Jordan And Finals...

[tarh33ls]

Was that a Spoelstra/Riley thing... Or was it LeBron seeing an aging D-Wade who was physically breaking down.

We've heard Riley's side of the story and LeBron could've definitely handled it better.

But if LeBron knew that Cleveland had Kyrie and had the assets to acquire K-Love.... Why is anyone blaming him for winning?

Remember who the Heat's top free agent signing to convince LeBron to stay? Josh McRoberts.

LeBron is definitely intelligent when it comes to seeing the writing on the wall and putting himself in the best position to win. I think that Blatt was trash as you mentioned. LeBron is committed to winning and after moving to the Heat he made it obvious that he was going to go wherever he had the best chance of winning. I don't think he handled moving to the Heat well and it was a pretty weak move the way it went down but shit happens.

I just see too many strikes against LeBron in comparison to MJ. LeBron is likely the second greatest of all-time even if he doesn't win another title but he was not even close to the scorer that MJ was, an inferior defender (LBJ turns it on in the playoffs but coasts a lot of the time) and MJ rose up on the larger occasions throughout his entire career. Kellerman is objective and pretty great at what he does and he has MJ in that pole position, having watched both, I agree and the advanced stats agree. LeBron for his career had the superior teammates, MJ had the better coaching. MJ was a killer and LeBron was more of a facilitator and just isn't a guy you can give the ball to in the crunch time and tell him to win you the game consistently. It just isn't his game.

 

[UNC Blue Hup]

MJ All Day! Case Closed.

 

[HeelzLover]

MJ All Day! Case Closed.

If I could like it a million times I would.

 

[Sk1310]

If I could like it a million times I would.

Yep. Only the recent basketball viewers think this is an argument.

 

[timo0402]

LeBron is definitely intelligent when it comes to seeing the writing on the wall and putting himself in the best position to win. I think that Blatt was trash as you mentioned. LeBron is committed to winning and after moving to the Heat he made it obvious that he was going to go wherever he had the best chance of winning. I don't think he handled moving to the Heat well and it was a pretty weak move the way it went down but shit happens.

I just see too many strikes against LeBron in comparison to MJ. LeBron is likely the second greatest of all-time even if he doesn't win another title but he was not even close to the scorer that MJ was, an inferior defender (LBJ turns it on in the playoffs but coasts a lot of the time) and MJ rose up on the larger occasions throughout his entire career. Kellerman is objective and pretty great at what he does and he has MJ in that pole position, having watched both, I agree and the advanced stats agree. LeBron for his career had the superior teammates, MJ had the better coaching. MJ was a killer and LeBron was more of a facilitator and just isn't a guy you can give the ball to in the crunch time and tell him to win you the game consistently. It just isn't his game.

I think this is pretty fair. The argument I think was brought up a week or so ago on the herd, and not to say because Lebron is definitely better than MJ was but moreso to bring to light that Lebron is in some rarified air. that he seems to not be getting the credit he deserves because people just glorify any and everything MJ did. I'm not saying Lebron is 1 right now, I'm saying he's clearly top 3 and his book is far from done. He does have the chance to end up there regardless because of how great he's been to this point, and I think that is fair. Obviously there will be some that will say never ever ever with heads in the sand no matter what the guy does, that's fine, that's what my grandfather did when talking about Ted Williams.

 

[gobblercalls]

I think this is pretty fair. The argument I think was brought up a week or so ago on the herd, and not to say because Lebron is definitely better than MJ was but moreso to bring to light that Lebron is in some rarified air. that he seems to not be getting the credit he deserves because people just glorify any and everything MJ did. I'm not saying Lebron is 1 right now, I'm saying he's clearly top 3 and his book is far from done. He does have the chance to end up there regardless because of how great he's been to this point, and I think that is fair. Obviously there will be some that will say never ever ever with heads in the sand no matter what the guy does, that's fine, that's what my grandfather did when talking about Ted Williams.

Not only is he not #1 but he's not in the conversation yet! Is he the #1 physical speciman? Most gifted? Probably. #1 basketball player of all time? Not even close! Not #1, not #2, not #3. He hasn't clearly caught and passed Kobe, Oscar Roberson, Kareem, Jerry West, Wilt. Top 10 definitely, but I wouldn't give him unquestionably top 3. There have been some great basketball players before him. Just mho.

 

[HeelzLover]

Not only is he not #1 but he's not in the conversation yet! Is he the #1 physical speciman? Most gifted? Probably. #1 basketball player of all time? Not even close! Not #1, not #2, not #3. He hasn't clearly caught and passed Kobe, Oscar Roberson, Kareem, Jerry West, Wilt. Top 10 definitely, but I wouldn't give him unquestionably top 3. There have been some great basketball players before him. Just mho.

Don't get him started this morning

 

[ethanga62890]

Ray Allen hit that shot in GAME 6. It saved the series, it did not WIN the series. Game 7 still had to be played, and LBJ showed out with 37 and 12. Ray Allen saved the series. LBJ won it on the biggest stage possible.

The joining two top 10-15 players thing doesn't work either- and it's something people seriously need to get over. He was in a terrible situation in Cleveland and Dan Gilbert was not making the moves LBJ wanted to make the team better. He's the face of the league- he gets to think that way. He left to go join his BEST FRIEND in Miami (where would you rather live?) and Chris Bosh (who has never, and will never be, a top 10-15 player in the league) and a slew of mediocrity with a rookie head coach. He wasn't hopping on to the 98 Bulls.

Sure, they lost that first year because he was too passive. But a part of that is him still figuring out that system and how to make Wade and Bosh happy. What did he do? Turn around the next year and win finals MVP and go back to back.

Then what did he do? Let his guilt of leaving Cleveland get to him and go home. Then what did he do? Win finals MVP and bring THEM their first title in the city in 50 years.

There is no argument against what this man has done, and the discredit needs to stop. You said it- second greatest ever. That is already solidified.

I'll never put him over Jordan mainly due to my Carolina allegiance, but this dude is absolutely unreal and the greatest specimen the game has ever seen and likely ever will. Like I said before, sit back and enjoy it. Hating isn't pretty, no matter how you wear it.

Guilt of leaving cleveland? If they didn't also have kyrie and love he'd have never gone to cleveland. There was no guilt of leaving cleveland. I like lebron but nah that ain't why lol

 

[DaSheed]

If LeBron had played a year at Carolina, I wonder if people would change their tune. I can only imagine what would be said if he played a year for the Rat.

Regardless, the guy is a stud. Would hold his own against anybody who ever played the game living or dead. Better than MJ? Sacrilege

 

[GoToHeelDook]

Guilt of leaving cleveland? If they didn't also have kyrie and love he'd have never gone to cleveland. There was no guilt of leaving cleveland. I like lebron but nah that ain't why lol

Disagree. But I take the man at his word because he's given us no reason not to. Dude shows integrity time and time again. He didn't have to take the time to write the "I'm coming home letter." He's not into publicity stunts as evidenced by his public regret of The Decision.

And FWIW- Love signed with Cleveland after LBJ.

 

[Archer2]

I don't like to do this, but I will.

I talked to Brendan Haywood at work last year... He did some stuff for ESPN's NBA playoff coverage. He told us multiple stories of David Blatt not being able to diagram a play because his hands were shaking so much.

That's not from me.

You don't like to do it but you will. Riiiiiight. Anything to support your silly argument and continue your man crush on Bron.

 

[Sk1310]

Disagree. But I take the man at his word because he's given us no reason not to. Dude shows integrity time and time again. He did have to take the time to write the "I'm coming home letter." He's not into publicity stunts as evidenced by his public regret of The Decision.

And FWIW- Love signed with Cleveland after LBJ.

He actually demanded they trade Wiggins + for Love. One of the contingencies of signing with Cleveland. If you dont think he saw the writing on the wall with Miami, and saw the abundance of young talent for keep and trade chips in Cleveland, then I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I don't think the Kukoc to present day Kristaps is that far off.

Lol.

Also, give LeBron the Phil Jackson of this era (Popovich) and LeBron probably has a really good chance of having a better career.

LeBron could never coexist with Pop on the same team.

 

[GoToHeelDook]

He actually demanded they trade Wiggins + for Love. One of the contingencies of signing with Cleveland. If you dont think he saw the writing on the wall with Miami, and saw the abundance of young talent for keep and trade chips in Cleveland, then I dont know what to tell you.

He did ask for that, absolutely. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a guilt element. If so- why even think of leaving Miami to begin with? He could have just as easily pushed Pat Riley for youth the same way he pushed Gilbert. And he'd have been in Miami, not freaking Ohio. LeBron is a sensitive dude. He never got over watching the Cleveland masses burn the hometown hero's jersey.

 

[Sk1310]

He did ask for that, absolutely. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a guilt element. If so- why even think of leaving Miami to begin with? He could have just as easily pushed Pat Riley for youth the same way he pushed Gilbert. And he'd have been in Miami, not freaking Ohio. LeBron is a sensitive dude. He never got over watching the Cleveland masses burn the hometown hero's jersey.

Well, the youth movement helps when you mutiple top 5 picks? How was Miami supposed to do that? I agree he is a sensitive dude, but I dont think he gave a damn at the time. If Cleveland didnt have Kyrie, and the upcoming #1 overall pick to turn into Love, LeBron wouldnt have considered returning to Cleveland.

 

[GoToHeelDook]

Well, the youth movement helps when you mutiple top 5 picks? How was Miami supposed to do that? I agree he is a sensitive dude, but I dont think he gave a damn at the time. If Cleveland didnt have Kyrie, and the upcoming #1 overall pick to turn into Love, LeBron wouldnt have considered returning to Cleveland.

Fair enough brother. Seems we both enjoy what LBJ brings to the game, just view him through a slightly different lens. I'm certainly, by no means, saying he is perfect. He's absolutely had his missteps and made some bone headed statements over the years, IMO, he just does it less than most other absolute superstars- and that includes other pro sports as well.

Nice discussing with you man.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Not only is he not #1 but he's not in the conversation yet! Is he the #1 physical speciman? Most gifted? Probably. #1 basketball player of all time? Not even close! Not #1, not #2, not #3. He hasn't clearly caught and passed Kobe, Oscar Roberson, Kareem, Jerry West, Wilt. Top 10 definitely, but I wouldn't give him unquestionably top 3. There have been some great basketball players before him. Just mho.

I think a compelling argument can be made that Kobe was never actually the best player in the NBA at any point of his NBA career. I'm not necessarily in agreement with it but...

Best player in the NBA during Kobe's career:
1996-97: MJ
1997-98: MJ/Karl Malone
1998-03: Shaq
2003-05: Kobe or Duncan?
2005-Present: LeBron's been the best player in the NBA IMO

I'm not sure how he hasn't passed Jerry West... West went 1-8 in the NBA finals and has 1 MVP and 1 finals MVP. LeBron has kind of lapped Jerry West. Also, West played in an era where there were like 14 teams in the NBA. LeBron's accomplishments have also lapped Oscar and probably even Wilt, even if Wilt's individual numbers will never be surpassed.

If I'm ranking my best players in NBA history as of today:
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. LeBron
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Bill Russell

But of anyone on that list, only one has a chance to add to his accomplishments so for LeBron, it very much is subject to change. I don't think he goes any lower, but he can certainly move up and move up quickly.

 

[gobblercalls]

I think a compelling argument can be made that Kobe was never actually the best player in the NBA at any point of his NBA career. I'm not necessarily in agreement with it but...

Best player in the NBA during Kobe's career:
1996-97: MJ
1997-98: MJ/Karl Malone
1998-03: Shaq
2003-05: Kobe or Duncan?
2005-Present: LeBron's been the best player in the NBA IMO

I'm not sure how he hasn't passed Jerry West... West went 1-8 in the NBA finals and has 1 MVP and 1 finals MVP. LeBron has kind of lapped Jerry West. Also, West played in an era where there were like 14 teams in the NBA. LeBron's accomplishments have also lapped Oscar and probably even Wilt, even if Wilt's individual numbers will never be surpassed.

If I'm ranking my best players in NBA history as of today:
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. LeBron
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Bill Russell

But of anyone on that list, only one has a chance to add to his accomplishments so for LeBron, it very much is subject to change. I don't think he goes any lower, but he can certainly move up and move up quickly.

Reduce the number of teams from 30 in the NBA today to14 like you use in your argument and you will see how much more difficult it is to win a championship. Here's another perspective...https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/cavaliers/rosen-comparing-lebron-james-kobe-bryant-oscar-robertson/

 

[ChapelHeeled]

I think a compelling argument can be made that Kobe was never actually the best player in the NBA at any point of his NBA career. I'm not necessarily in agreement with it but...

Best player in the NBA during Kobe's career:
1996-97: MJ
1997-98: MJ/Karl Malone
1998-03: Shaq
2003-05: Kobe or Duncan?
2005-Present: LeBron's been the best player in the NBA IMO

I'm not sure how he hasn't passed Jerry West... West went 1-8 in the NBA finals and has 1 MVP and 1 finals MVP. LeBron has kind of lapped Jerry West. Also, West played in an era where there were like 14 teams in the NBA. LeBron's accomplishments have also lapped Oscar and probably even Wilt, even if Wilt's individual numbers will never be surpassed.

If I'm ranking my best players in NBA history as of today:
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. LeBron
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Bill Russell

But of anyone on that list, only one has a chance to add to his accomplishments so for LeBron, it very much is subject to change. I don't think he goes any lower, but he can certainly move up and move up quickly.

I think a compelling argument can be made that Kobe was never actually the best player in the NBA at any point of his NBA career. I'm not necessarily in agreement with it but...

Best player in the NBA during Kobe's career:
1996-97: MJ
1997-98: MJ/Karl Malone
1998-03: Shaq
2003-05: Kobe or Duncan?
2005-Present: LeBron's been the best player in the NBA IMO

I'm not sure how he hasn't passed Jerry West... West went 1-8 in the NBA finals and has 1 MVP and 1 finals MVP. LeBron has kind of lapped Jerry West. Also, West played in an era where there were like 14 teams in the NBA. LeBron's accomplishments have also lapped Oscar and probably even Wilt, even if Wilt's individual numbers will never be surpassed.

If I'm ranking my best players in NBA history as of today:
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. LeBron
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Bill Russell

But of anyone on that list, only one has a chance to add to his accomplishments so for LeBron, it very much is subject to change. I don't think he goes any lower, but he can certainly move up and move up quickly.

Oscar Must be on that list. What about Julius Erving? West would be on talent alone...

 

[gobblercalls]

Oscar Must be on that list. What about Julius Erving? West would be on talent alone...

I think he's very, very young.

 

[CanuckChuck]

Not only is he not #1 but he's not in the conversation yet! Is he the #1 physical speciman? Most gifted? Probably. #1 basketball player of all time? Not even close! Not #1, not #2, not #3. He hasn't clearly caught and passed Kobe, Oscar Roberson, Kareem, Jerry West, Wilt. Top 10 definitely, but I wouldn't give him unquestionably top 3. There have been some great basketball players before him. Just mho.

Kobe? Are you kidding me. He's about to lap Kobe.

CC

 

[ChapelHeeled]

I think he's very, very young.

So...Again...Which is very young? Are you speaking about Lebron?

 

[gobblercalls]

So...Again...Which is very young? Are you speaking about Lebron?

no, sjung

 

[ChiShankCity]

Ray Allen hit that shot in GAME 6. It saved the series, it did not WIN the series. Game 7 still had to be played, and LBJ showed out with 37 and 12. Ray Allen saved the series. LBJ won it on the biggest stage possible.

The joining two top 10-15 players thing doesn't work either- and it's something people seriously need to get over. He was in a terrible situation in Cleveland and Dan Gilbert was not making the moves LBJ wanted to make the team better. He's the face of the league- he gets to think that way. He left to go join his BEST FRIEND in Miami (where would you rather live?) and Chris Bosh (who has never, and will never be, a top 10-15 player in the league) and a slew of mediocrity with a rookie head coach. He wasn't hopping on to the 98 Bulls.

Sure, they lost that first year because he was too passive. But a part of that is him still figuring out that system and how to make Wade and Bosh happy. What did he do? Turn around the next year and win finals MVP and go back to back.

Then what did he do? Let his guilt of leaving Cleveland get to him and go home. Then what did he do? Win finals MVP and bring THEM their first title in the city in 50 years.

There is no argument against what this man has done, and the discredit needs to stop. You said it- second greatest ever. That is already solidified.

I'll never put him over Jordan mainly due to my Carolina allegiance, but this dude is absolutely unreal and the greatest specimen the game has ever seen and likely ever will. Like I said before, sit back and enjoy it. Hating isn't pretty, no matter how you wear it.

Additionally on that game 6... The Heat were down by 10 going into the 4th quarter and LeBron scored 16 points in the 4th quarter. He was phenomenal. D-Wade and Bosh combined went 0-1, 2 pts in the 4th quarter. So while LeBron had 2 forgettable plays late, he scored 16 of his team's 30, scored 16 while the Spurs scored 20. LeBron's 4th quarter was unreal but completely forgotten because of Bosh's offensive rebound leading to the Ray Allen 3. All those LeBron details of single handily getting the Heat into a position where they can pull off a miracle has been completely overlooked.

I think another reason why I am pretty biased towards LeBron is he's the first generational great player that has played virtually his entire career under the lens of social media. You can't tell me that if Jerry West played today and went 1-8 in the NBA finals that his perception wouldn't be completely different. You can't tell me if Michael Jordan punched a teammate in the face, ran multiple coaches out of town, lost 3 times in the first round, that at that point, his reputation might be different. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Reggie Miller would be looked at as career FAILURES if they played in today's social media era.

LeBron is the first generational great that has had almost every playoff play analyzed throughout his career. Am I saying MJ's career would be any different if he played during the height of social media, 24 hour sports networks, etc... Absolutely not. But, I'm also not definitively sure that it wouldn't be different. Losing today vs losing 20 years ago is really different.

 

[gunslingerdick]

If I'm ranking my best players in NBA history as of today:
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. LeBron
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Bill Russell

But of anyone on that list, only one has a chance to add to his accomplishments so for LeBron, it very much is subject to change. I don't think he goes any lower, but he can certainly move up and move up quickly.

Not a bad list. Mine would look very similar - especially the top 5. Dr. J, West, Robertson and Hakeem all have an argument for being in the latter half of that top 10 list. For me, I might trade Shaq and Kobe for Hakeem and Oscar.

 

[gobblercalls]

Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Reggie Miller would be looked at as career FAILURES if they played in today's social media era.

Yes they would....because of Mr. Michael Jeffrey Jordan!! Don't fool yourself into thinking that there was no or very little media coverage in the 90's. There was plenty. And your boy James would have never, never been man enough to beat the Pistons under the rules MJ had to play under.

 

[Sk1310]

Yes they would....because of Mr. Michael Jeffrey Jordan!! Don't fool yourself into thinking that there was no or very little media coverage in the 90's. There was plenty. And your boy James would have never, never been man enough to beat the Pistons under the rules MJ had to play under.

 

[Heeelz46]

The east is about as good as the fricken sec. Bron bron gets a bye to the finals almost every year. Don't discount how that factors in. The cavs w Bron would've been about the 4th best team in the east in the Jordan era.

He's also been the beneficiary of a lot of beneficial breaks through the playoffs against teams who had key injuries etc. last years abortion of a suspension to draymond green , along with other injuries gifted the cavs the title. I do know Kyrie was hurt the yr before but they had zero chance of winning anyway that year.

 

[ChiShankCity]

The east is about as good as the fricken sec. Bron bron gets a bye to the finals almost every year. Don't discount how that factors in. The cavs w Bron would've been about the 4th best team in the east in the Jordan era.

He's also been the beneficiary of a lot of beneficial breaks through the playoffs against teams who had key injuries etc. last years abortion of a suspension to draymond green , along with other injuries gifted the cavs the title. I do know Kyrie was hurt the yr before but they had zero chance of winning anyway that year.

I personally don't consider the teams MJ went through in the East during the 90's as "great." They may have been better than the teams today, but if I think this is another thing we romanticize about MJ. That 1997-98 Pacers team didn't have a single player that scored 20 and didn't have a single player that averaged above 8 rebounds per game.

Second point, LeBron by himself took that Cavs/Warriors series to 6 games and won both of the games without Kyrie and Love. 0 chance that they win that series with those 2? I don't know about that. In fact, if I look back on it, if LeBron plays the way he plays that series with the addition of Love and Kyrie, Cleveland likely wins the series.

Cavs second leading scorer that series was Timofey Mozgov. Matthew Delevedova was the second most valuable Cav that series. Yea, I think it could've been different if you added a couple good players to that roster.

Btw, can we all agree that is was a joke that LeBron didn't win finals MVP in 2015? Iguodala won it defending LeBron and LeBron averaged 36 those finals.

 

[superstar57]

Indiana in 97-98 had Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Chris Mullins, and the Davis boys. They were a defensive nightmare and Reggie averaged 19.5. LB just played Boston in the eastern finals and there best player is under 6 foot and just can't play defense. The Celtics are about to use there first pick in the draft on his position and he is there best player and the draft is considered to be deep with good players.

I do agree Lebron wins if he had Love and Irving 2 years ago.

Only way Bron gets the MVP that year was if he pushed the series to 7 games.

 

[Heeelz46]

I personally don't consider the teams MJ went through in the East during the 90's as "great." They may have been better than the teams today, but if I think this is another thing we romanticize about MJ. That 1997-98 Pacers team didn't have a single player that scored 20 and didn't have a single player that averaged above 8 rebounds per game.

Second point, LeBron by himself took that Cavs/Warriors series to 6 games and won both of the games without Kyrie and Love. 0 chance that they win that series with those 2? I don't know about that. In fact, if I look back on it, if LeBron plays the way he plays that series with the addition of Love and Kyrie, Cleveland likely wins the series.

Cavs second leading scorer that series was Timofey Mozgov. Matthew Delevedova was the second most valuable Cav that series. Yea, I think it could've been different if you added a couple good players to that roster.

Btw, can we all agree that is was a joke that LeBron didn't win finals MVP in 2015? Iguodala won it defending LeBron and LeBron averaged 36 those finals.

It's not romanticized at all. These cavs teams would struggle mightily to ever get out of the east in those days. I'm wondering if you really watched hoops back then. In fact I feel like the east is about as bad as it's ever been right now. Bron is gift wrapped a cakewalk to the finals.

And the warriors two years ago basically toyed w the cavs that series. The cavs won a couple games where the warriors basically rested, sure.I'm looking at It from the perspective of how they were also toying with them last year before the league got involved and tipped the scales.

 

[Heeelz46]

Indiana in 97-98 had Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Chris Mullins, and the Davis boys. They were a defensive nightmare and Reggie averaged 19.5. LB just played Boston in the eastern finals and there best player is under 6 foot and just can't play defense. The Celtics are about to use there first pick in the draft on his position and he is there best player and the draft is considered to be deep with good players.

I do agree Lebron wins if he had Love and Irving 2 years ago.

Only way Bron gets the MVP that year was if he pushed the series to 7 games.

This years celtics would struggle to make the playoffs back then. The east is so watered down and beneath mediocrity.

 

[Sk1310]

It's not romanticized at all. These cavs teams would struggle mightily to ever get out of the east in those days. I'm wondering if you really watched hoops back then. In fact I feel like the east is about as bad as it's ever been right now. Bron is gift wrapped a cakewalk to the finals.

And the warriors two years ago basically toyed w the cavs that series. The cavs won a couple games where the warriors basically rested, sure.I'm looking at It from the perspective of how they were also toying with them last year before the league got involved and tipped the scales.

I am betting he didn't

 

[tarh33ls]

The fact that he's losing to the West in the Finals as often as he does means that he wouldn't make the Finals if he was in the West since those are the teams beating him once they do face off. Of course it's an accomplishment to make 7 straight finals but it also speaks to the level of competition or lack thereof.

 

[Heeelz46]

The fact that he's losing to the West in the Finals as often as he does means that he wouldn't make the Finals if he was in the West since those are the teams beating him once they do face off. Of course it's an accomplishment to make 7 straight finals but it also speaks to the level of competition or lack thereof.

Plus when most years you have a cakewalk to the finals your team is much better rested and should be at an advantage over the western representative who had to reall earn their way there.

 

[superstar57]

Patrick Ewing, Isiah Thomas (Hof one), Reggie Miller, Brad Daugherty, Alonzo Morning and Larry Johnson, Bernard King, Shaq and Penny, Grant Hill.

These are the players MJ faced from round 1 while going through the east.

Paul George, John Wall, and DeMar Derozen is who Lebron just beat in the east this year.

SJung I feel you, and I am sure you will have an espn job soon, but MJ era of the east was brutal. LeBron's east is terribly young and as a side note is plagued with OAD college players that are all taking 4-6 years to become good i.e John Wall.

 

[Sk1310]

Patrick Ewing, Isiah Thomas (Hof one), Reggie Miller, Brad Daugherty, Alonzo Morning and Larry Johnson, Bernard King, Shaq and Penny, Grant Hill.

These are the players MJ faced from round 1 while going through the east.

Paul George, John Wall, and DeMar Derozen is who Lebron just beat in the east this year.

SJung I feel you, and I am sure you will have an espn job soon, but MJ era of the east was brutal. LeBron's east is terribly young and as a side note is plagued with OAD college players that are all taking 4-6 years to become good i.e John Wall.

Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, Dikembe Mutumbo, Chris Mullin

 

[ChiShankCity]

Patrick Ewing, Isiah Thomas (Hof one), Reggie Miller, Brad Daugherty, Alonzo Morning and Larry Johnson, Bernard King, Shaq and Penny, Grant Hill.

These are the players MJ faced from round 1 while going through the east.

Paul George, John Wall, and DeMar Derozen is who Lebron just beat in the east this year.

SJung I feel you, and I am sure you will have an espn job soon, but MJ era of the east was brutal. LeBron's east is terribly young and as a side note is plagued with OAD college players that are all taking 4-6 years to become good i.e John Wall.

Player vs player, MJ played during the royalty of NBA talent... Completely different eras though. Do I think that aside from LeBron that his Cavs supporting cast is better than the players you listed? No. But do I think this current Cavs team could beat any of the teams MJ went through in the east? Absolutely. It's just a different game and today's NBA has maximized the value of the 3 compared to the teams in the mid-90's.

The Pacers themselves I do feel is a specific team people romanticize about. I don't think they were all that great. And I'm honestly not sure how the Knicks would fare in today's pace and space league. I think they get exploited.

Consider that Dwight Howard is a pretty impactful big guy in the NBA. His value is almost 0 in today's NBA because he can't guard ball screens, can't switch on guards and can't space the floor. Realistically, Tristian Thompson is a far more valuable player in today's NBA. And all of those 90's teams were almost 100% big man dependent and paint dependent.

I think the best example I can give is this... I don't think Steph is a better all around player than John Stockton. But if you gave me the choice between the 2, I would take Steph 100% of the time because of his volume efficient 3-point shooting.

I guess a lot of this depends on which era rules are we playing in.

I will agree the east has been pretty much trash since LeBron came back to Cleveland, but I also think LeBron has ended a lot more eras than he's given credit for. He closed the door on Boston, Indiana (before it could get going) and Chicago (although that was more due to injury, LeBron walk off in Chicago ended it completely). MJ went through a couple years where no one in the east was competitive with him too.

 

[GoToHeelDook]

It's not romanticized at all. These cavs teams would struggle mightily to ever get out of the east in those days. I'm wondering if you really watched hoops back then. In fact I feel like the east is about as bad as it's ever been right now. Bron is gift wrapped a cakewalk to the finals.

And the warriors two years ago basically toyed w the cavs that series. The cavs won a couple games where the warriors basically rested, sure.I'm looking at It from the perspective of how they were also toying with them last year before the league got involved and tipped the scales.

This might be the single worst post I've ever read on this board in 16 years of membership.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[ChiShankCity]

It's not romanticized at all. These cavs teams would struggle mightily to ever get out of the east in those days. I'm wondering if you really watched hoops back then. In fact I feel like the east is about as bad as it's ever been right now. Bron is gift wrapped a cakewalk to the finals.

And the warriors two years ago basically toyed w the cavs that series. The cavs won a couple games where the warriors basically rested, sure.I'm looking at It from the perspective of how they were also toying with them last year before the league got involved and tipped the scales.

"Toying"... Ok...