I'm not voting or supporting her, regardless of party affiliation. I have plenty of reason not to. If she were to be elected, I would expect nothing but exactly what she's shown so far- none of it is good from my perspective.
Fiorina Strikes Back At Pro-Abortion Critics
- Thread starter Nuk'EM Heels
- Start date
She's been proven to have misappropriated a quote.
But you hated her and thought she was a liar before you knew her name, so it's kind of pointless to have a discussion.
Yeah, especially when one of us calls a lie a misappropriated quote. Euphemisms are lies, too.
And, try to not embellish my comments. I don't "hate" her. I don't know the woman. I know she's capable of lying about something very important to our society and I also think her views on foreign policy are dangerous. I don't hate the woman at all.
Dear God, you are a pain in the ass
Of course you don't hate the woman. You hate the candidate.
It's easier to talk to a teenage girl than you. I'm done. Take the last word.
Of course you don't hate the woman. You hate the candidate.
It's easier to talk to a teenage girl than you. I'm done. Take the last word.
Liberals and whatever the hell strum is, are going to argue the details so that they can label Fiorina a liar. But deep down, even they know they're wrong in this argument. But by focusing on the details and not the overall larger message, they can make themselves believe they're right.
She's the one that brought up the details. If she had just said "Abortion is immoral and PP should be defunded," then we could discuss the larger message. If she had said "Harvesting fetal tissue for research is immoral," then we could discuss that.
But she said that PP personnel looked at a fetus on a table kicking its limbs and said "We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain." That never happened. There is no video of anyone from PP looking at a fetus kicking its limbs and saying "We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain." You can dismiss it as details, but she misrepresented facts to try to make PP seem worse. Politicians do this crap all the time, but don't try to pretend what she said was true.
Yep. And if that's all that Fiorina had said, then it would be true. But instead, she described a more cold and callous scene that never happened, and she got called out on it.
Her PAC putting out a doctored video only pushes her deception further, in my opinion. As you said, if she'd just addressed what was FACT, then I'd have no problem with her statements about this particular issue. We'll never know now. But, it's good to know people are willing to give her a pass over minor details.
Well, to some degree, I agree that PP's actions are cold and callous enough in their own right that they don't need to be embellished.
And for the record, what Fiorina said most likely has happened and continues to happen. She just doesn't have the proof to attribute those comments to PP. But I like to read between the lines and make reasonable conclusions. I know you attorneys don't really do that.
I don't recall you being so worried about fax with Michael Brown and hands up don't shoot. I seem to remember the important thing was that police brutality this not actually whether or not it happened at that moment.
And we don't know that the scene that she described never happened- all we know at the moment is that no scene involving Planned Parenthood has yet been released. But we know it happens because Planned Parenthood told us
They are fine with it when it involves minorities and/or episodes of potential racism.
What the hell are you talking about? I was very interested in the facts of that case, especially because there were conflicting stories about what happened. I honestly don't know what you're referring to.
Man, those are some impressive logical gymnastics. You've now gone from "It's true" to "It could be true." Fine. We agree that there is (currently) no support for her statement being true.
Why do you keep bringing up my job? Did a lawyer beat you up when you were a kid or something?
No, there is plenty of support for her statement being true. Let's start with the PP admins/physicians who basically detailed the exact scenario Fiorina claims to have seen on video.
And the old Michael Brown thread is gone, but your recent post on this topic said that Obama acted accordingly because there was widespread belief that Brown was gunned down while running away. I can link it if you like.
In short, you give criminals a pass while condemning politicians who speak in a debate and claim to see exactly what the abortion clinics themselves state happens. Makes sense to me.
Okay, this is getting pretty out there. What in the world do Michael Brown and Planned Parenthood have to do with each other?!
Quit trying to dance around what Fiorina actually said. She didn't say in general terms that PP harvests tissue from fetuses. That would be true. Instead, she described a specific scene in a video where PP personnel are talking about a fetus on a table moving its limbs when they say "We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain." That scene is not in the video, and there's no support that it ever happened. I know you know this.
And I give criminals a pass?! That's just crazy. I've never been a champion of Brown's cause. To the contrary, I always said it was a strange case for activists to use because it appeared that Brown instigated the confrontation (compared to more egregious examples like the guy shot in WalMart with the BB gun or the 12-year-old kid shot in his front yard). I did say that the officer had an obligation to stop shooting if Brown was running away. But I certainly never gave Brown a "pass."
Now what does any of that have to do with Fiorina telling people to watch something in a video that's not in the video?
Anybody who wants to shut down PP has serious mental issues. Less than 3% of the services they provide are related to abortions, and no public funds go towards them whatsoever. The idea of denying millions of women healthcare to advance some theocratic fascist political agenda is sickening.
And, if that 3% number is really true (which I highly doubt unless you link a reputable source...), even that small percentage is repulsive especially given that PP is harvesting baby organs... in itself a very fascist thing to do...
Even removing the abortion piece of it, I have mixed feelings on PP in general. What do they offer that local, private nonprofit organizations couldn't? A local, privately funded organization would most likely be far more efficient and mindful of spending. Plus, in a local, privately funded nonprofit org, I would have a say on how certain services are delivered. Even if PP still existed, why can't they go without public funding? Approximately 25% of their budget is made up from private donations/foundation monies? Why couldn't they increase that to 100%? Because they might actually have to work hard and answer to someone other than having carte blanche with the govt?
Futhermore, while we all understand that there is a law in place that prevents tax money from being allocated directly towards abortions, I work in an NPO and I know the tricks of the trade. I know how easy it is to simply move money to make it look like a specific bundle is not being allocated towards a specific bucket. It happens all the time. Tax payer monies go into the larger pot which frees up other monies to go directly towards funding abortions. So in essence, govt. funding does indeed go towards abortions.
Fund PP privately and all of this goes away. Seems easy to me.
Great, let's double-down on fascism! Hey, at least they allow God to be exempt from any guilt.
I gotta say that it is refreshing to see you have a soft spot for human life. If you could only let that kindness drip-over into the ones that have a heartbeat and walk-and-talk, you'd be set. Baby steps.
No, no they don't. They're as divine at age 2, 20, and 80 as they are in the womb.
ANY funds going to PP go in some fashion to support abortion. To deny that is just idiotic. For example; pp gets 100k for an ultrasound machine. Well that frees up 100k they dont have to spend on an ultrasound machine and can do with it as they see fit to finance their other services. Do fed funds DIRECTLY finance abortion? No. But they do ENABLE the service to be provided.
I for one was ambivalent until the videos surfaced and, most importantly, PP's snd libs in general REACTION TO THE VIDEOS. Even correcting for the editing (which was stupid and unnecessary) there is a callousness and disregard for life that i just cant get past and totally disgusts me. I dont want to see the fkers get a penny. They can gth.
I for one was ambivalent until the videos surfaced and, most importantly, PP's snd libs in general REACTION TO THE VIDEOS. Even correcting for the editing (which was stupid and unnecessary) there is a callousness and disregard for life that i just cant get past and totally disgusts me. I dont want to see the fkers get a penny. They can gth.
This is straight up psycho babble. Sorry but the numbers are out there and the vast majority of the services they provide have nothing to do with abortion. Those ultrasound machines aren't being bought so they can free up funds to go toward abortions. They're being bought to provide women with healthcare. Get this through your damn head. NO FEDERAL FUNDS CAN BE USED FOR AN ABORTION. Pretty sad that you let one video make up your mind on an issue that affects millions of women. If you really think that's whats going on at every PP clinic then you have serious issues and should probably seek out your own kind of clinic
That's true. However, a residual effect of them using that money to buy that ultrasound machine is that it frees other monies up for them to support the killing of unborn children...and apparently in a very matter-of-fact, cold and greedy way.
And no one has answered mine and Dr. Carson's question...what is PP doing that other community based NPOs couldn't do better and more efficiently?
Didn't the President of Planned Parenthood lie under oath yesterday that the videos had been tampered with and doctored to paint PP in the worst light possible, when in fact the videos were confirmed by forensic experts to not be tampered with? Didn't she also lie under oath about PP not providing mammograms, when just a few months ago she told CNN that PP DOES provide mammograms?
You guys are ridiculous. Surely any educated adult in the 21st century isn't going to fall for some crap like this. If you really think PP clinics around the country are selling aborted fetal tissue to the highest bidder then you have serious issues. The only thing that tissue is ever used for, is very very important medical research. And It's a very good thing science won out over the bible-thumpers, or we'd still be fighting polio, as opposed to making breakthroughs with stem cell research which could save innumerable lives in the not so distant future.
A very fascist thing to do? How does harvesting baby organs inherently have an authoritarian far right political agenda? Or do you just not know what the word fascist actually means?
Probably because that question is stupid. Those NPO's don't exist, and they certainly don't have facilities, personnel or equipment on the ground in the places where women desperately need reproductive health care. Its funny that you pretend your interest has anything to do with protecting human life when you would callously deny millions of women healthcare just to advance your own political agenda.
YES! Veeeeeeeery fascist. No difference between what PP and other abortionist organization are doing today and what Josef Mengele did at Auschwitz, the ultimate culmination of many decades of eugenics philosophy and policy in action. And, OBTW, Nazis weren't far right, they were Socialists, simply less left-wing than the Stalinists in power in Russia, the socialist in power in Britain, and the Democratic Socialist in power in the USA... They were all about implementing total government control over every aspect of society...
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Horse hockey. You really need to get educated on the latest breakthroughs in stem cell research... Researchers don't NEED to use baby tissue anymore; the science has advanced to the point where adult stem cells are just as useful... But, that wouldn't provide an excuse for abortionists to continue killing babies.
