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Jawad Williams Says Going Outside The Family For Roy's Replacement is a No Go

I don’t think anyone can confidently say that Hubert will succeed at UNC if he’s named head coach. There is just no way of knowing. We can hope he would succeed but there is no proof that he would which means it’s a big risk to hire an unproven commodity to coach the best program in college basketball.

One of the concerns I have with Hubert is he is so dang nice. That is great generally speaking, but the best coaches typically have an edge about them. Look at Roy, K, Knight, Few, Boeheim, Wright, Cal. In football, look at Saban, Dabo, Meyer, etc. All of those guys have an edge to them. They can be both a players coach when needed and light into a player’s a$$ when needed. I just see Hubert as a nice guy, players coach and everybody’s friend. His demeanor fits more of an assistant coach than a head coach.
 
It sounds like he sees 'the family' as restricted to those who played at UNC.

To restrict to even to those who were UNC players or assistants is reckless. And it easily could produce a mess.

They wanted to hire only in 'the family' to replace Guthridge. It did not work (in part because Doherty was not ready, and in larger part because Dean did not want Doherty). If Ropy had stayed at KU and they had kept to that damned 'family only ' notion, UNC may have dirty Larry Brown as coach - Dean adored Brown.

I will bet that Alabama football is not so stupid as to restrict Saban's replacement to a Bama alum. Saban is not a Bama alum. If Ohio St football were that stupid, it never would have hired Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, Jim Tressel, Urban Meyer, or Ryan Day.
Sorry, but that's a REALLY bad example, brother.

bama football thrives by serial cheating --- cheating at a level and consistency never achieved or matched in the annals of the NCAA. Thus, Saban --- an amoral POS --- was the perfect heir to Bear Bryant's legacy, the dirtiest coach in the game.

In fact, bama football is almost perfectly analagous to kentucky basketball --- the toxic culture is in place and they just bring in the next "facilitator".
 
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The condescension started with you calling me blind, so spare me your usual faux indignation. And there's nothing "romantic" or "limited" about my notion --- the record and the men the system has produced speaks for itself... i.e., that "rational" thing.

You're right about one thing, that neither you nor I will make the call when the time comes. As for me, I'll just hope that doesn't have to be decided for a long time, and when it does that Roy will be given the influence that he, like Dean Smith before him, has earned.

I did not call you blind, I said you’re letting gate keeping and fear blind you to the possibility of hiring someone outside of the family. There is a difference so don’t whine and try to twist my words.

Indeed, that is the one thing we agree on in that Roy will have a big influence on who the next hire is. I’m confident he will recommend someone that is best for the program and not necessarily feel compelled to follow him or Dean to the letter.
 
One more time....

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The Dean Smith that replaced McQuire in today's world would very likely have been looking for a job after a couple years with us, rather than having the time to become the legend we all know him to be today. The game, the way it is played, the nature of players, the world itself has changed since Dean was hired as well as since he has retired.

Read someone down playing what Mark Few has done at Gonzaga, was there even Gonzaga basketball before Mark Few? He has taken a crappy program in a crappy conference and lead them to the point where they are in the discussion for the NCAA crown every season. When again has the NCAA ever presented charges that Few or his program have committed violations, I don't recall any? Thou his talent level has increased I don't see a steady line of 5 star talents rolling to the Zags and yet they still win at a very high level every season now days.

Tony Bennett, now I see folks saying they would hate Tony Bennett being our coach because they hate the way he drags a game out, his offense is like watching grass grow? And yet at the same time those very folks share how much love and respect they have for Dean and what he established at UNC? Do ya remember Phil Ford putting those 4 fingers in the air folks, those 4 fingers were in the air at Dean's instruction. Those 4 fingers in the air by Phil resulted in an offensive attack that by comparison made Bennett's offense look like the Running Rebs under Tark! But we found a way to still love Dean?

Roy, for all the love we all have for Roy, for all the love we have for "the system" how is it that we love Roy so much and yet he does not coach like Dean did or have you not noticed that you nearly have to put a gun to Roy's head to force him to have his players go to a zone defense? How about the part of Dean's "system" that featured multiple switching defenses as opposed to our every trip down man defense under Roy?

My point, any coach that replaces Roy will be and will have to be his own coach. Any coach that comes to us should be smart enough to realize that he has to embrace our traditions, embrace our history, maintain and add to the true spirit of family, run a clean program, be respectful to the players both past and present, and maybe most important of all WIN ! I promise you, Hubert may be the greatest guy on the planet but if he takes over for Roy when Roy does step down and does not win, he will be unlikely to see a second contract.

Funny thing winning, funny thing how winning causes a fan base to accept things they used to hate. Example look at Ky and Calipari, when he was at memphis Ky fans hated Calipari more than any fan base today does, more than we do, more than dukies do, more than louisville fans do, Ky fans branded him a cheater that they despised (understandable) every thing about him until they named him as their head coach and now all the sudden they see him as squeaky clean? LOL JUst as UNC fans back in the day were screaming for the AD to fire that loser in-experienced coach named Dean Smith but then his teams began to win and folks forgot how much they hated him.

Fans will accept most anything if the program wins and it is not constantly under NCAA investigation, I hope that separates us from Ky fans in that I hope UNC would never accept a cheater to head our program, I do not believe the admin would allow that but they did allow Butch Davis to head coach our football program and many even to this day hate he was fired.

As I have said, I want the guy that one day replaces Roy to give us wins and do things the right way and I want him to honor our past and add to our history in his future. The Carolina Way, a phrase drug thru the mud in the last few years but that is what is important to me. The Carolina Way is not about 42s and 43s, it isn't about primary or secondary breaks. It is about coaches running a program with honor and respect for the school, for the players, for for those that went before them. It is about doing things the right way more than some "system", it is about embracing the past and adding to that past glory with accomplishment today and in the future. It is about developing players and demanding excellence both on and off the court, it is about all that because it is all of that leading to those wins we covet. Yes, that is easier for a new coach to understand, may make it even more important to a guy that has been thru it but no guarantees there else larry Brown would have been our coach after Gut retired.

For me, our next head coach can run any "system" he wants to run as long as that system respects and honors the Carolina Way and I think any coach would be foolish not to realize that. Matt didn't we all saw how that turned out...
 
You guys are giving Roy way too much power in your scenarios. Bubba will have the final say. Stackhouse is making his move. He was highly regarded in the G-League and on the short list for a nba job. He chose Vandy as a way to put his hat in the ring for the Carolina job. If he does a decent job there, he’s most likely the next UNC coach.
 
I feel the same way about an "in the family" hire as I do about a clean/dirty hire.

All else equal give me the Carolina guy. But if someone who has never even stepped foot in Chapel Hill in their life will get me a round farther than Ramses human incarnate, then I'm all for it.

That said, I'm hoping Stack shows out in the next few years before Roy retires and earns the nod. Hubert would be a dumpster fire.
 
So, is it possible that Hubert can be VERY successful or better than Roy tenure at Kansas if he became UNC's head coach? How long did Dean coach before he got his first title? Folks seem to think that Hubert needs to go out and coach and prove himself before becoming UNC's head coach. I disagree with that.
It is possible. It's also a big gamble. What if he struggles to recruit and can't keep the talent coming in we are used to. Winning slows down and then we struggle for years to climb back up from this poor era.
 
It is possible. It's also a big gamble. What if he struggles to recruit and can't keep the talent coming in we are used to. Winning slows down and then we struggle for years to climb back up from this poor era.

What if? You can say that with any new coach.

How many times have we seen the following comments about Roy?

" If Roy wants X player, I want X player. Roy knows what is best"

It's like having the CEO of the most profitable and ethical company over the last 25 years not being able to name his successor. Roy has that right.

Roy knows how current coaches are recruiting players. Many wonder why Roy did'nt go hard after certain players. Josh Hall, Todd, Jalen Green, Nix, Brown. Roy backed off all these guys with three (Green, Nix and Todd) headed for the G-League, one declared for the NBA draft (Hall) and one rumored (Brown)to be headed to the G-League despite recently committing to Texas.

Roy has earned the right to name his successor and as of right now it is Hubert Davis.

Roy may know some negative things about coaches that some posters are raving about that he does not like, just like some recruits that some posters are enamored with that Roy avoids.
 
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Sorry, but that's a REALLY bad example, brother.

bama football thrives by serial cheating --- cheating at a level and consistency never achieved or matched in the annals of the NCAA. Thus, Saban --- an amoral POS --- was the perfect heir to Bear Bryant's legacy, the dirtiest coach in the game.

In fact, bama football is almost perfectly analagous to kentucky basketball --- the toxic culture is in place and they just bring in the next "facilitator".
lololololol. Please tell me about how clean Auburn is, now and throughout history. If you're going to be so condescending all the time, at least do us the favor of being right. Btw, who's their current basketball coach? He has a history of being clean right? Oh.....
 
You guys are giving Roy way too much power in your scenarios. Bubba will have the final say. Stackhouse is making his move. He was highly regarded in the G-League and on the short list for a nba job. He chose Vandy as a way to put his hat in the ring for the Carolina job. If he does a decent job there, he’s most likely the next UNC coach.
Agreed that people are giving Roy too much power. And honestly, I don't think Roy is the type of person who would demand a certain person to follow him. He has too much respect for Bubba to try to do his job for him.
 
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If it’s Hubert, I really hope he proves me wrong but I see a Kevin Ollie scenario. It won’t end well and I think he flops big time.
 
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lololololol. Please tell me about how clean Auburn is, now and throughout history. If you're going to be so condescending all the time, at least do us the favor of being right. Btw, who's their current basketball coach? He has a history of being clean right? Oh.....
Clueless post, as if on cue. You apparently know nothing about Auburn or Alabama, and FYI I am spot-on right. In fact, not so long ago the NCAA labeled bama football as a "serial repeat violator" and they literally faced the death penalty for one more infraction. Then along came Saban's benefactor Emmert (who covered Saban's ass in the LSU grade-change scandal when he was AD there) whose refusal to follow subsequent Infractions Committee recs to hit bama again triggered several resignations. Fact.

Oh and BTW, Emmert (thru his blow-buddy Sankey) tried his damnedest to find something to stick on UNC MBB, and was the driving force behind UNC's recruiting issues that resulted from stringing Roy along.

As for Pearl, I've never once said anything different than he had a weil-deserved reputation at previous stops for being oily (although what got him his "show-cause" at UT was a dumbass lie on his part to the NCAA over what would have otherwise been a Secondary). I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but AU's compliance staff has him on the shortest of leashes, and there hasn't been a hint of recruiting violations thus far. Meanwhile, up in Tuscaloosa, Avery Johnson and crew flat bought Collin Sexton.... and what happened there? Nada.

So if you're gonna make your snide remarks, at least do us a favor and try being informed.
 
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If it’s Hubert, I really hope he proves me wrong but I see a Kevin Ollie scenario. It won’t end well and I think he flops big time.

No way to know, for you, me, or anyone else unless it happens. I have been in the "Davis needs to prove himself as a HC elsewhere first" camp for some time. I have come to terms that the timeline for that has pretty much expired, and was never a part of "The Plan" anyway.

I will be quite surprised if Hubert Davis doesn't become the next HC of UNC Men's Basketball. If it were not for the new crapshow landscape created by the NBA and NCAA BS I feel Hubert would be very likely to do well with that opportunity. With the new garbage NCAA Coaches are facing there is going to be a steep learning curve of how to deal with and best manage the mega-mess that's coming. I hope Roy has time to figure it out before he steps down, along with Hubert Davis and the rest of the UNC staff.

Whoever gets the job, of course I want them to succeed to the highest level. Since Hubert seems like an outstanding person and has had years to learn with Roy, and imo has the job if he will take it - I hope he will blow us all away with his performance and results when/if he gets that job.
 
If it’s Hubert, I really hope he proves me wrong but I see a Kevin Ollie scenario. It won’t end well and I think he flops big time.

Umm...

Kevin Ollie led UConn to a national title. You would not want that from Hubert?

https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...ires-kevin-ollie-for-cause-huskies-basketball

So you see Hubert as the type that would violate NCAA rules like Ollie did? Is this what you mean by not ending well?

https://nypost.com/2019/07/02/uconn...bation-for-ncaa-violations-under-kevin-ollie/

I'll hang up and listen.
 
Umm...

Kevin Ollie led UConn to a national title. You would not want that from Hubert?

https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...ires-kevin-ollie-for-cause-huskies-basketball

So you see Hubert as the type that would violate NCAA rules like Ollie did? Is this what you mean by not ending well?

https://nypost.com/2019/07/02/uconn...bation-for-ncaa-violations-under-kevin-ollie/

I'll hang up and listen.

Again, take notes. This is what a strawman looks like.

Seriously, why are you arguing things you know the other person is not saying? The parallels between Ollie and Hubert are obviously there (10+ year NBA careers, zero HC experience, filling the shoes of a legendary HC, etc.) and that very well could end up happening to Hubert. Yes, Ollie won a title. Mainly with Calhoun's recruits. I imagine Roy wouldn't leave Hubert with a barren cupboard if he got the job, either. Then, he followed that up with 3 missed NCAA tournaments and had their program fall from grace harder than any other since Indiana. You really want what Ollie did at UConn for UNC? You'd trade our entire program's future for one title up front?
 
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Again, take notes. This is what a strawman looks like.

Seriously, why are you arguing things you know the other person is not saying? The parallels between Ollie and Hubert are obviously there (10+ year NBA careers, zero HC experience, filling the shoes of a legendary HC, etc.) and that very well could end up happening to Hubert. Yes, Ollie won a title. Mainly with Calhoun's recruits. I imagine Roy wouldn't leave Hubert with a barren cupboard if he got the job, either. Then, he followed that up with 3 missed NCAA tournaments and had their program fall from grace harder than any other since Indiana. You really want what Ollie did at UConn for UNC? You'd trade our entire program's future for one title up front?

Do I really want what Ollie did at UConn for UNC? Only his NCAA title doing it the right way, without cheating.

Hubert is not going to lead UNC to probation. That's what led to the demise of Ollie. I don't know anyone that can say with a straight face that Hubert is the type that would get UNC in trouble with the NCAA. After what UNC when through over the last several years with the NCAA this is a critical piece in the hiring process.

When it becomes to ethics, Ollie is not in the class of Hubert. It's laughable to even discuss it. A good case can be made that Ollie was doing some questionable recruiting under Calhoun.

Oh yes, Ollie does has some of the background experiences that Hubert has and it was an advantage for him in getting the UConn job. Hubert has that going for him but once you get the job you must produce and follow NCAA rules.

Hubert has many more positive traits than Ollie. On the other hand, if Ollie would not have violated NCAA rules he may still be at UConn.

If Hubert gets the job and leads UNC to a title within 4 years and keeps the school out of trouble most would accept it.

And yes, the chances are pretty good that Hubert will inherent a good group of players.

I trust Roy and right now he wants Hubert.
 
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Umm...

Kevin Ollie led UConn to a national title. You would not want that from Hubert?

https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...ires-kevin-ollie-for-cause-huskies-basketball

So you see Hubert as the type that would violate NCAA rules like Ollie did? Is this what you mean by not ending well?

https://nypost.com/2019/07/02/uconn...bation-for-ncaa-violations-under-kevin-ollie/

I'll hang up and listen.
Geez, your response couldn’t have been much worse. Rose nailed it so no need for me to say any more.
 
Clueless post, as if on cue. You apparently know nothing about Auburn or Alabama, and FYI I am spot-on right. In fact, not so long ago the NCAA labeled bama football as a "serial repeat violator" and they literally faced the death penalty for one more infraction. Then along came Saban's benefactor Emmert (who covered Saban's ass in the LSU grade-change scandal when he was AD there) whose refusal to follow subsequent Infractions Committee recs to hit bama again triggered several resignations. Fact.

Oh and BTW, Emmert (thru his blow-buddy Sankey) tried his damnedest to find something to stick on UNC MBB, and was the driving force behind UNC's recruiting issues that resulted from stringing Roy along.

As for Pearl, I've never once said anything different than he had a weil-deserved reputation at previous stops for being oily (although what got him his "show-cause" at UT was a dumbass lie on his part to the NCAA over what would have otherwise been a Secondary). I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but AU's compliance staff has him on the shortest of leashes, and there hasn't been a hint of recruiting violations thus far. Meanwhile, up in Tuscaloosa, Avery Johnson and crew flat bought Collin Sexton.... and what happened there? Nada.

So if you're gonna make your snide remarks, at least do us a favor and try being informed.
Lol. The above read like a Pack Pride post.

Auburn is quite literally under FBI investigation right now due to a former assistant being arrested, and Auburn quietly self-imposed sanctions to try to minimize future NCAA sanctions.

But yeah.
 
Geez, your response couldn’t have been much worse. Rose nailed it so no need for me to say any more.

You said that Hubert would suffer the same fate as Ollie.

Ollie was fired for violating NCAA rules.

I doubt that would ever happen with Hubert. Comparing Ollie with Hubert from an ethics standpoint is a joke.
 
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What I've heard from someone who's fairly close to the program is that Hubert will be the next HC in his opinion. He said no one has said that but that's the feeling he gets.
 
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You said that Hubert would suffer the same fate as Ollie.

Ollie was fired for violating NCAA rules.

I doubt that would ever happen with Hubert. Comparing Ollie with Hubert from an ethics standpoint is a joke.

Ollie single handedly ran that program into the ground. You have no argument with or without the NCAA getting involved.
 
I’d be surprised if Hubert doesn’t succeed Roy, very surprised. As stated above, Phil would have succeeded Dean, or at the very least Gut, if he hadn’t blown it. I think Hubert will do a fine job, BTW.
 
Just because Hubert is laid back & a nice doesn't mean he cant coach & recruit ...
You dont have to cuss & drop the F word while the tv cameras are on you to win !!
He is learning the ropes from the best now !! i think he would be a great choice !!

Remember Kansas gave Roy head coaching job with No experience
 
You said that Hubert would suffer the same fate as Ollie.

Ollie was fired for violating NCAA rules.

I doubt that would ever happen with Hubert. Comparing Ollie with Hubert from an ethics standpoint is a joke.
Do you struggle to read? I never once said anything about ethics or ncaa violations. I never once mentioned or insinuated that Hubert would do that and the thought never crossed my mind when I made the comparison. I used Ollie as an example solely based on similar parallels like long time assistants to a legendary coach at a very successful basketball school with both guys being fairly young and having played in the NBA. That formulated the comparison.

Actually read the post and stop making up $hit to fit your false narrative.
 
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Do you struggle to read? I never once said anything about ethics or ncaa violations. I never once mentioned or insinuated that Hubert would do that and the thought never crossed my mind when I made the comparison. I used Ollie as an example solely based on similar parallels like long time assistants to a legendary coach at a very successful basketball school with both guys being fairly young and having played in the NBA. That formulated the comparison.

Actually read the post and stop making up $hit to fit your false narrative.

Here is your exact post:

"If it’s Hubert, I really hope he proves me wrong but I see a Kevin Ollie scenario. It won’t end well and I think he flops big time".

Kevin Ollie was fired for violating NCAA rules. Included in Ollie's scenario was getting fired for violating NCAA rules.

Hubert may get fired, but it will not be for violating NCAA rules. Time to stop. You not looking good bro.
 
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Here is your exact post:

"If it’s Hubert, I really hope he proves me wrong but I see a Kevin Ollie scenario. It won’t end well and I think he flops big time".

Kevin Ollie was fired for violating NCAA rules. Included in Ollie's scenario was getting fired for violating NCAA rules.

Hubert may get fired, but it will not be for violating NCAA rules. Time to stop. You not looking good bro.
Dude, just stop. You can’t see the forest for the trees. Again, I never said anything about NCAA violations. The “Kevin Ollie scenario” was solely based on Ollie’s lack of on the court production and damaging a great program. It had nothing to do with his off the court issues. The “won’t end well” is based simply on both getting fired from their dream coaching jobs at their alma mater.

You can’t be this dense, so just give it up.
 
Dude, just stop. You can’t see the forest for the trees. Again, I never said anything about NCAA violations. The “Kevin Ollie scenario” was solely based on Ollie’s lack of on the court production and damaging a great program. It had nothing to do with his off the court issues. The “won’t end well” is based simply on both getting fired from their dream coaching jobs at their alma mater.

You can’t be this dense, so just give it up.

I'm not a mind reader. I responded to your 2-sentence original post which most folks would interpret the same way.

The problem you have is you jumped on Rose's reply in your support after the fact. If you would have made yourself clear in your original post we could have avoided most of this conversation.

Your explanations after the fact makes more sense, but you did a very poor job upfront.

Time to move on.
 
Dude, just stop. You can’t see the forest for the trees. Again, I never said anything about NCAA violations. The “Kevin Ollie scenario” was solely based on Ollie’s lack of on the court production and damaging a great program. It had nothing to do with his off the court issues. The “won’t end well” is based simply on both getting fired from their dream coaching jobs at their alma mater.

You can’t be this dense, so just give it up.

He is that dense, though. He’s also a conman that won’t honor a bet.
 
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Lol. The above read like a Pack Pride post.

Auburn is quite literally under FBI investigation right now due to a former assistant being arrested, and Auburn quietly self-imposed sanctions to try to minimize future NCAA sanctions.

But yeah.
Chuck Person's idiocy was not a recruiting violation and Pearl had nothing to do with it. Nice try at deflection, but bottom line is you once again stuck your nose into a subject you know nothing about. Everything I posted was dead-on fact, so take your juvenile "Pack Pride" crap and shove it.
 
Dear Mr Streat: You make some excellent points. And upon magnification, I see that your icon is Coach Krzyzewski in a rat trap, but at normal size it looks like K in a recliner. Therefore, I declare Mr. Steat the loser of this argument
 
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