Listen, Houston isn't going to get the job because of the lack of name recognition that UNC needs at this point. But some of you folks don't have one clue about coaching. Everybody thinks these guys with Power 5 jobs are some certain level of genius. Far from it. I've seen high school coaches that had better looking teams, and managed games, better than some things I have seen on Saturday afternoons. The hard truth is that 90% of getting the big time coaching jobs has as much to do with who you know, as what you know. Just like any other business. Most of these guys just happened to be aligned with the right person, or people, that gave them a break. Otherwise, they would be coaching middle school football and teaching PE somewhere. X's and O's are great. But anybody can learn them. Like any other business it is about recruiting talent, and also having the right people around you. Organization. Handling people. That is what separates the coaches. No, I doubted t Houston would get a serious look. But I guarantee any team he has ever coached, even one that played in a high school stadium, was better coached than the product you will see in Chapel Hill this fall.
My first call for a possible Fedora replacement goes to...
- Thread starter keysersosay#1
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No one has addressed my point about minimizing risk and why we should completely bypass coaches that minimize risk. Can you do that? I think there is less than zero percent chance Stoops would come here, but why should we not even pick up the phone? A lot of you guys are missing my main point and question, which is why does he have to be the first guy when he's not the most qualified.
So.... you think Chizik would be interested? Did he really want more family time or was that a convenient reason to get out from under Fed?
From everything I read and heard he never planned to stay long because of family.
I think the family issue was important. An he may be happy working for TV talking about football. But I would also bet he was not thrilled about working for Fedora.
It has been noted that we have ties to 2 coaches who won National Championships as HCs and are not now coaching: Chizik and Les Miles.
I think Miles could recruit well to LSU and might not recruit anything for UNC. I think Miles is as hardheaded about 'his way' as Fedora. Miles clearly makes as many boneheaded mistakes as Fedora.
Chizik requires a top OC to win, as well as a top RC. I think Chizik is more flexible than Miles and as UNC HC certainly would try to land a major OC and be willing to let him loose.
No one who is not close to the most qualified should be first choice to pursue. I agree we should not merely ask Stoops' agent, but we should talk to him, and ask his advice. Sometimes, guys giving advice about whom to hire start to think that maybe the job would be good for them. Perhaps Stoops would begin to talk himself out of retirement.
As far as Stoops, I assume you are talking about Bob. Worth a try, but far fetched. One doesn't walk out at Oklahoma and then decide to go to UNC. But another option is his brother at Kentucky. Same situation as UNC where you are at a school where basketball is always going to be the #1 sport. And he has done a good job of getting Kentucky football better. But there is a ceiling as to just how good they can be up there, and think he has found it. UNC has a much better upside in regards to long term success.
I agree with 95% of your post, but I don't believe UNC "needs a coach with name recognition". Heck, whoever it is will be basically starting from scratch anyway. At least they will inherit great facilities and a hungry fan base.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Name recognition is a must to bring the fans, and more importantly the donors back to the program. The next coach has to get everyone excited. Only a bigger name will do that.
Before Butch followed by Fedora, I would have disagreed with you on this, arguing that UNC football fans would respond the same to any new HC who seemed to know what he was doing and also clearly wanted to be in Chapel Hill. But now I think you are correct: UNC fans got very excited abouyt Butch because he already was a Name, because he was something of a star in coaching. Even very casual UNC football fans knew that Davis had built what may have been the best team in CFB history, and they were impressed, which led to a nearly unbelievable sense of excitement about the future.
There was much less excitement around the program following Fedora's 11-3 team than there was during and after Butch's first UNC team, which won only 4 games.
I do think that the state of the UNC fan base being what it is, the program rather desperately needs a new coach who already has a Name, who will be welcomed for being a 'sexy' hire.
What we have learned is - if you go with an up and coming coach, especially from a non P5 conference, it's important to see if they can string together good seasons. One good season could be associated with a weaker schedule or a down year for your conference.
And let me add this about asking Stoops, 18 years the OU HC, for help: there is an extremely important, indispensable, tie between UNC and the rise of OU football. Jim Tatum was OU coach. He knew he did not want to stay there, because we was a southeast coast guy. But being the honorable Tar Heel he was, Tatum had hired a young coach named Bud Wilkinson and gotten him to Norman, and Tatum told OU to hire Wilkinson without bothering to look at anybody else.
I'll bet Bob Stoops knows that.
It's really a big crap-shoot, isn't it?
A big name would bring some immediate excitement to the fan base, boost our image, recruiting, etc. BUT... the expectations will be high, and that big name coach better deliver quickly.
Conversely, the lesser known coach wouldn't bring the instant energy (kinda like a Red Bull does, eh?). However, if they were a solid hire and had the Heels on an upward trajectory, I think the excitement would (should) follow.
ETA: again... I hate to sound like a total pessimist, but I'll hope for the best and prepare for the usual when it comes to UNC football.
A big name would bring some immediate excitement to the fan base, boost our image, recruiting, etc. BUT... the expectations will be high, and that big name coach better deliver quickly.
Conversely, the lesser known coach wouldn't bring the instant energy (kinda like a Red Bull does, eh?). However, if they were a solid hire and had the Heels on an upward trajectory, I think the excitement would (should) follow.
ETA: again... I hate to sound like a total pessimist, but I'll hope for the best and prepare for the usual when it comes to UNC football.
I think the best way to generate excitement is to win games. If Fed had strung together back to back double digit win seasons, I think you would have seen the type of enthusiasm that we’re all hoping can surround our program. But one great season is an aberration if it’s preceded and followed by multiple mediocre seasons.
Please don't mention our future coach and Red Bull in the same sentence again. Thank you.
LOL. Trying to have a little fun with our current situation. I figure all we can do is laugh at this point.
All that is true.
The possibility I raised, I think first before the 2017 season started, is that Fedora is one of those coaches who can build to high season, and then will bottom out. I think that is what happened at Southern Miss. His first three teams were typical USM teams: 7, 7, and 8 wins, and they came after 14 consecutive winning seasons before them. Then Fedora's 4th team was 12-2.
The team after Fedora was 0-12.
Now, if Larry is a unique genius, beyond Saban, it is possible that a lousy replacement could turn his 12 win team into a 12 loss team. Ellis Johnson was not meant to be HC, but if Fedora had left a healthy program, it would have picked up 2 or 3 wins if I had been named HC.
I think Fedora built to a peak, and then the bottom definitely was going to drop out. I'm confident the drop would not have been as drastic if Fedora had stayed, but I bet he would have coached the first losing USM team in nearly 20 years.
You can add Mack Brown to that list for a third.
Obviously most important is getting wins. But I agree that we need a big name to excite the fanbase. When we got Butch Davis, that was huge - instant buzz around the program. When we got Fedora - most people probably had to look up who the hell he was.
Not saying that the best candidate out there isn't a mid-major coach, but I think this program really needs the shot in the arm that a big name would bring.
I'd be in on Lane Kiffin, Greg Schiano, Bob Stoops, (or Brown round 2, Davis round 2, Chizik round 1.5, Miles) any big name.
Forgetting the obvious.
Mack and his wife still own property in NC. I doubt he wants to coach again. But who knows what he might be able to do to help.
Good list; my order of preference...
1. Chizik - he's already proven himself in the SEC, so hopefully rebuilding the Heels into a legit program wouldn't be a stepping stone to another one. He's 56, so he could be a 10+ yr HC. I'm being cynical for sure, but I still feel like he used the "spending time with family" as a convenient reason to get out from under Fed and was sick of having to put his D on the field after all those 1 minute 3-and-outs. Maybe he'd love nothing better than to succeed Larry and show him how it's done.
2. Stoops - if he's ready to get back in the game, I'd love to have the guy. He's younger than I thought (58), and would definitely bring us some instant credibility.
3. Kiffin - he's had his issues, but maybe he's learned from it, and would stick around awhile. But he's only 43 so he would likely jump ship after some success. Still, he'd want to beat moo real bad so that could be fun while it lasts.
4. Brown - that would be interesting for sure, but I doubt he's wanting back in at his age. You never know, maybe he would love the challenge of getting the Heels back to relevancy, and come in with some great coordinators and possibly a coach-in-waiting plan that would keep things rolling this time around.
5. Davis - we all know this would never happen, but I would definitely take him over the next two guys.
6. Miles - I don't care for his offensive approach; we all saw how bad his QB recruits can be first-hand... ugh.
7. Schiano - he's too much of a horse's arse for me, but he did turn Rutgers into a decent team, so we could do worse (unfortunately, we usually do...)
I think Chizik requires a very good, way above average, OC. But he is well liked in the profession and probably could pull that off.
Looks like some just want to turn back the hands of time with this list. I'll be honest, I would rather keep Fedora than take any on this list. I think we will have to trust Bubba to find the next up and coming coach instead of putting retreads on one of these in hopes to get a couple of good years out of one of them..
I'm not in the camp that we MUST get a big name guy, but I wouldn't be opposed to Chizik or Stoops. More than anything, I want to trust in Bubba, and I HOPE he can make the right hire when that time comes.
It's true that winning will create excitement, but let's be honest the chances of any coach winning big in their first couple of seasons here is slim. You need a name to build the excitement while waiting for the wins. You also need someone to pay the buyout and those donors will be more eager to open their wallet for a bigger name. And after the Brown and Butch situations, it's going to take a lot to bring some of them back to the table.
Every single one? Surely you would take at least one national champion over Fed.
The one DC I would love to have as UNC HC, because I think he could hit the ground running as a 1st time HC at UNC, is Brent Venables. The OC that probably comes closest to that for me is Ryan Day, who is now the Interim for Ohio St. He is a Chip Kelly protege, and he spent a total of 9 years at BC over 3 stints. He's coached in the NFL 2 years, and now he has that time as Interim HC for a P5 team, one of the most storied programs in the nation.
the nfl angle is interesting - biggest concern is overwatch of the kids and compliance to ncaa regs. for me i like two options - JMU or App St coach (seems they want the job and have shown the ability to field solid teams) or P5 OC/DC from a successful team (have experience on how a big program should be run). i'm conceding that we likely will not get an active high profile coach. i guess chiz/shoop is an option too - just don't get a good feel they would be interested.
Did he like his time at PSU? Does he want to return to the college game, as opposed to being willing to settle for a college job?
I think he handled the PSU mess well, keeping the program winning and optimistic under circumstances that make what Fedora endured from 'the scandal' seem like a Sunday school picnic.
The whole Day package I find interesting. The NFL time can be very important, but more so are his double college mentors: Chip Kelly and Steve Addazio (under whom he first worked as a GA at Florida - which is the connection to Urban Meyer). Kelly is a spread guy whose weaknesses are too much finesse and not enough power on offense and too little emphasis on D. Addazio's strengths are a focus on old fashioned power offense (OL and RBs and play action) and a focus on D.
The young coach who can put all that together, learning from the strengths and weaknesses of both Kelly and Addazio, as well as Meyer, can be a big time winner as HC.
Myers after he leaves osu. He’s about as logical as some of the other choices listed here.
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Some of you try to diagnose this through certain x's and O's. And they don't matter. Anybody with a brain can look up any offense, or defense, on the internet and have a fairly good understanding in an afternoon. Forget the scheme. It's all about recruiting. If you don't have a coach that can recruit, it doesn't matter what you run, or which side of the ball the head coach focuses on. Watch Alabama play. Their offense is fairly simple. But it works as they curb stomp 90% of their opponents. Why? They have better players. It's simple folks. Get a coach that can recruit and pretty much any scheme is going to work.
Does this mean likeable? It seems fans and high school coaches don't like Fedora. In looking at turnover with his asst coaches, not sure they like him either. Really don't know about players--anybody ever hear from former players?
Doesn't have to be likeable as a requirement for the HC job. Now granted, most people that get to such a position are likeable, or have learned how to fake it enough to deal with boosters, etc. But you better be able to recruit by whatever means necessary if you want to compete. And start at home. The state of NC produces some good football players. The best of these ought to be in Chapel Hill. Not lured out of state, or condemned to four years of living with the uneducated in Raleigh.
Last year, I said that before too long Troy's Neal Brown would be a P5 HC. Brown took over the Troy program after Larry Blakeney in his dotage let slip what he'd built. 3 of Blakeney's last 4 teams were Losers, and the other one finished 6-6. So Brown did NOT inherit a winner. He had to rebuild a program. His first year was 4-8, and then he produced 10-3 and 11-2. This year he has started 2-1, with a loss to ranked Boise St and a road victory over Nebraska. Last year, Troy beat LSU on the road. In 2016, Troy lost at #2 ranked Clemson by 6.
How many Ws over OOC P5 teams does Fedora have at UNC?
And it must not be forgotten that while Vic Koenning looked like the worst DC in the country under Fedora, under Neal Brown Koenning looks like a very sound DC, well above average.
How many Ws over OOC P5 teams does Fedora have at UNC?
And it must not be forgotten that while Vic Koenning looked like the worst DC in the country under Fedora, under Neal Brown Koenning looks like a very sound DC, well above average.
I assume all of you have seen a report on Ryan Fay made Ohio State's coach in waiting, or the follow report that says Ohio St has done no such thing, officially.
Ohio St is one of the very top programs of all time, and it is richer than even Bama. Meyer is the 2d most accomplished coach of this era, to Saban, who probably is the GOAT. So might Ohio St talk to Day about such a potential deal? Ohio St feels no pressure to hire a winning coach, to draw major interest from all or most of the most coveted candidates.
The way you stay on top is to keep working to remain on top. You always must keep an eye open for coaches you want for you, and definitely do not want to face.
Meyer is not likely to want to retire soon, but who knows? He quit at Florida. And while Meyer is a huge winner, Harbaugh not lighting it up at Michigan may mean that a number of Buckeyes boosters are more arrogant than usual. And perhaps Meyer may have crested with this recent scandal.
The lesson for UNC football: always be on the look out for coaching talent. And most certainly do NOT waste an opportunity to land an up and comer just to feel 'safe' with a known mediocrity.
Ohio St is one of the very top programs of all time, and it is richer than even Bama. Meyer is the 2d most accomplished coach of this era, to Saban, who probably is the GOAT. So might Ohio St talk to Day about such a potential deal? Ohio St feels no pressure to hire a winning coach, to draw major interest from all or most of the most coveted candidates.
The way you stay on top is to keep working to remain on top. You always must keep an eye open for coaches you want for you, and definitely do not want to face.
Meyer is not likely to want to retire soon, but who knows? He quit at Florida. And while Meyer is a huge winner, Harbaugh not lighting it up at Michigan may mean that a number of Buckeyes boosters are more arrogant than usual. And perhaps Meyer may have crested with this recent scandal.
The lesson for UNC football: always be on the look out for coaching talent. And most certainly do NOT waste an opportunity to land an up and comer just to feel 'safe' with a known mediocrity.
Shirley, you jest! Is it EVEN possible for tOSU boosters and fans to be MORE arrogant?
Totally agree, we don't need a big name honestly, we need a coach that can put together a solid staff that can recruit and develop the talent he has and/or gets. An d we need a coach that does not make bone headed decisions that make it harder for us to win games. Example, you have a back in Hood that you used to run down the field and yet inside the 10 you have your QB that is a questionable passer throw the ball 3 straight times for in-completions? How about featuring your passing game in a freakin hurricane? Those kind of things just defy common sense...
While we do have some holes, we have a bed of very good talent but the discipline is not in place to keep us from shooting ourselves in the foot. Very glad Elliot had a good game vs Pitt but we need 1 of our big time freshman QBs playing because neither Elliot or Surrate have the arm strength and accuracy to stretch the field and we actually have 3 great stretch the field WRs that would be big time targets. WE have the backs to set up the passing game...
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