Alabama vs. Clemson IV Thread

[WoadBlue]

Oh man, and I just saw it came from that moron Pat Forde. Even better.

Forde has hated the ACC forever - I assume from the womb. Even Louisville getting in barely dinted it. He hates UNC most, but he loves to take shots at any ACC program that is among the ACC's best and most important.

So he almost never trashes Moo.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

It's probably just me, but Dabo reminds me of Super Dave Osbourne for some reason.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Is paul finebum on suicide watch today ?

 

[WoadBlue]

Is paul finebum on suicide watch today ?

I just turned it on because of your post, and Finebaum evidently was talking about how Bama could be displaced next year by several SEC teams. Bama, he said, will open the season with a joke - Dook - but after that the mighty SEC could produce 5 or 6 teams able to dethrone the Tide.

 

[WoadBlue]

Discussion on Saban's age: will be 68 next year. Is that too old to regroup and come back a huge winner?

Mack is the same age - Finebaum did not say that.

Emphasis that many see this year's staff as weakest Saban has had at Bama.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Discussion on Saban's age: will be 68 next year. Is that too old to regroup and come back a huge winner?

Mack is the same age - Finebaum did not say that.

Emphasis that many see this year's staff as weakest Saban has had at Bama.

Isn’t Roy also 68? I don’t see that as being too old. Saban seems like a youngish guy for late 60’s. I do think that he’s lost so many coordinators over the years that it has to be taking a toll. Now, Clemson needs to do everything they can to keep their staff together for as long as they can.

 

[OhiotoSC]

Don't be fooled. Clemson's success all starts and stops with Dabo. Venebles is good, but no better than many others. The difference? He has better players. And that always is the difference. Few seem to remember when Venebles was getting g demoted at Oklahoma because the same scheme's he runs now couldn't stop a cold.

I can promise you he’s working with less talent now than he was at OU. We have, basically, a walk-on starting at Safety who’s other option was Samford. Tanner Muse had a great game and is solid, but below average in coverage and came out of HS with mostly mid-major offers. Our starting MLB is a local kid nobody knew about until we offered, and is limited athletically. LB’s JD and Judah Davis had no other offers out of HS and we offered simply because they’re the sons of a former Clemson legend. All of these guys are starters or play significant snaps

I’m not saying we don’t have elite talent, but we’re not talking about an entire starting defense of former 5 Star guys like Bama. BV would be a HUGE loss

 

[midline]

You have as many as Bama. Half the seniors on that defense are going in the first round. Everybody else in that defense that are draft eligible declared today. And you are right. Muse isn't great in coverage. But he isn't out there for that .He basically is a quick linebacker they bring down to stuff the run and cover slants as they figure the front will put so much pressure on the QB that one won't have the chance to beat them long. He was a three star. So I guess you can say Bama was undermanned at RB because their number 8 was a 3 star as well.

 

[WoadBlue]

I can promise you he’s working with less talent now than he was at OU. We have, basically, a walk-on starting at Safety who’s other option was Samford. Tanner Muse had a great game and is solid, but below average in coverage and came out of HS with mostly mid-major offers. Our starting MLB is a local kid nobody knew about until we offered, and is limited athletically. LB’s JD and Judah Davis had no other offers out of HS and we offered simply because they’re the sons of a former Clemson legend. All of these guys are starters or play significant snaps

I’m not saying we don’t have elite talent, but we’re not talking about an entire starting defense of former 5 Star guys like Bama. BV would be a HUGE loss

Tanner Muse is an NC kid who was pursued heavily by UNC (for LB). So I recall something of his recruitment. I think he had other ACC offers from Dook, Wake, NCSU, UVA, VT, as well as Clemson. GT had major interest in him. He also drew major interest from Tennessee, Vanderbilt and SoCar, though he may not have received a commitable offer from any of them because it was clear fairly early that he intended to play in the ACC.

Muse was not a mid-major recruit who got very lucky that Clemson found a slot for him, saving him from playing at App St or ECU.

 

[WoadBlue]

Isn’t Roy also 68? I don’t see that as being too old. Saban seems like a youngish guy for late 60’s. I do think that he’s lost so many coordinators over the years that it has to be taking a toll. Now, Clemson needs to do everything they can to keep their staff together for as long as they can.

To be 68 and in control of a program that you have been running for a decade or more that is running smoothly is one thing. To be 68 and needing to make overhauls of a program you've been running for years is tougher thing (tougher than if you are 58). To be 68 and trying to rebuild a program after sitting out for 5 years, now that is something else.

 

[TarHeelMark]

To be 68 and in control of a program that you have been running for a decade or more that is running smoothly is one thing. To be 68 and needing to make overhauls of a program you've been running for years is tougher thing (tougher than if you are 58). To be 68 and trying to rebuild a program after sitting out for 5 years, now that is something else.

Yeah, that’s valid.

To his credit, it looks like Mack is putting together a solid staff and recruiters, and that will certainly help. I’m hopeful that he’ll have the Heels back on the right path quickly and when he retires, Bubba (or whoever the AD is then) will not make the same mistakes that were made the last time.

 

[JimmyinVA]

... To be 68 and trying to rebuild a program after sitting out for 5 years, now that is something else.

what exactly are the age related deficits that you suspect will hinder mack's performance?

 

[Tigertown_a_Rick]

Heard on the local Clemson network this morning that Saban won his second Title as Coach when he was 58, and Dabo is only 49 when he claimed his second on Monday night....

As for the game against Carolina next year, Clemson loses just about their entire defense, and lose several key offensive lineman, but they of course return Lawrence and most of those dynamic WRs and the RB Etienne...They also have other talented players waiting in the wings for their chance at stardom....Not to Mention, they have 17 early enrollees, so they probably ain't slowing down any time soon....

As for whether Dabo returns to Alabama, I agree with others that he is making his own mark at Clemson, and sooner rather than later, will either have the Field or Stadium named in his honor, and I also expect a statue to be erected of him before too much longer which of course makes it very difficult for him to return to Bama as a Coach....

As for Venables, He is making roughly 2+ million a year to Coach the defense, and his oldest son Jake is an upcoming LBer who will likely see the field next season....His youngest son was a QB at nearby Daniel High School this past season, and led his team to the Upper State Final this year, and will likely follow his brother to Clemson....In short, Venables ain't likely to leave either which means get used to Clemson being on the National Stage....Both the Co-Offensive Coordinators have already stated that they are not leaving for anything other than a Head Coaching job...If one leaves, the other will take over the Offensive duties which will likely not slow Clemson down at all....

I just hope that Carolina becomes Clemson's opponent in the ACC Championship game on a regular basis....

 

[WoadBlue]

what exactly are the age related deficits that you suspect will hinder mack's performance?

The same ones that hit us all. Eventually, even a JoePa and Bobby Bowden go over the hill. Those two went over the hill so far and for so long that the programs could not fully recover for several years (VT still hasn't made it).

If we are fortunate, Mack will ease out gracefully before he gets to the point that he can't really see what he has lost - both Bowden and Paterno coached for years after that was true of them.

 

[JimmyinVA]

The same ones that hit us all.....

...To be 68 and trying to rebuild a program after sitting out for 5 years, now that is something else.

"sitting out" sounds like he's been sleeping on a beach. in fact, mack has stayed connected to the game, networking, solidifying the respect he has earned, reviewing his career so he can apply his successes and learn from his mistakes, recharging his batteries, and ready to show his love for carolina by winning a whole bunch of football games. you are wrong about mack being to old to turn our trash heap program into a winner. he's ready to roll!

 

[JimmyinVA]

The same ones that hit us all. Eventually, even a JoePa and Bobby Bowden go over the hill. Those two went over the hill so far and for so long that the programs could not fully recover for several years (VT still hasn't made it).

If we are fortunate, Mack will ease out gracefully before he gets to the point that he can't really see what he has lost - both Bowden and Paterno coached for years after that was true of them.

so what are these deficits that "hit us all"? i'm 66 and better than ever at my job. your examples are a selective list. you could list many successful older guys and many younger guys who failed miserably. you greatly underestimate the value of experience. in short, late 60's is not too old if you keep yourself mentally and physically healthy.

 

[uncboy10]

so what are these deficits that "hit us all"? i'm 66 and better than ever at my job. your examples are a selective list. you could list many successful older guys and many younger guys who failed miserably. you greatly underestimate the value of experience. in short, late 60's is not too old if you keep yourself mentally and physically healthy.

Very good points. Late 60's look very different on different people. Especially if they take care of themselves, which Mack clearly has done. He looks about ten years younger than he actually is IMO

 

[OhiotoSC]

Tanner Muse is an NC kid who was pursued heavily by UNC (for LB). So I recall something of his recruitment. I think he had other ACC offers from Dook, Wake, NCSU, UVA, VT, as well as Clemson. GT had major interest in him. He also drew major interest from Tennessee, Vanderbilt and SoCar, though he may not have received a commitable offer from any of them because it was clear fairly early that he intended to play in the ACC.

Muse was not a mid-major recruit who got very lucky that Clemson found a slot for him, saving him from playing at App St or ECU.

Ok, but my point stands. He is average in coverage at best. He, along with many others at key positions on our D, aren’t uber talented freaks. Just saying it’s ridiculous to dismiss BV’s role in our success so easily. He’s the one coach we worry most about leaving

 

[WoadBlue]

Ok, but my point stands. He is average in coverage at best. He, along with many others at key positions on our D, aren’t uber talented freaks. Just saying it’s ridiculous to dismiss BV’s role in our success so easily. He’s the one coach we worry most about leaving

I agree that Venables is a truly 1st rate DC. I felt of him at OU what now most OU fans feel: that Mike Stoops was the drag on the OU D, and that Venables was held down by the Stoops Brothers ties.

But the Clemson D is also loaded with talent the past 4 years.

That's the way it works: a team's D has major issues. The right DC is hired and turned loose. As it is revealed that he truly is first rate, more top recruits want to play for him. Before long, the truly 1st rate DC has the talent he needs to produce the D to dominate seasons.

Dabo's genius is that he realized that is the pattern he must oversee for both sides of the ball, and then in picking the right two coaches: Venables and Morris. He the extended his genius in replacing Morris with co-OCs (meaning no one OC could try to undo what Morris established) to run the well oiled machine created a Master.

The system is running more than smoothly.

 

[darylcu]

Actually, this just goes to show how sometimes these AD's are not the know everything guys they are sometimes given credit for. Dabo was far from the first choice when he got the job. They wanted a bigger name, but couldn't get anybody to bite. In the meantime Dabo beat a couple meager ACC teams, and most importantly USC, during his term as interim. And in his way, said all the right things that made the Clemson nation feel good. At the end of the process he was their best option by default. Sometimes the Lord takes care of us when we don't have the sense to take care of ourselves.

That is so wrong it's not even funny. Why is a SC fan on a NC board trying to explain Clemson's coaching history?

 

[WoadBlue]

That is so wrong it's not even funny. Why is a SC fan on a NC board trying to explain Clemson's coaching history?

It starts from ignorance of Terry Don Philips. If you know nothing of him, the story of him having the hunch that Dabo could do the job very well may seem outrageous fiction. If you know Phillips's ties to Frank Broyles and Broyes' views on finding coaches who 'fit' in that place and have that something special to cut against the grain and to be bold in doing so, while also having the humility to check yourself. to make certain you are doing things the best possible, then it makes sense.

Frank Broyles would have loved the young Dabo and wanted him groomed to take over.

 

[Will4Clemson]

Very good points. Late 60's look very different on different people. Especially if they take care of themselves, which Mack clearly has done. He looks about ten years younger than he actually is IMO

I'm really close friends with one of your new signees and his parents. His mom told me a story about Mack's visit to their house.

Mack mentioned that him and Saban were the same age and went on to say, "the difference between Coach Saban and I, is he dyes his hair and I don't give a shit about mine."

 

[uncboy10]

I'm really close friends with one of your new signees and his parents. His mom told me a story about Mack's visit to their house.

Mack mentioned that him and Saban were the same age and went on to say, "the difference between Coach Saban and I, is he dyes his hair and I don't give a shit about mine."

Lol that’s awesome

 

[TVJ]

Dang. Some of you guys make it sound like at 68 you have one foot in the grave. I passed that mark over a decade a go. I still get up at 4am every morning, work out for at least 30-45 minutes, and hold down one full-time and two part-time jobs. I'm not boasting, just saying that 68 isn't near as crippling as some seem to think if you have good health and take reasonable care of yourself. To quote the old adage, "age is mind over matter - if you don't mind, it doesn't matter." .