Without going back and reading all the previous posts what’s the reason for no longer being in the Coleman Hawkins sweepstakes?
2024 Transfer Portal Thread
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Depending on whom you ask:
1. We don't need anyone else
2. He wants too much money
3. He's not a particularly good fit now that we have Lubin
Did I forget anything?
There was one " first come first serve" spot left (per the coaches) and Lubin grabbed it.
Well, Hawkins is a 4 that thinks he is a 3 and needs to be the featured guy on what ever team he plays for next season. We have all we need at the 4, I would suggest we have more for the 4 spot than we actually need and if there is another spot we are even deeper at it would be the 3. Hawkins was not the guy I wanted at any point of the portal season, others may disagree, but I have never seen the fit with us and still don't, MUCH rather have Lubin.
It definitely isn't #3.
Lubin is more of a traditional post who does all his work inside the arc, and is particularly good at putbacks. Hawkins is more of a perimeter face-up forward. They are complimentary players. They would have fit very well together with Hawkins shooting and Lubin cleaning up the misses.
Our front court is definitely the weakest part of our roster and the biggest question mark heading into next season. Lubin is the only proven guy and he's going to have to play a LOT of center.
Our perimeter is the strength of this team (Cadeau, Davis, Trimble, Jackson, Powell, Tyson.) If you're a glass half full kind of guy you could say that the front court weakness will result in more playing time for those perimeter players as we'll likely play more small ball to fill in the talent void in our front court. 6'7" Cade Tyson seems likely to play the majority of his minutes at the stretch 4 (now open with the loss of 6'7" Harrison Ingram.) Had we added a talent like Coleman Hawkins that would not have happened, and our perimeter players would have a much more drastic minutes crunch.
Hawkins felt he was worth a certain amount of money and UNC didn’t feel the same way…
Let’s rephrase #3, he’s not a particularly good fit because he’s likely a locker room cancer!
Wait… Is there talk that Cade Tyson isn’t going to start? He might be the best catch-and-shoot 3PT shooter in the country, lol.
I would think Cadeau, RJ, and Tyson are locks to start. And I would have Tyson starting as a bigger lock over Cadeau to be honest. You cannot leave that level of shooting on the bench.
My guess is Cadeau-RJ-Tyson-Lubin-Washington (or some other 4/5 combo) starts day 1. And that’s only based on Hubert starting Wojcik over Cadeau last year.
I know people won’t want to hear this but if Tyson’s shooting is as advertised, he needs to be on the floor 31-33 MPG. That’s like Wayne Ellington 2009 tournament MVP level of shooting. He needs to play major minutes unless Jackson or Powell show they’re legitimate perimeter shooting options.
I would think Cadeau, RJ, and Tyson are locks to start. And I would have Tyson starting as a bigger lock over Cadeau to be honest. You cannot leave that level of shooting on the bench.
My guess is Cadeau-RJ-Tyson-Lubin-Washington (or some other 4/5 combo) starts day 1. And that’s only based on Hubert starting Wojcik over Cadeau last year.
I know people won’t want to hear this but if Tyson’s shooting is as advertised, he needs to be on the floor 31-33 MPG. That’s like Wayne Ellington 2009 tournament MVP level of shooting. He needs to play major minutes unless Jackson or Powell show they’re legitimate perimeter shooting options.
Same lineup I have been touting since we completed our roster! Silly to even think EC is somehow a lesser lock than anyone not named RJ but the rest stands. Their are only two questions remaining in my mind:
1. Will JWash start at 4 or 5? (Lubin gets the other)
2. Will Cap be so dynamic he demands to be a starter?
Hubs is building something special and he has shown the fortitude to buck current trends and return to roster building the proven Carolina Way! Can't adjust = ridiculous! College bball is in a season of change like it hasn't seen since they allowed players to play both ends of the court! Hubs came in as a new coach in an era so difficult that legend threw in the towel! We are blessed to have someone who could follow in the footsteps of our great coaches, restore UNC to its rightful place, and maintain our ethical standards! Let him grow into a truly great coach and enjoy the ride IMO!
These are some dadgummed GDTBATH!
Agree.
AJ says he hits 60% of his uncontested treys. 46% overall, from deep. Even if those numbers should slide a bit, that's still pretty amazing.
The real question might be whether he will get those uncontested shots. Will we run plays to make sure he's open?
What's the strategy when the opponent has a Leaky they can dedicate to staying in Cade's grill?
The question I'm waiting to see answered is who has improved enough to start: JWit or JWash.
I expect both to be improved. JWash seems to have more offensive upside but JWit was a lot closer to being a starter by the end of last season.
It won't surprise me if JWit gets the nod, and the starting slot remains his to lose. But I hope JWash has turned the corner enough to earn starter-level minutes.
JWash needs to show he can handle long minutes (and be effective). In the 2 years he's been with us, he's only played over 20 minutes in 1 game - 27 min against UVa as a frosh when Armando was injured in the first minute. In that game he looked great in the first half and was pretty much MIA in the 2nd.
The good news is that JWash has improved year-over-year - unlike, for example, Sterling Manley.
I expect JWash to give us a lot more minutes as a junior, but if he is still a year away from giving us starter minutes, we have backups.
I am going to temper expectation on Tyson until the season starts. Nance came in advertised as a plug and play for Manek because he shot 45% from deep the previous year, and that was against big 10 teams. Tyson played one game against a ranked team last season and put up 3 points.
I would love to see him have a Dalton Knecht-type season (in which case Heels are probably in FF again) but will settle for Ingram level of production. Transfers are always question marks especially if coming from a non-P 5 conference. The mid majors just do not have as many guys with the same size/athleticism levels.
I think the kid will have a solid season and am glad the Heels have him. I am hoping he is able to play the majority of minutes at whatever position he feels most comfortable and is not having to play out of position for long stretches.
I would love to see him have a Dalton Knecht-type season (in which case Heels are probably in FF again) but will settle for Ingram level of production. Transfers are always question marks especially if coming from a non-P 5 conference. The mid majors just do not have as many guys with the same size/athleticism levels.
I think the kid will have a solid season and am glad the Heels have him. I am hoping he is able to play the majority of minutes at whatever position he feels most comfortable and is not having to play out of position for long stretches.
Sterling had a significant injury. I still wish we would have gotten that last year out of him, he would have been a big time addition in my opinion.
JWash's entire focus for off season hopefully is conditioning, strength, conditioning and more conditioning.
He's never had a long run of games and is not a widebody so when he is low he will be targeted.
My biggest worry is injury recurrence for him which leaves a slim front court with no option but to throw an untested frosh in the mix at 5... unless ZH is putting on some major weight.
He's never had a long run of games and is not a widebody so when he is low he will be targeted.
My biggest worry is injury recurrence for him which leaves a slim front court with no option but to throw an untested frosh in the mix at 5... unless ZH is putting on some major weight.
If a team is dumb enough to put their best on ball defender on a catch-and-shoot player, then give the ball to RJ.
The biggest question is will he shoot at that elite rate here. He’s been a great shooter for 2 seasons with significant sample size so I don’t think this is a Pete Nance situation.
But if Cade Tyson is a merely good 3pt shooter (36-38%), I think it does limit this team. I know the focus is on the bigs. But if RJ and Cade don’t shoot as well as they did last year, it will limit how good this team can be unless Ian Jackson and Drake Powell are ready for primetime.
I would not undersell Ingram level of production. Maybe people don't realize how good Ingram was last season. I would be ecstatic with Ingram level of production from CT, but I know CT is not even the same type of player.
When I watched Manek shoot, the thing that jumped out at me was just how quickly he got his shot off, he was in to his shooting motion on the catch, did matter if it was coming off screens or straight catch and shoot. Manek was what, 6'8-9" maybe and weighted around 225 or so, was not awful as a defender due to his effort and motor but was not a shot down defender either.
After watching a lot of Tyson's games last season his shooting motion is eerily similar to Maneks, in to his shooting motion on the catch, very quick trigger but really strong accuracy. At 6'7" and a reported 205lbs, not as thick as Manek which I think limits his ability to play the 4, at least on the defensive end. Nice motor, the kid will bring the effort, seems to make solid decisions, I think he will be a solid passer but I see him as a wing 3 more than a 4.
I bring this up because last season, thou Ingram shot well, at least early season, did kind of fall off later season, Ingram was a lot slower to get his shot off. Ryan, was a strong catch and shoot guy but coming off screens his jump shooting was much more erratic. Neither Ingram or Ryan and absolutely Paxon had the quick trigger that I saw in Manek or see in Tyson. This is why Tyson will start for us. You put Tyson next to RJ in the starting line up and you have deadly jump shooters that can not be left to double anyone else it tests a defense. Ingram and Ryan got a LOT of really clean jumpers last season, Tyson will get cleaner looks than he got last season. Shutting down 1 go to shooter is hard, shutting down 2, well ask the NBA about the splash brothers in their prime. To say this clearly, I think Tyson is a upgrade shooter from Ingram, Ryan, or Paxon (thou he is not the back down shoot over you guy Ingram was).
Cadeau, keep in mind, Cadeau was not just a freshman last season, he was a reclassed freshman. Look around the NCAA and how reclassed freshmen have played. Some have done OK but most seem to not be near the hype as freshmen but that following season, there is a major uptick. Thou I don't think jump shooting will ever be his calling card, I do think Cadeau can become a jump shooter that teams will have to stay on, where they will not be able to leave him alone and dare him to shoot, like you watched bama do to him. And really that is all we need him to do, be able to hit the wide open, we dare you to shoot it jumper. Put all this together with Lubin's deadly under estimated mid range game and Jallen's ability to hit either the mid range but can step out to trey after setting the high screen, we have offensive fire power. I have defensive concerns for sure but I do strongly believe we wil be a more efficient and deadly shooting team.
After watching a lot of Tyson's games last season his shooting motion is eerily similar to Maneks, in to his shooting motion on the catch, very quick trigger but really strong accuracy. At 6'7" and a reported 205lbs, not as thick as Manek which I think limits his ability to play the 4, at least on the defensive end. Nice motor, the kid will bring the effort, seems to make solid decisions, I think he will be a solid passer but I see him as a wing 3 more than a 4.
I bring this up because last season, thou Ingram shot well, at least early season, did kind of fall off later season, Ingram was a lot slower to get his shot off. Ryan, was a strong catch and shoot guy but coming off screens his jump shooting was much more erratic. Neither Ingram or Ryan and absolutely Paxon had the quick trigger that I saw in Manek or see in Tyson. This is why Tyson will start for us. You put Tyson next to RJ in the starting line up and you have deadly jump shooters that can not be left to double anyone else it tests a defense. Ingram and Ryan got a LOT of really clean jumpers last season, Tyson will get cleaner looks than he got last season. Shutting down 1 go to shooter is hard, shutting down 2, well ask the NBA about the splash brothers in their prime. To say this clearly, I think Tyson is a upgrade shooter from Ingram, Ryan, or Paxon (thou he is not the back down shoot over you guy Ingram was).
Cadeau, keep in mind, Cadeau was not just a freshman last season, he was a reclassed freshman. Look around the NCAA and how reclassed freshmen have played. Some have done OK but most seem to not be near the hype as freshmen but that following season, there is a major uptick. Thou I don't think jump shooting will ever be his calling card, I do think Cadeau can become a jump shooter that teams will have to stay on, where they will not be able to leave him alone and dare him to shoot, like you watched bama do to him. And really that is all we need him to do, be able to hit the wide open, we dare you to shoot it jumper. Put all this together with Lubin's deadly under estimated mid range game and Jallen's ability to hit either the mid range but can step out to trey after setting the high screen, we have offensive fire power. I have defensive concerns for sure but I do strongly believe we wil be a more efficient and deadly shooting team.
Tyson does not have the 233lbs that Ingram played with or the 7ft wing span Ingram has, I don't see Tyson as a version of Ingram, I see him as a version of Manek with that really quick trigger accurate jumper and nice motor.
Right, no disagreement with you @DSouthr. I was only addressing the poster who would "settle" for Ingram level of production.
Open jump shots are the same thing, no matter what level you play be it high school, AAU, community college or a major power NCAA team. It is the highly guarded jump shots that differ and efficiency on them depends on shot selection. Ingram was not known as a big time jump shooter prior to coming to us, when asked why he shot so much better with us he consistently answered it was because he got a lot more clean looks than he got at Stanford. At Belmont Tyson was the focus for most opponents to stop but he was not playing beside a guy like RJ that demands defenses to double on the catch, mean Tyson's looks should be easier rather than harder. That quick trigger is a real difference maker.
Tell me what aspects you see that may make his shooting efficiency drop? Will be glad to discuss that but for example you can't give me Paxon as an example because Paxon didn't have that quick trigger Tyson has. Can't give me Ryan either because Ryan really struggled shooting while coming off screens on the move, again, it took Ryan a bit longer to get his shot off than Tyson shows. Again, these things make a real difference when we are talking about what a kid's shooting efficiency may be.
I don’t really think the shooting will drop off. Although if the 60% on open 3s stat is accurate, that’s pretty absurd and wouldn’t surprise me if that fell to closer to 50%. At 60%, that means Cade’s open 3s is a much more efficient shot than Armando Bacot dunks.
Even a 46% 3pt shooting season is pretty incredible. While I don’t expect it to drop 10%, I would be surprised if he didn’t fall a few percentage points.
Hey, did not take it as disagreement at all, I was looking to add to what you posted and not disagree. For me Tyson and Ingram are very different type players, both have aspects of their games that are better than the other. Both have really strong motors is about the only similar thing I see between them. I really wonder why so often I see folks talking about Ingram compared to Tyson and not Ryan compared to Tyson, considering how they both will be UNC wings and not 4s as opposed to Ingram being our starting 4 all last season?
I think there will be some times early season where Tyson may be more hesitant to take the shot, that was true with Brady early on. But after the initial adjustment, he may not shoot the crazy numbers he did last season as his teams go to shooter but I would not suspect a huge drop off at all. But UNC plays consistently bigger games against much stronger opponents with way more talent around him that can have him defer more than maybe he should, Nance for example never really got that figured out, Ingram on the other hand got past that real quick.
Every time Cam Johnson shot, I thought it was going in until it didn’t. I hope I get those same vibes from Tyson, but I agree with some, the jury is still out. If he is productive it will definitely help the 1-2 spots being able to get to the rim, & even Jackson if he’s playing the 3.
I think my open threes are a more efficient shot than an Armando Bacot dunk.
Too soon?
I like Tyson, he has a chance to be just what the doctor ordered. I do have concerns, mainly getting totally locked down against the one top ranked opponent, Arizona, 1-7/0-4 on 3's (3 point game). The best dee team in the MVC, Drake, he was 5-15/0-4 on 3's. Belmont played a extreme motion ball movement offense, he will have more talent around him, true, but also much better sized athletic defenders every night checking him except for the couple early cupcakes.
The Manek comparison I see with quick release, looking for his shot always. I disagree with Manek being a solid defender. His "motor" and "want to" was his knock at Oklahoma, and why he can't find a spot in the league. He was THE elite shooting big in the country at Oklahoma already, with good size. Did it at All-Conference level at a Big 5 tournament team at Oklahoma. He has that sought after size and skill set still, but not the rest for the NBA. Manek getting his shot would translate easily coming from Oklahoma, no doubt, the rest needed to improve, and it did some, especially effort on that defensive end, but was still a target.
Tyson's dee will be tested at this level as well. He needs to show that he can get looks against elite dee and shoot it at that high %. If he does that he can offset him being targeted a bit on dee. EC and RJ were already targets. I'm hoping he is that perfect fit, and believe he can be, but not as confident as some.
The Manek comparison I see with quick release, looking for his shot always. I disagree with Manek being a solid defender. His "motor" and "want to" was his knock at Oklahoma, and why he can't find a spot in the league. He was THE elite shooting big in the country at Oklahoma already, with good size. Did it at All-Conference level at a Big 5 tournament team at Oklahoma. He has that sought after size and skill set still, but not the rest for the NBA. Manek getting his shot would translate easily coming from Oklahoma, no doubt, the rest needed to improve, and it did some, especially effort on that defensive end, but was still a target.
Tyson's dee will be tested at this level as well. He needs to show that he can get looks against elite dee and shoot it at that high %. If he does that he can offset him being targeted a bit on dee. EC and RJ were already targets. I'm hoping he is that perfect fit, and believe he can be, but not as confident as some.
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That just means that defender won’t double and help on someone else.
We lost our top 2 rebounders. Almost half of the entire team's rebounding (46..5%).
Yes, Armando and Ingram played 31.5% of the total minutes, and the other 9 guys combined, playing all the rest of the minutes, barely got more rebounds.
If Tyson plays PF, I can see him matching or even improving on Ingram's 12.2 ppg, but not on his 8.8 rbg. Ingram's extra 25 lb of muscle let him mix it up more than I expect Cade to.
Nor do I see anyone replacing Armando's 10.3 rbg and maybe not his 14.5 ppg, either.
Like Armando, Lubin was his team's top rebounder. Also Vandy's #3 scorer (Armando was #2 for us). But his numbers were 6.6 and 12.3, respectively - noticeably lower than Armando's. To be fair, that was on a more deliberate team, so maybe Lubin's numbers will improve at a faster pace.
If you look at per-40 numbers, JWash is closer to Armando than JWit or Lubin). Interestingly, the per-40 numbers for Lubin and JWit are somewhat similar. Lubin scored a bit more, JWit was a bit better on rebounds.
Bottom line, we need JWash to be able to handle a lot more minutes without any drop-off in scoring or rebounding.
Yes, Armando and Ingram played 31.5% of the total minutes, and the other 9 guys combined, playing all the rest of the minutes, barely got more rebounds.
If Tyson plays PF, I can see him matching or even improving on Ingram's 12.2 ppg, but not on his 8.8 rbg. Ingram's extra 25 lb of muscle let him mix it up more than I expect Cade to.
Nor do I see anyone replacing Armando's 10.3 rbg and maybe not his 14.5 ppg, either.
Like Armando, Lubin was his team's top rebounder. Also Vandy's #3 scorer (Armando was #2 for us). But his numbers were 6.6 and 12.3, respectively - noticeably lower than Armando's. To be fair, that was on a more deliberate team, so maybe Lubin's numbers will improve at a faster pace.
If you look at per-40 numbers, JWash is closer to Armando than JWit or Lubin). Interestingly, the per-40 numbers for Lubin and JWit are somewhat similar. Lubin scored a bit more, JWit was a bit better on rebounds.
Bottom line, we need JWash to be able to handle a lot more minutes without any drop-off in scoring or rebounding.
I also think we have to remember that these guys are a year older come next season. That usually translates to better more productive play. Even from guys who were good last year. While I don’t expect RJ to score more, he may be more efficient. Jwash could show us a side we’ve never seen before just by simply getting minutes. And in his role one would think he knows he can’t foul as much and should be better at moving those feet. If EC finds a serviceable shot then that changes everything imo.
Hope we make about 20-25 , 3pt shots a game ..... gonna be alot different style offense with a short center
I'd hope and expect Jackson, Cadeau, Trimble, and Powell to attack the basket off the dribble a lot.
Obviously Cade Tyson at the 4 spreads the floor and pulls a big man away from the basket. Washington at the 5 should do the same. Lubin has a solid midrange shot that he could hypothetically extend to the 3pt line and space the floor.
I think the idea isn't just bomb 3s all game long. It's for the big men to be good enough shooters that the paint is left open for our guards/wings to attack off the dribble.
The following is NOT a direct reply to you dtodd4475 , just didn't know where to put this.....
Everyone looking for comps for Cade Tysen, only need to look at his family. His Brother Huntter was a role player for 2 years before his Jr season? Was cut short due to injury.
His Sr season though, he was a STUD! Big time defender, tough rebounder and extremely efficient scorer. 1st team all ACC, and now playing in the NBA.
Cade is further along offensively than Huntter was in any of his first 3 seasons and just looks like a more comfortable offensive player. He may only weigh 205 lbs right now, but that is a cut 205. I easily see him playing at 225-230 before he leaves Carolina, and that my friends is a definite 4 man. I feel like he will follow his brother's footsteps and live in the weight room next two years. Cade Tysen will be the steal of the portal over the next two seasons.
My hope is that JWit, High, JWash, and Lubin step up to the point that Tyson never has to spend major minutes at 4. I defer to what they do in practice and/or pre-season games though because it is far more important to see how peeps play together than to simply note their individual abilities!
I am definitely on board with that TP !!!
I get that we can see Tyson at the 4 in a small ball look and it creates minutes for Seth, Ian and Drake. But I really don't think his playing at the 4 is something that I want to see for big minutes. Sorry but when I look at the 4 and see JWit, Lubin, and High I see 3 guys that are much better fits for the power forward position than a 6'7" 205lbs guy? This reminds me of Justin Peirce and granted I do expect more scoring from Tyson but on the other end I am concerned that he may be a version of Peirce. Pierce was 6'7 and 210lbs.
We don't have a ton to go on right now, all we can do is access the individual pieces and speculate on how they may come together, an inaccurate science at best. On a winning team, the sum of the parts is greater than the individual pieces, that is where chemistry rules the day.
K St is going to be pretty loaded. Hawkins on top of Onyenso and the starting PG from Michigan, just for starters. I don't know enough about them to know what they lost, but that's a good haul.
$2 million for Hawkins.
$2 million for Osabor.
How do the top names who got a mere $1 million or even less feel about that?
I bet their agents will be in demand.
$2 million for Osabor.
How do the top names who got a mere $1 million or even less feel about that?
I bet their agents will be in demand.
