OOTB Carolina basketball discussion thread
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Damn, I'm sad I missed that Muhammad Ali thread on Radar before it closed. Bur-Heel set a new standard for dumbass over there. THAT takes talent.
I could tell it was heading towards a "lock" pretty early on. I got a poast in - just to say I did it.
Those types of discussions are always better on OOTB anyways.
I was going to @ him in my previous post, but I didn't want to bring that trash to this board / thread, so I just listed his name without linking him.
Well, let me chime in.
Count me as one that feels Ali is a bit overrated. Granted, I didn't get to watch him fight in his prime other than replays of old fights and whatnot. But I think his legend is slightly exaggerated because of his social influence. Blacks needed a voice in those days and the mouthy Ali was happy to oblige. I personally think he could have been the beacon he was without calling white people "the blue-eyed devil" and regurgitating that anti-white rhetoric that Louis Farrakhan fed to him. Thankfully, he softened as he grew older and backtracked on some of his more angry and divisive sentiments. Had he not, I don't think he would be quite as beloved today as he is. I also think his Parkinsons disease helped his image as well. People felt sorry for Ali - even those that opposed his stances.
But I also respect Ali for the way he changed the way sports were covered. Ali was the first athlete to have something to say other than the typical coach/player talking points. He transcended sports. He became someone that journalists and reporters wanted to cover and it had next to nothing to do with sports. He was lively and entertaining. He loved to be in front of the camera and more times than not, he delivered in the appropriate way.
And he was a great fighter. I'm just not sure he was a good enough fighter to be considered the 20th century's greatest athlete. I don't think true boxing historians would say he's even the best fighter of the 20th century. In other words, I think Mike was a better basketball player than Ali was a fighter. I think Ruth was a better baseball player than Ali was a fighter. I think Jim Thorpe was maybe the best athlete that ever lived.
R.I.P.
I don't want my athletes talking politics or social issues, thank you very much. Many pro athletes are equal parts dumb as a bag of hammers and uneducated about the "real world" (because they live in a cocoon their whole youth and pro career due to their skills). Plus, I just don't care what their opinions are. The ability to throw or shoot a ball really well doesn't magically make these people enlightened.
Derek Jeter made a public statement lamenting Muhammad Ali's death over the weekend and some dweeby NYC sportswriter called out Jeter for never using his fame to speak out on social issues or politics. Uhh, why the **** would we care about Jeter's views on politics or social issues? The dude didn't even go to college because he's dedicated his life to baseball. Why does society need the social/political beliefs of a really good baseball player? Now of course, the cynic in me can answer that. The sportswriter assumes Jeter would be liberal since he's mixed race and therefore would supposedly preach liberal and progressive political and social views. THAT is why the writer was upset. I'm sure he's less upset that, say, Peyton Manning or Chipper Jones didn't speak more openly about their political beliefs.
ETA: Ebenezer Samuel of the NY Daily News
I agree for the most part that athletes shouldn't take it upon themselves to preach some social/political stance. Many times when they do, it feels like just an avenue to get them in the news again (i.e. that they don't really feel as strongly about the issue as they portray). Also, I think it's inherently a rigged practice - only one angle on each issue will be spoken out on. People nowadays will only speak out about things that are popular to the majority - or at least the majority of the people paying them (the league [NBA, NFL, etc.] - and their sponsors). LeBron wearing the BlackLivesMatter shirt during warmups, and the people speaking out about the transgender bathroom issues, do that so people will cover them on ESPN and say "wow look at this athlete standing up for what's right". No one is going to out and out say "Black lives don't matter" or "screw transgender rights". Even people who disagree with some of the aspects of both movements for other related reasons, have to delicately walk on egg shells while discussing the topic to not come across as if that's their stance. So you're never going to get a fairly major A/B issue, in which some athletes are wearing and speaking "pro A" and other athletes are wearing and speaking "pro B".
It's not very hard to wear a BLM t-shirt, when the league you're playing in, and all your sponsors, are down with the BLM movement as well. There's no risk there. What Ali did, at the time he did it, was indeed risky. Speaking out about racial prejudices in the 60s didn't have the overwhelming support that it does now. Ditching the draft was seen much more seriously than now (or I guess I should say, how it would be perceived if there even was a draft anymore). While I don't agree with his racist remarks towards whites (or even towards blacks... see his "gorilla" comments about Frazier), and while I don't think skipping the draft is all that honorable, I can respect that Ali truly believed in what he was doing - and wasn't just doing it for show, like is done today.
Ali also put his money where his mouth was in a big way. Losing 3.5 years of the prime of his career, cost him a lot of accolades and money. If Nike told LeBron "Hey King James - if you wear that BLM T-shirt for warmups, we're knocking a year off your endorsement deal, and ceasing production of any Lebron branded shoes" he would have that shirt burned so fast your head would spin.
It's not very hard to wear a BLM t-shirt, when the league you're playing in, and all your sponsors, are down with the BLM movement as well. There's no risk there. What Ali did, at the time he did it, was indeed risky. Speaking out about racial prejudices in the 60s didn't have the overwhelming support that it does now. Ditching the draft was seen much more seriously than now (or I guess I should say, how it would be perceived if there even was a draft anymore). While I don't agree with his racist remarks towards whites (or even towards blacks... see his "gorilla" comments about Frazier), and while I don't think skipping the draft is all that honorable, I can respect that Ali truly believed in what he was doing - and wasn't just doing it for show, like is done today.
Ali also put his money where his mouth was in a big way. Losing 3.5 years of the prime of his career, cost him a lot of accolades and money. If Nike told LeBron "Hey King James - if you wear that BLM T-shirt for warmups, we're knocking a year off your endorsement deal, and ceasing production of any Lebron branded shoes" he would have that shirt burned so fast your head would spin.
Looks like part of that post was edited by a mod. Anyone know what the whole post said?
You are preaching to the choir and throw in Hollywood actors and musicians to those that I don't want to hear the opinions of.
Amen. I despise those whiny, Hollywood, progressive types sticking their noses into issues they know nothing about. Sean Penn, Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, and all the rest of those idiots.
I can understand what you are saying , but personally I admire Ted Williams and the athletes of that era who lost 3-3.5 years serving their country. Just imagine "The Splinter's" stats with those years back.
Yes, that's a better point. Losing 3 years of your career actually fighting for your country is more impressive than losing 3 years of your career protesting about fighting for your country. Teddy Ballgame walked away from the game for WWII, came back, then left again for Korea, and then came back again. Would definitely have racked up a lot more stats in those years.
And the biggest moron that fits that description, and one who the whole world would be better off if they never heard from him again: Michael Moore.
That nutsack is more devious and hypocritical than any right winger I've seen on FOX news.
I don't really like my athletes making political stands either. MJ has been beat up by some for not using his fame as well (Kareem Abdul Jabbar has gone after Mike on this). I hope you didn't take my post to mean that I like athletes doing that. I said I respect Ali for changing the way sports was covered. And even then, I can't say I love the way sports are covered all the time now. But you have to admire Ali for being the guy who could do that. People now care about athlete's thoughts largely because of Ali.
By the way, I'm a casual Red Sox fan that absolutely loves Jeter.
Hey I respect that. How can you not like Jeter? I'm a Yankees fan who likes Ortiz.
Raider could force a lock on a thread about Gandhi.
That board is just a cesspool now.
Right, but there was no doubt about the validity of WWII. Vietnam, on the other hand, was not so clear in its purpose.
I always liked Ali. And I really don't care one way or another if athletes/entertainers voice their political or social views.
Anyone have a list of players that Roy offered that actually ended up being a OaD . . ?
I have nothing against the Pirates. But I do have a major problem with stupid flat brimmed hats. This is what a hat should look like.
Marvin Williams and Brandan Wright I think are the only two.
Or were you referring to players Roy has offered that ended up being OADs elsewhere?
If that's the case the list would basically be any OAD from duke with few exceptions. You can even throw in a few from UK, KU and state. Radar would disagree even though those are actually facts.
Yes, not just the 2 UNC players . .
I've seen a list somewhere . . I just can't remember where to start looking.
amen to that. Flat brimmed hats look like they are wearing a pot.I have nothing against the Pirates. But I do have a major problem with stupid flat brimmed hats. This is what a hat should look like.
Thank you both. I've never understood the fascination with celebrities' personal lives and opinions. Just because you're ridiculously wealthy doesn't mean you're actually worth more than anyone else as a human being. And most of the people of actual importance aren't going to be found in the pages of US Weekly, etc. anyway.
We offered TJ Warren, Andrew Wiggins, D'Angelo Russell, Jahlil Okafor, Brandon Ingram, Julius Randle, Skal Labissiere, and probably more I'm not thinking of at the moment.
My new favorite was when ChapelHeeled dropped a "(IMO, fact)". That sums up that board perfectly. In their opinion, what they poast are facts.
Does he not realize the contradiction of his words when he says that? It's either an opinion or fact, it can't be both.
Mike Conley
Spencer Hawes
Thaddeus Young
Kevin Durant
Austin Rivers
Jabari Parker
And I'm pretty sure we held interest in a number of the other OADs too.
Wow, gary and chapelheeled are setting a new standard for stupid, smug and arrogant. Is the term 'reason' lost on these people?
I saw that one too. I wanted to reply to it, but I didn't want to get into a pissing contest with him. I've noticed that lately he's been adding "imo" to his post to try to cover some of his idiotic crap.
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