Derryck Thornton will transfer from Duke

[DSouthr]

Lol come on Mike! Lots of things to hate on K about but this?

Duke had a need, Duke needed a point guard so K begged Thornton to reclassify back to his CORRECT grade in order to help fulfill that need. What in the lords name is wrong with that?

K only went after Thornton to get Ingram? Ok so why start the kid some games and why allow him to play almost 30 a game?

Why didn't K go after another top pg in this class? Frank Jackson ain't it.

Fact of the matter is that this fake uncle is too embarrassed to say what the lie is because it either doesn't exist or it's something that will make him and Thornton look bad something like "k said he would use me more in ball screens like Tyus jones"

With Whip Trip coming back Frank Jackson has to play some position, so which one of them will be the PG?

"K only went after Thornton to get Ingram? Ok so why start the kid some games and why allow him to play almost 30 a game?" K needed to be able to tell Ingram he had his PG that would get him the ball. Isn't it interesting how K and his staff made such a big production of getting Thorton's commit when they visited Ingram that last time? It didn't matter what was actually going to happen, mattered only that K could point to a PG because he didn't have one on roster to point Ingram to.

Fake uncle, you have proof that is not his uncle? I would think before you label himn fake that you have proof the guy is not the kid's uncle?

"Duke had a need, Duke needed a point guard so K begged Thornton to reclassify back to his CORRECT grade in order to help fulfill that need. What in the lords name is wrong with that?"

^ Well finally we have a dukie ready to admit that K begged the kid to give up his senior year in high school to fill a DUKE NEED. Reclassify back to his CORRECT grade? So he was in some way being artificially held back a grade? Kids do fail grades at times and find themselves held back but there grade they failed is no longer their correct grade, the grade they have to repeat becomes their correct grade. Sometimes a kid transfers to a new school and is deemed to be in a grade lower than he was at his prior school. Did either of these things happen, if they did then the grade he was in BEFORE reclassifying would have been his correct grade.

IN any event, the kid was a Jr and reclassified to a grade up so he could leave high school a year earlier and play for duke. That is what happened right, I did not distort that in any way did I? So the kid missed the fun of being a high school senior, missed his prom, left his HS friends, missed out on Micky D games, missed out on leading his HS team as a senior? All stuff that can only be considered fun stuff, especially for the schools star athlete...

And yet rather than allow the kid his senior year, rather than waiting 1yr to bring the kid in to duke, it fits K need more to have a guy he can show Ingram as his PG and forget about Thorton?

The fact that K lies is established, he was just caught on tape again in a lie so it is no stretch of the mind to believe K may not have been as candid with Thorton or his family as he should have been. Fake people lie, lies are a proven and established trait with K, A+B = L-lie

 

[Coach325]

I think the family truly does believe he was "lied to" but IMO that isn't the case. Of course, my opinion is biased bc I'm a Duke fan. I believe the uncle (or whatever he is) when he says that they were told that he would be used in a pick and roll offense. The problem is that was Coach K's plan and sometimes plans don't always go like we think they will.

I really like Thornton and hate he's leaving, but to be honest he was very mediocre this year. He played 26 MPG game so he can't say he wasn't given a chance. The Thorntons thought they were going to be given the reigns to offense and then weren't. Duke thought it was getting a PG that they could give the reigns to and he wasn't. Neither side got what they are expecting, so it's not surprising it ended this way. Sometimes you recruit players and tell them what you expect their role to be, but it doesn't always work like you planned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, part of Roy's recruiting pitch to John Henson was that he could play the 3. Then they tried it and it became apparent that he was PF all day long and not a wing. So Roy moved him back in the post. Did Henson pout and transfer? No he stuck it out and became an NBA player. Very similar situations with completely different outcomes. Did Roy lie to Henson? Nope.....just told him what how he planned on using him. Then when it didn't work, they adjusted. It happens all the time, but I fully expect rival fans to pounce on it. The rival wouldn't be what it is if we didn't right?

 

[Archer2]

The following is the Uncle's Bio. K may have crossed the wrong person. I hope this abuse by K spreads throughout the AAU ranks. K, the leader of men


Uncle's Bio

*Founder and Head of Development for VANGUARD ELITE SPORTS
*One of the Original Creative Marketing people behind the And1 Mixtape Tour
*20 years experience working with Top NBA, High School, Middle School and Elementary School Players
*Created commercials for NBA All-star games on 3 separate occasions
*Created the Basketball Choreography for ground-breaking Mountain Dew Commercial starring Hot Sauce
*Created Basketball Choreography for movie CROSSOVER
*Cast majority of basketball players in movie CROSSOVER
*Casting for the movie SEMI-PRO
*Consultant, Casting and Lead Choreographer for video games, NBA 2k, NBA STREET, STREET HOOPS, NBA JAMS, & NBA BALLERS

I have served as;
*Head Clinician for Pangos Basketball camp (Atlanta Area)
*Head Clinician, Evaluator and Reporter for All Metro Hoops (Atlanta Area and Nationally)
*Skills Trainer at John Lucas Midwest Invitational All American Camp

Does this guy's résumé seem like that of a nut case to you Tru Cane? Because it doesn't to me. Interested as to why you keep referring to him as the "fake uncle". Is he not Thornton's uncle, or do you think it's someone is posing as such in order to make the LOM look bad? If either is true, why hasn't Thornton refuted this guy's statements?

There's no doubt Thornton and Murphy were asked to forego their senior season and enroll at dook. Murphy was then asked to RS. Both were unhappy enough to transfer, two of several players transferring from dook in recent years. I see a pattern there.

The LOM wants Bolden badly but was a sholly short. Magically, Thornton announces his decision to bolt. Either the LOM had a pretty good idea someone was going to leave early(Vanilla Whip to the pros, Thornton or Jeter transferring?), or it was a convenient coincidence. I'm not much of a believer in coincidences.

My personal opinion is that K, like Cal, is making promises to recruits re: how/how much they will be used. And when the LOM doesn't deliver, they bolt.

Again, if you're happy with the direction in which the LOM has led your program, fine. But his goody two shoes facade is showing more cracks every day. The media has maintained his status as a demigod for decades now. But the idol has feet of clay.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

lol@dukespin

 

[TRU CANE]

With Whip Trip coming back Frank Jackson has to play some position, so which one of them will be the PG?

Frank Jackson will play a lot of pg and this is exactly the point. This is a major division 1 program. Is there any gauruntee Jackson comes in and plays well? Starts? I'm sorry is Frank Jackson a Kyrie Irving talent? Are we supposed to say "ok Thornton you're the starter and so we aren't going to bring anyone in to compete with you until you're a junior? Ok Thornton don't get hurt because if you do we will be in a tough spot. Folks are you kidding me? So By Duke bringing in Frank Jackson it means or it says to Thornton that he isn't going to play many minutes? Jackson hasn't played one minute of major college bball! Folks this is big boyeeee athletics. Lmao at K being a bad guy for bringing in another player who COULD play Thornton's position. This is what we are talking about here and it's absurd.

 

[TRU CANE]

Does this guy's résumé seem like that of a nut case to you Tru Cane? Because it doesn't to me. Interested as to why you keep referring to him as the "fake uncle". Is he not Thornton's uncle, or do you think it's someone is posing as such in order to make the LOM look bad? If either is true, why hasn't Thornton refuted this guy's statements?

There's no doubt Thornton and Murphy were asked to forego their senior season and enroll at dook. Murphy was then asked to RS. Both were unhappy enough to transfer, two of several players transferring from dook in recent years. I see a pattern there.

The LOM wants Bolden badly but was a sholly short. Magically, Thornton announces his decision to bolt. Either the LOM had a pretty good idea someone was going to leave early(Vanilla Whip to the pros, Thornton or Jeter transferring?), or it was a convenient coincidence. I'm not much of a believer in coincidences.

My personal opinion is that K, like Cal, is making promises to recruits re: how/how much they will be used. And when the LOM doesn't deliver, they bolt.

Again, if you're happy with the direction in which the LOM has led your program, fine. But his goody two shoes facade is showing more cracks every day. The media has maintained his status as a demigod for decades now. But the idol has feet of clay.

I heard on our board that it's a handler of Thornton's a close family friend forged from a bball relationship and going by that resume it doesn't seem far fetched. I'm only going off of what I heard but you guys make a good point in that unless I have proof I shouldn't refer to him as his fake uncle. So I retract that statement. Lol this is fun my the way Mike is right I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[HeelFan58]

not surprised at all with this transfer out of dook .. not going to be enough balls to go around this coming season !

you look good in a bikini.

 

[DSouthr]

Frank Jackson will play a lot of pg and this is exactly the point. This is a major division 1 program. Is there any gauruntee Jackson comes in and plays well? Starts? I'm sorry is Frank Jackson a Kyrie Irving talent? Are we supposed to say "ok Thornton you're the starter and so we aren't going to bring anyone in to compete with you until you're a junior? Ok Thornton don't get hurt because if you do we will be in a tough spot. Folks are you kidding me? So By Duke bringing in Frank Jackson it means or it says to Thornton that he isn't going to play many minutes? Jackson hasn't played one minute of major college bball! Folks this is big boyeeee athletics. Lmao at K being a bad guy for bringing in another player who COULD play Thornton's position. This is what we are talking about here and it's absurd.

Is that how it works, Thorton, don't worry, if Frank Jackson gets hurt you will get some PT? How about commitment to the kid, we saw the kid commit to K and give up his senior season but what about a K commitment to the kid? Marcus Paige did not have a great freshman season but just as Paige committed to Roy, Roy committed to Marcus, I would say that worked out well for all concerned. Thorton was a highly respected player for his class and duke fans loved him and his family. Yet now his family is fake, his PT given to a brand new freshman, and the kid has to leave now that is scholly is needed to sign another player?

UNC just played in the NCAAT title game with a team full of Marcus Thorton like players, guys that did not have amazing freshman seasons, guys that were developed thru coaching and PT in to very good college players. I guess Roy and K look at commitment in different ways, I am glad Roy looks at it as he does...

 

[DSouthr]

I heard on our board that it's a handler of Thornton's a close family friend forged from a bball relationship and going by that resume it doesn't seem far fetched. I'm only going off of what I heard but you guys make a good point in that unless I have proof I shouldn't refer to him as his fake uncle. So I retract that statement. Lol this is fun my the way Mike is right I wouldn't have it any other way.

A HANDLER of Thorton? WoW, I would think you fellas would be better off accepting the guy as his uncle rather than admitting that K makes deals with handlers? So how many other brian Clifton's is K putting deals together with or has he gone straight up the handler food chain all the way to William "world wide wes" Wesley by now? INquiring minds want to know, now ya giving us some real red meat to snack on!!!

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Apparently, you guys need a refresher on African American culture! We as a people believe in the inclusion of very close friends into our families. MY father had a friend that I have grown up calling uncle and his son, cousin. They are not related by blood, but they ARE family! MY son calls my best friend Uncle(HIS daughters call me uncle as well) as well and nobody can question his inclusion into my family, even though his white skin might make you want to question our relationship. If the Thorntons say he is their uncle then none of you holier than thou arse wipes have the right to say he isn't!

The difference between Roy and ratty is clear. Just like there is a difference between what happened with Thornton and Henson. One coach sat down with the family and player and explained how the change would help the player; one coach forced the kid out for the good of the program! Jackson's recruitment is not the one proving ratty is a POS; it is Bolden's. Every coach recruits depth at positions and replacements for peeps, BUT only a select few (Cal, K, etc) are willing to force peeps to transfer OR cut them in order to make room for a higher ranked recruit! Only a select few are willing to convince a kid to skip a year of HS and then, if they don't immediately become stars, throw them out like yesterday's trash! BTW: I only know of ONE coach that is quoted as saying a recruit was messing up his program by going pro! AND I know of ONE coach in the triangle with undisputed proof that he is a LIAR! Spin that!

While you JCDers support a rat's nest that feeds on its own- WE ARE A FAMILY!

 

[Bur-Heel]

Mods..ban tru cane!!

 

[Steat]

CBS radio was ripping Duke apart this morning. The guy who does the sports news just ripped K. He said that Thornton was forced out. He said K told Thornton that he would not start over Jackson and his playing time would be reduced considerable and it would be best for him to leave. Lets see how this plays out, but if Duke thinks this will die a slow death that they are kidding themselves.

 

[CrazyHeel]

Henson was a three, recruited as a three, but he just wouldn't stop growing until he was almost 7 foot tall. So that's not even a close comparison.

 

[HeelFan58]

This is the uncle/trainer's contention with K: He said K told Thornton he would be featured in pick and roll situations in the offense but the vast majority of these opportunities went to other players. He said he was in the office when K told him that Thornton he would be used in a ball screen offense. He says K knew he didn't have the type of team to follow through on that promise and Derryck was in on only 20 or so ball screen situations all year. The story is on 247.

 

[CrazyHeel]

Breaking news: K-Rat is a liar.

 

[montana_heel]

K did not lie. ....... He made an INCORRECT STATEMENT!

Get your facts straight.

 

[HeelFan58]

K did not lie. ....... He made an INCORRECT STATEMENT!

Get your facts straight.

maybe he just misremembers.

 

[TRU CANE]

Is that how it works, Thorton, don't worry, if Frank Jackson gets hurt you will get some PT? How about commitment to the kid, we saw the kid commit to K and give up his senior season but what about a K commitment to the kid? Marcus Paige did not have a great freshman season but just as Paige committed to Roy, Roy committed to Marcus, I would say that worked out well for all concerned. Thorton was a highly respected player for his class and duke fans loved him and his family. Yet now his family is fake, his PT given to a brand new freshman, and the kid has to leave now that is scholly is needed to sign another player?

UNC just played in the NCAAT title game with a team full of Marcus Thorton like players, guys that did not have amazing freshman seasons, guys that were developed thru coaching and PT in to very good college players. I guess Roy and K look at commitment in different ways, I am glad Roy looks at it as he does...

No this is big boyee basketball not the area youth league. The next big thing (Jackson) comes in and you COMPETE. That's how you get better. Not by taking the kid by the hand all the time and promising him that everything will be ok if he just tries hard. That's how I would run my program and if K was doing it in a way you described I would disagree with it. I can't believe dudes think it's an issue to bring other players in and give everyone a fair chance to compete.

Now "IF" K told Thornton he would NOT play a lot, if he PROMISED Jackson that he would start over Thornton? Then THAT would be a dirt bag move and it would be counter productive! You put the players on the floor that gives you the best chance to win! Period end of discussion.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Mods..ban tru cane!!

Nah

 

[Steat]

maybe he just misremembers.

AMAZING!

 

[DSouthr]

No this is big boyee basketball not the area youth league. The next big thing (Jackson) comes in and you COMPETE. That's how you get better. Not by taking the kid by the hand all the time and promising him that everything will be ok if he just tries hard. That's how I would run my program and if K was doing it in a way you described I would disagree with it. I can't believe dudes think it's an issue to bring other players in and give everyone a fair chance to compete.

Now "IF" K told Thornton he would NOT play a lot, if he PROMISED Jackson that he would start over Thornton? Then THAT would be a dirt bag move and it would be counter productive! You put the players on the floor that gives you the best chance to win! Period end of discussion.

Yep, this is big boy ball and in this big boy level of play UNC just took a team full of Thorton like guys and played in the national title game, actually so did Villinova. Between both teams not a single one & done player on the roster. Point is some coaches actually do not have to walk over the kids they have in order to bring in the next new big thing.

Now I am not saying you don't play freshmen, clearly Roy does, I am not saying you don't start freshmen, clearly Roy does that as well. But there is this little thing called commitment of player to program but as well program to player. I am sorry if that is a lost concept for duke fans, players, or coaches. Hicks, didn't have a great freshman season, neither did Brice, Marcus, Theo, Britt, matter of fact go thru our roster and show me the guy that had a great freshman season? Did Roy recruit over them? Uh, no he did not, Roy could have gone down the one & done road Kal staked out and now K has embraced but at UNC things are done differently, we actually believe in making a commitment to a kid and want him to improve over time.

Outside of walk ons, Roy played what, a 12 deep roster, even Luke and Kenny getting more than mop up time, actually getting PT when the games were in doubt. They improve by playing in the real thing, not practice (not saying practice is not helpful in developing a kid but PT is the critical part in a game that is not already decided). K on the other hand goes what, 7 deep, maybe every now & then 8? Jefferson goes down and all we hear is duke only has 5 or 6 players? Cry me a freakin river when your bench is full of big men that do not get a chance to play in a game unless you are already ahead by 40 and there is less than a minute on the clock? The reason UNC has such a deep bench is that Roy played them at critical times as freshmen and not only showed them their due respect, he showed his commitment to them.

And all you got is telling us this is big boyee ball? Well your big boy ball is on the verge of re-naming duke TRANSFER - U, if you are not the best of the best get the heck out cause we don't need you any more, we ain't got time to develop you, you need to already be developed or we don't need ya? I am really glad Roy does not see things that way...

 

[wilsinnc]

I would think true cane and other suke fans would on their board on the thread of favorite thr quotes. Bashing gary and the rest of us. Screw you dookies we give less than a damn of your opion and nothing you say here to defend your ciach or program will change or minds. Just as ours on your board would change anyone there.

 

[Steat]

I'm Coach K, the leader of men.


http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com...nton-leaving-duke-a-year-after-reclassifying/

"But with the arrival of national prep Player of the Year Frank Jackson and the return of fellow guards Grayson Allen, Matt Jones and Luke Kennard, Thornton apparently became expendable in what has become a crowded Blue Devils’ backcourt rotation next season.

His departure also leaves the team one man short of the NCAA’s scholarship limit, opening the door for the addition of center Bolden — the nation’s top unsigned recruit.

“We wish Derryck the best and appreciate his contributions to our team this season,” Krzyzewski said in a statement. “We support his decision and want only what is best for him in the future.”

Officially, Thornton is leaving Duke to attend a school closer to his hometown in Chatsworth, Calif.

But you have to wonder if he’d have felt the same way had Allen decided to leave for the NBA draft instead of returning for his junior season … or if signing Bolden wasn’t such an apparent high priority for Krzyzewski and his staff."


I'm Coach K, the leader of men.

 

[DeanFor President]

Lmao at the fake uncle. Funny how he's talking in code. If he's as real and 100% as he says he is then say exactly what the issue is. What did K lie about? Thornton has nothing to do with Bolden. Ha ha this is a joke.

You are correct about it being a joke, so keep laughing. The joke is K, and dook, and apparently you.

 

[Heelicious]

I think the family truly does believe he was "lied to" but IMO that isn't the case. Of course, my opinion is biased bc I'm a Duke fan. I believe the uncle (or whatever he is) when he says that they were told that he would be used in a pick and roll offense. The problem is that was Coach K's plan and sometimes plans don't always go like we think they will.

I really like Thornton and hate he's leaving, but to be honest he was very mediocre this year. He played 26 MPG game so he can't say he wasn't given a chance. The Thorntons thought they were going to be given the reigns to offense and then weren't. Duke thought it was getting a PG that they could give the reigns to and he wasn't. Neither side got what they are expecting, so it's not surprising it ended this way. Sometimes you recruit players and tell them what you expect their role to be, but it doesn't always work like you planned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, part of Roy's recruiting pitch to John Henson was that he could play the 3. Then they tried it and it became apparent that he was PF all day long and not a wing. So Roy moved him back in the post. Did Henson pout and transfer? No he stuck it out and became an NBA player. Very similar situations with completely different outcomes. Did Roy lie to Henson? Nope.....just told him what how he planned on using him. Then when it didn't work, they adjusted. It happens all the time, but I fully expect rival fans to pounce on it. The rival wouldn't be what it is if we didn't right?

First - it is "reins" not "reigns". ie UNC reigns over the ACC as reg season and tourney champs til next year.... I am waiting for the time Coach K reins in his lying to and abusing "student athletes

Second - the Thorntons (plural) ? how many Thorntons are on the team? I hope you're not saying that somehow Derryk's FAMILY had ongoing negotiations of how he should be used. The kid decides to commit to Dook. After that point, the family has to trust the "coaches and developers of the kid to put him in the best position for the team AND the kid. Win - win. I know that ain't how K rolls, though.

But most important - do you not see how your example of Henson vs. Thornton is 100% making the case about the difference in UNC Family / Program vs. Dook OAD U?

You are saying Roy recruits kids, sees holes in their game but also sees their potential, what they are capable of, if they COMMIT to working hard, knowing that the staff will work hard to develop the kid as well as possible to reach the kids full potential. It includes tough, frank discussions, and a reality check for the kids, but Roy is committed to help the kid optimize his situation IF the kid does his part. Examples: Henson, Brice, Marcus, Nate, even Joel James - who I vehemently didn't support getting playing time but Roy and his system was right and I was way wrong. Joel became a serviceable player by end of year, one who contributed well, and I even grew fairly comfortable with having on the floor in limited minutes. Just compare Joel James to Jeter or Obi - think about that for a minute - very telling.

On the other hand, the way you describe K's philosophy, sounds like: (somehow or other ) "I got you, Mr. 5 star to come on campus. I will literally roll out the balls. If you perform up to your hype, we can compete. If you don't live up to the hype, you're dead to me. Move on. Transfer. You got holes in your game? Things you need to develop? Sorry, development ain't us. Go somewhere else for that. If you aren't a star right away, I got no time for you and I couldn't care less what your situation becomes 2-3 years down the road. Did you think this was actually about DEVELOPING YOU as a young man? how trite and naïve."

Show me a guy who K has developed from a project into a decent player in the last ten, on the scale of all the guys we've mentioned that Roy has developed just on this roster. Name just one.

 

[GACMAN]

dook sucks as much as K sucks!

 

[NYCNole]

Interesting thread considering I watch a lot of Duke & UNC hoops. Ryan Kelly became a pretty solid player for Duke, believe he's still in NBA. Nolan Smith was awful for two years & lit it up last two seasons. Marshall Plumlee was terrible until this season. Both programs develop players IMO.

 

[TRU CANE]

Yep, this is big boy ball and in this big boy level of play UNC just took a team full of Thorton like guys and played in the national title game, actually so did Villinova. Between both teams not a single one & done player on the roster. Point is some coaches actually do not have to walk over the kids they have in order to bring in the next new big thing.

Now I am not saying you don't play freshmen, clearly Roy does, I am not saying you don't start freshmen, clearly Roy does that as well. But there is this little thing called commitment of player to program but as well program to player. I am sorry if that is a lost concept for duke fans, players, or coaches. Hicks, didn't have a great freshman season, neither did Brice, Marcus, Theo, Britt, matter of fact go thru our roster and show me the guy that had a great freshman season? Did Roy recruit over them? Uh, no he did not, Roy could have gone down the one & done road Kal staked out and now K has embraced but at UNC things are done differently, we actually believe in making a commitment to a kid and want him to improve over time.

Outside of walk ons, Roy played what, a 12 deep roster, even Luke and Kenny getting more than mop up time, actually getting PT when the games were in doubt. They improve by playing in the real thing, not practice (not saying practice is not helpful in developing a kid but PT is the critical part in a game that is not already decided). K on the other hand goes what, 7 deep, maybe every now & then 8? Jefferson goes down and all we hear is duke only has 5 or 6 players? Cry me a freakin river when your bench is full of big men that do not get a chance to play in a game unless you are already ahead by 40 and there is less than a minute on the clock? The reason UNC has such a deep bench is that Roy played them at critical times as freshmen and not only showed them their due respect, he showed his commitment to them.

And all you got is telling us this is big boyee ball? Well your big boy ball is on the verge of re-naming duke TRANSFER - U, if you are not the best of the best get the heck out cause we don't need you any more, we ain't got time to develop you, you need to already be developed or we don't need ya? I am really glad Roy does not see things that way...

Isn't your UNC team from this year similar to our 2010 team? Look how much better Marshall Plumlee progressed from frosh to senior? Quinn Cook, who, without him Duke doesn't win it all last year in spite of the great frosh play? What about Amile Jefferson who will be at Duke for five years? Matt Jones? Duke has PLENTY of guys returning each year. PLENTY. Hell sometimes I see y'all criticize K for guys coming back! Ryan Kelly? The list is plentiful

 

[DevilBlue]

First - it is "reins" not "reigns". ie UNC reigns over the ACC as reg season and tourney champs til next year.... I am waiting for the time Coach K reins in his lying to and abusing "student athletes

Second - the Thorntons (plural) ? how many Thorntons are on the team? I hope you're not saying that somehow Derryk's FAMILY had ongoing negotiations of how he should be used. The kid decides to commit to Dook. After that point, the family has to trust the "coaches and developers of the kid to put him in the best position for the team AND the kid. Win - win. I know that ain't how K rolls, though.

But most important - do you not see how your example of Henson vs. Thornton is 100% making the case about the difference in UNC Family / Program vs. Dook OAD U?

You are saying Roy recruits kids, sees holes in their game but also sees their potential, what they are capable of, if they COMMIT to working hard, knowing that the staff will work hard to develop the kid as well as possible to reach the kids full potential. It includes tough, frank discussions, and a reality check for the kids, but Roy is committed to help the kid optimize his situation IF the kid does his part. Examples: Henson, Brice, Marcus, Nate, even Joel James - who I vehemently didn't support getting playing time but Roy and his system was right and I was way wrong. Joel became a serviceable player by end of year, one who contributed well, and I even grew fairly comfortable with having on the floor in limited minutes. Just compare Joel James to Jeter or Obi - think about that for a minute - very telling.

On the other hand, the way you describe K's philosophy, sounds like: (somehow or other ) "I got you, Mr. 5 star to come on campus. I will literally roll out the balls. If you perform up to your hype, we can compete. If you don't live up to the hype, you're dead to me. Move on. Transfer. You got holes in your game? Things you need to develop? Sorry, development ain't us. Go somewhere else for that. If you aren't a star right away, I got no time for you and I couldn't care less what your situation becomes 2-3 years down the road. Did you think this was actually about DEVELOPING YOU as a young man? how trite and naïve."

Show me a guy who K has developed from a project into a decent player in the last ten, on the scale of all the guys we've mentioned that Roy has developed just on this roster. Name just one.

Are you saying development is in one year or more? I can list a number of guys who weren't top 50 and ended up with good playing time for Duke the same as UNC can. I can also list a lot of players at Duke that decided not to wait. If a kid has it in his mind that he's a one and done, then he goes to Duke, doesn't transition as quickly into the college game as he, Coaches, recruiting site analysts think he should have he has two choices. He can go somewhere else or stay and work hard. Look at Thortons stats...very similar or better than they following PGs at Duke...Wojo, Duhon, Nolan, Dockery... All those guys stayed, worked hard, and got a lot of playing time to showcase their abilities. Now take for example Thorton. NOBODY on this board knows what K did or didn't tell him or promise him. In my opinion, he got as much time as one should expect for a freshman. Did the gameplan and style change when Jefferson went down...yes. Was it different than what Thorton expected(no clue) but lets assume yes. Now Jackson is coming in next year, Allen is returning... So what? If Thorton isn't willing to compete for his time and wants to leave, best of luck. How is this situation different than Larry Drews when Marshall came? For that matter lets assume that Jackson is some out of this world PG who would start(no guarantee) but lets assume it. So he's just that good...in one year Duke loses Jackson(he's that good) Allen(set to graduate) Jones, Tatum(OAD) Giles(OAD) Jefferson. That would leave Thorton, Kennard, White, Bolden, Jeter, Javin, and Vrank and whoever we get in 17. Thorton would be primed for a dominant role on that team.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

What about Amile Jefferson who will be at Duke for five years?

You got us there. Jordan, Ford, Worthy, Jamison, Carter, Hansbrough, Paige, Johnson... none of them can compare to God's gift to basketball: Amile Jefferson.

 

[Heelicious]

Hell sometimes I see y'all criticize K for guys coming back!

TRU CANE - that fact isn't contradictory, or paradoxical.

We criticize K for not doing what is best for the student athletes long term. I'm not saying in all cases, but in some, he encourages kids to come back, when its in the kid's best interest to go. Jay Williams for sure, maybe Vanilla Whip & Trip this year (tho I don't think he SHOULD be an NBA first rounder)... and on the other hand, he quickly discards kids who he has no time or interest in developing. Is K saying Jeter and Thornton aren't worth Ks time to develop?

 

[Heelicious]

You got us there. Jordan, Ford, Worthy, Jamison, Carter, Hansbrough, Paige, Johnson... none of them can compare to God's gift to basketball: Amile Jefferson.

Shaquille O'neal = Amile Jefferson.
Shaq + Amile - Shamile O'Neal
"Sham" as a short version of the name

 

[DSouthr]

Isn't your UNC team from this year similar to our 2010 team? Look how much better Marshall Plumlee progressed from frosh to senior? Quinn Cook, who, without him Duke doesn't win it all last year in spite of the great frosh play? What about Amile Jefferson who will be at Duke for five years? Matt Jones? Duke has PLENTY of guys returning each year. PLENTY. Hell sometimes I see y'all criticize K for guys coming back! Ryan Kelly? The list is plentiful

First off, I see some folks fussing because you are posting here, just know I am not one of them, I actually enjoy your posting, we may not agree but you are a reasonable fella. Just wanted to get that out.

Well until K can figure out a way to sign the entire top 10 of future classes he has no choice but to bring back most of his players. Yeah, a Quinn Cook will be able to play as long as K didn't get lucky enough to get a commit from a top 10 2 guard. Funny how Plum ONLY in his senior season got PT, good thing for him that Jeter was a buster and Jefferson got hurt or he would not have even got that. Plum was at least a 4star coming in, he was by many considered to be the best of the Plums and yet only due to injury to another player did he ever get decent PT in his very last year. Yep, forget about those NBA dreams like your brothers enjoy, welcome to the Army life, maybe they can pay Plum a recruiting bonus if he can talk Jefferson in to joining up as well?

 

[TRU CANE]

South I just wanted to say thank you for the kind words. I do enjoy posting here and as much as I love K and Duke bball (which is a lot), I'm not a Heel digger (pun intended). I don't agree with everything just because it's K or Duke. If I think something is wrong I will be the first to say "yeah that was filth."

But on THIS matter? For "ME" I know that this level of college sports is pretty much a business. It's not really about going the extra mile for kids who have pretty much already been given every perk, incentive, and in some instances like Lance Thomas, gifts. Lmao (joking). I'm not a guy that PRETENDS that this level is anything other than than what I described. Coaches have to win or they get fired. Kids have to perform or somebody else is waiting to step in as it should be as that is the way it is in life. Does it mean a kid gets thrown away? No that's not what it means. It does mean they may lose playing time. It does mean they may have to work harder. It does mean that yes maybe the school that recruited them and they chose is no longer the best place for them.

K needed Thornton, Thornton was presented with an opportunity. Thornton accepted and went as far as to take extra classes to do it. Thornton played ok for a frosh, not great. But he played A LOT. Unless I have proof there is no way I'm going to believe that K PUSHED his ONLY PG off the team to make room for a Center when he has Amile, Jeter, Giles, Obi, vrankovick, Justin Robinson. If K was going to PUSH anybody out it would be amongst a group where bodies are expendable. You're telling me K pushed his only pg off the team because he has an unproven frosh coming in who is not considered a kyrie Irving or even a Tyus jones type talent? Bro that makes NO SENSE to me. It's not smart it's actually pretty stupid. If Jackson struggles or hell gets hurt then what? Is Bolden going to run pg? Allen? Matt jones? Jones was tried and that was a disaster. It makes no sense. K pushing out Thornton makes NO SENSE.

 

[DevilBlue]

Just interested in how long people on this board think a player who play before they aren't being developed. I think everyone agrees the college game is much faster more athletic than high school. Some people adjust quickly, others don't. So if a player has a lower than expect freshman year and walks its a development issue? I call bs. The same way Hicks, Meeks, Brice, Pinson...all got better would the same timeframe not apply to Thorton. On that same note to say Roy didn't recruit over this is misleading. 1. Thorton has yet to lose playing time to Jackson next year so its fans assuming it will happen. 2. Roy recruited a lot of players during that same time...Ingram, Jones, Winslow, Okafor and others who many thought we top talent and or one and done. Had Okafor come to UNC...are you saying he wouldn't have played over Hicks, Brice, Meeks or Joel? Has Ingram gone to UNC this year how would you see Jackson, or Britts, or Pinsons minutes having shaped out. To say a player comes in an maybe starts or even gets a lot of time is not always recruiting over.

 

[HeelFan58]

Just interested in how long people on this board think a player who play before they aren't being developed. I think everyone agrees the college game is much faster more athletic than high school. Some people adjust quickly, others don't. So if a player has a lower than expect freshman year and walks its a development issue? I call bs. The same way Hicks, Meeks, Brice, Pinson...all got better would the same timeframe not apply to Thorton. On that same note to say Roy didn't recruit over this is misleading. 1. Thorton has yet to lose playing time to Jackson next year so its fans assuming it will happen. 2. Roy recruited a lot of players during that same time...Ingram, Jones, Winslow, Okafor and others who many thought we top talent and or one and done. Had Okafor come to UNC...are you saying he wouldn't have played over Hicks, Brice, Meeks or Joel? Has Ingram gone to UNC this year how would you see Jackson, or Britts, or Pinsons minutes having shaped out. To say a player comes in an maybe starts or even gets a lot of time is not always recruiting over.

A lot of speculation. I don't think we were truly in it for any of the latter 3 and truth be known Ingram either.

 

[TRU CANE]

I do hope there is a way to save these threads. When the investigation thing clears and UNC can pull in a Derick Smith or Harry Giles or Ingram ALL from North Carolina, I want to see what some of the guys like Archer say at that time.

 

[DevilBlue]

A lot of speculation. I don't think we were truly in it for any of the latter 3 and truth be known Ingram either.

To me, a top school like UNC isn't offering guys unless 1. they think they have a shot. 2. they are willing to invest a good amount of time an energy. So if they give them a hard offer, to me that's recruiting(I guess to some its recruiting over if they accept)

 

[HeelFan58]

To me, a top school like UNC isn't offering guys unless 1. they think they have a shot. 2. they are willing to invest a good amount of time an energy. So if they give them a hard offer, to me that's recruiting(I guess to some its recruiting over if they accept)

Roy offered enough guys last year to make up a roster along with an NFL taxi squad. I don't know how much time he spent on any of the 4 except Ingram and he is in state.

 

[luv the heels 62]

Will be the same Ole Dook team next year. Ratface will play about 6 players, everyone else won't even bother to take their warm ups off. Then we will have to hear all the announcers claim all year how they only have 6 players, got so sick of hearing this shit this year, even though they had a hole bench of players sitting over there that never got off the bench. Why anyone would want to play for him is beyond me.