OOTB Carolina basketball discussion thread

[TarHeelNation11]

From time to time one of us will start a UNC hoops thread on this board just because the dialog is better and opinions are actually honest and varied unlike Radar.

So what are y'alls thoughts on this 2016 team? I gotta say that in the last two weeks or so I've gone from being convinced we're going to win the whole thing to now fearing we may not even make the Final Four. We're in a rut in a big way right now. Marcus is a shadow of himself and Justin Jackson isn't much better. That Louisville game went exactly like I thought it would go -- they clogged the middle and we stopped going inside and had zero idea what to do when our jump shots wouldn't fall.

I'm trying not to freak out too much over one loss, but we sure looked pretty dang bad for most of last night's game. Are y'all as concerned as I am about Marcus and Justin's continued slumps? When those two are slumping and when Meeks and Brice are stymied by big guys, we have no response. Oh by the way, Joel Berry is a good defender, but offensively I'm still not seeing this supposed brilliance that a couple specific posters RAVE about on Radar. He's good, but he's not taking over games like they promised he would. What am I missing?

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

We have the potential to be a championship team - if some shots are falling. You have to hit some outside shots to beat good teams down the stretch. It's amazing we've come as far as we have with essentially no long-range shooting to speak of. Guys being hesitant to shoot takes the whole offense out of the flow in the half-court, and even sometimes in transition.

I had a bad feeling about the game last night. That's a tough opponent to play on the road on a two-day turnaround, with multiple starters in a shooting slump. Even with little offensive rhythm and poor shooting, we kept it close and had our chances late. So while I wasn't happy about it by any means, I don't think it's a sign of a falling sky ... yet.

We have all the right pieces - post presence, penetrating guards, transition game, solid defensive capabilities - IF our guards and wings can get it going again. As it is, we're really good and can beat most teams. But we will have to get some shooting going to be the great team that we can be, the team that can run most teams out of the gym and come out on top against even the best opponents.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I called that game a loss when I first looked at the schedule before the season started. So I was kind of expecting it. And I'll be fine with it if we don't lose another game until we go to UVa in late Feb. But I was disappointed in how it went down. We didn't look too good. I thought it would be a shootout and we would lose simply because someone for Louisville got hot. That wasn't the case. We couldn't make shots. I'm starting to get concerned about Marcus. His confidence is shot and you can see him now hesitating on shots that he used to take routinely with no regard for the possibility of a miss. He needs to find his stroke in a bad way. Because his shooting ability opens things up not only for him but for the team. And when he's not shooting it well, we can look like last year's version of the Heels. A few other thoughts:

1 - Joel Berry is that good. He's the most consistent guy we have. He's tough as nails, plays terrific defense, sees the floor well and has made big shots. He wasn't "special" last night but he played well enough for us to win if Paige had played better and if Meeks hadn't totally disappeared.

2 - Meeks needs to get his act together. The fact that some of our fans are talking like him being an early entry into the NBA draft is laughable. If the draft happened today, there's no chance Meeks is drafted. None.

3 - Brice was good but not great last night. He didn't rebound with the same tenacity that he had been. We got killed on the boards and I hate that. That's a staple of Carolina ball. It really bothers me when we get dominated on the boards.

4 - Marcus' slump can only be rivaled by Jackson's slump. Jackson is scoring here and there but he's not shooting well at all. I almost like Pinson shooting the 3 more than Jackson shooting the 3.

5 - Not a good game for Hicks. He had a couple big time moves on the offensive end, but his defense was terrible last night and he didn't rebound well.

Some extras:
Maye's turnover on the outlet pass was a momentum killer. But I continue to be impressed with Maye. Kenny Williams offers nothing right now. Britt was pretty quiet last night outside of a big 3. Pinson played pretty well though. Joel James was a nonfactor.

All that said, we were within 2 points with 35 seconds left. Not sure why we didn't foul immediately on the inbound instead of waiting 9 seconds. All in all, we played our D- game and still almost came away with a win...on the road...against a ranked team...after a crushing loss at home in their last game. Not worried yet. When we play to our potential, we're still the best team in the country by a good margin. But we have to bring it better every time out.

 

[Blue2010]

I have no concerns, being completely honest. It's January. This team is deep, there's talent at all five positions, and I have complete trust with the ball in Marcus, Joel, or Nate's hands late in games...don't really feel like either of them would be a liability, and that is huge once you get to March.

Fans hit the panic button way too easily. Bottom line is there is a lot of parity in college basketball and UNC was in a tough spot last night...Louisville was clearly overlooking UVA over the weekend and the fact that they lost the way they did seemed to amplify things on their end even further. It happens... This team will be fine.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

To me, last night we looked like last year's Heels and that was frustrating as hell because I'm not gonna lie.....I hated watching last year's team. Outside of Marcus, it was painful to watch. I'm not ready to throw in the towel either but here are the things I've been worried about for a few weeks, which were also troubling last night:

Brice Johnson -- easily the most frustrating Heel to watch in the past 8 seasons, given his potential/size/ability. I can't stand how he seems to check in and out of games, mentally. Like last night when he gets the loose ball and tries to play point guard, stumbling his way up the length of the court and then gets the ball stolen and it leads to an easy two the other way. Dude, you're 6'11....pass the ball to a ball handler and let us run in transition. Those kind of needless turnovers frustrate the heck out of me. Yes he scores a lot of points and yes he grabs a lot of rebounds, but he could be so much better for us and really dominate games if he kept his head on straight.

Jump shooting -- it's really bad right now. Like really bad. Ryan Switzer said it best actually via Twitter, said we were out there building houses with all the bricks we were laying. I don't know how to fix this but hopefully guys start knocking down shots.

Too many ineffective players on a given night -- we have a deep bench but a lot of guys don't do much when they're on.

There's other stuff but those are the main things that jump out at me. It would be really nice if one (or both) of Hicks and Pinson would elevate their game a little so that we could have another solid post player and/or shooter. Right now, Pinson couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

To be clear, I'm not hitting the panic button. We're just all aware of the things that have been plaguing us the last few games. These things just haven't manifested themselves into a loss, until last night. We knew it was coming though. Hopefully it wakes the guys up.

 

[Blue2010]

I get all that. I guess my point it that we have a team that is clearly top 5 in the country and to this point in the season, has proven that. Every team in the country is vulnerable on any given night...it's the way this process works. Very few times do you see a truly "dominant" team that comes through like a buzzsaw.

This team should win the ACC regular season and have a shot at a #1 seed in the NCAAT. That is the goal entering the year and they are on pace to achieve that. Once you get into both the ACC Tourney and the NCAAT...it's all based on match-ups after that, and our guards cause matchup problems for anyone.

Again, I like our chances. Don't forget the #1 team in the country probably should have lost over the weekend as well. No one is unbeatable. Marcus will find his shot by March...would rather him have a slump now and get the kinks worked out.

 

[coolwaterunc]

I think we'll be fine. This team is nowhere near the 2005 and 2009 teams, but I guess they don't necessarily need to be. Are we a championship team? This year, sure, but other years, probably not.

Paige needs to get it together, obviously, but I think it's just a matter of time. Even the best players go on slumps, so he'll snap out of it. I just hope it's sooner rather than later because we need someone to make some freaking shots.

Justin Jackson has been pretty disappointing, so far. Unless he's doing his signature running floater thingy, he just hasn't been contributing on offense. Maybe he goes off at the end of the year like he did last season, but he has a ways to go before he's a real consistent threat.

Berry is just a solid PG, IMO, and there's nothing wrong with that. We can win with him, no doubt, but he's not the next Felton or Lawson. I like him though.

I have no clue why Meeks is supposedly entering the upcoming draft. That's all I'll say about that. I like the dude and everything, but come on, man.

Pinson needs to be given the Jackie Manuel treatment on offense.

Brice is far and away the best player on the team. Yeah, he does things sometimes that make you want to question where his head is, but I can't complain too much. He's a beast.

 

[Blue2010]

If memory serves me correctly, didn't even the 2009 team start the 0 - 2 in the ACC? Everyone has slumps.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

If memory serves me correctly, didn't even the 2009 team start the 0 - 2 in the ACC? Everyone has slumps.

That 2009 team was also head and shoulders better than everyone else in CBB and it was pretty apparent. That's not the case this season.

Berry is just a solid PG, IMO, and there's nothing wrong with that. We can win with him, no doubt, but he's not the next Felton or Lawson. I like him though.

This is what I was trying to get at. Some folks on Radar had me believing Berry was going to be a Lawson / Felton type who could make our offense run at hyperdrive pace and drive to the rim and score at will. I guess he's more of a facilitator than slasher and scorer.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Too many ineffective players on a given night -- we have a deep bench but a lot of guys don't do much when they're on.

Totally disagree. I think we've won games because we have so many guys that can produce when our main guys aren't getting it done.

 

[coolwaterunc]

Totally disagree. I think we've won games because we have so many guys that can produce when our main guys aren't getting it done.

Other than Hicks, who? Britt was nailing threes at the beginning while Paige was out, but now, nobody even knows he's on the court. Meeks played well in his first couple of games back from injury, but he's disappeared, for the most part. Jackson and Pinson are struggling, so who's left? James? Maye? Those guys do what they can, but I wouldn't think you're referring to them.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

This is what I was trying to get at. Some folks on Radar had me believing Berry was going to be a Lawson / Felton type who could make our offense run at hyperdrive pace and drive to the rim and score at will. I guess he's more of a facilitator than slasher and scorer.

Felton/Lawson weren't Felton/Lawson either in their first year or two. Berry's not yet the guy that takes over the game but I can definitely see him developing into that kind of player as he builds experience and confidence. He's already doing really good things on the court.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

What are you guys talking about? We have the best team ever - clearly national champions, and our starting 5 will be the 1st team all AA team, and they'll all be drafted in the lottery!! Duck Fook!!!

Oh wait - this isn't Radar? Well in that case:

I do think we still have a decent shot at winning it all, and should most likely make the Final Four. This team has shown that it still can't win road games, but fortunately tournament games are neutral site, and I think we'll be ok in those neutral site games.

Paige's woes are definitely concerning. People seem convinced he'll break out of it, which he very well may, but I wouldn't count that as a given. There could be something going on (undisclosed injury or whatever) that is causing him to play like this, and I just don't think its definitive that he'll be "the old Marcus" when we need him to be. However, I'm not overly concerned about that because: Joel Berry is every bit the player we need him to be. He was hurt for a lot of last year and just didn't get a ton of burn overall, so he's still adapting on the fly. I think he has the skills to be that Felton/Lawson type (I would definitely take Berry over Kendall Marshall). Although, I may be overrating him slightly because I just can't stand the thought of having Britt get serious minutes. He's been better in his limited time this year, I must admit, but after single-handedly costing us that Wisconsin game last year, I don't think I can ever forgive him.

Brice is obviously the man - but he does occasionally try to do too much when he thinks he needs to throw the team on his back. Dribbling the length of the floor, and becoming a non-passing black hole down low when he thinks he needs to be the one to score, are problematic. But, those problems won't manifest themselves if we're playing better overall as a team. Hicks is solid off the bench and will be the 6th man that we need to bring us deep into the tournament. Meeks is frustrating. I do think he'll test the NBA waters after this season based on what we're hearing, but I don't know if he'll be drafted. He's been about on par with Joel James recently, and if that's the case, I'd rather have James out there - because I know I shouldn't expect anything more from him.

Jackson and Pinson's sophomore slumps will hopefully end soon. I'm actually oddly more optimistic of Justin breaking out of his slump than Marcus breaking out of his - don't ask me why. But we absolutely need to do better with 3PTs. Both shooting them ourselves, and defending them. That was the glaring weakness in last years team, along with FT shooting. The FTs have improved dramatically which is nice, but we really need to do better on both ends from beyond the arc.

 

[coolwaterunc]

(I would definitely take Berry over Kendall Marshall).

I wouldn't go near that far. Kendall Marshall was an artist.

 

[strummingram]

You always expect some chicken little's after a loss. This was no different. It's pretty amazing, in some ways. 8-0 in the conference prior to this loss. I mean, if that's not indicative of a good team, I'm not sure what is. We haven't lost a game since before Christmas, and that loss was by one or two points ON THE ROAD to an up-and-coming Texas team that just last night beat a ranked Baylor team in Waco.

Last night was just a perfect storm of too many bad elements coming together at once. The perimeter shooting funk is disconcerting, but it's Marcus who is making up the biggest part of that funk. I feel for the guy. Meeks had a bad game. But, Marcus is having a string of them. Louisville just came off a record-breaking loss to UVA. When I saw that game, I knew we were in for an L, unless we found the perimeter shooting again. If UNC had lost in an embarrassing fashion like Louisville had lost Saturday, then it MIGHT be more worrisome. But, they were shooting bricks all night and still were in it with a minute left.

I'm also not sure why so many people are claiming Louisville "is not that good of a team" when they're #2 in the ACC and in the Top 20! Gimme a break, man.

 

[strummingram]

Not to mention, Louisville WANTED TO WIN THAT GAME! They wanted to win it a helluva lot more than Carolina.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Felton/Lawson weren't Felton/Lawson either in their first year or two. Berry's not yet the guy that takes over the game but I can definitely see him developing into that kind of player as he builds experience and confidence. He's already doing really good things on the court.

But see, by this point in his sophomore year, Lawson WAS Lawson or at least pretty close to "full Lawson" if memory serves correctly.

I'm not bashing Berry by any means, I just feel like as of now, I was sold false goods by some of the Radar guys.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I wouldn't go near that far. Kendall Marshall was an artist.

I was about to say..........

 

[TarHeelNation11]

You always expect some chicken little's after a loss. This was no different.

Now THIS is the type of response I'd expect to see on Radar

 

[coolwaterunc]

But see, by this point in his sophomore year, Lawson WAS Lawson or at least pretty close to "full Lawson" if memory serves correctly.

I'm not bashing Berry by any means, I just feel like as of now, I was sold false goods by some of the Radar guys.

Yeah, same here. I actually really like Berry. He's probably the most consistent player on the team, and you know exactly what you're going get from him night in and night out. He takes care of the ball, dishes out a few assists and gives you about 12 points. I can't possibly ask for more. I just don't think he's a superstar who can single-handedly carve up a team and carry you to victory like Lawson and Felton could.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Yeah, same here. I actually really like Berry. He's probably the most consistent player on the team, and you know exactly what you're going get from him night in and night out. He takes care of the ball, dishes out a few assists and gives you about 12 points. I can't possibly ask for more. I just don't think he's a superstar who can single-handedly carve up a team and carry you to victory like Lawson and Felton could.

No, he's not the superstar that Lawson and Ray were. But who claimed him to be? Berry will be an AA candidate next year.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I wouldn't go near that far. Kendall Marshall was an artist.

Depends on the other 4 players as to which guy I would pick. If you had a bona fide scorer like Barnes on the wing and a low post threat like Zeller and a rim protector like Henson, then I'll take Marshall. But the way this current team is constructed, we need more driving ability, shooting ability and better perimeter defense from our PG. Berry is better in those areas than Marshall.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

No, he's not the superstar that Lawson and Ray were. But who claimed him to be? Berry will be an AA candidate next year.

Who do you think? His biggest fan and the resident Radar basketball guru, gary-7. Someone else -- can't remember who -- straightup said his gut told him Joel Berry would win Player of the Year and get his number retired.

 

[coolwaterunc]

Depends on the other 4 players as to which guy I would pick. If you had a bona fide scorer like Barnes on the wing and a low post threat like Zeller and a rim protector like Henson, then I'll take Marshall. But the way this current team is constructed, we need more driving ability, shooting ability and better perimeter defense from our PG. Berry is better in those areas than Marshall.

I actually think of it a little differently. Marshall would always give you the ball at the right place at the right time so you'll always have the highest chance to score to your ability. Having the purest of pure point guards like Marshall was could be just what Paige and Jackson need to get going, IMO.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

But see, by this point in his sophomore year, Lawson WAS Lawson or at least pretty close to "full Lawson" if memory serves correctly.

I'm not bashing Berry by any means, I just feel like as of now, I was sold false goods by some of the Radar guys.

Lawson may have been a little further ahead, but I feel like Berry could be on a comparable trajectory. Playing really well midway through sophomore year, with the potential for a big leap toward a beast mode junior year. Who knows, maybe we'll see some of that side of Berry as the stakes get higher over the next 2 months.

Also, Berry hasn't had as much time with the reins in his hands as Lawson did. Unless I'm completely spacing out, Ty pretty much had them from Day 1 as Frasor was the only other PG. Berry played most of last year behind Paige and Britt, so he's still feeling his way as the true floor general.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Depends on the other 4 players as to which guy I would pick. If you had a bona fide scorer like Barnes on the wing and a low post threat like Zeller and a rim protector like Henson, then I'll take Marshall. But the way this current team is constructed, we need more driving ability, shooting ability and better perimeter defense from our PG. Berry is better in those areas than Marshall.

This articulated my point much better than I did myself. Marshall was a great PG, don't get me wrong. But he was a pure passer - not much scoring ability or defense to be had from him. With the struggles we have guarding beyond the arc, and the funks that our supposed "scorers" (Jackson and Paige) are going through this year - I would take Berry over Marshall for this team. Berry is a much better defender and scorer, and is a somewhat less skilled passer (but that's not exactly a knock on Berry because he's still a pretty good passer, it's just Marshall was one of the best passers)

 

[TarHeelMark]

I'm nowhere near ready to jump off the ledge. Last night was a tough match-up between two ranked teams. Louisville had the home crowd and the recent ass-whipping from UVA to fuel their effort. They certainly had more "WANT TO" than the Heels.

That being said, I still saw our guys fighting hard to get back in the game at the end, but we couldn't buy a freakin' layup. As bad as the Heels looked at times, they still got back within 2 points. If the game was in Chapel Hill, I'm certain the Heels would've pulled it out.

I fully expect the Heels to make the Final Four this year; after that it's wide open. But Marcus and Justin need to get out of their collective funks and start producing if that's going to happen.

 

[Grayhead]

I will say this, Meeks needs to forget the NBA this year. If you are NBA ready, then you will be in during late game on the road situations. Unless he wants to be a NBA cheerleader.
Also, Justin's outside shot has never been consistent this year compared to the end of last year. Even Paige hasn't stroked it as well as his previous 3 years. I personally don't understand the mind of a shooter, but paiges troubles started at the tail end of his consecutive 3 ball per game streak. Once he broke the record, his shot failed immediately. I wonder if something came unhitched in his mechanics trying to push that record out further.
Britt, Brice, Berry, James, and Maye are doing just what is expected. Kenny has no shot at this point t, but seems aggressive on D. I would love to see him splash a few. Kinda reminds me of a deer in the headlights when he pulls the trigger.

BTW, we are in trouble if Paige and Justin can't get it going. We are into the meat of our schedule. Now will be the time we need to earn that #1 seed in the east.

 

[notashelbyfan]

The 05 and 09 teams had "IT" this team doesn't have "IT" I'm not really sure what it is but the best I can figure the "IT" is a point guard that can do it all both the 05 and 09 team had that the 12 team had it and butter went down and that season ended quickly after.

It all revolves around the PG I'm not saying Berry isn't the one but he is not where he needs to be to run Roy's O he is one year behind where he needs to be to fit in with the rest of the team!

 

[Grayhead]

I know the it you are talking about. When both classes were recruited, seeing them in the Mickie d game, I just knew they would bring the chip home at some point. I really thought doa would put it together. To be honest, I have never had that feeling with this group. I know we will compete. Clicking on all cylinders they would be unstoppable against the talent level this year. But honestly, have we ever saw them clicking on all cylinders? We have watched Marcus go off for 2 &1/2 seasons and manage not to cripple himself the last half of the year. We have a fairly healthy roster now. Meat of the season, and not close to clicking like we should. We can only hope and wonder if it comes together like we think it can.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I know the it you are talking about. When both classes were recruited, seeing them in the Mickie d game, I just knew they would bring the chip home at some point. I really thought doa would put it together. To be honest, I have never had that feeling with this group. I know we will compete. Clicking on all cylinders they would be unstoppable against the talent level this year. But honestly, have we ever saw them clicking on all cylinders? We have watched Marcus go off for 2 &1/2 seasons and manage not to cripple himself the last half of the year. We have a fairly healthy roster now. Meat of the season, and not close to clicking like we should. We can only hope and wonder if it comes together like we think it can.

Kinda agree with this. Seems like this team never truly dominates anyone for 40 minutes like it could/should.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Kinda agree with this. Seems like this team never truly dominates anyone for 40 minutes like it could/should.

I think you and Gray may be overvaluing the pieces we have. Frankly, I think this team is close to the top of its potential. This year, we have a lot of B+ players but no "A" guys. The difference between an "A" player and a "B+" player is consistency. B+ players can play at an "A" level some of the time. But A players play at a high level all of the time. We just don't have those types of players. That doesn't mean we can't be good enough to win the championship. But it's just to say that I don't believe this team is underachieving. I think this team achieves at the level that is commensurate with its abilities.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I think you and Gray may be overvaluing the pieces we have. Frankly, I think this team is close to the top of its potential. This year, we have a lot of B+ players but no "A" guys. The difference between an "A" player and a "B+" player is consistency. B+ players can play at an "A" level some of the time. But A players play at a high level all of the time. We just don't have those types of players. That doesn't mean we can't be good enough to win the championship. But it's just to say that I don't believe this team is underachieving. I think this team achieves at the level that is commensurate with its abilities.

You may have identified the problem, yeah. To me though....I don't know man, Justin Jackson looked SO good last year. I just feel like he could dominate, but he's not doing it right now. I guess maybe I am overvaluing our guys.

 

[strummingram]

The team is definitely lacking A-list players. If they ARE A-list, they aren't exhibiting A-list performance.

At this point, Brice Johnson is our absolute best player. We have nowhere near the level of talent and cohesiveness of 05 or 09. The 2012 team was much better than this team. I'm not saying that this team is rancid. But, look at the number of Jerseys in the rafters from those teams. I don't see those being hung from this team. Paige is up there. But, I have a gut feeling that the Paige that hung a jersey is gone. I don't think we will see a reemergence of him either. Johnson MIGHT get a jersey hung, but the team is lacking a strong, consistent core.

So many have said "This group has an even higher gear." That may be true. If they never find it and use it, its because they never really had it. I've never been convinced they have it. I'm measuring them against past teams, which might be inaccurate and even unfair. Those teams had the higher gear and used it... often.

 

[UNC71-00]

Paige and Jackson are A players (by 2016 college bb standards) when on top of their game. As is Johnson.

This team's standing at the end of the season will depend on whether or not Paige and Jackson find their shot. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

The team is definitely lacking A-list players. If they ARE A-list, they aren't exhibiting A-list performance.

At this point, Brice Johnson is our absolute best player. We have nowhere near the level of talent and cohesiveness of 05 or 09. The 2012 team was much better than this team. I'm not saying that this team is rancid. But, look at the number of Jerseys in the rafters from those teams. I don't see those being hung from this team. Paige is up there. But, I have a gut feeling that the Paige that hung a jersey is gone. I don't think we will see a reemergence of him either. Johnson MIGHT get a jersey hung, but the team is lacking a strong, consistent core.

So many have said "This group has an even higher gear." That may be true. If they never find it and use it, its because they never really had it. I've never been convinced they have it. I'm measuring them against past teams, which might be inaccurate and even unfair. Those teams had the higher gear and used it... often.

Kinda unfair to judge them against past great Carolina teams, but I do it too. The 2012 would beat this year's team by 8-12 points. The 2009 team would win by 20. Hansbrough would single-handedly get Brice to foul out with 10 minutes left in the second half. The 2005 team......yikes. That was a different era of college basketball, when elite players stayed in college 2-3 years. That 2005 team would wax this year's team.

 

[Grayhead]

Gsl, I agree with your assessment. This team is capable of much more, but remains to be seen. As I said earlier, have we ever saw it from them?

 

[UNC71-00]

Kinda unfair to judge them against past great Carolina teams, but I do it too. The 2012 would beat this year's team by 8-12 points. The 2009 team would win by 20. Hansbrough would single-handedly get Brice to foul out with 10 minutes left in the second half. The 2005 team......yikes. That was a different era of college basketball, when elite players stayed in college 2-3 years. That 2005 team would wax this year's team.

All true, but 2016 UNC is one of the best teams in the country.

Any of those past teams you mentioned would be killing people this year. And I think if Paige and Jackson had played to potential this year, this team would be undefeated as well. I mean, we only have 3 losses- all on the road- and have beaten some good teams.

These guys will get it together. I'm not worried.

 

[coolwaterunc]

All this talk about our recent teams, mainly 2005 and 2009, makes me wonder...if either of those two teams were competing this season, could they go undefeated?