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Jordan And Finals...

Name 19 better.

Russell Westbrook
James Harden
LeBron James
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Jimmy Butler
Stephen Curry
Kawhi Leonard
Rudy Gobert
Karl-Anthony Towns
Nikola Jokic
DeMarcus Cousins
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Kyle Lowry
Isaiah Thomas
Draymond Green
Mike Conley
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Marc Gasol

CC
 
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Russell Westbrook
James Harden
LeBron James
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Jimmy Butler
Stephen Curry
Kawhi Leonard
Rudy Gobert
Karl-Anthony Towns
Nikola Jokic
DeMarcus Cousins
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Kyle Lowry
Isaiah Thomas
Draymond Green
Mike Conley
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Marc Gasol

CC

Hahaha

This thread is becoming epic
 
I don't think MJ would be off the top of my list if he hypothetically were to be called for the G6 pushoff
LOL. That was the most exaggerated "pushoff" of all time. MJ is not the hulk. He can't throw someone across the court with one hand.
 
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At the very same time, he's very close to being 3-5 and facing the same threat to his legacy against the Spurs in 2013. And that's pretty much a killing blow to his chance at "G.O.A.T."

I'm about the biggest LeBron fan on the planet- and you will NEVER hear the argument from me that he is the GOAT. That title goes to Michael Jordan, forever until the end of time.

Don't put words in my mouth.
 
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Lebron is a stud bottom line. But toss in the fact that if he gets going down hill towards the rim, the fact that NBA refs allow for up to 6 steps by him is nearly laughable to defend.
 
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
LeBron James
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Jimmy Butler
Stephen Curry
Kawhi Leonard
Rudy Gobert
Karl-Anthony Towns
Nikola Jokic
DeMarcus Cousins
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Kyle Lowry
Isaiah Thomas
Draymond Green
Mike Conley
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Marc Gasol

CC

This list is laughable.

I'm about the biggest LeBron fan on the planet- and you will NEVER hear the argument from me that he is the GOAT. That title goes to Michael Jordan, forever until the end of time.

Don't put words in my mouth.

If you didn't say that my words don't apply to you.

Still doesn't change it that people do say this.
 
Why? You do realize that Wade and Bosh (at the time) combined were worth about 1/2 a Pippen in his Chi days.

This has to be the craziest thing I've seen in this thread.

And Kyrie still isn't a top 20 player in the league.

Ok, it didn't hold the title for that long.... this is now the craziest thing I've seen in this thread.
 
Jimmy Butler
Rudy Gobert
Nikola Jokic
DeMarcus Cousins
Chris Paul
Kyle Lowry
Isaiah Thomas
Draymond Green
Mike Conley
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Marc Gasol

None of the above are better than Kyrie, IMO. But - there are a couple that I think are right on par, and can come down to a matter of opinion. But Gobert, Jokic, and Gasol? I realize these guys are near the top of the list of big guys in the NBA, but the big man crop is pretty dry. Irving is the best PG in the East - so not sure why a couple guys he schooled on his way to the finals (Lowry and Thomas), as well as Wall, are on this list.
 
Well, if there's one thing I've learned today, it's that Marc Gasol is better than Kyrie Irving.
I don't think this is far fetched. Kyrie is the second most offensively gifted player in the NBA behind KD IMO. But there are a ton of levels to the game. Gasol probably does everything better than Kyrie aside from scoring and handling. Gasol's a better rebounder, defender, he protects the rim, he's probably a better passer.

I think Kyrie is a lot better than IT but I would probably rank Kyrie behind Marc Gasol.

You have no chance in the NBA if you can't defend the rim. And Gasol/Gobert can.
 
I don't think this is far fetched. Kyrie is the second most offensively gifted player in the NBA behind KD IMO. But there are a ton of levels to the game. Gasol probably does everything better than Kyrie aside from scoring and handling. Gasol's a better rebounder, defender, he protects the rim, he's probably a better passer.

I think Kyrie is a lot better than IT but I would probably rank Kyrie behind Marc Gasol.

You have no chance in the NBA if you can't defend the rim. And Gasol/Gobert can.
I've read this guys trash for the last time. The only reason he posts such garbage is to stir the sh!t and ruffle feathers. I really believe he enjoys getting under everyone's skin. Just trying to push buttons and it seems to be working. IGNORED FROM HERE ON
 
I don't think this is far fetched. Kyrie is the second most offensively gifted player in the NBA behind KD IMO. But there are a ton of levels to the game. Gasol probably does everything better than Kyrie aside from scoring and handling. Gasol's a better rebounder, defender, he protects the rim, he's probably a better passer.

I think Kyrie is a lot better than IT but I would probably rank Kyrie behind Marc Gasol.

You have no chance in the NBA if you can't defend the rim. And Gasol/Gobert can.

wow this is really unbelievable.Too many ludicrous points to even begin to dissect. So by your own words Lebron has the "second most offensively gifted player in the game"l playing besides him. There should really be no further discussion on the supposed "lack of talent" Lebron is getting this done with then. Thats the only thing in your post really worth addressing.
 
I don't think this is far fetched. Kyrie is the second most offensively gifted player in the NBA behind KD IMO. But there are a ton of levels to the game. Gasol probably does everything better than Kyrie aside from scoring and handling. Gasol's a better rebounder, defender, he protects the rim, he's probably a better passer.

I think Kyrie is a lot better than IT but I would probably rank Kyrie behind Marc Gasol.

You have no chance in the NBA if you can't defend the rim. And Gasol/Gobert can.

Dude is talking about defense but puts Harden on his list.

Next.
 
Dude is talking about defense but puts Harden on his list.

Next.
On my list?

If I'm ranking

1 LeBron
2 Durant
3 Kawhi
4 Curry
5 CP3

I do think Harden's better than Kyrie and I'm not sure if that's really debatable.
 
I don't think this is far fetched. Kyrie is the second most offensively gifted player in the NBA behind KD IMO. But there are a ton of levels to the game. Gasol probably does everything better than Kyrie aside from scoring and handling. Gasol's a better rebounder, defender, he protects the rim, he's probably a better passer.

I think Kyrie is a lot better than IT but I would probably rank Kyrie behind Marc Gasol.

You have no chance in the NBA if you can't defend the rim. And Gasol/Gobert can.

Funnier by the moment. WoW!!!. 2nd most gifted?. I love Kyrie's drives to the basket, he makes some of the most difficult shots in the NBA. Kyrie is to inconsistent to be in the convo about top offensive players.

Best Handles, most clutch are about the only two things I could rank Kyrie right now a top player at.
 
Not necessarily. If that were the case, Kobe wouldn't sniff my top 10 because the Lakers loss to the Pistons was the greatest upset in NBA history according to Vegas and I think a pretty fair statement. Plus, Kobe wasn't the best player on that team. Harsh to judge him too harshly with that in mind.

I don't think MJ would be off the top of my list if he hypothetically were to be called for the G6 pushoff, and if Utah would have won in G7. He goes 5-1 and is still the GOAT at the moment.

I think LeBron is the best basketball player I've seen. But in today's world, we need to count accomplishments and I think LeBron's accomplishments to this point are on par with MJ. I don't view finishing second as the worst thing ever either. If we do that game, a lot of NBA greats had completely meaningless careers.

People seem to always forget Jordan only played 12 seasons, minus the charity seasons with the Wizard. LeBron has already played 14 seasons in the NBA, and is now starting to eclipse the playoff records set by LeBron. And he's likely got more than 5 years left in him, the earliest of those still being at his peak, physicality-wise.

Now if Jordan had done the same, or played as long as LeBron will, his attempts to sit upon the top would be much harder, if not impossible to reach.

The opponent here is different. Reasonably speaking, the Warriors may have 4 of the best 5 players in this series. An argument can be made that they're the most lethal team and could beat any team in NBA history in a 7 game series.

This goes back to my earlier point that each championship is not created equal IMO. If LeBron somehow wins it this year, the opponent is worth so much that I do think it catapults him to the very top. And the opponent is so great that losing doesn't do much to negate anything he's accomplished.

IMHO, I can't go for that. Every time LeBron comes up short, there's always some reason/excuse why. But when he wins, he gets all the credit, hands down.

Look at last years finals, for example. The "LeBroners" (as it's been dubbed), were already trying to discount it because it was the "greatest team in NBA history", then after he won in 7 Games, they tried to flip it to LeBron carrying his team and bringing home a title to Cleveland, despite the fact that Draymond Green's antics + Steph Curry being injured played a huge part into it.

And yes, I know this GS team is a monster. Last year's team was too, that didn't stop the same flip flopping.
 
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People seem to always forget Jordan only played 12 seasons, minus the charity seasons with the Wizard. LeBron has already played 14 seasons in the NBA, and is now starting to eclipse the playoff records set by LeBron. And he's likely got more than 5 years left in him, the earliest of those still being at his peak, physicality-wise.

Now if Jordan had done the same, or played as long as LeBron will, his attempts to sit upon the top would be much harder, if not impossible to reach.



IMHO, I can't go for that. Every time LeBron comes up short, there's always some reason/excuse why. But when he wins, he gets all the credit, hands down.

Look at last years finals, for example. The "LeBroners" (as it's been dubbed), were already trying to discount it because it was the "greatest team in NBA history", then after he won in 7 Games, they tried to flip it to LeBron carrying his team and bringing home a title to Cleveland, despite the fact that Draymond Green's antics + Steph Curry being injured played a huge part into it.

And yes, I know this GS team is a monster. Last year's team was too, that didn't stop the same flip flopping.

People forget Jordan missed almost 2 whole seasons to play Baseball in his prime.
 
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MJ has Two Three-peats in his trophy bag. He is the Greatest ever! How many more points per game would he have scored IF he were 6-9?

I don't think he'd score more. The thing is had the NBA not let Detroit and others admittedly employ a hard foul strategy on Jordan, he'd have more championships and earlier. With very little support, he'd nearly beat (maybe did one time) the mighty Celtics with Bird in his prime. That is some feat. Not sure many younger fans realize how good Larry Bird and the Celtics overall were. To near beat them or beat them as a one man team almost is shocking.

In today's game, most of those fouls the Pistons and others employed would be flagrant. That's the only way they could stop him. Wouldn't happen now. It's amazing Jordan was tough enough to take it. A lot of guys would have had their career ended with such consistent, hard fouls all game long.

If Jordan in his prime were playing today, I don't see how he wouldn't score 50 or more a game, scoring at will. He'd be so unstoppable it would be ridiculous. On the other hand, he might not have developed his outside shot as much as he did.
 
Not necessarily. If that were the case, Kobe wouldn't sniff my top 10 because the Lakers loss to the Pistons was the greatest upset in NBA history according to Vegas and I think a pretty fair statement. Plus, Kobe wasn't the best player on that team. Harsh to judge him too harshly with that in mind.

I don't think MJ would be off the top of my list if he hypothetically were to be called for the G6 pushoff, and if Utah would have won in G7. He goes 5-1 and is still the GOAT at the moment.

I think LeBron is the best basketball player I've seen. But in today's world, we need to count accomplishments and I think LeBron's accomplishments to this point are on par with MJ. I don't view finishing second as the worst thing ever either. If we do that game, a lot of NBA greats had completely meaningless careers.

The opponent here is different. Reasonably speaking, the Warriors may have 4 of the best 5 players in this series. An argument can be made that they're the most lethal team and could beat any team in NBA history in a 7 game series.

This goes back to my earlier point that each championship is not created equal IMO. If LeBron somehow wins it this year, the opponent is worth so much that I do think it catapults him to the very top. And the opponent is so great that losing doesn't do much to negate anything he's accomplished.

Come on. If the refs called fouls like they do today, MJ would have had 9-10 championships. Lebron just doesn't compare. Not in the same category actually. Great player but besides MJ being unstoppable, he was a more ferocious competitor, made his teammates better like a coach on the floor and a better defender. Jordan playing today might have averaged 50 points or more a game and still played lock down D.
 
Remember the Piston's the Jordan rules? Anyone hear of the Lebron rules?

Don't think so.

The Jordan Rules were "to put him on the floor if he went to the basket" according to one of their own players.
 
There is no doubt that the Bulls would've won 8 straight if Michael didn't step away from the game and play baseball after his dad was murdered. And it potentially could've been 9 or 10 if the Bulls had kept the team together after the second 3-peat.
 
Its pretty hilarious watching this side by side Lebrons flopping video. Totally different mentality. Like they are a different species.
Amen. Can you imagine Bron having to deal with getting assaulted by the "Bruise Brothers"? I believe he'd be sitting on the bench crying by the end of the 1st quarter.

Toughness, both mental and physical, may be the biggest difference between Bron and Michael. Bron wants to win, Michael refused to lose.
 
Disagree heavily with these 9 being better than Kyrie.

Talk to me when they put up 25 and 6 on 47/40/90.

Those 9 had a higher VORP (value over replacement player) numbers than Kyrie. There have never been less than 17 better players than Kyrie in his career by this measure.

So maybe not better but more valuable at their respective positions.

CC
 
Those 9 had a higher VORP (value over replacement player) numbers than Kyrie. There have never been less than 17 better players than Kyrie in his career by this measure.

So maybe not better but more valuable at their respective positions.

CC

You are really really reaching.
 
You are really really reaching.

Why? We need a league relative stat to try and get a better idea of how these players rate. IDK if VORP is it or not but saying the NBA was better in the 80s/90s based on one's memory of the time period is not going to cut it. Of course agreeing on a metric is probably just as tough as original question.

I don't really have a horse in this race as I'd love to see a team of 5 MJ's play 5 LBJ's. But would that even measure which is greater.

CC
 
Why? We need a league relative stat to try and get a better idea of how these players rate. IDK if VORP is it or not but saying the NBA was better in the 80s/90s based on one's memory of the time period is not going to cut it. Of course agreeing on a metric is probably just as tough as original question.

I don't really have a horse in this race as I'd love to see a team of 5 MJ's play 5 LBJ's. But would that even measure which is greater.

CC
 
MJ is six for six in NBA Finals. This includes two three-peats. Get back to me whenever Lebron even wins another Finals. Golden State is getting ready to walk the dog on the Cavs again in just a bit...
 
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