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OOTB's Political Thread . ..

Yes, it is DEFINITELY an "interpretation", no doubt about that!

I wasn't offering those "interpretations" to suggest that Sanders is a Castro Commie. I was simply showing that there are an abundance of programs and functions in our government and everyday lives, that we take for granted, that ARE "Socialism". It's not Communism, no! What I was trying to show is that Americans think they fear "Communism"... but, I think it's more residual fear propagated by generations of post-WWII/Cold War fear of the USSR. I don't think the USSR was a pure example of Communism. They, and Red China, seemed to be more like dictatorships, to me.

I didn't think that was what you meant. I just didn't think the examples from those quotes were sound evidence that the US has interpreted the pillars of Communism.

Cold War propaganda definitely still has some residual effect. The fact that Bernie triggers red scare hysteria in so many people is evidence of that. If he was a politician in Europe he'd probably be considered center left.
 
It will be interesting to see who Bernie picks as VP if he gets the nomination. With his age and recent health issues, that's going to be an important pick because he will be attacked relentlessly on that.

The VP pick will be yuge. I would imagine its going to be a woman, and probably a woman of color.

My first choice would be Tulsi Gabbard. Young, attractive woman with a service background. For some reason moderates like her a lot more than Bernie despite the fact that she agrees with almost every single one of his platform positions.

He could take Warren. If she drops before Super Tuesday and throws her support behind Bernie then that could possibly prevent a brokered convention. She gets the perfect springboard to run after Bernie, and string together multiple progressive administrations.

Or he could shock the world and convince Michelle Obama to be his running mate. The entire country would lose its mind. The Fox News headlines would be a comedy gold mine that would last for decades.
 
The VP pick will be yuge. I would imagine its going to be a woman, and probably a woman of color.

My first choice would be Tulsi Gabbard. Young, attractive woman with a service background. For some reason moderates like her a lot more than Bernie despite the fact that she agrees with almost every single one of his platform positions.

He could take Warren. If she drops before Super Tuesday and throws her support behind Bernie then that could possibly prevent a brokered convention. She gets the perfect springboard to run after Bernie, and string together multiple progressive administrations.

Or he could shock the world and convince Michelle Obama to be his running mate. The entire country would lose its mind. The Fox News headlines would be a comedy gold mine that would last for decades.
If he picks Tulsi? I'm ALL IN!
 
I'm starting to think Bloomberg might buy his way into the nomination. I've seen three of his commercials in the last hour. It's almost like a brainwashing.
 
The VP pick will be yuge. I would imagine its going to be a woman, and probably a woman of color.

My first choice would be Tulsi Gabbard. Young, attractive woman with a service background. For some reason moderates like her a lot more than Bernie despite the fact that she agrees with almost every single one of his platform positions.

He could take Warren. If she drops before Super Tuesday and throws her support behind Bernie then that could possibly prevent a brokered convention. She gets the perfect springboard to run after Bernie, and string together multiple progressive administrations.

Or he could shock the world and convince Michelle Obama to be his running mate. The entire country would lose its mind. The Fox News headlines would be a comedy gold mine that would last for decades.

I think i heard Bernie said he's going to pick based on ideology and not purely based on identity politics, which is admirable, assuming it's true (but I guess, what else would he say)

Warren, as evidenced by her changing stances, would pick Donald Jr. if she thought it would give her a better chance to win.

I think Yang would be a good pick to ease concerns of those on the fence that capitalism isn't going to be just steamrolled by a Bolshevik tank on day one. Even though that obviously couldn't happen.

I think whoever he picks will need to have appeal from moderates for actually being president. I assume Trump will hit Bernie hard on the average life of a heart attack survivor of his age not getting him through his first term.
 
I think i heard Bernie said he's going to pick based on ideology and not purely based on identity politics, which is admirable, assuming it's true (but I guess, what else would he say)

Warren, as evidenced by her changing stances, would pick Donald Jr. if she thought it would give her a better chance to win.

I think Yang would be a good pick to ease concerns of those on the fence that capitalism isn't going to be just steamrolled by a Bolshevik tank on day one. Even though that obviously couldn't happen.

I think whoever he picks will need to have appeal from moderates for actually being president. I assume Trump will hit Bernie hard on the average life of a heart attack survivor of his age not getting him through his first term.

Yang would be a really good pick IMO but possibly not the strongest move from a strategical standpoint. Most of Yang’s supporters have probably already switched over to supporting Bernie.

Bernie isn’t anti-capitalism. He just doesn’t think billionaires should control our political system or be able to dodge taxes.
 
That’s interesting. Why do you think he was so bad?
Short answer

-The new deal
-His attempt to destroy and/or control the supreme court
-His attempt to be a dictator by continuing to seek reelection
 
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Short answer

-The new deal
-His attempt to destroy and/or control the supreme court
-His attempt to be a dictator by continuing to seek reelection
It honestly makes no sense to me how anyone in the republican party or in the middle, doesn't consider FDR one of the worst presidents in our history. With his blatant racism, the left should consider him one of the worst as well.
 
Do you just say shit to say it and don’t care if you’re not accurate?

The Dow was at 26,091 a year ago. It closed at 27,960 today. It’s still up nearly 2,000 points since this point last year.

Not to mention just looking at the price of the index doesn't take into account dividends paid out over that time.
 
It honestly makes no sense to me how anyone in the republican party or in the middle, doesn't consider FDR one of the worst presidents in our history. With his blatant racism, the left should consider him one of the worst as well.
All good points. Not saying I agree with all of them but good points none the same.
 
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Now that I see the media is on full-attack mode on Bernie, it makes me think he must be a threat. I had that feeling about Trump, except I knew Trump was doing it all as a goof to get revenge on Obama's insulting him in public. Then he did his instinctive thing and backed-into a situation that was more than he really wanted to do. But, all he needs are screaming fans to remain unaware.

Sanders isn't as dumb as Trump. He understands the machinations of government. He has an understanding of history. He even has empathy for other human beings. I don't think his conscience has been seared like most politicians.
 
Short answer

-The new deal
-His attempt to destroy and/or control the supreme court
-His attempt to be a dictator by continuing to seek reelection

Ignoring him being correct about most decisions that needed to be made re: WW2 is a huge omission from discussing his legacy. It's like saying, well I didn't like Lincoln cuz I don't agree with upward mobility policy.
 
FDR had the 2nd worst conditions in our history to contend with when he entered office. He was elected 4 times. He didn't refuse to leave office... the people wanted him. I don't agree with a lot of what he actually did. But, I don't care for most politicians, anyway. They remind me too much of preachers.
 
Now that I see the media is on full-attack mode on Bernie, it makes me think he must be a threat. I had that feeling about Trump, except I knew Trump was doing it all as a goof to get revenge on Obama's insulting him in public. Then he did his instinctive thing and backed-into a situation that was more than he really wanted to do. But, all he needs are screaming fans to remain unaware.

Sanders isn't as dumb as Trump. He understands the machinations of government. He has an understanding of history. He even has empathy for other human beings. I don't think his conscience has been seared like most politicians.

The companies that own the major media outlets all would prefer trump over Bernie. If Bernie wins then their taxes go up, and they’re more likely to face anti-trust suits.

They’re going to go hard the week before Super Tuesday. Then they’ll push the brokered convention narrative and keep talking about how he’s unelectable and the DNC should choose someone else.
 
The companies that own the major media outlets all would prefer trump over Bernie. If Bernie wins then their taxes go up, and they’re more likely to face anti-trust suits.

They’re going to go hard the week before Super Tuesday. Then they’ll push the brokered convention narrative and keep talking about how he’s unelectable and the DNC should choose someone else.
Whew! That's good news!
 
Ignoring him being correct about most decisions that needed to be made re: WW2 is a huge omission from discussing his legacy. It's like saying, well I didn't like Lincoln cuz I don't agree with upward mobility policy.
You're stating that his decisions during WW2 were correct is an opinion. You can easily make the argument that he screwed up most of those decisions. We are still dealing with the domestic mistakes he made today and will most likely be dealing with them for the rest of history. I would say that outweighs any of his WW2 decisions.

FDR had the 2nd worst conditions in our history to contend with when he entered office.
It doesn't matter what he had to contend with, it's his actions to "fix" those conditions that matter.

He was elected 4 times. He didn't refuse to leave office... the people wanted him.
Was he forced to run for reelection? If not, then he refused to leave. He knew he would get reelected, just like most dictators who hold "elections" do. He could have easily upheld tradition and left after two terms.
 
You're stating that his decisions during WW2 were correct is an opinion. You can easily make the argument that he screwed up most of those decisions. We are still dealing with the domestic mistakes he made today and will most likely be dealing with them for the rest of history. I would say that outweighs any of his WW2 decisions.


It doesn't matter what he had to contend with, it's his actions to "fix" those conditions that matter.


Was he forced to run for reelection? If not, then he refused to leave. He knew he would get reelected, just like most dictators who hold "elections" do. He could have easily upheld tradition and left after two terms.
Ah, traditions. Well, traditions are fine... until they're impediments. Just because something is a tradition doesn't mean it's still working. Thank goodness our medical community isn't hung-up on traditions.

And, the circumstances/conditions don't matter now? Okay, that's cool. I agree that the actions definitely matter. I'm sure Herbert Hoover would have been a much better choice, right?

What re your beefs about how he handled World War II? I realize that's broad, but, you can be specific.
 
“Medal of freedom” award winner rush Limbaugh claims the coronavirus originated in a Chinese lab and was “weaponized” for the purpose of bringing down trump. And btw he pointed out that Bernie sanders wants to turn the us into China.

yea we’ve really lowered the bar for receiving the medal of freedom evidently
 
“Medal of freedom” award winner rush Limbaugh claims the coronavirus originated in a Chinese lab and was “weaponized” for the purpose of bringing down trump. And btw he pointed out that Bernie sanders wants to turn the us into China.

yea we’ve really lowered the bar for receiving the medal of freedom evidently
Maybe when Rush comes on you could change channels?
 
Most people don’t realize how close Europe/Britain was to being completely Nazi in 1941 and how FDR was instrumental to that not happening.
 
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Poor Bernie. I have a feeling there is an endless supply of this kind of thing.

 
Ah, traditions. Well, traditions are fine... until they're impediments. Just because something is a tradition doesn't mean it's still working. Thank goodness our medical community isn't hung-up on traditions.
True, but I would love to know how only serving two terms was an impediment and what exactly it was an impediment to? Was the country going to end if he didn't serve forever?

And, the circumstances/conditions don't matter now? Okay, that's cool. I agree that the actions definitely matter. I'm sure Herbert Hoover would have been a much better choice, right?
When trying to judge a president's term, how he handles the situation is the most important. I don't know enough about Hoover's theoretical presidency to know if it would have been better. I can only judge what FDR did.

What re your beefs about how he handled World War II? I realize that's broad, but, you can be specific.
His treatment of Jews and his inaction at the beginning of the war. Internment camps probably wasn't the best idea either. I guess that's still kinda broad, but that should give you a general idea of my beefs.
 
“Medal of freedom” award winner rush Limbaugh claims the coronavirus originated in a Chinese lab and was “weaponized” for the purpose of bringing down trump. And btw he pointed out that Bernie sanders wants to turn the us into China.

yea we’ve really lowered the bar for receiving the medal of freedom evidently
I could see the Chinese trying to engage in biological warfare. It wouldn't be the first time a country has done that. I wouldn't say it was specifically related to Trump or even meant for use outside of China. I'm sure this type of thing has been going on for a long time.
 
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Ignoring him being correct about most decisions that needed to be made re: WW2 is a huge omission from discussing his legacy. It's like saying, well I didn't like Lincoln cuz I don't agree with upward mobility policy.
Winston Churchill would disagree.
 
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You're stating that his decisions during WW2 were correct is an opinion. You can easily make the argument that he screwed up most of those decisions. We are still dealing with the domestic mistakes he made today and will most likely be dealing with them for the rest of history. I would say that outweighs any of his WW2 decisions.


It doesn't matter what he had to contend with, it's his actions to "fix" those conditions that matter.


Was he forced to run for reelection? If not, then he refused to leave. He knew he would get reelected, just like most dictators who hold "elections" do. He could have easily upheld tradition and left after two terms.
Good points.
To say that any pol, any president is wholly good or wholly bad - isn't realistic - whether its DJT, Obama, Reagan, Clinton, RDR even back to Lincoln / Jefferson / Washington.

A couple "greatest hits" by FDR:
1) put Japanese-American citizens in internment camps during WW2 (but not German-Americans or Italian-Americans....hmmm)

2) frequent reference to African-Americans in conversations with fellow government officials as "n____rs" (There is some dispute as to whether he ever actually said "We'll have those n_s voting democrat for 200 years", but it is indisputed he used the n term frequently and casually while in office).

I know we live in a different time culturally and racially, but can you imagine what would happen to any president who did or said something like either of these today? If DJT did anything close to this, the media would (rightly?) lose their collective minds.
 
“Medal of freedom” award winner rush Limbaugh claims the coronavirus originated in a Chinese lab and was “weaponized” for the purpose of bringing down trump. And btw he pointed out that Bernie sanders wants to turn the us into China.

yea we’ve really lowered the bar for receiving the medal of freedom evidently

Trump has absolutely broken you.
 
Most people don’t realize how close Europe/Britain was to being completely Nazi in 1941 and how FDR was instrumental to that not happening.
But if we had gotten in earlier we could have saved London from the Blitz or maybe not needed the Soviets as allies. What if, what if, what if. If the treaty of Versailles were less punitive to Germany then Hitler would not have come to power.
 
But if we had gotten in earlier we could have saved London from the Blitz or maybe not needed the Soviets as allies. What if, what if, what if. If the treaty of Versailles were less punitive to Germany then Hitler would not have come to power.

The point is we couldn’t have gotten in earlier, war was still extremely unpopular until Pearl Harbor. But what FDR correctly did was figure out ways that we could help Britain and the Soviets fend off the Nazis until we could get actually involved. There were congressmen that wanted his head for things like Lend Lease but it saved Europe.
 
...and then the trickle down effect of that was that for Lend Lease we built more factories, more innovation toward production and that not only helped us win vs. the Japs when we entered the war but it set us up to be the superpower that we are after the war.

None of that happens without FDR.
 
But if we had gotten in earlier we could have saved London from the Blitz or maybe not needed the Soviets as allies. What if, what if, what if. If the treaty of Versailles were less punitive to Germany then Hitler would not have come to power.
Yes- the "what if" game is convenient. Another example: people can argue what if we had not dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? ... but how many more thousands of US lives, and [hundreds of thousands?] of Japanese lives would have been lost by a long protracted land war in Japan and Pacific Islands?
 
The point is we couldn’t have gotten in earlier, war was still extremely unpopular until Pearl Harbor. But what FDR correctly did was figure out ways that we could help Britain and the Soviets fend off the Nazis until we could get actually involved. There were congressmen that wanted his head for things like Lend Lease but it saved Europe.
When is war popular? So we can only try to stop world wars if they poll well? And the things that he "correctly" did were partly responsible for Pearl Harbor.
 
True, but I would love to know how only serving two terms was an impediment and what exactly it was an impediment to? Was the country going to end if he didn't serve forever?


When trying to judge a president's term, how he handles the situation is the most important. I don't know enough about Hoover's theoretical presidency to know if it would have been better. I can only judge what FDR did.


His treatment of Jews and his inaction at the beginning of the war. Internment camps probably wasn't the best idea either. I guess that's still kinda broad, but that should give you a general idea of my beefs.
Of course the country wasn't going to end. In fact, I didn't say, or mean to imply, that his decision to continue to run for reelection was a tradition that needed to end... but, it did end. And, apparently, it bothered enough people that they made it impossible to do it again. So, perhaps it was a tradition that needed to be honored.

You can judge what Hoover did prior to his losing his reelection.

I agree that the Japanese internment camps was about as disgusting as it gets. You take away a citizen's "rights" just when they need them the most? That's proof that we've never had "rights" at all. So, for that, I thank FDR for proving to Americans that there are no such things as rights. We have some privileges, at best, if we play by all the rules.
 
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