Are our problems due to sub-par personnel, poor recruiting or poor coaching? Remember three of the four defensive coached are new this year. I believe there must be consistent coaching continuity in order to maintain consistent tough defenses. There has been far to much turnover. We need to make the investment in proven coaches and then keep them.
What's wrong with the Tar Heel defense?
- Thread starter Davis618
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If you really want to compete just for this year since the talent level on Offense lost 94 percent of production , then slow the game down and use the whole clock.. I understand if he doesn't because that is his scheme win or lose, But somebody will put up 1,000 Yards on them this year in one game..
Deems May was spot on in his post game comments - we lack sufficient talent and our schemes don't fit the talent we have. Especially on crossing routes we expect relatively slow linebackers to supply man coverage while we generate insufficient pressure on the QB. So we get picked apart.
Okay, so, is our personnel adequate and are the coaches competent? Or is the whole problem our scheme?
If you are playing that offensive Scheme you are asking your D to Defend more plays than a standard game, So unless you are putting up 40+ every game (which is close to what Heels needed to even beat Cal) then I bet Scheme...
I mean he loses 94 percent of the offense and still wants a play off every 15 seconds from a math standpoint against better talent than you that spells disaster..
I vote the Offense is the Defenses worst enemy as problem number 1, but of course there are many more problems, No pressure On QB, poor tackling , untimely penalties ..
The guys are big up front ,veterans in the D- positions just like a standard D-1 8-4 record team , But 94 percent missing on the other side is you culprit ..
somebody will probably say hey the scored 35 and 30 points, but both of the last scores on each game was backdoor prevent scores that were meaningless in the outcome of the game..
I mean he loses 94 percent of the offense and still wants a play off every 15 seconds from a math standpoint against better talent than you that spells disaster..
I vote the Offense is the Defenses worst enemy as problem number 1, but of course there are many more problems, No pressure On QB, poor tackling , untimely penalties ..
The guys are big up front ,veterans in the D- positions just like a standard D-1 8-4 record team , But 94 percent missing on the other side is you culprit ..
somebody will probably say hey the scored 35 and 30 points, but both of the last scores on each game was backdoor prevent scores that were meaningless in the outcome of the game..
Okay, so, is this our fate under Fed? I don't see why quality defensive players would won't to come to UNC if all they will end up doing is being mired in a state of futility. Is this why Gene left? Or was it truly family matters? His family matters were the same when he came here.
Again, remember we lost all but one defensive coach from last year.
Again, remember we lost all but one defensive coach from last year.
I don't see how any team Fedora coaches will ever have a dominating defense. And, I highly doubt they ever get any better than what you see each year. The reasons have been stated over and over.
I don't think Gene Chizik was any great coach either. UNC's offensive scheme makes a dominant defense impossible. The offense is what won games the last two seasons. And, when the offense is weak, you get what you see now.
I'll be happy to hear Fedora has been let go, or resigns, or takes another offer somewhere else. But, that's probably not going to happen for at least another few years. After this season is over- and it will be Fedora's worst season so far- he'll get another year to right the ship. Depending on how bad the team performs next season, will predict Fedora's future. Regardless, he and his schemes have peaked. Unless he can rebuild the offense to mimic the last two years, it will be a 5, 6, 7 win season.
There's multiple answers to your questions. Constant turnover at the position coaches doesn't help even though I would really only consider them average coaches.
Could recruiting have been better? Yes but it hasn't been awful. There is some talent out there. Dalton has legitimate NFL talent.
Some of the defensive coaches decisions are actually good, but others are just pathetic. It seems like every time we get the other team to 3rd & long we rush 3 or 4 at the most drop to some stupid zone that our guys can't properly execute and someone gets open and it's an easy 3rd down conversion. I'd actually love in these situations if we play man on the receivers and blitzed everyone else.
Now on to Fed. A lot of/majority of this falls on his shoulders. He'd rather every game be a shootout. Imo he's tailored made for the Big12. All offense and little defense. I remember reading when he first took the job he priororitizrd the offense because of the scholarship limits. What I wish he would have done was from day 1 was focus on the defense since he's this "great offensive guru" (he is good but he isn't great) that way by the time he got the normal scholarship number back he already had a defense built and since he is that guru he would have had a "complete team"
Could recruiting have been better? Yes but it hasn't been awful. There is some talent out there. Dalton has legitimate NFL talent.
Some of the defensive coaches decisions are actually good, but others are just pathetic. It seems like every time we get the other team to 3rd & long we rush 3 or 4 at the most drop to some stupid zone that our guys can't properly execute and someone gets open and it's an easy 3rd down conversion. I'd actually love in these situations if we play man on the receivers and blitzed everyone else.
Now on to Fed. A lot of/majority of this falls on his shoulders. He'd rather every game be a shootout. Imo he's tailored made for the Big12. All offense and little defense. I remember reading when he first took the job he priororitizrd the offense because of the scholarship limits. What I wish he would have done was from day 1 was focus on the defense since he's this "great offensive guru" (he is good but he isn't great) that way by the time he got the normal scholarship number back he already had a defense built and since he is that guru he would have had a "complete team"
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What you all describe is frustrating. We should be able to do better than this. The way I see UNC football is:
If you have double digit wins two years in a row, some big program will hire the coach away. If you win 6 games or less two years in a row, the coach gets fired. So, if you win 7,8. or 9 games each year, the coach can keep his job forever and perform to an ever frustrated fan base.
If you have double digit wins two years in a row, some big program will hire the coach away. If you win 6 games or less two years in a row, the coach gets fired. So, if you win 7,8. or 9 games each year, the coach can keep his job forever and perform to an ever frustrated fan base.
I was screaming at the TV every time they put Cole Holcomb on an island against there receivers or even a back out of the backfield running cross routes. I like Cole but he does't have the speed to cover. I was yelling "When is the D-Coord going to make the adjustment to stop this. They just kept exploiting it .....as they should.
Years ago Loyola had a College B-ball team that played like teams do today , up and down quick shots they could absolutely fill it up.. They Played the Heels and got killed , Moral to the story when your scheme is built like that if the other team has better skilled athletes you are playing into their hands..
Unless we decide to start running a defense like TCU's, and recruit speed players and get away from traditional roles, we can't really expect to see much improvement. Our offense is set up to move fast and score in bunches. Our defense isn't made to stop such an offense, nor is it designed with personnel who are equipped to run like the offense. Take linemen out of the equation and look at our LB's and DB's. We run typical LB's in a traditional formation. They aren't fast enough to be DB's and aren't big enough to be linemen, so they fall somewhere in the middle. The schemes are set up to match the personnel. Problem is offenses have faster skill position players, especially at QB and with slot receivers. The typical LB in man coverage against a faster player will get burned. When he has to try to catch someone like Jackson, he gets burned.
That is why I have always been a fan of Patterson's defenses. A 4-2-5 scheme with smaller and faster LB's than a typical set means you have way more speed at 7 positions to keep from getting burned as bad. Most offenses today are some variation of the spread and they want to operate faster to make defenses wear down. You negate that with players built to get the offense off the field faster and with players with more stamina than a typical player at that position. Plus, you have 2 LB's vs. 3 LB's in a typical defense and one more speedy DB giving you more options.
Unfortunately, I don't see us going away from what we have and I am afraid we won't see a vast improvement until we make strides to get coaches on the defensive side who understand that speed negates speed and who know how to recruit those types of players.
Just my very uneducated opinion.
That is why I have always been a fan of Patterson's defenses. A 4-2-5 scheme with smaller and faster LB's than a typical set means you have way more speed at 7 positions to keep from getting burned as bad. Most offenses today are some variation of the spread and they want to operate faster to make defenses wear down. You negate that with players built to get the offense off the field faster and with players with more stamina than a typical player at that position. Plus, you have 2 LB's vs. 3 LB's in a typical defense and one more speedy DB giving you more options.
Unfortunately, I don't see us going away from what we have and I am afraid we won't see a vast improvement until we make strides to get coaches on the defensive side who understand that speed negates speed and who know how to recruit those types of players.
Just my very uneducated opinion.
Can't teach a totally new Defense now too deep in, just roll with what you got and hope they can catch some breaks..
this is what happens when you run this offense...running a spread is fine, running a spread in a hurry and not being efficient is a killer.
this is his baby, though...i hate it, but i also thought if they could keep scoring at 27 or below, they could win this division every year.
here is you ppg allowed under "smart, fast, physical"
12- 25.7
13- 24.5
14- 38.9
15- 22.6
16- 24.9
17- 41
i could probably also find 3rd down conversion rate, 10+ yard plays, and yards allowed on 1st down.
this is his baby, though...i hate it, but i also thought if they could keep scoring at 27 or below, they could win this division every year.
here is you ppg allowed under "smart, fast, physical"
12- 25.7
13- 24.5
14- 38.9
15- 22.6
16- 24.9
17- 41
i could probably also find 3rd down conversion rate, 10+ yard plays, and yards allowed on 1st down.
Exactly.
If you run a spread, you must be very efficient, including clock management. Mike Leach's Texas Tech teams usually had a 1000 yard rusher, and they always used the passing game to run the clock and move the chains, by passing the ball 3-10 yards over the LOS and not right on the sidelines.
Fedora seems to me to desire the best backyard football offense in history. Nobody in backyard football gives a half flip about what the D needs, or how to best utilize the RB.
Very few LBs have the speed to cover WRs, even the slower ones. Few LBs have the speed to cover RBs one on one for more than a few yards.
The Card WRs made out DBs look slow and/or stupid, so it is a given our LBs were going to be able to cover them.
But he is a pretty good recruiter so 2 years ago he went on an 11 game win streak because the talent level was there.. If he is loaded he can make it work if not he is a one trick pony and will continue the way he does things with lesser talent and lose..This exact team with a year under its belt and top level recruits next year will be back to the 8-4 level that Most Tar Heel fans seem to deem acceptable..
They don't think it's acceptable. that's a big reason why there are so many empty seats. Expectations are too high because other sports are so successful.
Yeah, we did the same thing with Switzer and Logan the last few yrs to other teams when we could. Often we had to keep Logan/Hood back for additional blocking. If we had one more terror on the DL, maybe those RBs aren't leaking out for the pass.
You can't expect a shut-out vs Lamar even if you perfectly executed your plan, but something seems very wrong coaching-wise. Andre isn't a burner, but how many MLBs are?
I don't think team speed is that much of an issue. Deems is partly right, but how do you keep tight coverage on an RB when you are partly trying to spy Lamar? There is no perfect answer, you just hope to win a few plays...
Fedora's best years were also influenced by a schedule with several teams below their traditional norm.
Low major talent, on field for way too many plays due to our offensive strategy, no pass rush, lack team speed=UNC defense ranked last among power 5 conference teams
This will be the norm under Fedora. This offense is the offense he's played with his whole career. He ain't changing it and our defense, even with better talent, would only be mediocre at best. I'm in the boat that we toss Fedora at year end. Just not a winning recipe with his schemes against power 5 talent. It worked marginally in Conf USA....
This will be the norm under Fedora. This offense is the offense he's played with his whole career. He ain't changing it and our defense, even with better talent, would only be mediocre at best. I'm in the boat that we toss Fedora at year end. Just not a winning recipe with his schemes against power 5 talent. It worked marginally in Conf USA....
That's the tough part. We just aren't a desirable
Job right now for a lot of reasons. We need to find somebody that understand and emphasizes both sides of the ball. Look at the programs consistently in the top 25. They play both sides of the ball. These air raid offenses have success that comes and goes each year. The good programs have no less than a solid/competitive defense with an offense that has a nice balance of run and pass. The recipe really isn't rocket science but execution of it consistently is much harder.
Job right now for a lot of reasons. We need to find somebody that understand and emphasizes both sides of the ball. Look at the programs consistently in the top 25. They play both sides of the ball. These air raid offenses have success that comes and goes each year. The good programs have no less than a solid/competitive defense with an offense that has a nice balance of run and pass. The recipe really isn't rocket science but execution of it consistently is much harder.
Ok, so you want to fire him before we have someone in place? Hope that we get lucky and don't strike out on a hire for a job that is, according to you, not desirable? Makes sense.
High tempo offenses can stress D personnel, but many programs are going hurry-up these days.
As for longer drives, well, our OL is a mess. Hatton, then Khaliel leaving for two weeks, then Cohen, then Spain, now Dillard. Apparently Prince was dinged up pre-game.
As for longer drives, well, our OL is a mess. Hatton, then Khaliel leaving for two weeks, then Cohen, then Spain, now Dillard. Apparently Prince was dinged up pre-game.
We went 11-1 and nearly beat Clemson in the ACCCG and he stayed put. Fedora seems to be committed to Carolina. I wish I could say that the fans feel the same way about him.
Bingo. The spread isn't the problem, and running it at a high tempo isn't a problem either. But if the play calling is poor, or the execution is poor, then we don't get first downs, and THEN the defense gets stuck out on the field. If we are moving the ball down the field, then nobody should be complaining about it happening too quickly.
Aside from 14, and this year so far, those numbers should be good enough with this offense to win a lot of football games. And those are the numbers of the horrible defenses that we have all complained about so much. With better personnel and the right defensive scheme those numbers could improve significantly in the future.
The defense didn't lose the game against Cal. The poor play calling, and turovers lost that game. They got beat up on by Lamar Jackson, but that's going to happen to every defense he plays this season aside from possibly Clemson.
The talent was there, and - more important, I think - we had a season of remarkably few injuries. if the 2015 offense had had the same injuries and 'issues' on the OL and at RB and WR that we had in 2016, the 2015 offense would have been weaker, perhaps considerably, which would have exposed the problems on D more.
It starts with recruiting better. Need to keep the in-state talent on both sides of the ball, and sign some 4 and 5 star guys at every level of the defense. No reason why Carolina shouldn't be able to sign a top 10 class every year. That talent also has to be developed. There are obviously coaching issues on the defensive side of the ball. Recurring issues with tackling fundamentals and DB play immediately come to mind there. DC also has to be more creative to find ways to get pressure on the QB, because they got dominated up front in both games this year.
Fedora has to do a better job of play calling to help keep the defense off of the field. The scheme is extremely effective when it is working, but the biggest problem is stopping ourselves with poor play calling. I think Fedora has an issue with over thinking, where he assumes that if something was effective on one drive, then he should switch to something else because they will have already adjusted to what was working. Things like going away from an effective running game in the red zone, or just a complete lack of creativity (two draws and a screen) to give up an easy 3 and out, have got to stop. Those are critical errors that kill a teams chances to win a game that they otherwise should win.
Fedora has to do a better job of play calling to help keep the defense off of the field. The scheme is extremely effective when it is working, but the biggest problem is stopping ourselves with poor play calling. I think Fedora has an issue with over thinking, where he assumes that if something was effective on one drive, then he should switch to something else because they will have already adjusted to what was working. Things like going away from an effective running game in the red zone, or just a complete lack of creativity (two draws and a screen) to give up an easy 3 and out, have got to stop. Those are critical errors that kill a teams chances to win a game that they otherwise should win.
Our program is a cluster fork. We are staring a 4 win season straight in the eye. With Fed's extension thru 2022, I don't see things improving any time soon.
We have a promising (rs) freshman QB, two promising freshman RB's, and some young talent at WR as well like ARW. The future of the offense is extremely bright. If we can build a defense we could have an elite program in 2-3 years.
@uncboy10 but you're not going to convince me to like this system because for six years it's been this way.
he had dudes the previous two years that could've had 15-20 touches per game and still didn't take advantage of it...sure, we can say in 2015 it worked for the most part, he and seth littrel lost that scarolina game, though...and maybe they lose another game if they beat scarolina that year to still go 11-1, but his philosophy is my issue.
i'll never forget post-georgia in 2016 when he said; "we always want to be balanced...i take a look at balance at the end of year...we take what the defense gives us."
i'd like to hear this; "our offense will not be dictated by what the other team does...we are going to be as physical as we can be at the point of attack...our goal is to impose our will on the ground or in the air."
he had dudes the previous two years that could've had 15-20 touches per game and still didn't take advantage of it...sure, we can say in 2015 it worked for the most part, he and seth littrel lost that scarolina game, though...and maybe they lose another game if they beat scarolina that year to still go 11-1, but his philosophy is my issue.
i'll never forget post-georgia in 2016 when he said; "we always want to be balanced...i take a look at balance at the end of year...we take what the defense gives us."
i'd like to hear this; "our offense will not be dictated by what the other team does...we are going to be as physical as we can be at the point of attack...our goal is to impose our will on the ground or in the air."
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