OOTB's Political Thread . ..

[gunslingerdick]

I mentioned “a la carte” taxes over a decade ago. But would there be any better way to tell what Americans actually want to support? Military and infrastructure and maybe a couple other things that ALL Americans benefit from would have a set percentage that every person’s taxes would go towards. But after that, if you want yours to go to the Ukraine fund, then when that year is over, whatever the total the Ukraine fund raised in taxes would be what we give to Ukraine. I would not give towards that. I may prefer to put towards the Border wall fund. And then whatever that year’s contributions added up to would fund that project.

We would get a real look at what American tax payers want to support instead of crooked politicians writing bills because of the kickbacks they individually get.

 

[blazers]

But the uber wealthy are the ones making the country prosperous.

Look at the change over the last decades though. The country has been booming and prosperous for a very long time, but the wealth is WAY more concentrated at the top the past few decades. Did America go from shit-hole to gold-mine suddenly? No.

Haven't we always been the worlds currency standard the last century? Have we always had free trade, ample resources, commerce-friendly infrastructure and geography, low corp taxes, business-friendly labor laws? Does the worker-harder culture stop at the top or does it apply to all Americans?

In the past few decades wealth inequality has skyrocketed, GDP too, but while debt has skyrocketed... hmmm.

 

[blazers]

I may prefer to put towards the Border wall fund.

So Steven Bannon can steal them for a boat, then Trump can pardon Bannon?

 

[Heels Noir]

So Steven Bannon can steal them for a boat, then Trump can pardon Bannon?

Thank you for the classroom lesson on economics, blazers. As I get older and my wife's and my earnings grow, we're always trying to learn better ways to manage our money and invest our savings (with the help of professionals, of course).

What is most enjoyable here is watching you educate those who would rather criticize your knowledge of wealth. Keep it up!

 

[nctransplant]

Thank you for the classroom lesson on economics, blazers. As I get older and my wife and my earnings grow, we're always trying to learn better ways to manage our money and invest our savings (with the help of professionals, of course).

What is most enjoyable here is watching you educated those who would rather criticize and/or insult your knowledge of wealth. Keep it up!

Is your wife an English teacher by chance?

 

[Heels Noir]

 

[pooponduke]

View embedded media

Education through comedy perhaps? Can you see the inconsistency of claiming this as Trump's bible?

 

[gunslingerdick]

So Steven Bannon can steal them for a boat, then Trump can pardon Bannon?

So an irrelevant comment instead of addressing the larger point? Gotcha.

 

[nctransplant]

So Steven Bannon can steal them for a boat, then Trump can pardon Bannon?

I'm willing to bet that there's another pardon on the way...

 

[tarheel0910]

1. Calculate/determine the true tax rate after you define true income (not just wages) that make up wealth you've gleaned because of being a fortunate American. Valuing assets is tricky, but not impossible. That is your starting point.

My calculator gave me an error message when I typed that. Can you try your calculator since I asked for a number and not a vague definition?

2. Raise revenue to help reduce deficit.

Either you don't know the amount it would raise or you aren't familiar with how big the deficit is.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Look at the change over the last decades though. The country has been booming and prosperous for a very long time, but the wealth is WAY more concentrated at the top the past few decades. Did America go from shit-hole to gold-mine suddenly? No.

Haven't we always been the worlds currency standard the last century? Have we always had free trade, ample resources, commerce-friendly infrastructure and geography, low corp taxes, business-friendly labor laws? Does the worker-harder culture stop at the top or does it apply to all Americans?

In the past few decades wealth inequality has skyrocketed, GDP too, but while debt has skyrocketed... hmmm.

Life is not equal. Some people will undoubtedly have it better than others. Should I be penalized for being smarter and better looking than you? Of course not. That’s absurd.

There are those that are more fortunate and those that are less fortunate. We should not penalize those more fortunate, especially when we have so little say in how benefits are extended to those less fortunate and the efficiency of such a process.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

countries? You mean countries with borders that keep them separate from other geopolitical entities such that people can't just freely cross over them

Why don't we dig a huge canal all along the southern border? So much better than a fence or wall. Plus it would be beneficial for trade.

Won't be cheap, but if you want a job done right ....

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

My calculator gave me an error message when I typed that. Can you try your calculator since I asked for a number and not a vague definition?

42

 

[nctransplant]

Why don't we dig a huge canal all along the southern border? So much better than a fence or wall. Plus it would be beneficial for trade.

Won't be cheap, but if you want a job done right ....

This has been discussed before here. We want sharks with lasers in it as well.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Why don't we dig a huge canal all along the southern border? So much better than a fence or wall. Plus it would be beneficial for trade.

Won't be cheap, but if you want a job done right ....

Now we’re f*ckin talking! For the record, I suggested this years ago. And I had sharks armed with lethal laser beams strapped to the shark’s back. Probably controlled from a central location where ICE can watch on monitors. Let nature take the first swing but if they fail, you tag them with the laser beams and the sharks stay well fed.

Great minds think alike.

 

[gunslingerdick]

This has been discussed before here. We want alligators with lasers in it as well.

Sharks, dammit!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

2. Raise revenue to help reduce deficit.

Either you don't know the amount it would raise or you aren't familiar with how big the deficit is.

Surely you aren't saying raising revenues with the purpose of reducing the deficit is a bad idea, or wouldn't help?

Or are you?

If you'll agree to raise revenues enough to pay existing bills, I'll agree to negotiate in good faith to cut spending in the next budget.

Deal?

 

[nctransplant]

Sharks, dammit!

I did a @Heels Noir on my poast!

 

[Heels Noir]

Education through comedy perhaps? Can you see the inconsistency of claiming this as Trump's bible?

Trump's bible is something he's selling for $59.99. Project 2025 is more like Trump's playbook.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Trump's bible is something he's selling for $59.99. Project 2025 is more like Trump's playbook.

To be fair, Trump's playbook would be the CliffsNotes version of Project 2025.

Or maybe the comic book version.

 

[tarheel0910]

42

Cents or dollars?

 

[Heels Noir]

I had sharks armed with lethal laser beams strapped to the shark’s back.

Which species of sharks did you have in mind, professor?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Cents or dollars?

Yes.

 

[Heels Noir]

I did a @Heels Noir on my poast!

Hey, you're the biology nerd. Which species of sharks would you stock our border canal with?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Which species of sharks did you have in mind, professor?

Definitely bull sharks. They’re highly aggressive and because of their advanced osmoregulation abilities, they can tolerate varying levels of salinity. I’m imagining these moats will consist of brackish waters.

Do you concur?

 

[nctransplant]

Hey, you're the biology nerd. Which species of sharks would you stock our border canal with?

Great whites and Tiger sharks.

 

[nctransplant]

Definitely bull sharks. They’re highly aggressive and because of their advanced osmoregulation abilities, they can tolerate varying levels of salinity. I’m imagining these moats will consist of brackish waters.

Do you concur?

I had already budgeted for a salt water moat. It's a fraction of the cost of housing illegals.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

They actually aren't paying a higher % due to loopholes. That seems unfair.

We're taxing income (wages and a few other things), but not wealth, but in this era income isn't well defined, since salary alone isn't an accurate measure and asset appreciation isn't realized due to loopholes. Some uber-weathy take zero salary. Bezos took an 80k salary. They all have tricks to minimize the current definition of income to the extent that
"IRS records reveal that 18 billionaires and some 250 other ultrawealthy people received the covid stimulus checks for low-middle earners". George Soros and his son both got checks! (they graciously returned them).

And the tax code helps wealthy people in ways that poor/middle can't use for their benefit. The super-rich milk these, poor (or people paycheck to paycheck) cannot:

Mortgate interest
ROTH iras
Tax loss harvesting
Business expenses that are actually play expenses. Yachts used for "business meetings"
Being paid in stock instead of income.
Bequeathing stock to fam who don't pay capital gain taxes.
Avoiding capital gains by borrowing with low rates and only spending what you borrow.
"philanthropic" tax avoidance.
Selling assets you inherit but not ones you buy.
Carryforward rules.
Plenty of other deductions.

I'm in favor of closing some of these "loopholes", like what you can put in a Roth IRA. You should only be able to put publicly investable assets into a tax sheltered account, not founder's shares of some startup that only you have access to. And I'm also for taxing funds derived from lending assets, treating it as a capital gain similar to if you had sold the asset (the investor would get a cost basis step up as a result so they're not double taxed when they do indeed sell the asset).

I don't like that last graphic though, that calculates a supposed "true tax rate" off of their wealth growth. That can easily go in the other direction as you note here:

Musk paid 44 billion for twitter, it is now work 13 billion. In a single yr he lost 30B

If we taxed his wealth growth of $14B from your graphic, do we hand him double that amount back the next year when he loses $30B? That'd be a complete shitshow. And if we didn't, then the whole idea is a complete non-starter.

 

[heelmanwilm]

buncha rookies. Hippos and crocs is the the answer

 

[nctransplant]

buncha rookies. Hippos and crocs is the the answer

I'd be for adding crocs to the moat. And throw in some Irukandji jelly fish.

 

[gunslingerdick]

buncha rookies. Hippos and crocs is the the answer

Already thought of them. Won’t work. They’re mortal enemies do you’d have to keep restocking because adult hippos would kill young crocs and vice versa. Believe me, I’ve been working on this for some time.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Without this nation being so prosperous these people wouldn't be so rich, so fairness is them supporting the nation which is making them rich.

This a chicken or egg argument. Are these people getting rich because they live/work/innovate in a nation that is just naturally so prosperous all by itself? Or is the nation considered to be so prosperous because it has, and has had, a large number of world class innovators over time that have built it into being that?

Setting tax rules up to disincentivize rich people from making more money and creating more wealth only encourages them to go elsewhere. I get what you are arguing in terms of whether someone has 1B or 999M is irrelevant, but if your setup, by design, is to simply make it so that 1B is now becoming 600M, while it means nothing impactful on them personally, they aren't hanging around to let you do that. They're going somewhere else and sitting on their 1B. Either way, your policy has done nothing to get more revenue.

And herein lies the rub. There becomes a point where it doesn't make economic sense for companies and innovators to domicile their business and live in the US if their earning potential is handicapped significantly. Admittedly, we're a far way away from that, but playing the logic out to its conclusion makes sense when developing policy.

 

[Heels Noir]

Great whites and Tiger sharks.

@gunslingerdick is correct. Bull sharks would not only be ideal for their aggressive behavior but also their ability to adapt. Even a minor drop in salinity levels would prove lethal for tiger sharks, and great whites are a cold water species, hardly a fit for shallow waters that in the summer could reach 90°.

Some biology student you must have been. I imagine your entire knowledge of the aquatic world stems from watching the movie JAWS, yeah?

 

[nctransplant]

@gunslingerdick is correct. Bull sharks would not only be ideal for their aggressive behavior but also their ability to adapt. A drop in salinity levels would prove lethal for tiger sharks and great whites are a cold-water species, hardly fit for shallow waters that in the summer could reach 90°.

Some biology student you must have been. I imagine your entire knowledge of the aquatic world derives from watching the movie JAWS, yeah?

First, I have budgeted for the salinity issue, second the moat will be climate-controlled at the ideal temperature, and finally, we haven't even discussed the depth of the moat.

 

[blazers]

If we taxed his wealth growth of $14B from your graphic, do we hand him double that amount back the next year when he loses $30B? That'd be a complete shitshow. And if we didn't, then the whole idea is a complete non-starter.

That's a good point. And the liquidity thing is tricky, plus valuations. There's gotta be a way for their "true" or effective tax rate to be determined though, so that Warren Buffet's secretaries aren't paying more federal taxes than he is.

 

[nctransplant]

That's a good point. And the liquidity thing is tricky, plus valuations. There's gotta be a way for their "true" or effective tax rate to be determined though, so that Warren Buffet's secretaries aren't paying more federal taxes than he is.

You do know that you can send the government more money anytime you'd like, right?

 

[blazers]

My calculator gave me an error message when I typed that. Can you try your calculator since I asked for a number and not a vague definition?


Either you don't know the amount it would raise or you aren't familiar with how big the deficit is.

Fears that more taxing only equals more spending aren't a valid excuse for not doing something that can reduce the nation's deficit. Cutting spending is one idea, increasing revenue is another.

 

[blazers]

You do know that you can send the government more money anytime you'd like, right?

You are a true patriot. Thanks for your sacrifices.

 

[nctransplant]

You are a true patriot. Thanks for your sacrifices.

I do what I can. I never carried a gun in a war zone though.

 

[Heels Noir]

First, I have budgeted for the salinity issue, second the moat will be climate-controlled at the ideal temperature, and finally, we haven't even discussed the depth of the moat.

Maybe you should have studied engineering instead.