Jordan And Finals...
- Thread starter ChapelHeeled
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I was about to put him on ignore, but anybody that would take Curry over Stockton is special! I will not use the ignore function because sometimes I need some comic relief!
Thanks for the laughs dude and you have earned your title as: Worst Troll Ever!
(may you reign forever)
Thanks for the laughs dude and you have earned your title as: Worst Troll Ever!
(may you reign forever)
I mean seriously, let's get this straight...now the Warriors lost games on purpose for rest- because they were SO confident they would win the series that they were toying around...IN THE FINALS?
If he thinks that's reasonable, he knows nothing about basketball at all.
I'm glad it took the league tipping the scales for the Cavs to win. Surely, that's the ONLY REASON he averaged 29.7 PPG, 11.3 Boards, 8.9 Assists, and was the first player in league history to lead the finals in all 5 major categories.
Just an absolute ridiculous post in every way, shape, and form.
You seem very defensive of bron. It's fine he's a great player. Perhaps toying was a poor choice of words. But I recall watching that series and never really feeling as if they were threatened. By the way, are you in fact old enough to remember the teams Jordan went against? Your posts are somewhat dismissive of these teams. The game may be played differently, but today's eastern conference NBA looks like mid major d1 vs the acc when compared to back then. It's really not an argument. The talent gap is extreme.
I never said they lost on purpose. I said they rested players, and methodically beat the cavs in a no doubter. Last year they were robbed by what appeared to be tampering by the league. The league needs bron to win, that much is clear.
Well, they certainly want him to win, that's what I think is clear. I think they'd do just as well, if not better, if they just let him be the villain that never (or rarely) wins.
Huh? The league tampered? How. Sitting Draymond Green for one game because he smacked him in the goods? He deserved to sit.
This is such a ridiculous argument. How about enjoy the greatness that's in front of your eyes and get rid of your ridiculous agenda.
The Cavs won last year because when it mattered LBJ turned out one of the greatest performances in finals history. Period. End of discussion. That. Is. What. Happened.
Your Bron-hate goggles don't change the truth.
Boy you guys defending bron sure do get emotional. My opinion is it was a ridiculous suspension that enabled the series momentum to swing drastically when it looked like a run away. Simply my opinion and I think the league loves lebron and that suspension doesn't happen against another team.
I already said I think he's a great player. But we were discussing him and Jordan and im simply arguing there's number of reasons why he doesn't impress me anywhere near as much as mj did. In today's watered down eastern conference he's been dominant, I never disputed that.
Could be correct. There's always enough hyped up drama around this guy to make anyone vomit, and it all is ridiculously choreographed.
Note-again I'm not saying he's not a great player-for the emotional ones.
I'm not remotely emotional, and I haven't read the entire thread so I didn't see you say he was great. But using words like "tampered" is absolutely absurd. Draymond has a track record. He doesn't get away with that the way, say, Kyle Korver might. Rasheed would've caught that very same suspension in 2004, whereas if Tayshaun Prince did the same thing, he probably wouldn't have.
Even still, that's one game. The Cavs still had to win two others on the way to that title in regards to the comeback, and they did it on the back of one of the greatest finals performances of all time.
And yes- the East is weaker right now, but you're not going to make the argument that there isn't a team in the West you could add Bron to and he's not still knocking on the door of the finals every year. Maybe not 7 straight, but I guarantee 4 or 5 of 7.
Besides, he's a week and a half away (if he wins) from being 4-4 against the almighty West in the Finals for his career. .500 against the West in the last 10 years is still pretty freaking impressive. As is 4 rings.
At the very same time, he's very close to being 3-5 and facing the same threat to his legacy against the Spurs in 2013. And that's pretty much a killing blow to his chance at "G.O.A.T."
And the Jordaners will spin it as the east was such a bear back when MJ played and how much it sucks when bron played. It goes both ways. It's a barstool argument. I think what's getting lost in the thread is that I don't think anyone has said Lebron is outright the best of all time, but moreso if he continues on his path he has that chance. The amount of people just openly dismissing him is letting greatness pass you by. Not appreciating what's right in front of you.
And btw the reason Draymond sat out last year for a game is because he had racked up so many Ts/Flagrants that the next one he got would cause an automatic one game suspension. The cavs also beat him 3 other times with him in the lineup.
And how reaching 8 Finals is somehow better than 6-0.
And you can't discount that feat, but 2nd place is still the first loser. Especially in Basketball.
Tell me which Eastern Conference Finals' team this year's Celtics were touching during Jordan's era and I will laugh in your face. Eastern Conference is notoriously weak right now No team on the East that hasn't had LeBron has won since the Celtics Big 3 in 2008.
You say it goes both ways, yet when the "Lebroners" call out Jordan, they try to discount Jordan's accomplishments while downplaying LeBron's flaws. They claim Jordan had a big 3 too, yet Kyrie and K Love are averaging better than Rodman and Pippen were on the 1995-96 Bulls.
No, there are people that do say LeBron is outright the G.O.A.T. Now granted, these types of people usually don't know anything about the game of Basketball before Kobe, but these people do exist.
He obviously has a very good chance to surpass Jordan. Perhaps better than anyone in the generations since, but we have people who believe he's already the G.O.A.T. with only 3 Titles. Which is stupid. Same as those who say LeBron will "never" pass Jordan.
I thought his suspension during Game 5 was is automatic, but had he not have been suspended during Game 5, when Curry had his best game, The Warriors would have closed it out. But his stupid shenanigans ****ed over his team. Not an excuse, but the truth.
Saying all I've said... The Warriors are probably going to sweep this year. IMO, they'd beat any team in history. They won't go down as the best since they didn't care about the regular season, but they're going to go 4-4-4-4 and sweep the defending champs.
To me, it does nothing to LeBron and his legacy.
To me, it does nothing to LeBron and his legacy.
I'll put it this way with Kyrie and KLove. They're really good players and at times Kyrie is a spectacular offensive player.
But in game 3 of the first round of the playoffs, the Cavs were down by 26 points in the 3rd quarter. Kyrie played the first 7:43 of the quarter, and the lead was cut to 19. Kyrie didn't play a single minute for the final 16:17 and the Cavs outscored the Pacers by 24. Kyrie and Love didn't play in the 4th quarter.
LeBron played with 4 bench players for 9:16 of that 4th quarter and won the game.
Again, I'm not saying that Kyrie and Love are trash, but Pippen and Rodman's value were tremendously greater than Kyrie and Love. During LeBron's first and second year back in CLE, it was common to see Love being benched during crunch time. And it hasn't been completely ridiculous to see Kyrie on the bench in key 4th quarter moments. You couldn't sit Scottie because he was at least dominant defensively.
I'm sorry, but if your coach thinks he can bench you in a playoff game all 4th quarter WHEN YOU'RE TRAILING, you aren't better than Pippen (unless he voluntarily sits himself in the final 1.8 seconds of a playoff game
)/Rodman. Especially when the replacements were dirt old Deron Williams and older dirt Channing Frye.
Dude it was game 3 of the opening round against a GARBAGE Pacers team. So for Lebron this Finals is a win-win. If he loses then he was supposed to, if he wins, it's an upset. Losing matters just as much as winning. He gets credit for last year but if he loses this year then it's expected? That's a bullshit narrative, you have the highest payroll in NBA history, you're the GOAT in some people's eyes, go win.
I agree losing to this Warrior team will do nothing to dampen LeBron's legacy, but that is exactly the point MJ fans have been yelling at you about. MJ was 6-0 in the finals with zero series go to a 7th game. It is all guessing, but Chicago had 6'6 MJ 6'7 Pippen 6'7 kukoc those guys could make Curry, Klay, and Durant miserable so no I do not feel Warriors would even be the favorite if they played the Chicago team that had Rodman.
SJung your a smart dude, all Warriors did was hold home court. I will say if Lebron beats this Warrior squad he adds greatly to an already impressive legacy.
Lol so now we are setting it up as if poor Cleveland so much as manages to win a game or two against "the best team ever" than bron is a miracle worker. Had a feeling this was coming.
You can't have it both ways.
You can't have it both ways.
This is the problem I have with those who are ready to crown LeBron as the greatest: They keep saying losing "does nothing to his legacy".
Losing does change your legacy.
If he wants to be the player with the most finals appearances in history, that's fine. That doesn't make him the G.O.A.T. You can't be the G.O.A.T. with a losing record. Especially with weaker competition.
I'm not dismissing this feat. Because this isn't something that any great player could do. But this is one sample size.
On the flip, take Game 3 vs the Celtics. LeBron statistically had the worst game of his playoffs career with 11 points and 6 turnovers. Kyrie and K Love both had 29. Loss.
Next game, in danger of going down 2-2, Kyrie steps up while LeBron's in foul trouble, drops 42. Though LeBron did come back and drop 34.
And I'm not discounting the impact of Pippen/Rodman. But so many people seem to forget that these guys are very, very good. And now they're both playing their best basketball since arriving in Cleveland this season. Hence why i'm not buying into the coddling of the "LeBron doing more with less" narrative. He has as great of a supporting cast as Jordan did in his situation.
I'm sorry, but if your coach thinks he can bench you in a playoff game all 4th quarter WHEN YOU'RE TRAILING, you aren't better than Pippen (unless he voluntarily sits himself in the final 1.8 seconds of a playoff game
I missed this game, but if they were playing as bad as it was described, I'd bench them too. Especially if they're not playing up to standard. Only guy on that team I'm not benching is LeBron, for obvious reasons. These guys aren't gonna suddenly find their touch like Steph can.
Plus it payed off in the end for Lue and Cavs, so really no issue here.
To me, the discussion of who is the best of all time is near impossible to hold because so few have really seen them all play outside of clips and re-runs. I think a more reasonable discussion is who is the greatest of their generation because the game changes, circumstances change.
Lebron is the greatest of his generation, MJ was of his, heck Shaq was in his, Jabbar for a time, Wilt, picking just one would have to see them going against each other in their prime and that is rarely possible. Appreciate them for what they are in their own time and don't look so much to compare what can not be proven and no, stats do not prove who is best. Younger folks will always tend to defer to the current generation of players, older folks will tend to defer to the older generation of players who most have been many years retired.
Lebron is the greatest of his generation, MJ was of his, heck Shaq was in his, Jabbar for a time, Wilt, picking just one would have to see them going against each other in their prime and that is rarely possible. Appreciate them for what they are in their own time and don't look so much to compare what can not be proven and no, stats do not prove who is best. Younger folks will always tend to defer to the current generation of players, older folks will tend to defer to the older generation of players who most have been many years retired.
Not only that, it seems LeBron picks his supporting cast. HE wanted Love. They could have had Wiggins, and the $$ for another top player. HE publicly said the Cavs should pay Tristan Thompson. Look at the JR Smith and Iman Shumpert deals... Cavs have had the highest team salary in NBA history over the last couple years, and we are complaining about his supporting cast? Ok.
Not necessarily. If that were the case, Kobe wouldn't sniff my top 10 because the Lakers loss to the Pistons was the greatest upset in NBA history according to Vegas and I think a pretty fair statement. Plus, Kobe wasn't the best player on that team. Harsh to judge him too harshly with that in mind.
I don't think MJ would be off the top of my list if he hypothetically were to be called for the G6 pushoff, and if Utah would have won in G7. He goes 5-1 and is still the GOAT at the moment.
I think LeBron is the best basketball player I've seen. But in today's world, we need to count accomplishments and I think LeBron's accomplishments to this point are on par with MJ. I don't view finishing second as the worst thing ever either. If we do that game, a lot of NBA greats had completely meaningless careers.
The opponent here is different. Reasonably speaking, the Warriors may have 4 of the best 5 players in this series. An argument can be made that they're the most lethal team and could beat any team in NBA history in a 7 game series.
This goes back to my earlier point that each championship is not created equal IMO. If LeBron somehow wins it this year, the opponent is worth so much that I do think it catapults him to the very top. And the opponent is so great that losing doesn't do much to negate anything he's accomplished.
Thanks for bringing up JR. Does anyone else find it amazing that LeBron won a ring with JR? That's the one guy in the NBA I would've bet the mortgage on to go ringless.
I think the Wiggins stuff gets overblown. Wiggins and LeBron play the same positions and it probably doesn't work out. But it's a fair point that they could have had him plus someone else. Also, every superstar has a hand in personel decisions. LeBron's is very public, but if you don't, I question the front office. Making the superstar happy and comfortable is really important. Spurs excluded.
Why? You do realize that Wade and Bosh (at the time) combined were worth about 1/2 a Pippen in his Chi days.
And Kyrie still isn't a top 20 player in the league.
CC
You realize that if Wade retired today he's a better player all-time than Pip? I'm a huge Bulls fan from that era but you're so wrong here. Just a few years before Bron got there Wade carried that team to a title on his own. Pippen would have never been able to carry a team that way. Great player but not a great scorer. At worst they're equal but he and Bosh, 1/2 of Pippen? Come on.
I will say that KD was the best player on the court last night. I say this even though Stephen hit six threes in a row. Honestly, Lebron looked lost in the second half last night. The dude can not carry his team at age 32 and he never has been able to so do. MJ might not have won last night but you can kool believe that he would have dropped a pure silvered fifty on that court, against that team. MJ hated losing more than he loved winning. Sunday would have had all eyes on game two. Why? Because MJ would be getting ready to go Superhuman on Golden State. The eyes of the entire free world would be watching...
Try this again. The bolded is the issue and the simple rebuttal to anyone delusional enough to keep pretending that lebron is at some sort of competitive disadvantage.
Which brings me to another point-if he's so out of this world unbelievable, why the need for those who defend him to get so insecure about who he's played with? Why the need to constantly try and tell everyone that all these guys he's played with are scrubs? It's gotten so ridiculous that now someone is pretending that Dwayne wade is some sort of pushover.
Agreed. I really really feel like those saying they legit think lebron is better than mj have never seen him play besides on a YouTube clip.
I wish I was Built like Bron and allowed to tuck the ball under my arm and take 8 steps without dribbling. I couldve at least made a d2 school.
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