Brandan Ingram?

[dukiejay]

Where was Ingram ever called, or promised to be a 2-guard by anyone? K's primary sell was playing time and being able to play on the perimeter in a face up capacity. That's exactly what he's been doing. And Duke and UNC, like we've all known forever, tend to run their offenses a bit different. More years than not K has employed the new stretch-4 dynamic. UNC not as much. Neither model is right or wrong....it's a matter of philosophy.

I would agree that Ingram wouldn't have the kind of numbers for UNC that he's going to have at Duke. Mainly because UNC is a deeper, veteran team....and as much as I hate to admit, better too. I think Duke can beat UNC because the disparity in top-end talent isn't great, but Duke doesn't have the room for error that UNC will have.

It's a weak(er) draft than last year, and it's projected to be a weaker draft than the two following. The 2014, 2016 and 2017 high school classes are stronger in top-level talent. Basically, 2015 is down compared to those classes....and in the era of kids trying to get to the NBA as soon as possible the following drafts will reflect that. I'd be surprised if Ingram isn't a top half of the lottery pick, and probably higher.

Lastly, by the time Ingram is able to get a second contract no team can pay him more than the team who owns his rights.

 

[gary-7]

If Hicks continues to improve and the Heels win the title I doubt he will be back.

As I understand it, that would be the only way he leaves, but things change.
Hicks has a legit chance to have an all-ACC Sr season as a starter and could actually improve his draft stock.

 

[gary-7]

Where was Ingram ever called, or promised to be a 2-guard by anyone? K's primary sell was playing time and being able to play on the perimeter in a face up capacity. That's exactly what he's been doing. And Duke and UNC, like we've all known forever, tend to run their offenses a bit different. More years than not K has employed the new stretch-4 dynamic. UNC not as much. Neither model is right or wrong....it's a matter of philosophy.

I would agree that Ingram wouldn't have the kind of numbers for UNC that he's going to have at Duke. Mainly because UNC is a deeper, veteran team....and as much as I hate to admit, better too. I think Duke can beat UNC because the disparity in top-end talent isn't great, but Duke doesn't have the room for error that UNC will have.

It's a weak(er) draft than last year, and it's projected to be a weaker draft than the two following. The 2014, 2016 and 2017 high school classes are stronger in top-level talent. Basically, 2015 is down compared to those classes....and in the era of kids trying to get to the NBA as soon as possible the following drafts will reflect that. I'd be surprised if Ingram isn't a top half of the lottery pick, and probably higher.

Lastly, by the time Ingram is able to get a second contract no team can pay him more than the team who owns his rights.

As I posted above, he will likely be a lottery pick, but c'mon man... characterizing the way he is being used a "stretch-4" is quite a... um... stretch. On offense he's just another wing in K's dumbed-down de facto four guard offense.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Me too Gary. And if we ever become a OADU like two teams I won't mention so as not to attract their fans, I'll stop watching college basketball.

it isnt like unc didnt nor doesnt recruit those same kids, they do, they just chose to go other places

 

[Archer2]

it isnt like unc didnt nor doesnt recruit those same kids, they do, they just chose to go other places

Roy will never predicate his team on OAD's Boogie, you know that and I know that. And Dean never would have either. Neither minded the occasional OAD but neither was going to build his teams around them. It goes against the old fashioned principle of what a student athlete is. If Knight LIte chooses to make a mockery of that concept and become a NBDL team, as he and Cal have, that's well and good. I certainly don't want my Coach to do so, even if it means having B+ talent versus A+ talent.

You like your Coach, I like mine. But this JCD mentality that dook fans demonstrate every time we have a thread that is in any way critical about Darth Kader is uncalled for. Dook fans mocked Cal for all his OAD's and now defend their Coach for soing the same thing. This thread must have really ruffled some feathers to draw dukiejay over. I could have gone the rest of my life without reading another word of his drivel.

 

[Archer2]

Where was Ingram ever called, or promised to be a 2-guard by anyone? K's primary sell was playing time and being able to play on the perimeter in a face up capacity. That's exactly what he's been doing. And Duke and UNC, like we've all known forever, tend to run their offenses a bit different. More years than not K has employed the new stretch-4 dynamic. UNC not as much. Neither model is right or wrong....it's a matter of philosophy.

I would agree that Ingram wouldn't have the kind of numbers for UNC that he's going to have at Duke. Mainly because UNC is a deeper, veteran team....and as much as I hate to admit, better too. I think Duke can beat UNC because the disparity in top-end talent isn't great, but Duke doesn't have the room for error that UNC will have.

It's a weak(er) draft than last year, and it's projected to be a weaker draft than the two following. The 2014, 2016 and 2017 high school classes are stronger in top-level talent. Basically, 2015 is down compared to those classes....and in the era of kids trying to get to the NBA as soon as possible the following drafts will reflect that. I'd be surprised if Ingram isn't a top half of the lottery pick, and probably higher.

Lastly, by the time Ingram is able to get a second contract no team can pay him more than the team who owns his rights.

Just visited your site for the first in a long time. Not surprisingly, UNC is the topic of the first four threads. And the one re: UNC Cheats has more posts than all the rest put together. Your obsession with UNC is unhealthy to say the least. There is also a very twisted thread mocking Roy that you appear to love. So go back to your cesspool of a board and spare us the bull shite. If we care to read that tripe, we'll visit your board.

 

[imajericho]

Anyone saying they wouldn't watch UNC if they got the recruits you all drool about snagging every year is delusional or not a good fan of the program.

While I HATE the rule, I am not going to stop watching UNC because they are grabbing the best recruits and I find it hard to believe any of you would either.

If Barnes had gone pro after his freshman year, it would have been understandable. Same with MacAdoo. Honestly, staying can only hurt your stock ultimately unless you are still legitly improving from a subpar stock.

You guys have threads stating how our lacj of one and dones lately have hurt us in recruiting and perception, yet say you won't watch UNC if they snagged them. I think I can speak for everyone when I say, we woll take the elite recruits and be okay without you watching UNC.

Instead of threatening to not watch UNC, you should just be hoping they change the rules so that the one and done era is gone.

Let em go out of hs or make them return for 3 years like baseball, imo. If they are drafted out of HS they can still choose college or the nba. If they choose NBA instead of college, and don't make a team, they can go to the D league.

That is my thoughts.

 

[Archer2]

And you're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine. I don't like what college sports is evolving into. So I'll decide if and when I no longer watch. Fair enough? BTW, I don't drool over any recruits. The college decisions of 18 year olds have very little impact on my life.

I've àlways loved sports but I hate what they've become.

 

[toophly1124]

Man I just went over there and read some after what you said Arch ..what a sad bunch!! I swear to God it's like a bunch of middle school girls reading what we say and going back on their site to tell all the others ..I've never in my life ..lost for words how sad their lives must be when they have to hang their hat on what we say here and then go back and "see what he said!" Omg I feel for them

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Have you looked in the stands at puke games? It has always been a collection of those who enjoy the experience of being together (mostly because it's the only place anyone would hang with them), but have no idea what bball is! (mostly because their national sport is cricket).

Why anyone listens to pukiejay or booger I don't understand, they are the most two-faced fans on these boards!

1.Ingram will be a lottery pick for sure AND he doesn't play a lick of D.
2. ratty is playing him where Ingram wants to play and not where it wold be best for him to play.
3. I will NEVER stop watching UNC bball!
4. I love Roy's combo of elite types and glue types; it is a long view system that fits with the Family Way!
5. Recruiting is cyclical and we are trending back to the top!

 

[TRU CANE]

Justice Winslow and Tyus Jones were not considered one and done prior to coming to Duke. I don't even believe they were remotely on the radar for such a move. I doubt K recruited those two with the belief he would only have them for one year. Those kids simply stepped up, worked hard and produced at a level to where most in their situation would have done the same thing. I mean lets just be honest guys like Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Grant Hill, Jayson Williams and Elton Brand are one year guys in today's game. Make no mistake if Carolina could have gotten Harry Giles and Dennis Smith to come then they would and I suspect once everything with the ncaa is over, Carolina will pull in that level of player so sir get ready to stop watch Carolina ball because it's coming. It's unavoidable

 

[TarHeelMark]

So glad I NEVER watch dook games (other than versus the Heels), and don't visit their site either. Life is so much better without that BS!

 

[Archer2]

Justice Winslow and Tyus Jones were not considered one and done prior to coming to Duke. I don't even believe they were remotely on the radar for such a move. I doubt K recruited those two with the belief he would only have them for one year. Those kids simply stepped up, worked hard and produced at a level to where most in their situation would have done the same thing. I mean lets just be honest guys like Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Grant Hill, Jayson Williams and Elton Brand are one year guys in today's game. Make no mistake if Carolina could have gotten Harry Giles and Dennis Smith to come then they would and I suspect once everything with the ncaa is over, Carolina will pull in that level of player so sir get ready to stop watch Carolina ball because it's coming. It's unavoidable

As a dook fan, your response is predictable. dook fans mocked Cal for adopting the OAD strategy, yet love it now that Knight LIte has followed suit. It's the definition of hypocrisy. And it isn't inevitable that UNC will become a OADU like UK/dook. It is a choice to completely abandon any pretext of the student athlete, one I don't see Coach ever making.

 

[DSouthr]

Where was Ingram ever called, or promised to be a 2-guard by anyone? K's primary sell was playing time and being able to play on the perimeter in a face up capacity. That's exactly what he's been doing. And Duke and UNC, like we've all known forever, tend to run their offenses a bit different. More years than not K has employed the new stretch-4 dynamic. UNC not as much. Neither model is right or wrong....it's a matter of philosophy.

I would agree that Ingram wouldn't have the kind of numbers for UNC that he's going to have at Duke. Mainly because UNC is a deeper, veteran team....and as much as I hate to admit, better too. I think Duke can beat UNC because the disparity in top-end talent isn't great, but Duke doesn't have the room for error that UNC will have.

It's a weak(er) draft than last year, and it's projected to be a weaker draft than the two following. The 2014, 2016 and 2017 high school classes are stronger in top-level talent. Basically, 2015 is down compared to those classes....and in the era of kids trying to get to the NBA as soon as possible the following drafts will reflect that. I'd be surprised if Ingram isn't a top half of the lottery pick, and probably higher.

Lastly, by the time Ingram is able to get a second contract no team can pay him more than the team who owns his rights.

You had dukies out there claiming the kid could play the point in a pinch, don't get your memory all selective now that you, we, and anyone else with eyes can see he isn't. Yeah, K sold PT, he sold OUT FRONT PT, not in the paint PT.

The NEW stretch 4 dynamic, is that what we call it now days? This is up there with the phrase dribble drive, like no one ever drove to the basket using the dribble before Kal came up with that tag line and now it seems no one ever heard of a 4 jump shooting the ball until K began having 4s jump shoot? pretty much the major way those so called stretch 4s get a shot in Ks offense is to step outside and shoot because you will not often find Ks team feeding the ball in to the post. Big men most often for K are relegated to setting screens and rebounding with the occasional stick back. And yeah, I know, Ochafor was fed a lot, does it take a talent of that level before K makes his guys feed the post?

You really have to love these dukies new found way of looking at the draft, they have bought in 100% to the Kalipari method, if you didn't know better you would think that duke fans are all closet kentucky/kalipari fans because they not only hang on his every word but they adopt his methods and then try to convince everyone K invented it (ya ever notice how similar their jersey colors are)? LOL

Yet from dukiejay we see, the next draft is weak and they see it as weak because this class of freshmen is not to the level of the last couple classes or as strong as the 2017 freshman class is projected to be. Yeah, lets totally underestimate and write off upper classmen as being able to play in college or the NBA. Yeah, not like guys can play in the NBA unless they skip out after their freshman seasons, ya ever heard of Draymon Green, I didn't know he was a freshman when he played his last season for Izzo?

I will say it again, love the potential that Ingram has but at this point right now projecting him as NBA lotto would take a DUMB move by a NBA GM to have happen, not that I doubt it may because the NBA GMs do dumb things like this way to often now days. Ingram is NOT a can't miss prospect, at least not right now, he darn sure is not the Kevin Durant he was hyped to be...

 

[timo0402]

As a dook fan, your response is predictable. dook fans mocked Cal for adopting the OAD strategy, yet love it now that Knight LIte has followed suit. It's the definition of hypocrisy. And it isn't inevitable that UNC will become a OADU like UK/dook. It is a choice to completely abandon any pretext of the student athlete, one I don't see Coach ever making.

You guys recruited the players below in the upcoming class correct?
Tatum- yes
Giles- yes
Dennis smith- yes
Bam- yes
Alkins- yes


Let's say you had landed them all, then what would you say?

 

[DSouthr]

Justice Winslow and Tyus Jones were not considered one and done prior to coming to Duke. I don't even believe they were remotely on the radar for such a move. I doubt K recruited those two with the belief he would only have them for one year. Those kids simply stepped up, worked hard and produced at a level to where most in their situation would have done the same thing. I mean lets just be honest guys like Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Grant Hill, Jayson Williams and Elton Brand are one year guys in today's game. Make no mistake if Carolina could have gotten Harry Giles and Dennis Smith to come then they would and I suspect once everything with the ncaa is over, Carolina will pull in that level of player so sir get ready to stop watch Carolina ball because it's coming. It's unavoidable

Wait wait wait, wait now, man you guys love to have it both ways don't ya? Now you are trying to tell us that 2 top 20 players, each arguments made for their being the top prospects at their positions, and yet now you want to tell us they were neither considered to be one & done players before getting to duke? Sorry but I am calling bull, come here bull, a dukie is trying to imitate ya! The only real questionable one was Jones because he was undersized and how is his NBA career going lately? You are trying to sell us that K was exclusively responsible for developing Jones and Winslow in to NBA lotto selects and forgetting that they were very highly rated players before ever coming to duke.

Of course Roy would have loved to have gotten commits from both Giles and Smith, why do you even feel the need to point that out? It is not now nor has it ever been that Roy did not like one & done players, Roy has recruited a ton of them, doubt Roy would recruit a kid he didn't want to play for him. So allow me to move you up in rank, from Captain to General obvious..

But what Roy does not do is cater his line up to a one & done kid when he has a very talented upper classman that is more comfortable and more productive in his system. Roy does not play a freshman, does not start a freshman just to impress high school kids that are touted as future one & doners. Roy plays his freshmen, he is playing a WALK ON fresham for solid PT right now, K playing any walk on freshmen? This is the only season in a long while that Roy is not starting a freshman, all this nonsense that Roy does not like or play freshmen is made up BULL CHIPS ! Of course Roy will bring talented freshmen to UNC, UNC will always have talent.

 

[DSouthr]

You guys recruited the players below in the upcoming class correct?
Tatum- yes
Giles- yes
Dennis smith- yes
Bam- yes
Alkins- yes


Let's say you had landed them all, then what would you say?

Lets say you mom was your sister, then what would YOU say? We didn't get that whole list did we, did any team in the nation get all those players? That your retort to discussion, offer a totally silly what if? There was ZERO chance that we would have got all of those fellas, clearly that zero chance also applied to EVERY school in the country because no one got more than 2 of those fellas, isn't that true?

 

[gary-7]

Have you looked in the stands at puke games? It has always been a collection of those who enjoy the experience of being together (mostly because it's the only place anyone would hang with them), but have no idea what bball is! (mostly because their national sport is cricket).

Why anyone listens to pukiejay or booger I don't understand, they are the most two-faced fans on these boards!

1.Ingram will be a lottery pick for sure AND he doesn't play a lick of D.
2. ratty is playing him where Ingram wants to play and not where it wold be best for him to play.
3. I will NEVER stop watching UNC bball!
4. I love Roy's combo of elite types and glue types; it is a long view system that fits with the Family Way!
5. Recruiting is cyclical and we are trending back to the top!

Bravo.
And BTW: The only thing that would turn me off from Carolina basketball would be if we hired someone to succeed Roy from outside the family. Then it would cease to Carolina basketball and become just a bunch of guys running around in Carolina uniforms.

 

[timo0402]

Lets say you mom was your sister, then what would YOU say? We didn't get that whole list did we, did any team in the nation get all those players? That your retort to discussion, offer a totally silly what if? There was ZERO chance that we would have got all of those fellas, clearly that zero chance also applied to EVERY school in the country because no one got more than 2 of those fellas, isn't that true?

1- my response was towards Archers ridiculous claim that he would stop watching your games if Roy adopted the recruiting of OAD.
2. That was only a list of the known top ten players that you guys were recruiting to me. You ask if anyone got more than two? The answer is yes. bc in your post above you mentioned that any top 20 ish recruit could be considered a OAD in some sense- that would mean that UK, Duke, and MSU got more than two in just that class alone in the top 20. Both UK & Duke has 3 in the top 10. MSU has 2 top 20 possibly 3 if they get Josh Jackson who is down to them and zona.
3. Your comment about Roy not catering his lineup to freshman has nothing to do with anything other than he plays a single system rather than adjusting his system to his personnel. If you're telling me that he wouldn't have started and featured jahill or Karl towns just because they were freshman than that makes no sense.

 

[imajericho]

Tyus Jones was looked at for one and done. I assume winslow was too.

 

[TRU CANE]

Let's be clear, I am definitely a person that criticized Calipari for his OAD approach. For one I didn't think it could work and also it just seemed wrong but for ME that had more to do with it being Calipari doing it first since his reputation was less than stellar. I was wrong. I was wrong. I was wrong. And yes, seeing K do it and do it successfully (freshman scored majority of points in NCAA tourney) I changed my mind. Yes seeing K do it I did change my mind to thinking it was ok. Not just for K but for any coach. Does that make me a hypocrite? I imagine so but it is what it is and I own it.

No Tyus jones and justice Winslow were not seen as OAD guys. Does that mean they weren't highly recruited top players? Of course not that's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying we KNEW Irving, Parker and Okafor were going to be at Duke for only one year. No Tyus was not looked at like a Kyrie and Justice not like a Parker. I didn't say K developed them to NBA players I clearly said Tyus and Justice stepped up worked hard and had the type of years that not many expected. Who could possibly expect them to have that type of year even as good as they were.

As far as being captain obvious my thoughts were toward the gentlemen who said he would stop watch Carolina ball if Roy does what K does. And again I am saying get ready because it is going to happen. There will come a time where Carolina puts a team on the floor that mirrors Kentucky and Dukes title teams of the last 6 years. Yes two to three top freshman will one day start for Carolina and maybe win a title and you guys will love it as I have.

 

[gary-7]

1- my response was towards Archers ridiculous claim that he would stop watching your games if Roy adopted the recruiting of OAD.
2. That was only a list of the known top ten players that you guys were recruiting to me. You ask if anyone got more than two? The answer is yes. bc in your post above you mentioned that any top 20 ish recruit could be considered a OAD in some sense- that would mean that UK, Duke, and MSU got more than two in just that class alone in the top 20. Both UK & Duke has 3 in the top 10. MSU has 2 top 20 possibly 3 if they get Josh Jackson who is down to them and zona.
3. Your comment about Roy not catering his lineup to freshman has nothing to do with anything other than he plays a single system rather than adjusting his system to his personnel. If you're telling me that he wouldn't have started and featured jahill or Karl towns just because they were freshman than that makes no sense.

Look, lets' get a few things straight:
1. The fact that Roy recruits elite OAD players does NOT mean he would take them all. Unlike Cal, he does not over-recruit. If he gets a OAD he thinks can help for a year, then yeah... but he will NEVER build his program around that, nor should he. Thus your argument fails miserably.
2. Roy will only start a freshmen --- ANY freshman --- if he feels he is ready and fits at that point. Marvin Williams, a sure fire lottery pick, came off the bench because that's where he fit best on that experienced loaded team.
3. Roy's "system" is the best basketball system ever invented by the best coach who ever coached anything, Dean Smith. It is not some dumbed-down romper-room glorified AAU stuff like Cal plays. Roy's system can adjust to personnel but he's not gonna build it around them.
4. WTF are you even doing here? If you feel the need to defend your crooked coach, stay at home. We don't GAS.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Roy will never predicate his team on OAD's Boogie, you know that and I know that. And Dean never would have either. Neither minded the occasional OAD but neither was going to build his teams around them. It goes against the old fashioned principle of what a student athlete is. If Knight LIte chooses to make a mockery of that concept and become a NBDL team, as he and Cal have, that's well and good. I certainly don't want my Coach to do so, even if it means having B+ talent versus A+ talent.

You like your Coach, I like mine. But this JCD mentality that dook fans demonstrate every time we have a thread that is in any way critical about Darth Kader is uncalled for. Dook fans mocked Cal for all his OAD's and now defend their Coach for soing the same thing. This thread must have really ruffled some feathers to draw dukiejay over. I could have gone the rest of my life without reading another word of his drivel.[/QUOT

How can you say dean wouldn't???..that was a different era/player.....Roy wouldn't????...he has, well tried. ..has offered all those same OAD...and if they accepted would be playing for UNC for their one year of college....K is still recruiting the same type kids as ferry/laettner/hill and etc....the only difference is today's kid wants the money and fame of the NBA sooner...yes duke had 3 OAD first round draft picks last season...1 was expected and 2 were not....this season duke has 1 expected OAD and then some 3-4 year guys....that's more so the new plan...1 OAD and some guys that will be around a while....if anything the OAD guys make you stay on the grind replacing them...next year's class...2 OAD (should K have changed his mind with either Giles or tatum because that would make 2 OAD talents that want to play for you)...and 2 3-4 year guys

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Wait wait wait, wait now, man you guys love to have it both ways don't ya? Now you are trying to tell us that 2 top 20 players, each arguments made for their being the top prospects at their positions, and yet now you want to tell us they were neither considered to be one & done players before getting to duke? Sorry but I am calling bull, come here bull, a dukie is trying to imitate ya! The only real questionable one was Jones because he was undersized and how is his NBA career going lately? You are trying to sell us that K was exclusively responsible for developing Jones and Winslow in to NBA lotto selects and forgetting that they were very highly rated players before ever coming to duke.

Of course Roy would have loved to have gotten commits from both Giles and Smith, why do you even feel the need to point that out? It is not now nor has it ever been that Roy did not like one & done players, Roy has recruited a ton of them, doubt Roy would recruit a kid he didn't want to play for him. So allow me to move you up in rank, from Captain to General obvious..

But what Roy does not do is cater his line up to a one & done kid when he has a very talented upper classman that is more comfortable and more productive in his system. Roy does not play a freshman, does not start a freshman just to impress high school kids that are touted as future one & doners. Roy plays his freshmen, he is playing a WALK ON fresham for solid PT right now, K playing any walk on freshmen? This is the only season in a long while that Roy is not starting a freshman, all this nonsense that Roy does not like or play freshmen is made up BULL CHIPS ! Of course Roy will bring talented freshmen to UNC, UNC will always have talent.

Not starting a frosh this year because the two you got can't usurp the talent in front of them...Pinson and Jackson were ranked ahead of Winslow right???...Pinson got hurt and didn't do much...Jackson had a good season and decided to stay....Winslow had a very good season and chose the NBA as he should have due to stellar play and a natty.... iirc his knock coming in was that he didn't have a jumpshot

 

[Archer2]

Let's be clear, I am definitely a person that criticized Calipari for his OAD approach. For one I didn't think it could work and also it just seemed wrong but for ME that had more to do with it being Calipari doing it first since his reputation was less than stellar. I was wrong. I was wrong. I was wrong. And yes, seeing K do it and do it successfully (freshman scored majority of points in NCAA tourney) I changed my mind. Yes seeing K do it I did change my mind to thinking it was ok. Not just for K but for any coach. Does that make me a hypocrite? I imagine so but it is what it is and I own it.

No Tyus jones and justice Winslow were not seen as OAD guys. Does that mean they weren't highly recruited top players? Of course not that's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying we KNEW Irving, Parker and Okafor were going to be at Duke for only one year. No Tyus was not looked at like a Kyrie and Justice not like a Parker. I didn't say K developed them to NBA players I clearly said Tyus and Justice stepped up worked hard and had the type of years that not many expected. Who could possibly expect them to have that type of year even as good as they were.

As far as being captain obvious my thoughts were toward the gentlemen who said he would stop watch Carolina ball if Roy does what K does. And again I am saying get ready because it is going to happen. There will come a time where Carolina puts a team on the floor that mirrors Kentucky and Dukes title teams of the last 6 years. Yes two to three top freshman will one day start for Carolina and maybe win a title and you guys will love it as I have.

Have to give you props for admitting that you were critical of Cal's OAD approach, that's more than most dook fans are willing to admit, most will vehemently deny it. I will never be glad to see that system at UNC, titles be damned. Knight LIte has sold his soul to the devil, all in the interest of winning, academics be damned. You like that approach, you can have it. You're no better than UK ànd your çoach is a slick talking used car salesman, just like Cal.

The only thing that matters to Knight LIte is winning.

 

[DSouthr]

1- my response was towards Archers ridiculous claim that he would stop watching your games if Roy adopted the recruiting of OAD.
2. That was only a list of the known top ten players that you guys were recruiting to me. You ask if anyone got more than two? The answer is yes. bc in your post above you mentioned that any top 20 ish recruit could be considered a OAD in some sense- that would mean that UK, Duke, and MSU got more than two in just that class alone in the top 20. Both UK & Duke has 3 in the top 10. MSU has 2 top 20 possibly 3 if they get Josh Jackson who is down to them and zona.
3. Your comment about Roy not catering his lineup to freshman has nothing to do with anything other than he plays a single system rather than adjusting his system to his personnel. If you're telling me that he wouldn't have started and featured jahill or Karl towns just because they were freshman than that makes no sense.

You lied in the above post didn't you? Yep, you sure did, you gave a list of players, that list of players I stated that no program got commits from more than 2 of them. The answer to did any program get more than 2 is NO, you know that and yet you stated other wise on purpose, we call that a LIE.

I am VERY good at selecting my own words dukie, I really do not require you to try to select my words for me. I never stated that Ochafor would not start for UNC, I stated that Roy would not force the starting of a freshman just to show that he caters to freshmen, learn to read dude. Now I did say in a thread a good while back that it was not certain that Ochafor would have started day 1 when we had an experienced Meeks and I added at the same time that IMO he would have started in to the season. But I guess your reading skills have not developed to the point of being able to read and comprehend that either.

And as for Archer saying he would stop watching, while I am not about to speak for another's feelings I can gurantee ya Archer does not need to check in with you on how he should feel, think, or react to anything. Many of us (college basketball fans) do not like the direction the college game is heading and its continued heading in the direction it is will cause it to lose fans.

The NBA has lost a lot of fans for the direction it has gone, it has elected to feature individual players over teams. College basketball fans as a whole love the college game because they love a specific team, the individuals come & go, the teams do not. To the college basketball fan the team is much more important than any individual player. Players in the NBA no longer play for their city, the fans in their city, they play for the highest bidder, they come in on a mega bucks contract and disappear to some other teams as quickly as they come in. UNlike college, NBA players have the ability to stay for many years, in some rare cases now days they do, like we see with Tim Duncan. College players can only stay 4 or 5 yrs at most yet now days it is the norm for a highly talented freshman to come in and play for 1 single season and then he is gone. What is lost is the loyality, fans have that loyality but these one & done players simply do not have that same loyality that was a given in the past. That is a HUGE loss for the college game and many, like Archer & myself do not like this new direction. Clearly dukies seem to embrace it, you get the one & doners, they skip out of town after that one season and who cares about loyality if they win enough for you in that one season.

Kid wants to leave after a single season, it is his call, his life, do what you want to do but as a fan I amnot going to consider a one & done player in the same way I consider and love a kid that stayed with us 3-5yrs and played well. I will never be able to see Brandan Wright or Marvin Williams in the same light as I see Hansbourgh or Jordan or a VERY long list of former players. Maybe dukies have found a way to consider Ochafor in a similar or even greater light than a player like Grant Hill or Bobby Hurley but I don't want that ability.

 

[DSouthr]

Not starting a frosh this year because the two you got can't usurp the talent in front of them...Pinson and Jackson were ranked ahead of Winslow right???...Pinson got hurt and didn't do much...Jackson had a good season and decided to stay....Winslow had a very good season and chose the NBA as he should have due to stellar play and a natty.... iirc his knock coming in was that he didn't have a jumpshot

Boogie, I like ya, you pretty reasonable fella for a dukie, but you hit on something that bugs me, others in this thread have as well. This bit about don't worry about anything but where a kid is ranked? Did it matter where any of your freshmen from last season were ranked in their class? I mean, for me it is not where a kid is ranked in his class, it is how a kid fits your program and the players & coaches he will be with. Marcus Paige was well ranked but in a weakish class, in a class like 2015 or one projected like the next one, it is very likely Paige would not have been considered top 20. But the kid can play, don't you agree? Right now Skal was considered by a wide margin to be the best player in this current freshman class prior to playing for Ky, is he anywhere near that? He isn't even the best freshman on his own team, the gap between he and Ben Simmons makes the grand canyon look like a little creek.

You bring up Pinson and Jackson and you point to the hype of rankings and yet do not even mention the eye test, the watch-em-play test? You tell me boogie, were the rankings right about Winslow, if he was rated behind Pinson or Jackson were the incoming ranking even worth any degree of consideration? I don't care where a kid is ranked, sure, the higher the ranking the more likely a kid I have not seen is maybe able to contribute early but I, you, these so called gurus, and anyone else will not know until that kid suits up for his college team and starts play. Many times you see a kid struggle to adjust to the college game that tore it up on the high school level, we see our own freshmen struggle all the time and come back as sophs totally better players, we call that off season development. We saw that in spades with Paige, look at Hicks right now, it has not really hit full swing for Jackson yet but you see it coming. Pinson was hurt all last off season, was not able to get in the work needed to really show that development but it will come. And watching those kids get better year to year is huge part of what I enjoy about the college game.

I am just not a huge fan of others telling me how good a player will be or even how good a team will be before they play their first game. You tell me, was there a single person talking about Valentine as the strong favorite for national Player of the year BEFORE the first game was played this season? What the heck do these gurus know that were pimping Skal as the best player in the country, they should be boiled in their own pudding !

 

[TRU CANE]

Jabari Parker, Kyrie Irving and Austin Rivers have all said they plan to get their Duke degrees while in the NBA ala Gerald Henderson who just got his after balancing his career and academics. When K is done his graduation rates will be amongst the best for both his four year players and his OAD players. The KIND of kid Duke recruits hasn't changed for the most part. Again if Grant Hill (who values education) played in this era, he would be one and done but would probably get his degree at a later time. It wouldn't change who he is or what Duke represents as a program.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Boogie, I like ya, you pretty reasonable fella for a dukie, but you hit on something that bugs me, others in this thread have as well. This bit about don't worry about anything but where a kid is ranked? Did it matter where any of your freshmen from last season were ranked in their class? I mean, for me it is not where a kid is ranked in his class, it is how a kid fits your program and the players & coaches he will be with. Marcus Paige was well ranked but in a weakish class, in a class like 2015 or one projected like the next one, it is very likely Paige would not have been considered top 20. But the kid can play, don't you agree? Right now Skal was considered by a wide margin to be the best player in this current freshman class prior to playing for Ky, is he anywhere near that? He isn't even the best freshman on his own team, the gap between he and Ben Simmons makes the grand canyon look like a little creek.

You bring up Pinson and Jackson and you point to the hype of rankings and yet do not even mention the eye test, the watch-em-play test? You tell me boogie, were the rankings right about Winslow, if he was rated behind Pinson or Jackson were the incoming ranking even worth any degree of consideration? I don't care where a kid is ranked, sure, the higher the ranking the more likely a kid I have not seen is maybe able to contribute early but I, you, these so called gurus, and anyone else will not know until that kid suits up for his college team and starts play. Many times you see a kid struggle to adjust to the college game that tore it up on the high school level, we see our own freshmen struggle all the time and come back as sophs totally better players, we call that off season development. We saw that in spades with Paige, look at Hicks right now, it has not really hit full swing for Jackson yet but you see it coming. Pinson was hurt all last off season, was not able to get in the work needed to really show that development but it will come. And watching those kids get better year to year is huge part of what I enjoy about the college game.

I am just not a huge fan of others telling me how good a player will be or even how good a team will be before they play their first game. You tell me, was there a single person talking about Valentine as the strong favorite for national Player of the year BEFORE the first game was played this season? What the heck do these gurus know that were pimping Skal as the best player in the country, they should be boiled in their own pudding !

Agreed....my rankings point was in response to someone saying jones/Winslow were top 20 so it was expected for their being OAD...then so should Pinson and Jackson technically have been....that was all....Jones and Winslow had no real OAD expectations...Jones too small and Winslow no jumpshot...through hardwork they ascended to 1st round picks....and like I said earlier...uncle has tried and continues to recruit the OAD kids, just w/of success....duke is still recruiting the same top kids as in the past...but today's kids have different agendas and short term plans...overall dukes new module is pretty much one surefire OAD and some 3-4 year guys

 

[Archer2]

^^^^
"Uncle"?

 

[TarHeelMark]

^^^^
"Uncle"?

Yeah, WTH?

 

[mikeirbyusa]

And yet y'all keep making Duke and UK threads wondering why they come here!

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I think he's better suited for dook. Personally (and I'm very biased), I cannot imagine how a person is divided between the schools to attend, in terms of playing on an athletic scholarship. People who grow up Tar Heel fans and then go to dook were never truly Tar Heel fans in my opinion. I'm too stubborn for my own good in that department.

Amen.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

phone auto correct corrected unc to uncle

 

[Heelicious]

phone auto correct corrected unc to uncle

understandable.... my phone auto-corrects Duke to dou***bags..... which I know isn't nice, but what can I do? I have no control over autocorrect.

 

[Ozheelfan]

understandable.... my phone auto-corrects Duke to dou***bags..... which I know isn't nice, but what can I do? I have no control over autocorrect.

A late contender for post of the year!

 

[tarh33ls]

I think to say they ascended to the first round is incorrect. They were highly touted prospects, they were included in most mocks as 1st rounders prior to the season starting IIRC. Jones didn't have the best measurables and was always going to be better at the collegiate game than the pros. Winslow was ranked around the same as Jackson but has superior athleticism and a great NBA body/build. He might lack some height for the position but Jackson is a stick and NBA teams looks at that unless you can score like Durant.


Generally I have never liked the OAD rule no matter where the prospects go. Obviously I would take some top end talent but I think it isn't really what college athletics stands for, you really get to know a team, a player and their identity over the years and that feeling is now almost gone, unlike in football. College isn't for all kids, if they think they're ready then let them go. If they're committed to the college game, getting a good start on an education, learning some non-sports related skills and gaining knowledge along the way, college is it. Let's not fool ourselves, there is only so much knowledge a coach can impact in one season and 35 games or so. Talent is talent and the NBA sorts out the men fairly quickly.

 

[UNC71-00]

Man I just went over there and read some after what you said Arch ..what a sad bunch!! I swear to God it's like a bunch of middle school girls reading what we say and going back on their site to tell all the others ..I've never in my life ..lost for words how sad their lives must be when they have to hang their hat on what we say here and then go back and "see what he said!" Omg I feel for them

Same cast of characters leading the charge?

Whatever happened to ol Rosh?

 

[toophly1124]

Same cast of characters leading the charge?

Whatever happened to ol Rosh?

I believe he was a little too smart for the rest of them ...but I swear man it's absolutely pathetic if you look at that thread ...you'll have posters from there come and post here then run back to their board with a "look what I said!!!" Pathetic bunch man ..they're coming off a national championship and they have nothing better to do but talk about UNC ..

 

[UNC71-00]

I believe he was a little too smart for the rest of them ...but I swear man it's absolutely pathetic if you look at that thread ...you'll have posters from there come and post here then run back to their board with a "look what I said!!!" Pathetic bunch man ..they're coming off a national championship and they have nothing better to do but talk about UNC ..

That's because they are all obsessed with Carolina. As soon as K retires they will go back to being Moo fanboys.

Your typical dook fan is a different strain of Moo fan. Whereas your common Wolpfacker just hates Carolina, the dookie subspecies actually believes superiority is attainable. This subspecies is more likely to run away when laughed at and has a different sort of inferiority complex as the run of the mill yankee dukie alum holds the wolpfie dookie in contempt (whereas moo alums and fans are all good chums) as does most everyone else with half a brain. Thus they face scorn from several angles and can only find love and acceptance from a senile old man with a glass eye and no hair.

Kinda pitiful really.