OOTB's Political Thread . ..
- Thread starter BillyL
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And this is exactly what I'm talking about. I try to provide a nuanced answer that takes into account the bigger picture. Not just retarded finger pointing and engage in that hyperbole you love so much. You get aggressive and standoffish and start slinging accusations about how toxically biased I am.
Notice how I tied in the border problems to multiple administrations. I didn't say "it's actually Trump's fault." I just don't think the way he managed it actually provided the results his supporters think it did. As evidenced by the heavily conservative Cato Institute.
Obama failed, Bush failed, Clinton failed. Only the Reagan Administration has actually provided meaningful legislation that passed Congress in the last 40 years.
But I have more questions. Is it that Biden's policies at the border are terrible? Or that he simply doesn't enforce the ones already on the books? Where is it stated that 5 million have been let in ho-hum and are being given free room and board?
We could only hope to be failing on immigration at the level of past administrations.
Clown.
Right. Ignore the comment that has validity and poast a nonsensical pic. I wouldn’t have expected any more from you or anyone that can’t see the current admin has completely f*cked our admittedly already broken immigration system.
But what you said is dumb shit. It’s like you totaling your daddy’s car this weekend and then when he gets pissed, you bring up the scratch your sister put on the fender last summer.
But what you said is dumb shit. It’s like you totaling your daddy’s car this weekend and then when he gets pissed, you bring up the scratch your sister put on the fender last summer.
Oh so all of a sudden you're actually up for a healthy debate without the usual vitriol? Let's try it.
It's useful to think of wide sweeping political topics such as these in the long term, not the short term. Short term, I will not argue Biden has not done well at all and has more or less adopted a policy where he quietly allows those caught to just move about the country freely. The actual security is quite poor.
I know you despise and are opposed to any kind of immigration. But I believe it's to our advantage to fix the system with money for security and to make it easier to legally immigrate. A lot of conservatives talk about how their families did it the right way at Ellis Island. Well, why not return to that system? Or a modern version of it.
I’ve been warning y’all bout them tourists but no one listens
it's always just more of the same with you. The original question was what Trump specifically did that was harmful to the country. We have gone back and forth a number of times once again without you offering anything resembling a direct answer but rather we get 'the big picture', which translates to an apology for Biden and more open-ended trash directed at Trump. Those links you provide address 1) reduced legal immigration in response to covid, and 2) the fact that I mentioned....that Trump TRIED to reduce illegal immigration but was thwarted in his efforts by the dems. You remember the wall, don't you? You did see that I said "TRIED", didn't you?
So even though the only concrete thing you offered was off-target linkage against Trump, you think that's OK because you mentioned that other admins have failed....as if we don't recognize that as spreading the blame away from Biden, not Trump. I hope you didn't think you were being subtle.
I did have to laugh at your 'nuanced answer' thing, that was priceless. Thanks; 'nu-ance' must be short for 'no-answer'
"Is it that Biden's policies at the border are terrible? Or that he simply doesn't enforce the ones already on the books? Where is it stated that 5 million have been let in ho-hum and are being given free room and board?"
Biden's treasonous policy IS ignoring what's on the books, as has been pointed out to you a number of times. I was dwelling on that, remember? And do you really think that he is just bussing these permanent guests all over the country and then just turning them loose on the streets? Even an ostrich wouldn't bury his head that deep in the sand.
tourist accomodations
I will refrain from summing up with vitriol and retarded finger-pointing. At this point, it's just as well to let your retarded response stand on its own 'merits'.
You have to stop believing that just because I don't drink the kool-aid you drink on a daily basis about Trump, every road of my belief leads back to him. There's no getting around this shit. If I don't critique Trump in a way that personally satisfies you, it must be that I have no real reason to oppose him (other than hurt feelings). If I do, I must be shedding blame from Biden onto him. It's dumb. It's a game of gotcha. Which is closer to the word 'retarded' than anything I've said or done so far.
Yeah, sure. Trump 'tried'. But did that man actually understand what it takes to try and pass comprehensive immigration reform instead of mouthing off about a wall as though that would fix our problems? Have you considered that immigration might benefit us in the long term instead of throwing out angry conjecture about how his lack of enforcement is 'treasonous'? Never mind that Trump tried to throw this country's election system into chaos to stay in power and still attempts to to this day. Focus on that before you throw stones from a glass house. I've heard enough excuses from right wingers on that front.
But forget the orange man for a second. Forget that he did little to address the border in actuality. I'll admit 100% Biden dropped the ball on this. The point in bringing up other administrations, is to point out the cycle of futility that plagues this country when it comes to real solutions to problems. Not because I have any attachment to the current President or because it's all the fault of the last one. Only a tribalistic fool would believe either.
And yet again we come to why talking politics with you is the equivalent of pulling teeth. For Christ's sake maybe stop being an asshole with every response.
If it were as simple as passing immigration reform/policy that did things like repeal existing laws against sneaking in, provide a pathway to amnesty/citizenship, and throw our borders wide open due to the possibility of benefit you note, why didn't Congress, the Senate and Joe just pass such laws the last two years when they had complete control instead of spending all their time and energy on things like producing tv mini series?
The best argument for IQ requirement to vote. Hell of a rally though, there were at least like 75 people in attendance.
Will Trump break into a 3rd party if/when he loses to DeSantis in the primary and just completely crater the conservatives?
Close the border. Completely. No one comes in legally or illegally for 10 years while we try to evaluate how to move forward. Arrest or shoot anyone that crosses the border. In 10 years, we set a reasonable limit as to how many can come per year. Anyone that comes must be able to show they will have zero financial dependence on the US government and are able to take care of themselves.
That’s a jumping point. Anything short of what I’ve suggested is a nonstarter for me.
That’s a jumping point. Anything short of what I’ve suggested is a nonstarter for me.
Oh look, yet another regretful trans:
www.foxnews.com
Former trans kid shares agony of side effects from 'mutilating' medical transition: 'I've gotten no help'
Chloe Cole, an 18-year-old detransitioner, speaks out about the harmful effects of the medical intervention when she was a minor diagnosed with gender dysphoria.
Here's the thing that people want to forget and act like it doesn't exist. We already have legal immigration - big numbers every year. It's not an easy process, but it happens everyday. And it comes in various levels. Immigration to become a citizen, to work, and to be a student. The "problem" are those that want to avoid and go outside that process. Why they would want to come to our horrible country is unexplainable, but they come nonetheless.
I'm still not 100% convinced he's running. If those poll numbers start to look really bad the closer we get to a primary, then I could see him all of a sudden come down with a health issue.
I agree with you. He's kinda backed himself into a corner...what does he do if he loses? The guy is literally the worst sore loser in modern history. Will he claim fraud voting in the primary and just completely go rouge against his own party?
I see no way this ends with him gracefully conceding defeat to DeSantis and throwing his support to him. Maybe he'll prove us all wrong, doubtful though.
I'm going to break my tl;dr rule for this.
You guys keep focusing on the wrong thing with immigration. You're never going to limit it by focusing on the people. You have to fix the cause, which is the people hiring them. You make it harder to do that. Make the penalty for hiring them $1 million or 10% of gross profit for the previous 5 years. Whichever is greater. For individuals hiring them, make it a felony. That would significantly reduce illegal immigration.
Keep in mind that people are going to have to start paying their employees more, though. You aren't going to find a lot of people who want to work in the fields, cut your grass, watch your kids or scrub your toilet for $5 an hour. All of those costs will be passed down to the consumer.
You guys keep focusing on the wrong thing with immigration. You're never going to limit it by focusing on the people. You have to fix the cause, which is the people hiring them. You make it harder to do that. Make the penalty for hiring them $1 million or 10% of gross profit for the previous 5 years. Whichever is greater. For individuals hiring them, make it a felony. That would significantly reduce illegal immigration.
Keep in mind that people are going to have to start paying their employees more, though. You aren't going to find a lot of people who want to work in the fields, cut your grass, watch your kids or scrub your toilet for $5 an hour. All of those costs will be passed down to the consumer.
Thank you. There is an entire underbelly economically about all this that no one from either party wants to address or "fix". Keeping the system broken benefits both sides to make their pitch to their peeps and doesn't interrupt the money. There is even a benefit to the legal workers. Indeed, I have a contact who owns a tree service. Very successful and makes good coin. He employs a ton of labor from other countries. They are legal and he helps them navigate the system. And he collects all those taxes and ss, etc. All of that gets paid in and his labor pool eventually goes back to somewhere or disappears into the background. But as they work for him, they support the revenue stream in a big way.
There is still a huge part of our economy relying on illegal outside-process people. That's part of the reason no great legislation has passed on this the last few decades.
Our economy is main reason.
^See my first response above.
Trump had a huge impact on LEGAL migration as @carolinablue34 points out, but it was entirely via Executive actions. Even a red house & senate would have trouble agreeing on immigration reform.
So, I'd simply refer to my post above yours that were posted back to back. And, yes, my comment about our horrible country was sarcasm, but it does amaze that we can be such a shithole (according to all the pontificators out there), but people still beat down the door begging to come inside. All things are relative.
However, your post says orange had a huuuge impact on LEGAL immigration. The implication is that he didn't have one on ILLEGAL immigration. Is that your position and what you intended to imply?
what pontificator on here said USA was a shithole?
Correct. There was lots of rhetoric and talk of a wall, but the wall wouldn't have stemmed illegal immigration. His Exec orders impacted rulings on legal applicants, "Remain in Mexico", etc, but Trump didn't do anything impactful regarding the inflow of unauthorized folks from south of the border and didn't do more deportation than prior presidents.
Which is why I don't care as much as most people. I paid some guy I found at Home Depot and his two buddies like $300 and they painted 4 rooms in my house and the thing looks professionally done. That would be $1,000 or more if I paid someone.
Also, I want Americans striving for higher jobs than the work that illegals will do. I'd rather pay an illegal $5 an hour than have someone content because they're making $20 an hour to clean toilets. The illegal gets a better life and I can put my money in better places for the economy.
The myth that illegals are all drug dealing criminal masterminds is what scares snowflakes who say close the borders. It's simply not the case.
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When they get so far down the rabbit hole that they believe Trump is still in charge of the military, it makes me question their sanity. That guy from Laurens wearing the sombrero is the real deal.
I still believe Trump is going to get the Republican nomination.
I agree with that. Trump doesn't want to take an "L". He'll find some reason to not run if it looks bleak.
On another note, I got to have that Trump shirt that one guy in the video was wearing. The one with Trump's face all over it. That shit was hot.
I don't. DeSantis is a much more electable candidate, he's got a TON of campaign money, and he's all in this year because his term limit is up on being Governor so he'd basically have to sit around for 2 years if he conceded to run in 2028 instead of 2024. 2 years is a long time to be out of the public eye.
I agree with this too. Fine businesses hiring illegals. Absolutely. But regardless, they're still coming in droves. I disagree that would have much effect on the issue. It might have earlier. But at this point, the toothpaste is out of the tube as they say. The illegals are crossing now because they've seen that we're weak and susceptible. They're manipulating and taking advantage of the current admin's posture. Can't fix that until new leadership comes in and sends a better message - "Don't come here or else".
How is it not the case? Studies have shown that drugs are flowing over the southern border.
China dragging its nuts over our border/Biden as well. Check out the spy balloon near the Air Force base in Montana.
A spy balloon. They are stealth geniuses. That's like sneaking into a house by using a chainsaw.
That's his point. The brazen way in which they're acting is a total middle finger to us and daring us to respond. And we won't. Because we've become pussies.
and how do you think your lord and savior Donald J. Trump would have responded if this happened in say 2018?
He's still in charge. Don't you know that?
Yeah, through the actual ports of entry, not through gaps in our border wall or anything else that people seem to think will stop drugs.
If your solution is to close ports of entry into the US then you're proposing a solution that has zero practicality.
Oh shit, you're right. I guess the bad military was on duty the night of China's Death Balloon that is spying on our super duper secret stuff in Montana.
Exactly.
People complaining about us not shooting it down are dumb. We didn't shoot it down because we have nothing to gain from that technology and instead you just get debris falling.
If the Chinese wanted to spy on our nuclear silos, this would probably be the last way they'd do it.
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