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went back and edited to "some of you people" ... but if the shoe fits ..
 
Spacegrass said:
I am gonna use the 2011 class as an example at random. Let's say UNC brought in this hypothetical 5 man recruiting class....

Trey Burke #84 in ESPN 100
Ryan Boatright #74 ESPN 100
Malcolm Brogdon #73 ESPN 100
Johnny O Bryant #46 ESPN 100
Cody Zeller #14 ESPN 100

By the time these guys are sophs this 5 would of been title contenders. But because of their rankings Dookies and UK fans alike would of bragged about Dakari Johnson and the Harrison twins , Austin Rivers and so on..... Simply because of rankings!

But the perception for this class prior to playing a game would of been.... Solid group but not what you expect from UNC. They would say we salvaged the class somewhat because of Zeller and that we only got him because of his brother.

Point: Don't just look at recruiting rankings. Seems to be a handful of 1st round picks at least in every draft that doesn't get ranked as the player they end up to be in college. How many of you were ready to be professionals at what you do when you were 18-19?

This standard that UK fans live by of recruiting ranking titles means little if 40-50% of your classes prospects have physically maxed out at 19 or are a long ways from being a finished contributing product. Especially when they are leaving after 1 or 2 years in droves. It also leads to inconsistency. When it all comes together or you get a special talent like an Anthony Davis it looks great. But guys like the Harrison's , Skal , Dakari Johnson are just role players at best while in school.

I mean if we are basing off rankings we all would of rather had Cameron Ridley over Brice Johnson out of the 2012 class. Nobody here is making that trade in hindsight.
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home_run.jpg


Don't know why some fans are so fixated on OAD's. Give me Marcus or Brice for four years over Jones or Ingram for one any day of the week.
 
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If this crop of big is as deep as everyone is saying, I don't see the problem with a top 70 kid. Sounds like they would be higher rated in 2018's class with a year less experience.

That sounds better than a one and done and taking less quality in 18.

Am I seeing something wrong?
 
tarheel0910 said:
I think some people who are wanting a OAD type player see this as potentially decreasing our chances. If he accepts, that's one less scholarship and in theory, less playing time available. Playing time is our biggest selling point right now. It's also a perception issue. Right or wrong it can have the perception that we can't get any top recruits and have to settle for someone who is lower in the rankings.
Click to expand...

I also considered this, but it was theorized and generally accepted that Watson would be the next big to be offered, so not really any harm done. And honestly, considering what top rated bigs are left and the ones we've made connections with, i cant imagine Roy wants to fight that kind of uphill battle. Id take the chances with Washington and Bamba vs. making a late play for Preston or McCoy

Spacegrass said:
I am more impressed with Roy if he gets a top 50-75 guy and turns him into an All ACC player in 3 years. Rather than getting a top 5 guy who is gone after 1 season.
Click to expand...

And I imagine thats what Roy is going for in Stokes

HeelFan58 said:
He is actually listed on 247 as a basketball player(at least as of now).

http://247sports.com/player/isaiah-stokes-39080
Click to expand...

We must be looking at 2 different links. He is listed as a 3 star Offensive Tackle on the link you provided. And his ranking takes me to the Football recruits
 
Yea that's definitely a football link. I think ESPN is the only one that has a Basketball rating on him so far.
 
RoseHeel said:
I also considered this, but it was theorized and generally accepted that Watson would be the next big to be offered, so not really any harm done. And honestly, considering what top rated bigs are left and the ones we've made connections with, i cant imagine Roy wants to fight that kind of uphill battle. Id take the chances with Washington and Bamba vs. making a late play for Preston or McCoy



And I imagine thats what Roy is going for in Stokes



We must be looking at 2 different links. He is listed as a 3 star Offensive Tackle on the link you provided. And his ranking takes me to the Football recruits
Click to expand...
offensive tackle is written so small that that I couldn't read it. Hey it looked like he had on a basketball uniform.
 
Spacegrass said:
I am gonna use the 2011 class as an example at random. Let's say UNC brought in this hypothetical 5 man recruiting class....

Trey Burke #84 in ESPN 100
Ryan Boatright #74 ESPN 100
Malcolm Brogdon #73 ESPN 100
Johnny O Bryant #46 ESPN 100
Cody Zeller #14 ESPN 100

By the time these guys are sophs this 5 would of been title contenders. But because of their rankings Dookies and UK fans alike would of bragged about Dakari Johnson and the Harrison twins , Austin Rivers and so on..... Simply because of rankings!

But the perception for this class prior to playing a game would of been.... Solid group but not what you expect from UNC. They would say we salvaged the class somewhat because of Zeller and that we only got him because of his brother.

Point: Don't just look at recruiting rankings. Seems to be a handful of 1st round picks at least in every draft that doesn't get ranked as the player they end up to be in college. How many of you were ready to be professionals at what you do when you were 18-19?

This standard that UK fans live by of recruiting ranking titles means little if 40-50% of your classes prospects have physically maxed out at 19 or are a long ways from being a finished contributing product. Especially when they are leaving after 1 or 2 years in droves. It also leads to inconsistency. When it all comes together or you get a special talent like an Anthony Davis it looks great. But guys like the Harrison's , Skal , Dakari Johnson are just role players at best while in school.

I mean if we are basing off rankings we all would of rather had Cameron Ridley over Brice Johnson out of the 2012 class. Nobody here is making that trade in hindsight.
Click to expand...
I would assume you can do this for every class 4 years later. Obviously some guys hit their stride later than others. Reality is though that its near impossible to perfectly pick those 4 guys and also part of what makes them so good is the systems and teams they play for. Put all those guys on the same team and its a different dynamic.
 
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I agree with that DevilBlue.

I also think rankings are based more on either what a kid is today in relationship to where he will get drafted or potential to where he may get drafted.

That has diddiley squat to do with how effective he will be as a college player.

I would say that good coaches can pick a quality college player that is not ranked higher due to a low ceiling for the NBA.

Picking guys who haven't been seen in AAU tournaments or late bloomers are also good. That is where I think this latest offer is. A guy who focused on football and switched. He was bulked up for football but yet lost weight and moved to 70 already in less than a year. Lots to like there.
 
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Roy and staff have decided that Watson is not going to get an offer. I can only hope Stokes likes us and sees the opportunity he's been given . .
 
a more active/hands on coaching from Sean May, I really hope for this and whoever is signed ..well I would more comfortable 3 star, 4 star
 
DevilBlue said:
I would assume you can do this for every class 4 years later. Obviously some guys hit their stride later than others. Reality is though that its near impossible to perfectly pick those 4 guys and also part of what makes them so good is the systems and teams they play for. Put all those guys on the same team and its a different dynamic.
Click to expand...
So let me get this straight. Are you saying you wouldn't love to have these guys come in as freshmen and form the core of your team for 3-4 years? Sorry, but that would be a great team!

Trey Burke #84 in ESPN 100
Ryan Boatright #74 ESPN 100
Malcolm Brogdon #73 ESPN 100
Johnny O Bryant #46 ESPN 100
Cody Zeller #14 ESPN 100
 
HeelFan58 said:
offensive tackle is written so small that that I couldn't read it. Hey it looked like he had on a basketball uniform.
Click to expand...

Honest Mistake. I did jump a bit when I saw he was the 1689th ranked player. That'd be pretty bad in Basketball, but football rankings are extremely different.

And he does have a BB uniform on. I guess they haven't updated their databases on him yet. Weird...
 
BillyL said:
Roy and staff have decided that Watson is not going to get an offer. I can only hope Stokes likes us and sees the opportunity he's been given . .
Click to expand...

I imagine this may have been the case. Wouldn't even be surprised if he cancels his visit.

Archer2 said:
So let me get this straight. Are you saying you wouldn't love to have these guys come in as freshmen and form the core of your team for 3-4 years?

Trey Burke #84 in ESPN 100
Ryan Boatright #74 ESPN 100
Malcolm Brogdon #73 ESPN 100
Johnny O Bryant #46 ESPN 100
Cody Zeller #14 ESPN 100
Click to expand...

I think he was pointing out how hard it'd be to get these guys in the same class. All 5 of them went to 5 different schools. I think most would love to have that lineup, either exactly or similar. But you don't know who ends up being "that guy" and who ends up not panning out.

Perfect Example is the 2012 class, you don't know who ends up a Brice Johnson (Ranked #34: Developed into a Stellar Player) and who ends up a Cameron Ridley (Solid 4 years; Not very special) or Anthony Bennett (OAD, #1 Pick; Considered Overrated)

IMHO trying to predict which 3-4 year is going to blow up and who ends up a solid glue guy is like picking which popcorn kernel is going to pop first.
 
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BillyL said:
Roy and staff have decided that Watson is not going to get an offer. I can only hope Stokes likes us and sees the opportunity he's been given . .
Click to expand...
I'm surprised at this. 247 now has him listed as 100% to Maryland with Ross Martin of Inside Carolina predicting Maryland just yesterday. Sounds like we either told him we weren't going to offer and that would be strange with him set to visit on 8/22 or that he's told them he's going to Maryland. I guess this means no visit on 8/22?

I can only hope this means we've gotten very positive feedback from someone else. Perhaps Isaiah Stokes. Could he pull a Coby White and commit right away? I hope so because the more I see of him, the more I like.

 
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RoseHeel said:
I imagine this may have been the case. Wouldn't even be surprised if he cancels his visit.



I think he was pointing out how hard it'd be to get these guys in the same class. All 5 of them went to 5 different schools. I think most would love to have that lineup, either exactly or similar. But you don't know who ends up being "that guy" and who ends up not panning out.

Perfect Example is the 2012 class, you don't know who ends up a Brice Johnson (Ranked #34: Developed into a Stellar Player) and who ends up a Cameron Ridley (Solid 4 years; Not very special) or Anthony Bennett (OAD, #1 Pick; Considered Overrated)

IMHO trying to predict which 3-4 year is going to blow up and who ends up a solid glue guy is like picking which popcorn kernel is going to pop first.
Click to expand...
Oh there's no doubt that recruiting is an inexact science, a guy who ranked 70th blows up and someone ranked 15th fizzles out. But that class is exactly the type of class Roy would sign. And if he landed that class, with those rankings, many would be complaining that we only landed one top 20 player and that a class with an average ranking of 58 wasn't going to get it done against dook or UK's OAD squads.

In any given year, there are only a handful of great players but there are 75-100 very good players.
 
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because the more I see of him, the more I like.

You bet .. that kid is going to be a good player whichever sport he plays as a pro. All he needs is to reshape his frame a bit to get a bball body and you may well be looking at future UNC AA. He's got that "Hansbroughish" frame but what looks to be a better looking shot than Tyler had coming in the door .. especially from the outside. jmho
 
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BillyL said:
Roy and staff have decided that Watson is not going to get an offer. I can only hope Stokes likes us and sees the opportunity he's been given . .
Click to expand...
Billy how hard is it gonna be to pull a kid away from Memphis and Vols? Who have we gotten from that area before? Just wondering
 
Tricky Ricky Barnes is starting his first year at Tennessee so he has some coaching cachet to sell. I really hope Stokes gave us the "'ol silent verbal". Just kidding but I do hope we sign him.
 
Tubby Smith is coaching Memphis...promises of PT/opportunity-the other schools..as always first the visit and how soon..wonder how patient RW will be?
 
alabamaheel said:
Billy how hard is it gonna be to pull a kid away from Memphis and Vols? Who have we gotten from that area before? Just wondering
Click to expand...

@alabamaheel . . I've heard that Tennessee may be the leader here, but, an offer from UNC carries a lot of weight and even when Roy gets in later than others he has the ability to close . . we certainly have a lot to offer this youngster.

I'll admit, I haven't gotten any idea where this goes for us . . we need folks to play and contribute both in games and during practice. Could be a surprise player for us . .
 
BillyL said:
Roy and staff have decided that Watson is not going to get an offer. I can only hope Stokes likes us and sees the opportunity he's been given . .
Click to expand...

Does that mean he will not be visiting on the 22nd? Seems like a waste of time for both parties if thats the case.
 
BillyL said:
@alabamaheel . . I've heard that Tennessee may be the leader here, but, an offer from UNC carries a lot of weight and even when Roy gets in later than others he has the ability to close . . we certainly have a lot to offer this youngster.

I'll admit, I haven't gotten any idea where this goes for us . . we need folks to play and contribute both in games and during practice. Could be a surprise player for us . .
Click to expand...
Thanks. A lot of what I thought. Gonna be hard to pull away from those two coaches and being close to home, but ol Roy can do it.
 
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DevilBlue said:
I would assume you can do this for every class 4 years later. Obviously some guys hit their stride later than others. Reality is though that its near impossible to perfectly pick those 4 guys and also part of what makes them so good is the systems and teams they play for. Put all those guys on the same team and its a different dynamic.
Click to expand...
That is the point. You can get excellent players in every class without getting a bunch of 5 stars.
 
Last edited:
Archer and Spacegrass. I understand what you are saying, but lets be realistic. If you picked the next 5 highest or lowest players from the rivals rankings your team would drastically change. I've said it before, to me there are two ways to recruit now. You can go hard for top talent and expect turnover and so hiccups from young guys having lack of experience which can hurt if you need them to help carry your team. Or you can go hard for a class or two of 4 star or lower 5 star guys and let them develop as a team. Izzo has been very successful at this. Roy did well last year. Dukes 2010 team was like this. Hell Florida won back to back titles. The downside to this from a blue blood perspective is we all know we want to win it all every year. "Man we aren't the best team but any given night if we get hot" Realistic fans are usually happy sweet 16 or better and then the occasional year where you really are a top 5 team and you have higher expectations. As fans I watch people live and die by these rankings when it suits their needs. I want both Duke and UNC fans talk about getting to top guy or who is ranked higher. I watch both act like lower ranked players are an outlier who just is overlooked and compare them to stars from the past. I watch both talk smack when someone higher ranked doesn't immediately come in and dominate from day 1. Roy is a great coach and I'm he and his crew have their own way of projecting talent as does every coach, but push comes to shove I bet theres not a coach out there who when asked what class they would want between the one listed and lets drop 2 lower ranked guys for two top ten guys(assuming positional needs stay the same) wouldn't take the two top guy class every time.
 
DevilBlue said:
Archer and Spacegrass. I understand what you are saying, but lets be realistic. If you picked the next 5 highest or lowest players from the rivals rankings your team would drastically change. I've said it before, to me there are two ways to recruit now. You can go hard for top talent and expect turnover and so hiccups from young guys having lack of experience which can hurt if you need them to help carry your team. Or you can go hard for a class or two of 4 star or lower 5 star guys and let them develop as a team. Izzo has been very successful at this. Roy did well last year. Dukes 2010 team was like this. Hell Florida won back to back titles. The downside to this from a blue blood perspective is we all know we want to win it all every year. "Man we aren't the best team but any given night if we get hot" Realistic fans are usually happy sweet 16 or better and then the occasional year where you really are a top 5 team and you have higher expectations. As fans I watch people live and die by these rankings when it suits their needs. I want both Duke and UNC fans talk about getting to top guy or who is ranked higher. I watch both act like lower ranked players are an outlier who just is overlooked and compare them to stars from the past. I watch both talk smack when someone higher ranked doesn't immediately come in and dominate from day 1. Roy is a great coach and I'm he and his crew have their own way of projecting talent as does every coach, but push comes to shove I bet theres not a coach out there who when asked what class they would want between the one listed and lets drop 2 lower ranked guys for two top ten guys(assuming positional needs stay the same) wouldn't take the two top guy class every time.
Click to expand...
Actually you don't get it. My point is talent evaluation by staffs and how the players incorporate into the playing style is more important than recruiting rankings. Plenty of highly touted recruiting classes that never accomplished anything significant.
 
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