Alumni game

[NathanFielder]

Do you see them as playing together with Tyson as a small stretch 4 for a good chunk of that time? I think if Cadeau improves as most hope/expect, and earns big minutes, well RJ ain't sitting much, where does Ian's minutes come from? With Seth/Drake in the mix on top of that, not playing Ian substantial minutes might be seen as coaching malpractice as well if he is ready, especially to future recruits with NBA aspirations.

The short answer is I don't know yet. But I don't think our frontcourt will be good enough to keep an elite shooter on the bench for a ton. That would be an insane luxury to have. It's the offseason, so everyone looks amazing and every team has 10 dudes that will come at you in waves. The reality is that probably isn't true.

First off, I think Jackson would take Seth's minutes as the first guard off the bench. Everyone here loves Seth and loves his loyalty. But over time, if Jackson is a 3-level scorer, he's going to play over a developing but limited offensive player in Seth. This isn't like last year when Seth's only bench competition was Wojcik. Seth has real competition now. And if he continues to be a 0 shooter, or someone unwilling to take open 3s, then it looks like there are frankly better options than him off the bench. As things stand right now, it wouldn't surprise me if Seth's role is limited. There are several 2-way potential players with Jackson and Powell. If that's the case, Seth can't be a one-way player that he mainly has been for 2 seasons. If he is, it's Seth's role that will get reduced.

Tyson's shooting makes him too valuable. If you have to guard him out to 30 feet, he makes everyone around him better. We don't have that presence aside from him. Everyone else offensively needs the ball in their hands to make the team better offensively. Cadeau is a 0 off the ball. RJ has some credibility off the ball, he's a ball-in-his-hands player. Jackson looks like a ball-dominant guard to me too. And I don't think Trimble is really a threat without the ball but he can provide some spark on the offensive glass. You need a guy who can play without the ball and stretch the defense. Can't afford to put that on the bench for large stretches.

On paper, without Tyson, I don't think this is all that good of a 3PT shooting team. They certainly don't project to shoot enough 3s IMO.

The DJ Wagner/Reed Sheppard comp is a bit different in my opinion. Both were plus athletes who can create for theirself or others. Just curious, do you see Tyson as being either a solid to plus defender similar to Cormac's role last year, or having the ability to create similar to Sheppard/Ian on top of his 3 ball talent? If so I agree big minutes, has to be in, as knock down shooter is a huge need for this roster, if not, and he is just the keep them honest dead eye threat skill alone, then I think he plays that role in spurts.

It was coaching malpractice. It isn't a great comp because there's really nothing that DJ Wagner did better than Reed Sheppard other than his athleticism. But the point remains the same. If you have a 45% 3PT shooter, he needs to be on the floor. It isn't comparable to Cormac because Tyson is a far better shooter on paper.

And honestly, this team's upside is pretty linked to if Tyson is that elite shooter that he was at Belmont. If he drops off to like 37-38%, even though that's still high quality, it isn't quite the same. Then you'll need to bank on Cadeau and Jackson being non-zero shooters. But I think that limits this team's upside if Tyson is a merely good shooter.

Also (and I know this isn't the point of this thread) RJ was a 41% 3PT shooter last year if you eliminate the Alabama game. That's a significant increase from his career. So it wouldn't surprise me if he were closer to 36-37% this season. Maybe he shoots it at 45% and continues a pretty substantial improvement. But I'm just saying a 36% 3PT shooting season is in play for him IMO.

 

[DSouthr]

The DJ Wagner/Reed Sheppard comp is a bit different in my opinion. Both were plus athletes who can create for theirself or others. Just curious, do you see Tyson as being either a solid to plus defender similar to Cormac's role last year, or having the ability to create similar to Sheppard/Ian on top of his 3 ball talent? If so I agree big minutes, has to be in, as knock down shooter is a huge need for this roster, if not, and he is just the keep them honest dead eye threat skill alone, then I think he plays that role in spurts.

Ilike the size/length advantage that Tyson gives us with that outstanding jump shooting, I think it will be harder for most wings to hinder Tyson jump shooting so he can shoot over most close outs and that trigger is extra quick, you can't help off of him. It would allows us to for example, give RJ a rest and put Seth at the 2 and Jack can create from the 3, 1 shot creator sits and another takes his place, 2 together can step on the others game, ala RJ and Caleb. I LOVE for example our 3 spot, say we start Tyson, then we bring in a totally different type of player in Ian, then we bring in yet another totally different type of player in Drake, or you bring them in as combinations. Defenses gear to stopping one attack and you bring in totally different styles of guys that have to be figured out, that is hard for a defense to keep up with, bama did some of that against us in that final game.

To answer your question with my opinion, no, I don't expect Tyson to give us the defensive presence Ryan gave us but I do think he will give us more consistent jump shooting than Ryan did and I think more than even Ingram did (Ingram got a hot start but his scoring numbers came down the last half of the season). IT was nice to see Ian jump shoot well in these 2 camp scrimmage games but I suspect that jumper may not be as consistent as it was in those 2 looks at the team. Now Ian's near sudden first step cross over, thing of beauty, absolute weapon! I was really impressed with Drake and especially his jump shooting, form is surprising nice and I think maybe Drake is not just the better defender to Ian but I get a sense his shot selection may as well be an advantage for him.

Not to put to much on a camp scrimmage game but the last game was our current roster vs really good former UNC stars and when I watched Drake bring the bal up court with Ian on the court as well I liked what I saw, don't know how that will fly come ACC slate but a PG and 2 guard at 6'6" each and extremely athletic vs our vertically challenged starting back court was a bit eye opening for me. They were not doing that against chumps!

 

[DaveChapelle]

The short answer is I don't know yet. But I don't think our frontcourt will be good enough to keep an elite shooter on the bench for a ton. That would be an insane luxury to have. It's the offseason, so everyone looks amazing and every team has 10 dudes that will come at you in waves. The reality is that probably isn't true.

First off, I think Jackson would take Seth's minutes as the first guard off the bench. Everyone here loves Seth and loves his loyalty. But over time, if Jackson is a 3-level scorer, he's going to play over a developing but limited offensive player in Seth. This isn't like last year when Seth's only bench competition was Wojcik. Seth has real competition now. And if he continues to be a 0 shooter, or someone unwilling to take open 3s, then it looks like there are frankly better options than him off the bench. As things stand right now, it wouldn't surprise me if Seth's role is limited. There are several 2-way potential players with Jackson and Powell. If that's the case, Seth can't be a one-way player that he mainly has been for 2 seasons. If he is, it's Seth's role that will get reduced.

Tyson's shooting makes him too valuable. If you have to guard him out to 30 feet, he makes everyone around him better. We don't have that presence aside from him. Everyone else offensively needs the ball in their hands to make the team better offensively. Cadeau is a 0 off the ball. RJ has some credibility off the ball, he's a ball-in-his-hands player. Jackson looks like a ball-dominant guard to me too. And I don't think Trimble is really a threat without the ball but he can provide some spark on the offensive glass. You need a guy who can play without the ball and stretch the defense. Can't afford to put that on the bench for large stretches.

On paper, without Tyson, I don't think this is all that good of a 3PT shooting team. They certainly don't project to shoot enough 3s IMO.


It was coaching malpractice. It isn't a great comp because there's really nothing that DJ Wagner did better than Reed Sheppard other than his athleticism. But the point remains the same. If you have a 45% 3PT shooter, he needs to be on the floor. It isn't comparable to Cormac because Tyson is a far better shooter on paper.

And honestly, this team's upside is pretty linked to if Tyson is that elite shooter that he was at Belmont. If he drops off to like 37-38%, even though that's still high quality, it isn't quite the same. Then you'll need to bank on Cadeau and Jackson being non-zero shooters. But I think that limits this team's upside if Tyson is a merely good shooter.

Also (and I know this isn't the point of this thread) RJ was a 41% 3PT shooter last year if you eliminate the Alabama game. That's a significant increase from his career. So it wouldn't surprise me if he were closer to 36-37% this season. Maybe he shoots it at 45% and continues a pretty substantial improvement. But I'm just saying a 36% 3PT shooting season is in play for him IMO.

I believe RJ's 3pt shooting % and 1st team All American season were a direct result of putting the ball into Cadeau's hands. The ball movement was better and RJ got a lot more clean looks thanks to Cadeau.

 

[DaveChapelle]

I also still think we'll ultimately arrive on a starting lineup with Jackson at the 3 and Tyson at the 4. What would be best is if Washington won the starting 5 spot. With Tyson and Washington both pulling the opposing bigs out of the lane, nobody will be able to stop our guards from getting to the rim.

 

[DaveChapelle]

 

[NathanFielder]

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This looked much more fluid and natural than last year when he looked like a golfer who stands over a putt for 45 seconds. I'm staying away from all off-season hype and waiting for the games to see what's real and not. But that was an encouraging, instinctual-looking jump shot. Still think his lower body will get him in trouble with his shot. But looks more natural and confident, at least during the summer.

 

[dtodd4475]

The short answer is I don't know yet. But I don't think our frontcourt will be good enough to keep an elite shooter on the bench for a ton. That would be an insane luxury to have. It's the offseason, so everyone looks amazing and every team has 10 dudes that will come at you in waves. The reality is that probably isn't true.

First off, I think Jackson would take Seth's minutes as the first guard off the bench. Everyone here loves Seth and loves his loyalty. But over time, if Jackson is a 3-level scorer, he's going to play over a developing but limited offensive player in Seth. This isn't like last year when Seth's only bench competition was Wojcik. Seth has real competition now. And if he continues to be a 0 shooter, or someone unwilling to take open 3s, then it looks like there are frankly better options than him off the bench. As things stand right now, it wouldn't surprise me if Seth's role is limited. There are several 2-way potential players with Jackson and Powell. If that's the case, Seth can't be a one-way player that he mainly has been for 2 seasons. If he is, it's Seth's role that will get reduced.

Tyson's shooting makes him too valuable. If you have to guard him out to 30 feet, he makes everyone around him better. We don't have that presence aside from him. Everyone else offensively needs the ball in their hands to make the team better offensively. Cadeau is a 0 off the ball. RJ has some credibility off the ball, he's a ball-in-his-hands player. Jackson looks like a ball-dominant guard to me too. And I don't think Trimble is really a threat without the ball but he can provide some spark on the offensive glass. You need a guy who can play without the ball and stretch the defense. Can't afford to put that on the bench for large stretches.

On paper, without Tyson, I don't think this is all that good of a 3PT shooting team. They certainly don't project to shoot enough 3s IMO.


It was coaching malpractice. It isn't a great comp because there's really nothing that DJ Wagner did better than Reed Sheppard other than his athleticism. But the point remains the same. If you have a 45% 3PT shooter, he needs to be on the floor. It isn't comparable to Cormac because Tyson is a far better shooter on paper.

And honestly, this team's upside is pretty linked to if Tyson is that elite shooter that he was at Belmont. If he drops off to like 37-38%, even though that's still high quality, it isn't quite the same. Then you'll need to bank on Cadeau and Jackson being non-zero shooters. But I think that limits this team's upside if Tyson is a merely good shooter.

Also (and I know this isn't the point of this thread) RJ was a 41% 3PT shooter last year if you eliminate the Alabama game. That's a significant increase from his career. So it wouldn't surprise me if he were closer to 36-37% this season. Maybe he shoots it at 45% and continues a pretty substantial improvement. But I'm just saying a 36% 3PT shooting season is in play for him IMO.

Shooting is indeed a hugh question mark. I'm more confident in RJ maintaining his 3 %. Not sure about last year, but he and Caleb were both much better 3 shooters when in catch and shoot the previous year. I could see an increase from 40% if he is off ball catch and shoot more. He can create his 3 looks, can float, can drive and create, but thrives in catch and shoot.

Tyson worries me getting looks, not saying he can't, but not positive he can. Zona totally locked him up, and he struggled against the one good Missouri Valley aggressive dee in Drake both times. If he shoots 40% with volume attempts I will be more surprised than RJ 40% with volume. If he is 40% plus with volume, then deficiencies in other areas can be absorbed.

If not he better bring what Cormac did other than standing and shooting. I also agree Sheppard did everything DJ , did abd was crazy athletic himself. Tyson does not seem like either, to me not a DJ/Reed comparison with Ian/Tyson for minutes in my opinion. Totally different dynamic. If Ian shoots 33% from 3 he is playing big minutes. He looks ready, recruits are watching if he is sat when ready. Tough place for Hubert with this roster. If Tyso can handle the 4 that would help greatly. Hubert will play RJ big, big minutes.

 

[heels05champs]

The only way Jackson starts over Tyson (assuming both are healthy and Tyson doesn't shoot 30% from 3) is if Jackson turns out to be a plus 3PT shooter. Like 35% plus. Tyson might be the best pure shooter in the country. I don't know of any team that has the luxury of bringing in the best shooter on their team, let alone of the best in the country, off the bench.

That would be borderline coaching malpractice. Similar to Calipari starting DJ Wagner over Reed Sheppard last year.

Jackson especially cannot start over Tyson if he's a developmental perimeter shooter. The likelihood then is you'd have a developmental shooter in Cadeau. Jackson, and a likely low-volume 3PT shooting front court. Maybe you can start Jackson and Tyson together. That's what I think can eventually happen.

It's also been a minute since UNC has had a true scoring spark off the bench. I don't remember the last time UNC had a guard who had scoring explosiveness off the bench. It may have been PJ Hairston and Reggie Bullock. And those 2 probably should've started over the guys they were behind in the rotation. Other than that, it was Danny Green, who again probably should've been starting ahead of Marcus Ginyard as a junior.

What percentage did Tyson shoot from three against P5 programs?

 

[TPFKAPFS]

The good news is that Tyson is not at Belmont anymore. He has never been such a low priority on peeps defensive plan! His % of catch and shoot 3s will increase significantly and everyone should expect his shooting % to either remain static or increase! BTW: I hope teams do spend extra peeps or skew their defense toward stopping Cade, because we "ain't" Belmont and that would just release multiple other dogs! I was sure Cap would come off the bench but watching him in person is eye opening. If he figures out the difference between a good and a great shot, this kid will be very hard to sit. I feel like both Drake and Cap will be + defenders and I expect them both to contribute to a deep and devastating 10 deep team!

 

[dtodd4475]

The good news is that Tyson is not at Belmont anymore. He has never been such a low priority on peeps defensive plan! His % of catch and shoot 3s will increase significantly and everyone should expect his shooting % to either remain static or increase! BTW: I hope teams do spend extra peeps or skew their defense toward stopping Cade, because we "ain't" Belmont and that would just release multiple other dogs! I was sure Cap would come off the bench but watching him in person is eye opening. If he figures out the difference between a good and a great shot, this kid will be very hard to sit. I feel like both Drake and Cap will be + defenders and I expect them both to contribute to a deep and devastating 10 deep team!

I hope so, but he doesn't have mid major guys checking him either, or to guard. If he is just a stay at home on him and don't let him catch and shoot, it won't play for big minutes. Belmont was a extreme ball movement offense as well. A lot to see with what translates, I sure as heck hope he is the ready to be that 45% volume 3 shooter some expect. That would be great.