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OOTB's Political Thread . ..

ticket2ride04 said:
The report is stating that they didn’t feel they had enough evidence to bring charges against a sitting president and it’s not under their purview to recommend impeachment.
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It was widely reported for months that they couldn't charge a sitting president. It seems like I read that Muller also mentioned that in his report as well.

ticket2ride04 said:
They also clearly said they could not confirm Trump did not commit obstruction and collusion.
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I read about them saying they couldn't confirm or deny that there was obstruction. That was mentioned a few weeks ago. It was also mentioned that the report stated there was no collusion between Russia and Trump, but maybe the news outlet hadn't read the whole report when I was checking them out.

ticket2ride04 said:
They are basically handing it over to congress and putting the ball in their court.
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That's good since that's what they should do and it's probably all they could legally do anyway.

I feel like you are trying to spin something here and/or maybe you just weren't aware most of this stuff was already reported months ago. I don't mean to single you out or anything, I'm just surprised by your reaction since you've been pretty sensible about this in the past.
 
nctransplant said:
Supposedly the Tower meeting began as a meeting about adoption. The Russian chick began the convo about Hildabeast.
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From what I understand, the Russians used the pretense of dirt on Hilary to talk to them about adoption. The Trump team went there expecting to get some dirt. Either way, it's not a good thing that they tried to hide it at first.
 
nctransplant said:
Supposedly the Tower meeting began as a meeting about adoption. The Russian chick began the convo about Hildabeast.
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The Russian Tower stuff has already been debunked. It was a business meeting that went so poorly that Trump Jr evidently had someone fake phone call him so he could use that as an emergency to leave. The whole thing sounded like a bad date.
 
tarheel0910 said:
So the working with Russians was the Trump tower meeting? I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you meant there was something new discovered. It certainly is a bad thing that they tried to accept dirt from them, but I thought we had already covered that last year.
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tarheel0910 said:
It was widely reported for months that they couldn't charge a sitting president. It seems like I read that Muller also mentioned that in his report as well.


I read about them saying they couldn't confirm or deny that there was obstruction. That was mentioned a few weeks ago. It was also mentioned that the report stated there was no collusion between Russia and Trump, but maybe the news outlet hadn't read the whole report when I was checking them out.


That's good since that's what they should do and it's probably all they could legally do anyway.

I feel like you are trying to spin something here and/or maybe you just weren't aware most of this stuff was already reported months ago. I don't mean to single you out or anything, I'm just surprised by your reaction since you've been pretty sensible about this in the past.
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None of this is new to me but I haven’t had a chance to read it all. I will make an attempt this weekend. I was posting this info because @nctransplant denied Trump was working with the Russians(not illegal) to torpedo Hilary.

Mueller seems to be preserving evidence for Congress and perhaps the SDNY for when Trump is out of office. Reading between the lines, there was definitely obstruction but they just knew it was a non-starter against a sitting president.

Anyone see the excerpt where Sanders admits to making up shit about Comey and the FBI? I found it chuckle worthy.
 
ticket2ride04 said:
None of this is new to me but I haven’t had a chance to read it all. I will make an attempt this weekend. I was posting this info because @nctransplant denied Trump was working with the Russians(not illegal) to torpedo Hilary.

Mueller seems to be preserving evidence for Congress and perhaps the SDNY for when Trump is out of office. Reading between the lines, there was definitely obstruction but they just knew it was a non-starter against a sitting president.

Anyone see the excerpt where Sanders admits to making up shit about Comey and the FBI? I found it chuckle worthy.
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He wasn't working with the Russians. If he was working with the Russians, then Hillary was working with both the Ukranians and the Russians, due to her involvement with them, trying to get dirt on Trump.
 
ticket2ride04 said:
None of this is new to me but I haven’t had a chance to read it all. I will make an attempt this weekend. I was posting this info because @nctransplant denied Trump was working with the Russians(not illegal) to torpedo Hilary.
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I appreciate you trying to read it just for me, but there's no need to do that.

ticket2ride04 said:
Mueller seems to be preserving evidence for Congress and perhaps the SDNY for when Trump is out of office. Reading between the lines, there was definitely obstruction but they just knew it was a non-starter against a sitting president.
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That's not surprising to me. I think everyone pretty much agreed that a sitting president couldn't be charged, so it makes since that Muller would do that. I do wonder what the statute of limitations on obstruction is though. If Trump wins a second term that means he's in office until the beginning of 2025.

ticket2ride04 said:
Anyone see the excerpt where Sanders admits to making up shit about Comey and the FBI? I found it chuckle worthy.
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I read about that on CNN. Thought it was pretty funny, but not surprising.

It seems to me that the only thing that can come out of this in the near future is congress trying to do something. The dem leaders in the house have come out and said that impeachment is most likely a non starter. I guess the dems are going to try to use this to hurt Trump's image, but even his supporters don't think he's a stand up guy. Not really sure this makes much of a difference.
 
tarheel0910 said:
I appreciate you trying to read it just for me, but there's no need to do that.


That's not surprising to me. I think everyone pretty much agreed that a sitting president couldn't be charged, so it makes since that Muller would do that. I do wonder what the statute of limitations on obstruction is though. If Trump wins a second term that means he's in office until the beginning of 2025.


I read about that on CNN. Thought it was pretty funny, but not surprising.

It seems to me that the only thing that can come out of this in the near future is congress trying to do something. The dem leaders in the house have come out and said that impeachment is most likely a non starter. I guess the dems are going to try to use this to hurt Trump's image, but even his supporters don't think he's a stand up guy. Not really sure this makes much of a difference.
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Not for you but for me.

If he wins 2020, it won’t matter. But I think the SDNY might be sitting on some interesting stuff for when he leaves.

My guess is Dems will use pieces of the report to slander Trump like Pubs did to Hilary. It’s less about about flipping voters and more about bring out Dems votes who might have stayed home.
 
Page 9 plainly states there was no collusion. Hell even the MSM have given up on that one. I agree he left obstruction up to congress. What would suck for me and anyone else, just like Trump, is supposedly he attempted to obstruct something he was fausely accused of. They also state he complied completely with the SC.
The IG report coming out next month is where the rubber will hit the road.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
I appreciate you trying to read it just for me, but there's no need to do that.


That's not surprising to me. I think everyone pretty much agreed that a sitting president couldn't be charged, so it makes since that Muller would do that. I do wonder what the statute of limitations on obstruction is though. If Trump wins a second term that means he's in office until the beginning of 2025.


I read about that on CNN. Thought it was pretty funny, but not surprising.

It seems to me that the only thing that can come out of this in the near future is congress trying to do something. The dem leaders in the house have come out and said that impeachment is most likely a non starter. I guess the dems are going to try to use this to hurt Trump's image, but even his supporters don't think he's a stand up guy. Not really sure this makes much of a difference.
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Trump could have shut down the investigation whenver he wanted, but he didn't. He could have not let Mueller interview his team in the White House, but he did. Trump could have not turned over all those papers, but he did. The Dems are going to have a nigh impossible task convicting Trump of obstruction.

And let's also get one other thing clear. Trump has been way harsher on Russia than Obama was, which isn't a good thing in my mind, but it's the truth. He armed the Ukranians to fight against the Russians, which Obama wouldn't do. He's pressured Germany to buy their natural gas from us instead of Russian. His administration is actively trying to overthrow Venezuela, which is a big Russian ally. Finally, he's bombed Russian Syrian interests, which Obama wouldn't do either. So let's stop with all these accusations that he's in league with the Russians.
 
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nctransplant said:
Page 9 plainly states there was no collusion. Hell even the MSM have given up on that one. I agree he left obstruction up to congress. What would suck for me and anyone else, just like Trump, is supposedly he attempted to obstruct something he was fausely accused of. They also state he complied completely with the SC.
The IG report coming out next month is where the rubber will hit the road.
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States they could not prove Trump team colluded because they didn’t illegally obtain information. But they absolutely worked with Russia to hurt Hilary. I’m kind of surprised Mueller didn’t charge him with obstruction because it’s pretty clear he did. But as we’ve all said, you can’t charge a sitting president. I doubt congress does anything with this and frankly, impeachment would be a bad idea other than to discredit Trump further. No one wants President Pence.

Dems are copying the Pub playbook used on Hilary. I thought it was petty and a bad idea when they continued to investigate Hilary but it worked. We’ll see how this plays out.
 
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nctransplant said:
Page 9 plainly states there was no collusion. Hell even the MSM have given up on that one. I agree he left obstruction up to congress. What would suck for me and anyone else, just like Trump, is supposedly he attempted to obstruct something he was fausely accused of. They also state he complied completely with the SC.
The IG report coming out next month is where the rubber will hit the road.
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The only real legit accusation of corruption that they have is that Trump instructed someone to fire Mueller, which they refused to do. Now, Trump's reasoning was that Mueller had a conflict of interest in the case. Now, I don't know what he felt that conflict was, and I rather doubt it will ever come out, but if he did it because he didn't feel he was getting a fair shake, that isn't obstruction.
 
tarheel0910 said:
Not exactly. They wanted to meet with him and ask him follow up questions to his written response since he didn't give details or said he couldn't remember. He refused to do so. I wouldn't call that completely complying.
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You can't really make that claim because they never followed through with the meeting. They figured that he would just take the fifth, so they didn't even try. That's being disengenuous.
 
NoleSoup4U said:
You can't really make that claim because they never followed through with the meeting. They figured that he would just take the fifth, so they didn't even try. That's being disengenuous.
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What are you talking about? Trump refused to meet with them when he was asked. You can't follow through with a meeting when the person wouldn't meet with you.
 
tarheel0910 said:
What are you talking about? Trump refused to meet with them when he was asked. You can't follow through with a meeting when the person wouldn't meet with you.
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They could have forced him to answer questions, but they didn't. And they didn't because they knew he would just take the fifth like he should. This has all been covered already.
 
tarheel0910 said:
What are you talking about? Trump refused to meet with them when he was asked. You can't follow through with a meeting when the person wouldn't meet with you.
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To that end, this was mentioned by the Mueller team trying to prove collusion. They had no power to subpoena foreign agents. They note some odd things happen but they can’t corroborate deleted texts and phone exchanges. Kind of like the the ncaa can’t make the jeweler talk about his relationship with lance Thomas.
 
NoleSoup4U said:
They could have forced him to answer questions, but they didn't. And they didn't because they knew he would just take the fifth like he should. This has all been covered already.
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Or Trump could have just said, no problem want to meet at my place after lunch? That would have been complete cooperation. Forcing them to go to court to do something isn't cooperation.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
Or Trump could have just said, no problem want to meet at my place after lunch? That would have been complete cooperation. Forcing them to go to court to do something isn't cooperation.
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100% that dope would have perjured himself. His ego probably wanted to do it but I’m sure his lawyers kept him from doing it.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
Or Trump could have just said, no problem want to meet at my place after lunch? That would have been complete cooperation. Forcing them to go to court to do something isn't cooperation.
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Why would he have volunteered if he was just going to take the fifth? That doesn't make any sense. It isn't Trump's job to do Mueller's job for him. If Mueller really wanted to talk to Trump he would have sent out a subpoena. Look, this thing took 22 months. I'm guessing they didn't leave any stones unturned. This obstruction stuff is just something people are holding onto because the collusion accusations completely fell apart.
 
NoleSoup4U said:
Why would he have volunteered if he was just going to take the fifth? That doesn't make any sense. It isn't Trump's job to do Mueller's job for him. If Mueller really wanted to talk to Trump he would have sent out a subpoena. Look, this thing took 22 months. I'm guessing they didn't leave any stones unturned. This obstruction stuff is just something people are holding onto because the collusion accusations completely fell apart.
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You're missing the point of this conversation. @nctransplant said he completely cooperated. That's not true because he wouldn't agree to a sit down interview with Muller. That's all we are talking about. You are trying to change the topic because you've been Van Dammed. I just hope you don't result to personal insults for the third day in a row after being Van Dammed.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
You're missing the point of this conversation. @nctransplant said he completely cooperated. That's not true because he wouldn't agree to a sit down interview with Muller. That's all we are talking about. You are trying to change the topic because you've been Van Dammed. I just hope you don't result to personal insults for the third day in a row after being Van Dammed.
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He did completely cooperate. He gave the Mueller team everything they asked for. Just because he didn't jump through hoops for them doesn't mean he didn't cooperate. Obviously, the Mueller team felt subpoenaing him was a waste of time.
 
NoleSoup4U said:
He did completely cooperate. He gave the Mueller team everything they asked for. Just because he didn't jump through hoops for them doesn't mean he didn't cooperate. Obviously, the Mueller team felt subpoenaing him was a waste of time.
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Per Webster's:

Complete
1a : having all necessary parts, elements, or steps
b of a protein : containing all essential amino acids
2a : total, absolute
b : fully carried out: thorough
c of a football pass: legally caught
3 : brought to an end : concluded a complete period of time

Cooperate
1 : to act or work with another or others : act together or in compliance refused to cooperate with the police
2 : to associate with another or others for mutual benefit


So, per Webster's and the commonly accepted definition of words, Trump didn't completely cooperate since Muller asked for and didn't get a meeting. You've been Van Dammed again.
 
NoleSoup4U said:
The only real legit accusation of corruption that they have is that Trump instructed someone to fire Mueller, which they refused to do. Now, Trump's reasoning was that Mueller had a conflict of interest in the case. Now, I don't know what he felt that conflict was, and I rather doubt it will ever come out, but if he did it because he didn't feel he was getting a fair shake, that isn't obstruction.
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The conflict of interest was because he interviewed with Trump the day before he was appointed SC.
 
ticket2ride04 said:
100% that dope would have perjured himself. His ego probably wanted to do it but I’m sure his lawyers kept him from doing it.
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The 302's also showed the FBI didn't think Flynn lied but they charged him anyway. Hell I can't remember who I talked to yesterday much less last year.
 
tarheel0910 said:
Per Webster's:

Complete
1a : having all necessary parts, elements, or steps
b of a protein : containing all essential amino acids
2a : total, absolute
b : fully carried out: thorough
c of a football pass: legally caught
3 : brought to an end : concluded a complete period of time

Cooperate
1 : to act or work with another or others : act together or in compliance refused to cooperate with the police
2 : to associate with another or others for mutual benefit


So, per Webster's and the commonly accepted definition of words, Trump didn't completely cooperate since Muller asked for and didn't get a meeting. You've been Van Dammed again.
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Not that it matters but I watched one of Clintons lawyers this morning state that they would have never cooperated to the extent Trump did. Trump also could have claimed executive privilege with any part of the report a la Holder/obama fast and furious but he didn't.
 
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nctransplant said:
Not that it matters but I watched one of Clintons lawyers this morning state that they would have never cooperated to the extent Trump did. Trump also could have claimed executive privilege with any part of the report a la Holder/obama fast and furious but he didn't.
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I'm not saying the man tried to stonewall Muller at every turn. All I'm saying is that his cooperation wasn't complete as it has been suggested.
 
nctransplant said:
Fair enough. Is this where I call you poopie head now?
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tenor.gif
 
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NoleSoup4U said:
It was as complete as it needed to be. Who in their right mind would go out of their way to help someone who was investigating them?
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Dang, how hard is it for you to just admit that his cooperation wasn't complete? I discovered years ago that the sooner you own up to being wrong the better. Not doing so makes you look foolish like you do right now.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Eh, I've bought in on the no borders, fully global, mantra. We're all one people. Doesn't matter if he was working with Russians or Iowans.
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I’m actually kind of torn on this. If there wasn’t anything shady with Hilary, it wouldn’t matter. At the same time, I don’t want us working with any country, let alone an adversary like Russia.
 
ticket2ride04 said:
I’m actually kind of torn on this. If there wasn’t anything shady with Hilary, it wouldn’t matter. At the same time, I don’t want us working with any country, let alone an adversary like Russia.
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Gotta get more global man. @uncboy10 can tell you about the benefits of working with other countries, and @strummingram can tell you about how Russians are Americans and Americans are Russians at the end of the day anyways.
 
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