so lame. Let me clue you as to when you should just STFU. You should always just STFU.
OOTB's Political Thread . ..
- Thread starter BillyL
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I think what he’s asking you is: if it was about what you all tell us it’s about, why have statues of non-Civil War related figures been defaced or torn down? Why was Lincoln’s statue under fire? The lawless, liberal loons can’t even get on the same page as to what they’re supposed to be hurt by. Good grief.
Slavery existed in America for an exponentially shorter time period than anywhere else on earth. No one wants to mention that. Instead, our idiot woke leaders stoke the fires of division by perpetuating the myth that America is racist.
I’m gonna purposely throw a rock through your window and then when I fix it, you can tell me what a hero I am.
thank you, you just gave me the opportunity to point out the arrogance that is the real issue here. You can have whatever opinion on any topic you care to, and I'll defend your right to have it every time, but your rationalizations are so off base they contradict each other. There was really nothing noble about the Confederacy except for the fact that so many lost their lives fighting for it, you say. If there was nothing noble that they were fighting for, why should they be honored for fighting for such an ignoble cause.
Do you think the German soldier of WW II deserves to be honored? Yes or no, I have no patience for another rationalization. No bullshit like 'well, that's just different'.
I'll anticipate your answer. Whether they deserve to be honored depends completely on your perspective. YOU decide for yourself if they should.
Think what you will about some statue, who cares. But when a statue is removed because YOU think FOR ME that it should be removed, you can go fvck yourself. When a statue is removed because you think you have some sort of superiority of mind and perspective, you can go fvck yourself.
it only gets worse for you. Please take my previous advice and just STFU.
It’s sarcasm and a raising Arizona reference. No prez should be blamed for gas prices going up or credited for them going down. It’s idiotic to do either.
"It was hard to do with that sumbitch Reagan in the white house."
*fix it - should read “put duct tape over half of the hole in the window”
all over the map. Currently I have 'the History of Rome' in my uh, library. I've read it a number of times but it's hard to lock everything in place. I'm more into origins than developments though, kind of the twilight area between history and archaeology. I want to know if the Greeks had ancestral ties to the Hittites, that kind of thing. I strongly believe that there was a very early Southeast Asian or Malaysian or Polynesian influx into South America.
I love historical novels because for one thing because you learn more history when the subject is engrossing and you get more of the flavor of the setting. If you are into WW II history and you also like historical novels, try the 'Winds of War' by Herman Wouk. I literally could not put it down. But one you might find particularly interesting on several levels is Raptor, by Gary Jennings. Late Roman kind of stuff but not about Rome. You'll see what I mean.
Topical and not quite Russian, but definitely about Ukraine, try With Fire and Sword by Sinkiewicz.
It's hard to know what he's asking because he's swimming in far-right conspiracy lunacy.
I'm not sure that they are actually doing that. I'm also not talking about Lincoln, or Thomas Jefferson, or George Washington, or any other white guy that WASN'T part of the CSA. Those statues were created to glorify men that fought against the United States of America and they were fighting to maintain and extend the institution of chattel slavery while breaking-up the USA. And, they LOST. That's why they're "famous"... that's the only reason they have any historical context. They were traitors to the United States.
I'm not condoning the removal of monuments commemorating Lincoln, or Jefferson, or Washington. Those people were famous for creating and/or preserving the United States of America.
lol, so you get to decide who gets a pass when your narrative is threatened? How hypocritical of you. The rest of your post is pure nonsense. Those other people of the Confederacy are relevant to you mostly because of your need to virtue-signal.
Probably because it doesn't do one damned thing to lessen the severity or the importance of the role it played. America was absolutely and totally created to be owned and operated by the following: white, land-owning, mostly-protestant, MEN. Everyone else was underneath them.
And, southern plantation aristocracy was even more in favor of wealthy, white male ownership.
I'm not deciding anything, you dumb mutherfvcker! The citizens of the cities, towns and states are deciding whose statues are being removed.
If calling those men white supremacists, slave traders/owners and traitors to the USA is virtue-signaling... fine with me. You make it sound like being openly opposed to obvious oppression to humanity is some sign of weakness.
Anderson Cooper's father was from Mississippi. From and episode of "Find Your Roots"- He had no problem having an instinctive, negative response to the death of a 4th-great grandfather, who was killed by one of his own slaves. "He had 12 slaves, I don't feel bad for him."
I don't necessarily agree that he "deserved" to be murdered. But, I'm not surprised.
I don't necessarily agree that he "deserved" to be murdered. But, I'm not surprised.
Well I appreciate your willingness to defend me from a pure civil liberties standpoint, which I would reciprocate.
I'm merely making a distinction between honoring the common soldier and the misguided cause they fought for. For example, the SS does not and should never be celebrated. But Wermacht soldiers, despite fighting for an objectively evil force, are a different story. I think it's possible to commemorate an event and life lost without endorsing the government they fought for. But you don't see statues of Hitler, Goebbels, and Himmler across Germany do you? Granted, the scale of their crimes outweighs that of Lee, Jackson, and Stuart.
But imagine if modern Germany and its government or at least part of it, still operated under the premise the Nazis did nothing wrong and a huge portion of their population/Parliament became apologists for it? I do not believe there is any reason to commemorate upper echelon Confederate leaders and generals.
The statues aren't about you or about me wanting to one up you. It's about what they represent and what they represented to the people who put them up. What they were trying to accomplish, which was racial segregation and a steadfast commitment to ensuring blacks would never be their social or political equals. The Confederacy believed in these principles.
It's different than Washington, Jefferson, or Madison. They built up this nation. We owe our existence to them. The South tried to destroy it. To me, that's the key difference. Take it for what you will.
You're spot on here.
That being said, there is an element on the leftward side of the isle that actively promotes the idea of the USA being inherently evil and that 'cis white men' are the reason for every problem. etc. It's not only annoying but inaccurate. And they do as much damage to liberalism as any hard right white nationalist.
That's interesting as hell. And I've heard of that possible influence into South America, though I'm not sure how verified it is by contemporaries. Even so, it's a cool concept.
And I have to agree again on historical novels. Those who can write a compelling story about history as opposed to something drier than the paint on my wall, have my full attention. I've read Raptor before as well, which is a long but one hell of a read .
I will gladly check out the other books you recommended. May I also recommend 'The 11 Cultural Nations of North America' by Colin Woodard.
Yeah... I don't understand the all-or-nothing approach. And, it's necessary to realize that white supremacy was basically the standard for the entire western world. It doesn't make them "evil", but by today's standards it's not very acceptable. I think there's a large backlash for ignoring the injustices that were allowed, promoted, and even codified into law, after the Civil War.
The Confederacy was blatant about white supremacy and perpetuating slavery. It was the "cornerstone" (Alexander Stephens) of its very existence. Their whole reason for secession and engaging in hostilities toward the USA was so they could keep their slaves. And, the bloodbath and crossroads of the nation that followed, even through the 20th Century, took a toll.
"Mark, When we lose Trump we lose our Republic. Fight like hell and find a way. We’re with you down here in Texas and refuse to live under a corrupt Marxist dictatorship. Liberty! Babin"
These people are delusional! Marxist dictatorship???
I read mostly history and historical fiction. I recommend Gary Jennings’ “Raptor”, as well as ”Aztec” and “Aztec Autumn”(the first two in his Aztec series). I didn’t realize he’d written four more in that series. My favorite by him may be “The Journeyer” which is about Marco Polo. Another of my favorites is Edward Rutherford(“Sarum”, ”Russka”, “London”, “Paris”, “The Forest” are all quite entertaining as well as educational. I also recommend Jeff Shaara’s WWII series(everyone who’s interested in the D-Day invasion should read “The Steel Wave”, the second in the four book series.) After reading it twice, I still don’t know how the Allies managed to pull it off.
Should we lock up the owners of Facebook and Twitter for using their platforms to rig the election?
nice. I didn't know there was an 'Aztec' series at all until I looked to remember the authors name.
Lots of good suggestions in your post. I have read one of Jeff Shaara's books, 'Gods and Generals' (IIRC), and of course Michael Shaara's classic.
I don't read as much anymore but I might have to tax my eyes and catch some of these.
'11 Nations' sounds right up my alley. I haven't read enough about our native peoples, although that happens to be one of my favorite areas of interest. Thanks.
I wasn't referring to removals, idiot, I was referring to your repetitive pushing of your one-sided opinion, and how conveniently hypocritical it is.
The weakness you display isn't in your opposition to oppression but in the facts you ignore and the narratives you create in order to fulfill your psychotic need to be a champion of the cause.
"Take it for what you will."
I take it the same way I took it the first time. You have an opinion and I have no problem with that. But when that opinion becomes arrogance and that arrogance assumes the right to act over my opinion, I have a problem. Short of that, I also have the right to condemn the arrogance of you assuming that your opinion is somehow morally or logically superior to mine. Those who claim moral superiority are full of shit.
The crimes of WW II Germany were only partially internal. They set out to attack and rule over other countries and committed atrocities at every turn along the way, including of course genocide. The people of Germany with very few exceptions knew that what took place was wrong, at least after the fact....and the world at large joined in condemnation. I myself am not about to honor a single German soldier of any rank. Consider though, if Germany itself was merely defending itself against invasion and that at the same time they happened to consider Jews to be troublesome and treated them in second-class manner (as was actually the case in many other countries). Different story now. That they would have acted in defense of their homeland tends to negate much of what the invaders might have seen as an immoral treatment of a segment of their population.....because it wasn't that shabby treatment of the Jews they were defending, it was the homeland itself. There's nothing noble in that? You can't memorialize those who led the good fight against the invaders? You can't be noble if you have flaws?
You can, unless of course your prejudices deem it otherwise, which is my point. You are allowed to have those prejudices, but you shouldn't be allowed to foist your arrogance on others who happen to have their own prejudices and outlooks.
So I come right back to my previous post. In my scenario, was there nothing whatsoever noble about their homeland just because their attitude toward the Jews didn't mesh with that of their invaders? Did the defense of that homeland make them criminals just because they were defending a homeland wherein a questionable viewpoint was maintained? That isn't for you to decide, conveniently or otherwise, for everyone else. Everyone else is allowed to have their own thoughts on the matter and to be free of the manifestations of your outlook.
You don't get to decide for everyone else what everyone else is supposed to think. You need to grasp that your opinions are formed on facts that you warp and put in the perspective of your own prejudices. There is no immutable superiority that only you can access and display.
You might hate those statues. I might not. I might hate transgenderism. You might not. So I allow you to care for what you care for while I expect you to reciprocate and let me care for what I care for. Anything that you offer to counter this is just a continuation of your effort to rationalize and establish a moral superiority that you don't possess.
I watch very little TV, I stream a little. But I read 2-3 hours minimum every single day. It’s tough on my old eyes but I prefer it to just about anything else. Over the years, it’s replaced watching sports almost entirely. That’s a very good thing.
I could tell you are well-read, but you're a champ for fighting through the tired old eyes to be so. I have the same problem so I don't read so much anymore, but over my years I have read almost compulsively. I've had the fortune to have read many books that became movies, and there is no comparison. After reading the book, the movie isn't worth watching. For example, many talk about how excellently scary 'The Exorcist' (movie) is. It isn't a bad flick, but it's almost a joke after reading the book. Many many more examples.
The best authors don't paint too precise a picture for you, they stimulate your imagination so you can paint your own.
Who cares? I was still referring to your f'ed up opinion and not the removals themselves, moron.
This statement is like shitting your pants and bragging about it because it wasn't diarrhea.
I know... Your opinion about my opinion is a priority for you. Insert the Obsession perfume pic.
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