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New 2017 post player offer

Spacegrass said:
Actually you don't get it. My point is talent evaluation by staffs and how the players incorporate into the playing style is more important than recruiting rankings. Plenty of highly touted recruiting classes that never accomplished anything significant.
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Here is a fun fact. Since 2005, when the NBA implemented its rule that led to "one and done" players, only two NCAA champions have had a one year player. Kentucky in 2012 and Duke in 2015
 
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Roy offered simply because he seems more offensively ready for the college than said Watson. I think it is a great offer and would be a even better pick up if he commits.
 
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DevilBlue said:
Archer and Spacegrass. I understand what you are saying, but lets be realistic. If you picked the next 5 highest or lowest players from the rivals rankings your team would drastically change. I've said it before, to me there are two ways to recruit now. You can go hard for top talent and expect turnover and so hiccups from young guys having lack of experience which can hurt if you need them to help carry your team. Or you can go hard for a class or two of 4 star or lower 5 star guys and let them develop as a team. Izzo has been very successful at this. Roy did well last year. Dukes 2010 team was like this. Hell Florida won back to back titles. The downside to this from a blue blood perspective is we all know we want to win it all every year. "Man we aren't the best team but any given night if we get hot" Realistic fans are usually happy sweet 16 or better and then the occasional year where you really are a top 5 team and you have higher expectations. As fans I watch people live and die by these rankings when it suits their needs. I want both Duke and UNC fans talk about getting to top guy or who is ranked higher. I watch both act like lower ranked players are an outlier who just is overlooked and compare them to stars from the past. I watch both talk smack when someone higher ranked doesn't immediately come in and dominate from day 1. Roy is a great coach and I'm he and his crew have their own way of projecting talent as does every coach, but push comes to shove I bet theres not a coach out there who when asked what class they would want between the one listed and lets drop 2 lower ranked guys for two top ten guys(assuming positional needs stay the same) wouldn't take the two top guy class every time.
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I say this to every dook fan who tries to come here and sell the OADU system that Cal and K have adopted. If you like having OAD's go in and out the door every year, fine. Then K's approach is perfect for you. When you take the court with the best talent every year, it does give you a chance to win the title every year.

But I prefers Roy's method of building the team on 4* players, with 3* role players and the occasional 5* sprinkled in. It doesn't give you a chance to win the title every year, but you can count on a serious run every 3-4 years and very solid teams in between. I prefer watching players develop over 3-4 years to the OAD wonders. I prefer Brice Johnson and Marcus Paige, four year guys, to Jones and Ingram. It seems to astound dook fans when I say this and I'm not quite sure why. But the bottom line is, I like our approach and I assume you like your coach's approach.

Fair enough?
 
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Archer2 said:
I say this to every dook fan who tries to come here and sell the OADU system that Cal and K have adopted. If you like having OAD's go in and out the door every year, fine. Then K's approach is perfect for you. When you take the court with the best talent every year, it does give you a chance to win the title every year.

But I prefers Roy's method of building the team on 4* players, with 3* role players and the occasional 5* sprinkled in. It doesn't give you a chance to win the title every year, but you can count on a serious run every 3-4 years and very solid teams in between. I prefer watching players develop over 3-4 years to the OAD wonders. I prefer Brice Johnson and Marcus Paige, four year guys, to Jones and Ingram. It seems to astound dook fans when I say this and I'm not quite sure why. But the bottom line is, I like our approach and I assume you like your coach's approach.

Fair enough?
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Arch, I'll only add one modification (IMO) --- Roy's approach actually gives us a chance nearly every year as long as there isn't an unforeseen gap that bites us in a given season (like losing PJ or the Drew/Wears debacle). Otherwise Roy will regularly field a team in March that can beat anyone they play and with some breaks can make a nice run, and yeah, every few years take it all the way. In other words Mercer Bears don't tend to bite us so much ;).

On a related note, last season I felt pretty danged good in March --- not just because we were peaking --- but because I laughed at the media nonsense that UK was somehow the team to watch (and Calipari's bluster was comical as well). I believe I posted on here that UK had no chance of a Final Four run, much less a Natty, especially when they put them in our bracket. I didn't think they would get past Indiana and if they did we would have trounced them just like we did Indy.

dook's flame-out was nearly as predictable. Now granted the Rat has an impressive combo of talent over there coming up this season, with a mix of veterans and elite frosh, and I'm sure they will be a force to reckon with. But I still wouldn't bet on UK's chances despite their sick freshman class. Of course the most important note is, meanwhile in Chapel Hill, our veteran crew of Burger Boys and friends will take a back seat to no one.
 
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Archer2 said:
I say this to every dook fan who tries to come here and sell the OADU system that Cal and K have adopted. If you like having OAD's go in and out the door every year, fine. Then K's approach is perfect for you. When you take the court with the best talent every year, it does give you a chance to win the title every year.

But I prefers Roy's method of building the team on 4* players, with 3* role players and the occasional 5* sprinkled in. It doesn't give you a chance to win the title every year, but you can count on a serious run every 3-4 years and very solid teams in between. I prefer watching players develop over 3-4 years to the OAD wonders. I prefer Brice Johnson and Marcus Paige, four year guys, to Jones and Ingram. It seems to astound dook fans when I say this and I'm not quite sure why. But the bottom line is, I like our approach and I assume you like your coach's approach.

Fair enough?
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Like I said I see benefits to both systems and agree more young guys tend to lead to boom or bust years. Honestly I think its really finding a healthy middle ground that I would prefer. I have no issue with 1 OAD per year as I think there are obviously players who are at a talent level where even out of high school they are better than most college players. That said I'm not a huge fan of the major turnover. 2015 was different than most of Dukes OAD years because it was more than just 1 player. Likely this was in part to the rise in stock of Wilson and Jones due to tournament play. I have no issue with them leaving when their stock was high, but I don't think most people had them leaving early when they signed. I do agree its fun to watch guys grow and find their place amongst the great names of those schools. I have enjoyed watching Jefferson, Jones, Allen, Plumlees, Scheyer, Smith and many others over the years in many ways more than Iriving, Wilson, Parker, Okafor....etc.

I think what "astounds" Duke fans (its a message board so...) is when some people say flat our statements that apply to everyone. "I don't want any one and dones"
 
gary-7 said:
Arch, I'll only add one modification (IMO) --- Roy's approach actually gives us a chance nearly every year as long as there isn't an unforeseen gap that bites us in a given season (like losing PJ or the Drew/Wears debacle). Otherwise Roy will regularly field a team in March that can beat anyone they play and with some breaks can make a nice run, and yeah, every few years take it all the way. In other words Mercer Bears don't tend to bite us so much ;).

On a related note, last season I felt pretty danged good in March --- not just because we were peaking --- but because I laughed at the media nonsense that UK was somehow the team to watch (and Calipari's bluster was comical as well). I believe I posted on here that UK had no chance of a Final Four run, much less a Natty, especially when they put them in our bracket. I didn't think they would get past Indiana and if they did we would have trounced them just like we did Indy.

dook's flame-out was nearly as predictable. Now granted the Rat has an impressive combo of talent over there coming up this season, with a mix of veterans and elite frosh, and I'm sure they will be a force to reckon with. But I still wouldn't bet on UK's chances despite their sick freshman class. Of course the most important note is, meanwhile in Chapel Hill, our veteran crew of Burger Boys and friends will take a back seat to no one.
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Both OAD teams that have won titles did have a few veteran leaders, both for Duke and UK. I don't think you will see the title runs without them as despite their obvious overall talent the 2015 UK team showed inexperience when trailing late against Wisconsin, and even some the game before against ND.
 
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DevilBlue said:
I think what "astounds" Duke fans (its a message board so...) is when some people say flat our statements that apply to everyone. "I don't want any one and dones"
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I see this mentioned by dook fans but I never seem to be able to find it posted by an actual UNC fan. Perhaps you can find a couple of examples to cite.

I have said numerous times that I don't want to see UNC go the same route as UK and dook and have OAD's coming and going every year. I prefer 3-4 year players but certainly don't mind the occasional OAD, provided he's a good fit. UNC has only had two of them in the history of our program and one didn't even start. So OAD's simply don't see UNC as a OAD friendly program. Ergo, why I don't think we'll see a discernible increase in OAD's at UNC even when the investigation is finally resolved.
 
Sk1310 said:
Here is a fun fact. Since 2005, when the NBA implemented its rule that led to "one and done" players, only two NCAA champions have had a one year player. Kentucky in 2012 and Duke in 2015
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Yep and the difference was dominant big men. Davis and Okafor.

Basketball talent pool in this country and even globally is just so deep.
 
Archer2 said:
I see this mentioned by dook fans but I never seem to be able to find it posted by an actual UNC fan. Perhaps you can find a couple of examples to cite.

I have said numerous times that I don't want to see UNC go the same route as UK and dook and have OAD's coming and going every year. I prefer 3-4 year players but certainly don't mind the occasional OAD, provided he's a good fit. UNC has only had two of them in the history of our program and one didn't even start. So OAD's simply don't see UNC as a OAD friendly program. Ergo, why I don't think we'll see a discernible increase in OAD's at UNC even when the investigation is finally resolved.
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To be fair, we have had a few OADs out of HS who stuck around for more than a year but could have gone after 1 year. And a couple more who looked like OADs but clearly weren't really OADs and stuck around to develop and then went pro.

Sometimes that gets used against us.
 
What Would Jesus Do? said:
To be fair, we have had a few OADs out of HS who stuck around for more than a year but could have gone after 1 year. And a couple more who looked like OADs but clearly weren't really OADs and stuck around to develop and then went pro.

Sometimes that gets used against us.
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Barnes is the only one who comes to mind who possibly fits the former case. And don't forget, Barnes made it pretty clear he wasn't going to be a OAD before he even decided on a school.

I don't remember anyone who fits the latter description, with the possible exception of Henson.

But there's no doubt it gets used against us and the OAD's have drunk the koolaid.
 
Archer2 said:
Barnes is the only one who comes to mind who possibly fits the former case. And don't forget, Barnes made it pretty clear he wasn't going to be a OAD before he even decided on a school.

I don't remember anyone who fits the latter description, with the possible exception of Henson.
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Barnes, Hansbrough and Mac come to mind. All of them would have been drafted as frosh. A couple in the lottery.

Henson was the main one I was thinking of in the second category. But maybe Davis, Lawson, Ellington, Zeller, Bullock, and others, too. When you are a top 10 or top 20 player, lots of people think you ought to be OAD - especially the players themselves, these days.
 
What Would Jesus Do? said:
Barnes, Hansbrough and Mac come to mind. All of them would have been drafted as frosh. A couple in the lottery.

Henson was the main one I was thinking of in the second category. But maybe Davis, Lawson, Ellington, Zeller, Bullock, and others, too. When you are a top 10 or top 20 player, lots of people think you ought to be OAD - especially the players themselves, these days.
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Barnes is the only one that I heard any talk about being a OAD and as I said, he was upfront about wanting to pursue his education.

I do agree about top 10-15 players almost automatically thinking they're OAD material.
 
Archer2 said:
Barnes is the only one that I heard any talk about being a OAD and as I said, he was upfront about wanting to pursue his education.

I do agree about top 10-15 players almost automatically thinking they're OAD material.
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It goes much further than 10-15 in a lot of cases.
 
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What Would Jesus Do? said:
Barnes, Hansbrough and Mac come to mind. All of them would have been drafted as frosh. A couple in the lottery.

Henson was the main one I was thinking of in the second category. But maybe Davis, Lawson, Ellington, Zeller, Bullock, and others, too. When you are a top 10 or top 20 player, lots of people think you ought to be OAD - especially the players themselves, these days.
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Thing is the NBA has only so many spots and so many teams. Compared to college, it's a real small number. Not everyone is going to get there. Even recruits within the top 20 or 30 aren't guaranteed to be NBA worthy, whether they go 1 year or 4 years. No one should assume that anyone is an automatic lock for a star unless you're that good like LeBron and Kobe were. But those are the exception not the rule.

There are cases to make to stay. Draymond Green, Damion Lillard, CJ McCollum, Curry, Thompson, Leonard, and a lot of other players stayed 3+ years

I think it's a myth that staying in college hurts your NBA prospects or career. But people look at Durant, Wiggins, Davis, Towns, Irving, and others as the top tier examples of staying one year and going. But it's not always the case. It may equal more money, but it doesn't equal a good career.
 
carolinablue34 said:
Thing is the NBA has only so many spots and so many teams. Compared to college, it's a real small number. Not everyone is going to get there. Even recruits within the top 20 or 30 aren't guaranteed to be NBA worthy, whether they go 1 year or 4 years. No one should assume that anyone is an automatic lock for a star unless you're that good like LeBron and Kobe were. But those are the exception not the rule.

There are cases to make to stay. Draymond Green, Damion Lillard, CJ McCollum, Curry, Thompson, Leonard, and a lot of other players stayed 3+ years

I think it's a myth that staying in college hurts your NBA prospects or career. But people look at Durant, Wiggins, Davis, Towns, Irving, and others as the top tier examples of staying one year and going. But it's not always the case. It may equal more money, but it doesn't equal a good career.
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I think its more it hurts your draft stock is the prevailing thought. Oh if a senior is good enough they will be drafted high, but lets face it most GMs assume that the older you are the closer to your peak level you are. Its a high risk reward to draft younger guys who have higher ceilings. Mac is a good example. Talented but never really reached that next level. If he had left after year one or two people might have assumed it was still to come. Of course leaving early will not keep you in the league but too many kids see the dollars and forget that(though with a little smart invensting they could all easily put away enough to go back and get their degree...every school would take them back because it makes them look good)
 
UNC is now pursuing(no offer yet , I assume they might do that when they catch him) Jericho Sims 6'8" 190 from Minneapolis , MN competition is Minny and Tex.
 
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HeelFan58 said:
UNC is now pursuing(no offer yet , I assume they might do that when they catch him) Jericho Sims 6'8" 190 from Minneapolis , MN competition is Minny and Tex.
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Thanks for the share, @HeelFan58 . .

This is another guy that UNC caught a glimpse of while watching another one of our targets. A better player than Isaiah Stokes, but, still a bit of a project . . and very worthy of an investment.

Holds offers from Texas, Ohio State, Florida, UCONN, VT and 18 other schools . .
 
Sk1310 said:
Here is a fun fact. Since 2005, when the NBA implemented its rule that led to "one and done" players, only two NCAA champions have had a one year player. Kentucky in 2012 and Duke in 2015
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Didn't Marvin Williams go after one year and a championship or am I misremembering?
 
Roy is chasing his tail here in desperation guys. We are on the wrong end of a south bound mule.
Been hoping ole Roy could turn it around but he is scrambling and struggling greatly with big guys
 
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MNT-FIEST said:
Roy is chasing his tail here in desperation guys. We are on the wrong end of a south bound mule.
Been hoping ole Roy could turn it around but he is scrambling and struggling greatly with big guys
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And you have won how many college basketball games and national championships troll?
 
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MNT-FIEST said:
Roy is chasing his tail here in desperation guys. We are on the wrong end of a south bound mule.
Been hoping ole Roy could turn it around but he is scrambling and struggling greatly with big guys
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He will have three mcdonald american big men in the lineup next year. Tony Bradley didnt commit to us until mid way througj his senior year. The kids in this class havent even started school, yet some are acting like the 2017 recruiting cycle is over. Get a grip, we just played in the national championship game
 
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MNT-FIEST said:
Roy is chasing his tail here in desperation guys. We are on the wrong end of a south bound mule.
Been hoping ole Roy could turn it around but he is scrambling and struggling greatly with big guys
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giphy.gif
 
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Archer2 said:
I'm surprised at this. 247 now has him listed as 100% to Maryland with Ross Martin of Inside Carolina predicting Maryland just yesterday. Sounds like we either told him we weren't going to offer and that would be strange with him set to visit on 8/22 or that he's told them he's going to Maryland. I guess this means no visit on 8/22?

I can only hope this means we've gotten very positive feedback from someone else. Perhaps Isaiah Stokes. Could he pull a Coby White and commit right away? I hope so because the more I see of him, the more I like.

View embedded media
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Interesting that 247 doesn't show us as one of the teams recruiting Stokes, let alone offering him.
 
Archer2 said:
Interesting that 247 doesn't show us as one of the teams recruiting Stokes, let alone offering him.
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If you look closely his position is listed as DT. I think most of the offers were for that. His timeline shows an offer from UNC. I think the rest of his timeline is all for FB.
 
HeelFan58 said:
If you look closely his position is listed as DT. I think most of the offers were for that. His timeline shows an offer from UNC. I think the rest of his timeline is all for FB.
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That's exactly what it is. My bad. I really hope we can get this young man on campus for a visit pronto. It's looking more and more like we're going to get shut out for PJ, the only top 20 recruit I felt we had a chance for. And with the Watson situation...
 
Archer2 said:
That's exactly what it is. My bad. I really hope we can get this young man on campus for a visit pronto. It's looking more and more like we're going to get shut out for PJ, the only top 20 recruit I felt we had a chance for. And with the Watson situation...
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I didn't notice it either until Roseheel pointed it out.
 
Recent chatter I've read suggest UK leads for PJ Washington. In a year we desperately need big men and have tons of playing time to offer, we're gonna strike out on all the big men in the top 25.
 
heels05champs said:
Recent chatter I've read suggest UK leads for PJ Washington. In a year we desperately need big men and have tons of playing time to offer, we're gonna strike out on all the big men in the top 25.
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kind of been a trend. I guess this will put to rest the "they don't want to come here because of playing time".
 
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Jarred Vanderbilt has been offered by Roy/Staff . . 6'7" 210 lb. PF (Houston, TX).
 
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