OOTB Carolina basketball discussion thread

[notashelbyfan]

The 05 team was one of the only team I have ever seen that played when they wanted to and would toy with teams until they decided they were don't with you.

The 09 team was IMO the best CBB team in the last 40 years even when they were bad they were 15 better than anyone in the country!

Idk tgat that adds to the current discussion but I said it any way!

 

[notashelbyfan]

All this talk about our recent teams, mainly 2005 and 2009, makes me wonder...if either of those two teams were competing this season, could they go undefeated?

If 05 wanted to put the effort in every night yes, the 09 team would make the rest of the country look sick!

 

[strummingram]

All true, but 2016 UNC is one of the best teams in the country.

Any of those past teams you mentioned would be killing people this year. And I think if Paige and Jackson had played to potential this year, this team would be undefeated as well. I mean, we only have 3 losses- all on the road- and have beaten some good teams.

These guys will get it together. I'm not worried.

I agree that if Paige and Jackson start shooting lights-out, we're golden. Without that scoring ability, we're not. Louisville showed how we can be beaten. The Texas loss was one point. But, it all comes down to our ability to score.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

All this talk about our recent teams, mainly 2005 and 2009, makes me wonder...if either of those two teams were competing this season, could they go undefeated?

Without a shadow of a doubt they could go undefeated. Who would/could guard McCants (ugh), May, J. Williams, and Felton or Lawson, Ellington, Hansbrough? No one.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Let's be real for a second. The 2005 team would've handled the 2009 team. No doubt in my mind.

 

[strummingram]

Because of those two teams, I'm sorta instinctively gauging the potential success of UNC teams by the lethal, reliable #5 and the speed demon PG. Oh... and the lethal 3-point shooter. Oh... and the beast defender. Seems to have been a formula for success in Roy's teams.

May/Felton/McCants/Manuel

Hansbrough/Lawson/Ellington/Ginyard

Zeller/Marshall/Barnes/Henson

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Because of those two teams, I'm sorta instinctively gauging the potential success of UNC teams by the lethal, reliable #5 and the speed demon PG. Oh... and the lethal 3-point shooter. Oh... and the beast defender. Seems to have been a formula for success in Roy's teams.

May/Felton/McCants/Manuel

Hansbrough/Lawson/Ellington/Ginyard

Zeller/Marshall/Barnes/Henson

And this year's team doesn't really have ANY of those, aside from I guess B. Johnson being a "lethal, reliable #5" which to me is a stretch. For every FSU game he has, he has a game where he gets in early foul trouble and can't contribute. If I had to take a stab at it though....

Lethal #5: Brice
Speed demon PG: ....n/a
Lethal 3-point shooter: Well, it was Marcus
Beast defender: Berry?

 

[notashelbyfan]

Let's be real for a second. The 2005 team would've handled the 2009 team. No doubt in my mind.

IDK it's close!

Lawson >Felton
Ellington=McCants
Green>Manuel
Thompson<Williams
Tyler>May
Davis<Marvin

 

[TarHeelNation11]

IDK it's close!

Lawson >Felton
Ellington=McCants
Green>Manuel
Thompson<Williams
Tyler>May
Davis<Marvin

Not sure I agree with all those! Here's mine:

Lawson = Felton (they were both beasts. This is a wash to me).
Ellington < McCants (hate him now, but McCants was a beast when he wanted to be. Unguardable)
Green > Manuel
Thompson < Williams (not even close)
Tyler ?? May (I honestly can't decide. Psycho T was obviously a beast but May's big body would've given him trouble. May would drop 30 points on TH50 who admittedly wasn't a stellar defender).
Davis = Marvin

 

[notashelbyfan]

Like I said before PG is the key it's not that Berry isn't it, it is that he isn't it yet! Roy's best have to have the best PG's to play like it's supposed to, just think about the 09 team when Lawson went down with the toe we were donever in the 2nd round if he don't come back and in 05 when Felton was out we lost the first game of the season!

If you took the team we have now and Berry started tomorrow being Lawson we would win out and our shooting % would go up from 3 and we would be head and shoulders better than any team in the country!

 

[notashelbyfan]

Not sure I agree with all those! Here's mine:

Lawson = Felton (they were both beasts. This is a wash to me).
Ellington < McCants (hate him now, but McCants was a beast when he wanted to be. Unguardable)
Green > Manuel
Thompson < Williams (not even close)
Tyler ?? May (I honestly can't decide. Psycho T was obviously a beast but May's big body would've given him trouble. May would drop 30 points on TH50 who admittedly wasn't a stellar defender).
Davis = Marvin

I know it would be one more epic basketball game!

 

[gunslingerdick]

Let's be real for a second. The 2005 team would've handled the 2009 team. No doubt in my mind.

False. Reason? 50.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

False. Reason? 50.

He'd certainly keep '09 in the game....

 

[gunslingerdick]

He'd certainly keep '09 in the game....

In addition, Lawson would be too much for Ray. I love Ray (probably a top fiver at UNC for me) but he couldn't handle the junior UNC version of Lawson.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

In addition, Lawson would be too much for Ray. I love Ray (probably a top fiver at UNC for me) but he couldn't handle the junior UNC version of Lawson.

How good (or bad) of a defender was Lawson? I can't seem to remember.

And you gotta admit I have a decent point above about TH50's defense vs. May's big body. Sean would score a bunch of points in the paint on TH50

 

[UNC71-00]

Let's be real for a second. The 2005 team would've handled the 2009 team. No doubt in my mind.

I completely see it the other way. 09 would have handled 05 by 6+ pts if both teams had played their best game

 

[TarHeelMark]

How good (or bad) of a defender was Lawson? I can't seem to remember.

And you gotta admit I have a decent point above about TH50's defense vs. May's big body. Sean would score a bunch of points in the paint on TH50

The fact that you can't remember Lawson's D probably says all you need to know.... LOL. Seriously, I think he was a decent defender.

As for May & 'Bro.... I think they both get theirs, but like you said Pyscho T's defense wasn't elite by any means.

 

[UNC71-00]

How good (or bad) of a defender was Lawson? I can't seem to remember.

And you gotta admit I have a decent point above about TH50's defense vs. May's big body. Sean would score a bunch of points in the paint on TH50

Tyler would have been matched up against Jawad. Deon Thompson would have bodied up May.

And besides, Hansbrough was better than May by not a small margin. And Lawson was better than Felton hands down. McCants over Ellington, but not by much, Green would have killed Manuel and Jawad only slightly better than Deon.

The 09 team was our second best championship team. 05 and 93 are neck and neck for third.

 

[UNC71-00]

The fact that you can't remember Lawson's D probably says all you need to know.... LOL. Seriously, I think he was a decent defender.

As for May & 'Bro.... I think they both get theirs, but like you said Pyscho T's defense wasn't elite by any means.

His defense might not have been elite, but he was getting the rebound if you missed. Also, Tyler would work you to death on the other end, making it that much harder when his opponent was on offense.

Hansbrough was the best player we ever had- how anyone can think May could have handled him is beyond me.

 

[strummingram]

Needless to say, the 05 & 09 teams were incredible.

I'd like to match up our 05/09 against dook's 2010 and 2015

 

[gunslingerdick]

How good (or bad) of a defender was Lawson? I can't seem to remember.

And you gotta admit I have a decent point above about TH50's defense vs. May's big body. Sean would score a bunch of points in the paint on TH50

The problem for the 05 team is not as simple as "which guy is checking 50". Tyler drew fouls like no one I have ever seen in college basketball. May would have gotten a chance. Jawad would have gotten a chance. And Marv would have gotten a chance. And most likely, they all end up either fouling out or having so many fouls they have to guard tentatively. That was the Tyler Hansbrough effect.

I completely see it the other way. 09 would have handled 05 by 6+ pts if both teams had played their best game

I agree. 09 > 05.

The fact that you can't remember Lawson's D probably says all you need to know.... LOL. Seriously, I think he was a decent defender.

As for May & 'Bro.... I think they both get theirs, but like you said Pyscho T's defense wasn't elite by any means.

Felton played hard on the defensive end. He was what I would call an "admirable" defender. Lawson was a good defender when he wanted to be. It's just that he didn't always want to be.

The bottom line for me is that the 09 team had better team chemistry. They were truly a team where the whole was better than the sum of its parts. More so than 05, IMO.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

His defense might not have been elite, but he was getting the rebound if you missed. Also, Tyler would work you to death on the other end, making it that much harder when his opponent was on offense.

Hansbrough was the best player we ever had- how anyone can think May could have handled him is beyond me.

I LOVE me some psycho T; he's my favorite Heel I've ever watched. I'm just saying that he'd have trouble defending May. There's no question Tyler would get his points in the paint. I think both would score at least 20-24 points with ease.

 

[UNC71-00]

I LOVE me some psycho T; he's my favorite Heel I've ever watched. I'm just saying that he'd have trouble defending May. There's no question Tyler would get his points in the paint. I think both would score at least 20-24 points with ease.

Deon defends May and May would not have been able to push him around. In 05 vs 09, May would get his points in a good night. Hansbrough got his every night.

Don't get me wrong- Sean May was a good player. But he's not a top 10 big in UNC history. He had a great final 4- just like Donald Williams. But neither get their own display in the UNC basketball museum, whereas 50 gets his own wall.

 

[UNC '92]

50's motor was way higher than anyone's on '05. His will + '09 talent > '05 talent.

 

[coolwaterunc]

The 09 team would beat the 05 team more often than not, IMO. That team had the greatest player in UNC history, and he was probably the second best player on the team that year. Ty Lawson was on a mission in 2009. I've never seen a point guard dominate the game as much as he did that year. I love Raymond Felton, I really do, but he'd run right through a buzzsaw with Ty. Throw in Ellington and Green, and you have offense all over the court. Deon can put 10+ on you too. Five offensive options including the GOAT and a PG murdering opponents left and right means 09 > 05.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

The 09 team would beat the 05 team more often than not, IMO. That team had the greatest player in UNC history, and he was probably the second best player on the team that year. Ty Lawson was on a mission in 2009. I've never seen a point guard dominate the game as much as he did that year. I love Raymond Felton, I really do, but he'd run right through a buzzsaw with Ty. Throw in Ellington and Green, and you have offense all over the court. Deon can put 10+ on you too. Five offensive options including the GOAT and a PG murdering opponents left and right means 09 > 05.

Tywon was a bad man, for sure.

 

[gteeitup]

ugh

 

[Grayhead]

The thing that makes the 09 team more special to me was they came back on a mission. Kansas handed it to them in 08. They didn't say oh well and trot off to the NBA. That severly disappointed me with the 12 team. We had the team for that title as well till that team of hitmen took us out. If they had come back for one more year, then we could have easily walked our way to a title. But, money is all that drives these kids this day, and the screwed up system that draws them from college. I would love some stats on the players that leave early and their success rates

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Win or lose this ND game, the team should be embarrassed with the amount of hustle they're showing tonight. Disheartening to say the least.

 

[coolwaterunc]

Win or lose this ND game, the team should be embarrassed with the amount of hustle they're showing tonight. Disheartening to say the least.

Pretty much.

 

[BillyL]

In addition, Lawson would be too much for Ray. I love Ray (probably a top fiver at UNC for me) but he couldn't handle the junior UNC version of Lawson.

This . .

 

[coolwaterunc]

This team is just not that good.

 

[Blue2010]

They just need someone who is "tough" -- everyone on this team is a finesse player, and I cannot stand it. It seems like that is a common theme every year with UNC though. Lots of "good kids" but you need at least one junkyard dog out there.

 

[UNC71-00]

Horse ****ing shit

2/3 of this on Jackson and Pinson sucking ass
1/3 on Roys idiotic lineup when ND made their run

I am so ****ing sick of stupid ass shit out if Carolina basketball.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Pathetic. I'm taking a little break from this team.

 

[UNC71-00]

Pathetic. I'm taking a little break from this team.

Agreed. These guys are lost right now and Roy aint helping.

On a bright note, Lax heels opened the season with a nice win.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Horse ****ing shit

2/3 of this on Jackson and Pinson sucking ass
1/3 on Roys idiotic lineup when ND made their run

I am so ****ing sick of stupid ass shit out if Carolina basketball.

Honest question, why does Pinson play?

 

[UNC71-00]

Honest question, why does Pinson play?

Have you seen what a pussy Jackson is? He is pathetically weak.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Have you seen what a pussy Jackson is? He is pathetically weak.

That doesn't really answer why Pinson plays though. He can't pass or shoot or finish. Of course, neither can Jackson right now. His confidence is shot.

 

[strummingram]

Looks bleak right now.

At least Marcus found his shot again. The refs calling EVERYTHING sorta precipitated some of the soft play. That wasn't the culprit for being out-hustled, but it does affect your performance.

Nate was sorely missed. This team needs all their parts to win now. I've definitely lost confidence in seeing the team go very far in after the regular season. They might be fun for Roy to coach, but they're not much fun to watch these days. 2 losses in a row in the conference does not bode well at all.