freshmen. We suppose to believe that Caleb hooked up with RJ's girl for the last 2 1/2yrs? Heck, that time and by now wouldn't she be better described as now Caleb's girl? LOL My point, this nothing but internet rumor, very likely spread by fans that hate UNC.
I have watched both the post game interviews, all I see them say is some of the same old boiler plate stuff we hear after every loss. We didn't execute, we need to communicate better, been hearing these things since Portland.
I'll tell you what I suspect the core issues is here, Hubert is a wonderful man, he is just so nice to everyone and it is real, there isn't a fake bone in his body IMO. Like Dean, much like Roy, he is just a genuine nice man that looks for the best in everyone. Yet recall with Roy, some of his players took advantage of that, his tolerance with the Larry Drew situation, the PJ/LMac nonsense, Rashad, ect.
Roy said himself, he considered retirement after the last natty and the tight circle around him talked him in to staying. Once you get to the point of considering retirement you already have 1 foot out the door. When for example, I/we get reminded that Roy was not able to corral in what RJ and Caleb were doing either and he was a HOF coach, those seasons after that last natty seemed to have different returns than prior seasons. I thought in particular the job he did in his last season, and it came from Roy's own mouth, he did a poor job, I talked at length many times during that last season about that. So I do think when Roy stepped down he did so because he was simply out of steam.
Yet Roy, was still a really good man, I think he allowed some players, 1 in particular (Brooks) get to close to him. I called it as Roy had a blind spot for Brooks, believe that to this day actually.
That is where I see the concern with Hubert. There is a very fine line and that line constantly shifts but it is the fine line of wanting all your players to like you, you truely wanting the very best UNC experience for all of your players. Hubert requires his players to visit his office 3 times a week to discuss any and everything EXCEPT basketball, Dean did similar things. Dean Smith, what Hubert recalls so clearly, became as good a friend as any of his former players could ever imagine. BUT, HUGE but, Dean understood that fine line while his players played for him between being their buddy/friend and being their coach. There is a level of respect players must always have for their coach, there is a line there that just can't be crossed else like a buddy, I will listen to what you say and consider it as a suggestion, rather than as a demand from your coach.
This is in my opinion a function of Hubert not being an experienced head coach at this level. Look, as an assistant coach, they tend to be on a bit more of a friendship basis with the players, when the head coach is hard on them in film review or practice you go to the assistant coach and he is the nice guy that helps you thru that rough patch. Steve was that guy under Roy, that players loved to go to that was considered more their friend than coach (do you recall the "success" Steve had as a head coach at FSU), Hubert in his what 8 seasons under Roy was in that good guy white hat role and it perfectly fit his natural good man personality. I honestly think he is to close to his players, that he struggles with that fine line between being their coach and being their friend, just as many parents do with their own children. If you have kids you already know, you have to be the parent before you are their friend, if not they do anything they want to do and do not except punishment because friends don't punish their friends, they support the decisions their friends make and in time believe those decisions were right. It is the job of the parent and it is as well the job of a coach to enforce the lesson that you just can't do anything you want, that in the end you have to do as I ask or there will be punishment that you will not enjoy.
EXACTLY, they do NOT mix, they may co-exist but they will never mix well, exactly how I see the combo of RJ and Caleb. Ingredients that mix do so organically rather than having to be forced to mix. Oh, you may try to mix them for taste and they may at some point taste tolerable but they wil never taste the way you want them to. That is RJ and Caleb for me, they may make it look better at times but in the end it just never gest to what you know it could be if they mixed organically.
Lets look at another example of this, Nance! I think the kid is talented and I do think he can play at the UNC level but he simply is not mixing right with the team, may be better said these starters. We have tried to mix him in the same way we mixed manek in but the mixture has resulted in more of a Garcia like mix than a Manek like mix. Nance being used like Manek is oil and water, it can almost be acceptable at times but it is never what you want it to be, same for the duo of RJ and Caleb, we play, in my opinion, better basketball when one of them is not on the floor because the role is better defined. BOTH RJ and Caleb seem to play as if they are the straw that stirs the drink PG and that is not working. In 2.5 seasons those 2 fellas should be able to near read the others mind and yet they just seem to be on different pages of the same novel?
Yep. It always struck me that the friction originated with Caleb, but RJ wasn't exactly trying to be a peacemaker. I've always cut RJ more slack, partly because he doesn't seem to be the instigator, and also because he isn't so cocky and was lower ranked.
RJ is at least as good as he was supposed to be and often better. Plus he plays hard all the time. Can't say either of those things about Caleb.
This season I've been seeing them get along a little better. Not best buddies or anything, but they will sometimes seek each other out for a high-five after one of them does something nice.
Making some effort, I guess. Even if it's half-hearted, it's nice to see.
Will they be friends when they both return next season? I asks because Caleb isn't getting drafted after this season. Even if he explodes, will NBA teams trust that he's really turned the corner? I wouldn't. OTOH, he almost certainly would get picked up after not being drafted. Somebody will figure they can "fix" him and will take a low risk chance on him. Or he might be looking forward to playing in Europe.
Caleb and RJ are definitely not besties. Everyone notices that the team never comes together, never huddles and seldom communicate with each other. Carolina could be successful without great guard chemisty but not with this alternating guard dribbling thru the high screen/roll with Bacot. Hubert has failed to coach/plan/scheme/ integrate the feeding of Bacot in the post. It should be "demanded" Bacot be established every game. The offense had to be "required" run thru Bacot. At this point in the season, Bacot would know the necessary successful actions for all defensive scenarios and team player/ball movement would be patterned resulting in open, feet set, unrushed shots. It is on the coaching staff that Bacot does not know how to be successful. It is too late in the season to develop a dominant Bacot. He will continue to get double doubles from rebounding and put backs but his true value has been squandered and the responsibility rests heavily on the staff.
I never complain about reffing, but that was probably the worst reffing of the season. Not many terrible calls, but we got so few of the 50/50 calls it was a bit bizarre.
Anyway, if it were up to me I'd do a few things starting tonight:
1. Play Puff/Nickel/Washington at least a combined 30 minutes per game. I know they may not be great but at least there's some potential upside there. We know what we have with Nance / Leaky and it's not superb basketball (yes I'm grouping Leaky in there due to complete lack of offense). May not get anything better from the newer guys (could even be worse) but at least there's more variance. None of our forwards needs 35 minutes a game.
2. Sit Caleb a couple minutes every time he takes an off-balance 25+ footer with >10 seconds on the shot clock. He needs to start and has been a bit more judicious with his shot, but it still needs to improve. Can do the same for his half-hearted defensive possessions.
3. Never have more than 2 non-shooters on offense. These lineups with 3-4 of Leaky, Trimble, Nance, and Bacot playing together need to go.
4. Experiment some more. I'm sure they have lots of data on what plays/lineups are or aren't working. Try the outperforming combos more, but otherwise we need to shake things up a bit; there are lots of combinations that clearly are not working very well.
Anyway, if it were up to me I'd do a few things starting tonight:
1. Play Puff/Nickel/Washington at least a combined 30 minutes per game. I know they may not be great but at least there's some potential upside there. We know what we have with Nance / Leaky and it's not superb basketball (yes I'm grouping Leaky in there due to complete lack of offense). May not get anything better from the newer guys (could even be worse) but at least there's more variance. None of our forwards needs 35 minutes a game.
2. Sit Caleb a couple minutes every time he takes an off-balance 25+ footer with >10 seconds on the shot clock. He needs to start and has been a bit more judicious with his shot, but it still needs to improve. Can do the same for his half-hearted defensive possessions.
3. Never have more than 2 non-shooters on offense. These lineups with 3-4 of Leaky, Trimble, Nance, and Bacot playing together need to go.
4. Experiment some more. I'm sure they have lots of data on what plays/lineups are or aren't working. Try the outperforming combos more, but otherwise we need to shake things up a bit; there are lots of combinations that clearly are not working very well.
Truth is, there are always recruiting implications for the "next" guys, whether they're coming from HS or the portal. Roy fought negative recruiting for years, as well as the AAU mentality that too many guys think they're PGs, which contributed to us ending up in Combo Purgatory.
Right now, Hubert has a lot of talent but also a land of misfit toys. Being perfectly honest, I would like to see him just simplify and enforce Carolina principles and let the chips fall where they may.
My apologies for the confusion. Your post made it sound like they did mix pretty well for 2 1/2 years since you didn’t subscribe to the theory that they were at odds now.
Miami's head coach has almost 30 years of HC experience and nearly 45 years total, we hired TV analyst, for the most prestigious college basketball program in the world, go figure!
No problem, actually had you not replied as you did I may not have taken the time to explain the mixture of RJ and Caleb from day 1 and I do feel that is an aspect that folks may want to consider.
Allow if I may say it in a different way. I am not saying they go out and overtly work against each other, that is absolutely NOT what I am saying at all. It is more that their games don't seem to mesh right, as if they are the same player and neither has that compliment player that organically fits to them. Means rather than a on the same page duo you have two people that are trying to work together but it is forced rather than natural. That takes away any degree of consistency (when things get hard they revert back to being individuals that struggle to fit with the other guy, they become 1 on 1 players), it is why we never know what to expect from game to the next, in other words we have 2 individuals rather than a back court duo.
A potential solutions for that is limit the court time they have together and for this team that means more Tremble or Dunn and less of the RJ/Caleb combo. Why did we go on such a run last season, one of if not the biggest reason is RJ decided to step back a bit from being a scorer and started to distribute more, didn't dominate the ball as much. Funny thing is his scoring did not take a hard hit, he got things more in the flow of an offense that actually was flowing.
EVERYONE is wringing their collective hands now days asking what the heck is going on? But what is going on is not really all that hard to see, guys think about it, we have 2 guys that score very little in Nance and Leaky, one gives us plus back as a defender but the other doesn't. We don't have a starting PG, we have a back court of 2 guards. One is smallish and the other does not have quick feet and both have a penchant for taking bad shots. We have no real back up for Bacot, Puff once again has led this team in games missed by medical staff call, Styles has not improved and seems to have regressed, Dunn flared up for a couple games but has been MIA of late, and Tremble is not even a Leaky level jump shooter right now. Washington just seems really unsteady, McKoy is still on the team I think but have not seen him in a while, and IDK what Nickel has done to be in that dog house but he looks to me to be the guy that may be able to give us what we miss without Brady but he lives on the bench?
With all that it is actually pretty amazing we have been in it to the end for our losses this season. One thing for darn sure, we have not peaked yet, I am not sure if we have even played our B game for a full 40min game this season.
Yeah, ya know, at some point you have to stop being worried about next season and focus in on the here and now. UNC simply because it is UNC, is always going to get good talents. Recruiting titles ebb and flow, KY got them for a long string, then duke got them, we are getting some now yada yada yada. But to me more important that grabbing all the 5 stars you can get is developing the talents you have in to being the best they can individually be as well as meshing together in to a cohesive group that plays together as a single unit. Look for example what is going on in Houston now days, Kelvin has put together a really good team that play together and it is not a 5 star littered team, they have solid talent but their collective is greater than it's individual parts, our collective is not.
I like the occasional 5 stars as well as the portal guys to be able to come in to an already solid foundation and build to it, not feel as if they can or need to come in and take over.
