OOTB's Political Thread . ..

[bluetoe]

Sorry the LOL at your perspective. Not sure if this was you being honest or not.

Either way, something I think a little more applicable is Europeans having social safety nets. They don't see their friends, fam and friends go bankrupt due to medical emergencies and tuition.

are you going to touch on the entire irrelevant liberal wish list or just enough of those to distract from the point at hand by implying that our gun violence is due to seeing people deal with medical emergencies and tuition? I have to admit, I haven't seen that angle suggested before.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Put multiple armed LEOs in schools.

Stop telling mentally deranged people it’s ok to be deranged.

That’s where I start.

 

[nctransplant]

Instead of trying to define assault and military, why not just define what civilians need for
a) personal defense:
- A little stopping power.
- Makes a big loud noise.
- locked storage cases or carriers.

b) defense against tyrannical power:
- Bunker to protect you from the drones and tanks. Ask people on the ground in the middle east how well machine guns help protect them from "tyrannical US invaders"

Everything else is in the category of things civvies DON'T need:
- high-capacity
- semi-automatic combined with highly lethal round.

AR-style are lightweight, easy to aim, easy to load and meet both of the above things which aren't needed. If these are going to be publicly available we need to make them harder to buy and easier to take away (red flag laws).

Hey Brandon, why don't you just go out on your porch and fire your 12ga in the air to ward off intruders?

 

[tarheel0910]

The reason not much gets done on this issue is because it always gets politicized. The left comes out and says take away the guns, which causes the right to say enforce the laws. Or I guess if you're Biden, you talk about ice cream. If people want things to actually change, they need to put down their ice cream and realize this isn't as simple as taking away guns or enforcing current laws.

 

[pooponduke]

The reason not much gets done on this issue is because it always gets politicized. The left comes out and says take away the guns, which causes the right to say enforce the laws. Or I guess if you're Biden, you talk about ice cream. If people want things to actually change, they need to put down their ice cream and realize this isn't as simple as taking away guns or enforcing current laws.

This is a rational and logical comment, so it doesn't belong on OOTB. What are you thinking?

All kidding aside, it bores down to the idea that these things aren't that simple and it is a much more complex situation than just saying X is the solution. The problem(s) are what's behind all this and leads to this type of situation. The embedded tweet shown below was posted hours after this incident in which the Az. Gov. Katie Hobbs's press secretary said "Us when we see transphobes" showing a woman holding a handgun in each hand. How can she ever think this is appropriate, acceptable, or helpful to any of this?

 

[gunslingerdick]

The reason not much gets done on this issue is because it always gets politicized. The left comes out and says take away the guns, which causes the right to say enforce the laws. Or I guess if you're Biden, you talk about ice cream. If people want things to actually change, they need to put down their ice cream and realize this isn't as simple as taking away guns or enforcing current laws.

The mistake is thinking things will ever change. They won’t.

 

[blazers]

Also, I should add that despite what our wonderful leader who apparently immediately made a statement about this situation, but had to first joke about coming for the ice cream and that he had a bunch of ice cream upstairs, says, the previous assault weapons ban did not work according to our own Justice Department study and others.

I see a few jokes on here about ice cream. I think people should look for context before believing anything they see on facebook and fox.

The ice cream stuff was at an SBA Women’s Business Summit, not some presser regarding the shooting.

 

[blazers]

If you had a grenade, I'm sure the greatest danger would be to yourself.

As if guns don't cause hundreds of accidental deaths each yr.

Now why can't we all buy grenades at walmart and cabelas?

 

[blazers]

Not sure what you mean by "so common in accidents".

IN 2020 Every 2.5 days a child or teen was killed by an unintentional gun injury, majority handguns.

There is the rare issue of someone improperly storing firearms when minors can gain access. There is also the rare issue of someone failing to clear the firearm while cleaning it and ALWAYS treating a firearm as loaded. Beyond that, accidental shootings are almost always involving someone using or having a firearm illegally.

Does it matter why? It's a shit-ton of kids who died for no reason.... 2nd Amendment didn't intend this side-effect.

 

[nctransplant]

As if guns don't cause hundreds of accidental deaths each yr.

Now why can't we all buy grenades at walmart and cabelas?

Guns don't cause accidental deaths, people do.

 

[nctransplant]

I see a few jokes on here about ice cream. I think people should look for context before believing anything they see on facebook and fox.

The ice cream stuff was at an SBA Women’s Business Summit, not some presser regarding the shooting.

He immediately addressed the shooting following his ice cream joke. facts matter. It wasn't a presser about it but he made the joke in poor taste just before addressing the shooting.

 

[blazers]

Guns don't cause accidental deaths, people do.

grenades don't cause deaths either, people do.

 

[tarheel0910]

I see a few jokes on here about ice cream. I think people should look for context before believing anything they see on facebook and fox.

The ice cream stuff was at an SBA Women’s Business Summit, not some presser regarding the shooting.

I didn't see it on Facebook or Fox. I got it from USA today. Add them to your shit list.

Chris Christie says President Biden fumbled Nashville shooting response with ice cream joke

Christie blasted Trump, DeSantis and Pence during a New Hampshire town hall, and slammed Biden earlier for his Nashville school shooting response.

www.usatoday.com

 

[blazers]

I didn't see it on Facebook or Fox. I got it from USA today. Add them to your shit list.

Chris Christie says President Biden fumbled Nashville shooting response with ice cream joke

Christie blasted Trump, DeSantis and Pence during a New Hampshire town hall, and slammed Biden earlier for his Nashville school shooting response.

www.usatoday.com

Is that article about Biden or politician Christie? Would it have been written if Christie wasn't making such a big stink over something minor? Nope.

Biden has tons of gaffes, i think this is a weak one to try to pick on.

 

[blazers]

Auto-accidents used to be the #1 cause of death of kids. To mitigate that there are tons of regulations and laws, from speed limits, to airbags, seat-belts, lots of crashtest dummies, street & road changes.

Vehicles, traffic design, and drivers have all gotten safer due to people caring and due to no wealthy lobby against road safety.

The #1 cause as of 2020 is guns. And only a small amt of that is due to mental health (mass shootings and suicides). America's problem cannot be solved alone by mental health improvements. Let's start by adding some difficulty and delay to the process of earning the right to have a gun.

 

[randman1]

This is a rational and logical comment, so it doesn't belong on OOTB. What are you thinking?

All kidding aside, it bores down to the idea that these things aren't that simple and it is a much more complex situation than just saying X is the solution. The problem(s) are what's behind all this and leads to this type of situation. The embedded tweet shown below was posted hours after this incident in which the Az. Gov. Katie Hobbs's press secretary said "Us when we see transphobes" showing a woman holding a handgun in each hand. How can she ever think this is appropriate, acceptable, or helpful to any of this?

View embedded media

It's what they want. They are happy Christian children were murdered by a trans person.

 

[randman1]

Auto-accidents used to be the #1 cause of death of kids. To mitigate that there are tons of regulations and laws, from speed limits, to airbags, seat-belts, lots of crashtest dummies, street & road changes.

Vehicles, traffic design, and drivers have all gotten safer due to people caring and due to no wealthy lobby against road safety.

The #1 cause as of 2020 is guns. And only a small amt of that is due to mental health (mass shootings and suicides). America's problem cannot be solved alone by mental health improvements. Let's start by adding some difficulty and delay to the process of earning the right to have a gun.

Um, no. The leading cause of death isn't guns and it's not even close.

In fact, as horrible as this shooting was and if it happened 1000 times a year and more, it's nothing compared to those dropping dead "suddenly" all the time (the vax), fentanyl deaths, and a whole host of things.

 

[tarheel0910]

Is that article about Biden or politician Christie? Would it have been written if Christie wasn't making such a big stink over something minor? Nope.

Biden has tons of gaffes, i think this is a weak one to try to pick on.

I would suggest reading the article if you want to know what it's about. It's easy. Just go left to right, top to bottom.

 

[blazers]

Um, no. The leading cause of death isn't guns and it's not even close.

In 2020, the leading cause of death among children ages one through 18 involved a firearm. There were 3,219 such deaths in 2020, followed by motor vehicle traffic deaths, of which there were 2,882.

in 2021, firearms were also the leader, accounting for nearly 19% of childhood deaths (ages 1-18) , according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Wonder database. Nearly 3,600 children died in gun-related incidents that yr. In no other comparable country are firearms within the top four causes of mortality among children, according to a KFF analysis.

In fact, as horrible as this shooting was and if it happened 1000 times a year and more, it's nothing compared to those dropping dead "suddenly" all the time (the vax), fentanyl deaths, and a whole host of things.

wow.

 

[blazers]

I would suggest reading the article if you want to know what it's about. It's easy. Just go left to right, top to bottom.

USAToday isn't reporting Biden or the white-house statements or reactions as news, and I think you know that. This wouldn't have been written in any direction or order without Christie's overreaction.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Auto-accidents used to be the #1 cause of death of kids. To mitigate that there are tons of regulations and laws, from speed limits, to airbags, seat-belts, lots of crashtest dummies, street & road changes.

Vehicles, traffic design, and drivers have all gotten safer due to people caring and due to no wealthy lobby against road safety.

The #1 cause as of 2020 is guns. And only a small amt of that is due to mental health (mass shootings and suicides). America's problem cannot be solved alone by mental health improvements. Let's start by adding some difficulty and delay to the process of earning the right to have a gun.

35% of gun deaths of children and adolescents was suicide (62% for adults). Suicide indicates mental health issues. That's not a small amount Are you trying to argue those same kids would not find another way to kill themselves?

My hypothesis is that drug overdose, which is now the 3rd or 4th leading cause of death among children and adolescents, would skyrocket and become 1st. And drugs are already illegal. That leads me to believe that changing the gun laws would amount to nothing. You're just moving the numbers from one category to another.

 

[randman1]

35% of gun deaths of children and adolescents was suicide (62% for adults). Suicide indicates mental health issues. That's not a small amount Are you trying to argue those same kids would not find another way to kill themselves?

My hypothesis is that drug overdose, which is now the 3rd or 4th leading cause of death among children and adolescents, would skyrocket and become 1st. And drugs are already illegal. That leads me to believe that changing the gun laws would amount to nothing. You're just moving the numbers from one category to another.

Yeah, his stats are kind of useless and cherry-picked for the pandemic.

You lock kids down. Make them wear a mask. Tell them they may be trans over and over again until some cave. Tell them they are either white oppressors or minority victims, etc,...

Teaching girls they are weird if they don't have all kinds of sex, group sex, gay sex, rough sex, and just about anything else out there. That their desires for a more wholesome life are evil, and they are evil scum as well, especially if they are white and if not, they are victims that can't make it on their own,

It's no wonder the suicide rate has risen. The woke folks are killing the kids.

 

[blazers]

35% of gun deaths of children and adolescents was suicide (62% for adults). Suicide indicates mental health issues. That's not a small amount Are you trying to argue those same kids would not find another way to kill themselves?

No, but what about the 65%. Even removing the suicides, you'd just bump gun-caused-deaths down to second-place. It isn't like this in other countries.

My hypothesis is that drug overdose, which is now the 3rd or 4th leading cause of death among children and adolescents, would skyrocket and become 1st. And drugs are already illegal.

Cancer is third.
Drug overdose is not the 3rd or 4th. Poisoning is 4th, it includes overdose.
Children 1-18 OD'ing on fentanyl (or whatever) is less common than you presume. More typical is that they're consuming these drugs the same way they accidentally consume other poisons. They aren't seeking a good buzz, they think the stuff is candy.

That leads me to believe that changing the gun laws would amount to nothing. You're just moving the numbers from one category to another.

What about the 65%, the 2,300 that aren't related to suicide?

 

[tarheel0910]

USAToday isn't reporting Biden or the white-house statements or reactions as news, and I think you know that. This wouldn't have been written in any direction or order without Christie's overreaction.

You're right, nothing about the statements except for this section:

What did President Joe Biden say?

"My name is Joe Biden. I'm Dr. Jill Biden's husband. I eat Jeni's ice cream – chocolate chip," Biden quipped Monday afternoon before his speech about the "sick" and "heartbreaking" shooting.

The crowd in the East Room of the White House laughed, and Biden doubled down.

"I came down because I heard there was chocolate chip ice cream. By the way, I have a whole refrigerator full upstairs," he said to more laughter. "You think I'm kidding? I'm not."

When Biden began his speech about Nashville, the president described it as a family's "worst nightmare" and said "we have to stop gun violence."

 

[pooponduke]

IN 2020 Every 2.5 days a child or teen was killed by an unintentional gun injury, majority handguns.

I'm not saying this is wrong, I don't know, but where exactly did you get this stat? Brady or some other reliable source, lol. Doing the math (365/2.5) would mean a total of 146 total? I'd be interested in knowing who is characterizing what and how as "unintentional".

Using your claim/chart later that there were a total of 3219 deaths of children in 2020, that would mean that there were 3,073 (3219 - 146) intentional deaths of children by firearms. The only intentional things I can think of (I'm sure you'll help me out if there are more) would be criminal acts and suicides. Therefore, if you address the mental health problem (not a gun's fault) to stop suicides and you address the crime problem (again, not legal guns fault), your outrage should subside.

Two additional issues. First, since the rate of gun injuries you cite is "majority handguns", waiving your wand and eliminating your scary looking assault weapons does very little.

Second, as I already pointed out in a prior post, this claim of firearm mortalities being the number one cause of children dying is severely flawed in their "study". The chart even on it's own face says "for children 1 - 19". I don't know about you, but you stop being a child at midnight of the day you are 17 yrs, 364 days old. This is particularly appalling when you consider that 18 is the adult voting age as well as age for military service where they are trained to carry and utilize fully automatic weapons - you know, actual "assault" weapons.

Thus, they intentionally skew the results by throwing in all of the 18 and 19 year old's. Of the number of 18 and 19 year old's who die from firearms, how many are engaged in illegal versus legal activities and of the illegal ones, how many do you think legally obtained those firearms?

Also, I haven't dug that far, but it's my understanding that the other categories do not include equivalent age groups and even start at later ages. Thus, the entire chart is an apples to oranges comparison (don't melt down over me using "orange") The point is that this is agenda driven stats to support a certain narrative. I know it's a narrative you agree with and want to be true to support your, ahem, bullet points, but at least try to be fair.

 

[gunslingerdick]

No, but what about the 65%. Even removing the suicides, you'd just bump gun-caused-deaths down to second-place. It isn't like this in other countries.

I was just correcting you regarding your statement that mental health plays a small role. 35% isn't small.

Cancer is third.
Drug overdose is not the 3rd or 4th. Poisoning is 4th, it includes overdose.
Children 1-18 OD'ing on fentanyl (or whatever) is less common than you presume. More typical is that they're consuming these drugs the same way they accidentally consume other poisons. They aren't seeking a good buzz, they think the stuff is candy.

Consuming "illegal" drugs? But they're illegal. How can they get illegal things?

What about the 65%, the 2,300 that aren't related to suicide?

What about them? Yes, their lives matter and of course it's a tragedy when they are taken. But tragedies happen. Are we going to infringe on 300 million people's rights to most likely see those same deaths by a different cause?


Guns aren't the problem. People are. And there's no fixing that. In other words, tragedies aren't fixable. They're a certainty. You're only changing the medium or the venue.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Um, no. The leading cause of death isn't guns and it's not even close.

In fact, as horrible as this shooting was and if it happened 1000 times a year and more, it's nothing compared to those dropping dead "suddenly" all the time (the vax), fentanyl deaths, and a whole host of things.

Ummm….thanks for dropping in on occasion to maintain your stranglehold on the title of the stupidest motherfukker to ever post in here.

 

[nctransplant]

Guns aren't the problem. People are. And there's no fixing that. In other words, tragedies aren't fixable. They're a certainty. You're only changing the medium or the venue.

/Thread

 

[strummingram]

Teaching girls they are weird if they don't have all kinds of sex, group sex, gay sex, rough sex, and just about anything else out there.

I know I've been spreading the word.

 

[pooponduke]

Does it matter why? It's a shit-ton of kids who died for no reason.... 2nd Amendment didn't intend this side-effect.

The why always matters because there is another side to the coin. Things like heroin and fentanyl are a huge problem for our society and are killing at an unprecedented rate. Under your way of thinking, the blanket idea that these drugs are bad and people are being killed by them, committing suicide with them, etc., we should ban all drugs. That means getting rid of your golden vax, getting rid of antibiotics, getting rid of heart medicine, etc. But. . . . . you would never do that because most drugs are good and you don't throw out the good just because of the bad??? Right????

What you refuse to ever accept or acknowledge are the benefits of firearms and why they are part of our Bill of Rights. But I don't even need to go there. Studies, including by the CDC, have shown that firearms are used defensively between 500,000 and 3,000,000 times each year. A huge percentage of them never result in an actual shot being fired and are not even reported to law enforcement. Of course, in your sphere of the msm and social media, it rarely gets reported or discussed even when a defensive use shooting takes place. It simply doesn't fit the narrative of any gun equals bad gun, unless it's security for politicians and rich Hollywood types of course.

 

[pooponduke]

I own several guns for the purpose of protecting myself and my family. I can successfully deal with 99.9% of situations that would affect me. None of the guns look anything like what the military uses nor what these mass murderers like to use.

Not having anything that looks like what the military uses simply means you don't have any variant of an AR-15. That's fine by me and it's your choice to buy and use what you like. That doesn't change the fact that the AR-15 is overwhelmingly the most popular rifle in our country. There are many reasons for this, but a big part is because it is a standardized system that the normal joe can customize and swap out components without the cost of or the learning curve of becoming a gunsmith. The parts are spec'ed so they are usually interchangeable and upgrades or variations in appearance can be made.

What most uneducated folks (which I'm not implying is yourself) don't realize is that at the end of the day, it's still just a semi-automatic rifle like almost every other semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine.

Btw, for those that have watched the body cam footage of the two police taking out the shooter in Nashville, one of them, Officer Michael Collazo, fired three shots into the shooter using a handgun that appears to be similar to or actually is a Glock (I haven't researched it because there are many quality made handguns and it doesn't matter) that is exactly like the one Blaze has.

 

[blazers]

Therefore, if you address the mental health problem (not a gun's fault) to stop suicides and you address the crime problem (again, not legal guns fault), your outrage should subside.

Guns are deadly though. I hope you don't believe the deadly crime acts involve assassins. Robberies, attacks, crimes of passion, gang violence, etc all happen in other countries too, just with less deadly weapons.

Two additional issues. First, since the rate of gun injuries you cite is "majority handguns", waiving your wand and eliminating your scary looking assault weapons does very little.

"waiving your wand and eliminating your scary looking assault weapons does very little." i'm on record saying that ALL guns should be harder to get and harder to keep.

For the average American guns are toys that happen to be more deadly than typical toys.

Second, as I already pointed out in a prior post, this claim of firearm mortalities being the number one cause of children dying is severely flawed in their "study". The chart even on it's own face says "for children 1 - 19". I don't know about you, but you stop being a child at midnight of the day you are 17 yrs, 364 days old. This is particularly appalling when you consider that 18 is the adult voting age as well as age for military service where they are trained to carry and utilize fully automatic weapons - you know, actual "assault" weapons.

Thus, they intentionally skew the results by throwing in all of the 18 and 19 year old's. Of the number of 18 and 19 year old's who die from firearms, how many are engaged in illegal versus legal activities and of the illegal ones, how many do you think legally obtained those firearms?

Also, I haven't dug that far, but it's my understanding that the other categories do not include equivalent age groups and even start at later ages. Thus, the entire chart is an apples to oranges comparison (don't melt down over me using "orange") The point is that this is agenda driven stats to support a certain narrative. I know it's a narrative you agree with and want to be true to support your, ahem, bullet points, but at least try to be fair.

All the numbers i've cited are 1-18. They remove infants (pre-1) since congenital issues are a big outlier.

 

[blazers]

The why always matters because there is another side to the coin. Things like heroin and fentanyl are a huge problem for our society and are killing at an unprecedented rate. Under your way of thinking, the blanket idea that these drugs are bad and people are being killed by them, committing suicide with them, etc., we should ban all drugs. That means getting rid of your golden vax, getting rid of antibiotics, getting rid of heart medicine, etc. But. . . . . you would never do that because most drugs are good and you don't throw out the good just because of the bad??? Right????

Lots of your takes are interesting, but this is dumb.
Drugs are good and bad. And we have rules, regs, laws, etc regarding the bad.

How are guns good compared to life-saving and life-changing drugs being good? What happens in countries with gun control? I can't shoot skeet on weekends?

Contrast quality of life in other countries that have gun control versus countries that don't have drugs?

 

[blazers]

What you refuse to ever accept or acknowledge are the benefits of firearms and why they are part of our Bill of Rights.

Bill of Rights, blessed upon Americans, should come with an obligation of responsibility - and people clearly aren't being responsible with their guns. Rights for certain things should come with background checks, licenses, delays, registration, training, red flag laws, penalty for crimes, etc.

Studies, including by the CDC, have shown that firearms are used defensively between 500,000 and 3,000,000 times each year. A huge percentage of them never result in an actual shot being fired and are not even reported to law enforcement.

What would happen if something other than a gun, something non-lethal, is used as part of that defense? Mace, tazers, etc? What happens in other countries?

 

[blazers]

Are we going to infringe on 300 million people's rights to most likely see those same deaths by a different cause?

You are assuming gun homicides are done by people purely intent on death. Death rates from crimes will change drastically if you remove guns from the crime.

And i'd say it depends on the right. What if the constitution stated everyone should have the right to drive thru stop signs? I'd say that right should be infringed upon if it meant fewer tragedies. It's a trade-off for being in a civil society.

 

[pooponduke]

All the numbers i've cited are 1-18.

This is objectively FALSE. Go back and read your own chart. It says "Firearm mortality rates per 100,000 for children ages 1 - 19 years"

 

[bluetoe]

As if guns don't cause hundreds of accidental deaths each yr.

Now why can't we all buy grenades at walmart and cabelas?

I guess you enjoy being an idiot. That's cool with me. Have fun.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Bill of Rights, blessed upon Americans, should come with an obligation of responsibility - and people clearly aren't being responsible with their guns.

I’m being responsible with mine and I don’t want to be inconvenienced or penalized because of others’ irresponsibility. I’m already screwed in that way with healthcare and welfare. I don’t want any more of having to pay for other people’s problems.

 

[bluetoe]

Auto-accidents used to be the #1 cause of death of kids. To mitigate that there are tons of regulations and laws, from speed limits, to airbags, seat-belts, lots of crashtest dummies, street & road changes.

Vehicles, traffic design, and drivers have all gotten safer due to people caring and due to no wealthy lobby against road safety.

The #1 cause as of 2020 is guns. And only a small amt of that is due to mental health (mass shootings and suicides). America's problem cannot be solved alone by mental health improvements. Let's start by adding some difficulty and delay to the process of earning the right to have a gun.

way back when the anti-gun movement was starting to roll, one of the major newsrags, Time I think, made a big deal of putting out an issue that listed every gun death from the previous year, and IIRC, included a picture of each victim with a short description of his/her demise. They made a big deal of the impressive number of gun deaths on the cover.

I bothered to read it.

What they didn't say in the buildup or on the cover, but revealed in the individual descriptions, was that over half the deaths were suicides. They were purposely hiding that fact in order to further demonize guns.

I don't want anyone to commit suicide, but if they are going to do it, a bullet to the brain seems much less troublesome than jumping from the 30th floor or driving a car into a bridge abutment at high speed..

 

[gunslingerdick]

Death rates from crimes will change drastically if you remove guns from the crime.

That’s an assumption on your part. You refuse to acknowledge the number of lives saved by firearms.