Fedora would be undefeated
- Thread starter WoadBlue
- Start date
Woad who would take at QB Elliott or Quise Williams
Neither has a snowball's chance in Hell of playing QB in the NFL. So I'd take Gardner Minshew over both. Fedora never would have stooped so low as to try to get him in Carolina Blue. And Fedora is a QB guru, the kind of genius who keeps the future NFL #2 draft pick on the pine for 3 years.
It would be interesting to see what Elliott would look like with fully healthy Switzer, Hollins, and Howard at WRs and Hood at RB and a first rate fully healthy OL, and 1st rate OC, like we had in 2015. It also would be interesting to see Williams playing this year and last, with all the injuries and suspensions and the terrible OC job we've had. Considering the hissy fits he tossed off the field and on the sidelines in 2013 and 2014, my guess is his sense of entitlement would have led to a sprung gasket by now.
That could have made this season really interesting. Instead, we get new ways to lose, to grasp defeat out of the jaws of victory, that are rather boring after the first couple.
Kind of like how we lost to 3-9 SoCar in 2015.
My god you are special. This Oline is more talented than 2015. This is a deeper RB corps. WR is a push. 2015 had more top end talent, but this class is deeper.
I don't understand why you feel the need to continue to bring up the draft when measuring how someone will perform in a college system. A coach should never make a decision on the roster based on what someone's future draft status might be. You play the best player for the system and the one who can put you in position to win. That guy was MW.
Perhaps this OL would have been a bit better than the 2015 OL if it had been healthy all year, as the 2015 OL was. If you think the OL play we have seen this year is remotely as good as what we had in 2015, I would not want you deciding how to protect the QB in the passing game and open holes for the running game/.
I will take fully healthy Hood and Logan over this fine trio, especially banged up of the year, any day. None of this trio is capable of rushing for 1400 yards while sharing RB carries, and watching the QB run too many times every game.
So WR is a push? You think 2 of these WRs will be in the NFL within 2 years?
2015 was an absolute fluke, the exact opposite of a perfect storm: everything went perfectly, including a weak schedule. Fedora still managed to lose to a 3 win SoCar team that would lose to 1AA Citadel.
Wait, let me guess: it was Nathan Elliott who caused that loss.
Dude, just lay it out there in the open. You don’t think we should have a black QB. It’s the only possible way you could continue to post such drivel. I bet you have confederate flag flying over your trailer.
There’s no way we win 10 games in 2015 with Elliott as the QB and it’s probably a safe bet that we win more than 5 games in the last two years with MW at QB. Quise was on a completely different level of talent than Nathan Elliott is.
Defense played pretty good earlier this year (other than ecu), but it didn't seem to help much.
So you blame that L on Fedora or MW that year...The reason I ask because Mitch lost to a 4-8 dook team who went 1-7 that year in the Coastal...
That sounds as if it is diamond solid truth. But is it? As you are still a college student and therefore may have a growing mind that can still learn to peek around corners to discern bigger pictures that not only add to whatever value lies in 'received wisdom' of the moment but even to reveal its weaknesses, at times downright falsehood, I'll take you through some steps.
Your final sentence is a declaration that the obvious to the eye higher level of athletic talent in QBs equals more wins, many more wins you suggest rather strongly, if the other factors remain the same. That is backyard football thinking. It's the reason we all played backyard football with the largest, hardest to tackle guy or the fastest, most elusive guy or the guy who could chunk the ball the farthest playing QB. Almost all plays in BYF are chaos, and in chaos, some type of superior raw athleticism will prevail a preponderance of the time.
The above, to help frame how even discussions of boys games can shed light on human nature and therefore the ways of major world events, is the reason that people who are barbarian in heart and mind (and the combination always means barbarian in morals) always, if they are allowed, act to cause chaos in society. It does not take higher education or even an IQ fairly close to average to know from deep inside that societal chaos will favor the most brutal, the ones who intend to get what they want no matter the cost to anything or anyone else.
Exhibit A: The almost immediate break down of Weimer Germany from Bolshevik and Anarchist gangs terrorizing businesses and their employees and customers, churches, public facilities, government offices, major routes of automobile traffic, speakers who disagreed with them, etc, led very quickly to the founding of the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany (Nazis) . And the Nazis used every savage technique that the Marxists and Anarchists used, and over time became better organized at the chaos of street barbarity. Because the short-sighted victorious allies had many leaders who thought it funny that Germany should be rocked violently by such utter savagery on its streets, nobody stepped in to help the hapless government regain order. And World War 2 became inevitable the second the stock markets crashed, which guaranteed that Germans would vote for Nazis in a desperate attempt to find some kind of order to save them from the chaos.
Long term, chaos does not win. And the longer you allow chaos to build, to run loose, the harder it is to overcome and to clean up after it is again forced into containment.
BYF is offensively about chaos. So you pick for your QB the guy who has the most observable athletic talent.
If your conclusion above were true, then Brandon Harris, who possessed at least as many easily observable athletic skills as Marquise Williams, who had all the basic talent that Williams possessed, would have been able to win more games as starting QB in 2017 than the 3 we won. But Harris sucked as a QB. He had all kinds of talent, but he sucked as a QB. If you gave him all he had at LSU, all that excellent talent on both sides of the ball, he could be the QB on a team that would win 8 or 9 or even 10 games. But those wins would not have occurred because Harris's level of talent made them possible; they would have occurred despite Harris's weaknesses as a QB because the rest of the factors were in place to win Big.
I doubt that UNC would have won 10 games in 2015 with Elliott as UNC QB. But it would have been possible if the lack of an athletic talent like Williams forced Fedora to allow Littrell to use Hood especially and also Logan properly.
But I am certain that Elliott on this year's Bama team could be the starting QB for a team that won at least 10 games. All those Bama players on both side of the ball, and the entire Saban structure of anti-chaos that reveals and exploits every hint of chaos in foes, would have guaranteed it. The wins would have lacked the sheer majesty and fearful margins of those engineered by Tua and his future Hall of Fame passing game skills, but they still would have been wins.
Yes, with the right cast and coaching, Nathan Elliott would be the starting QB on a 10 win team. Not because he is the second coming of Peyton Manning but because he is a sound team leader who can manage a well coached team very well. UNC is not a well coached team.
Is there any reason to think that if Brandon Harris, with all that super talent he brought in his person, could not win more games at QB over 2017 and 2018 than we have won, that Marquise Williams could have won more? Yes - because Williams was not brand new to the system.
That raises two points: One is that it makes my case that the matter is one all about the overall picture: alter the coaches and some players, and the exact QB will look better or worse depending on the changes made. Brandon Harris starting at Clemson in 2017 would have looked like he did at LSU: an average QB who wins almost all his games. Kelly Bryant starting at UNC in 2017 would have looked desperate much of the time, and he would not have led the team to bowl eligibility.
It being true that QBs winning and even looking good on stat lines depends on their cats of coaches and teammates as well as their opponents, it logically follows that a QB surrounded by great talent and coached by those who are among the best, is going to win much more and have many stats much better than a QB who has spotty talent around him and mediocre or poor coaching.
The second point is that when a QB is made the starter and keeps the job no matter what, eventually he can master that one system, seeming to be ideal for it when all the other pieces fall into place as he, granted unlimited experience, finally matures into the job.
The Marquise Williams that you are certain as QB for UNC in 2017 and 2018 would have won more than 5 games, is that the Williams of 2015 when everything went absolutely perfectly across the offense the entire season, or is that the Williams of 2013-2014, when UNC was a .500 team and Williams was up and down in his individual play?
How many more wins UNC would have had with Williams at QB in 2017 and 2018 would depend on whether it is Williams of 2013-14 or Williams of 2015. And If the latter, you must then consider how the easily frustrated Williams when things went bad in 2013-14 mighty have returned to, might have re-emerged and overwhelmed, the 2015 Williams if all that went bad in 2017 faced him. I think Williams with that mess in 2017 would have had at least a couple of melt downs on the field. I think Williams, seeing himself as the athlete hero who can make plays all by himself, would have felt an ever pressing need with the 2017 team to go overboard to save the day. It may have worked for a game or two, but it also probably would have backfired and meant a few more turnovers and other wasted opportunities.
We would not have been much better over the past 2 years with Marquise Williams at QB, but his play almost certainly would have assured many fans of the falsehood that Fedora is 'that close' to becoming a great coach winning every year.
Sounds like you stopped allowing your mind to grow a long time ago. Maybe you should go back to college. You just compared QB play to the Weimar Republic. FFS dude...
For the record it’s not just athletic talent. I had a stronger arm than Nathan Elliott when I was in 8th grade. And he is obviously terrible at reading defenses. You don’t think Quise was a leader? How do you think he managed to have that locker room behind him, when there was a future #2 pick sitting behind him?
I can’t believe you just went to that much effort to justify an absurdly delusional belief that Nathan Elliott is even comparable to Quise as a QB.
