That's a bunch of BS. Immigration and job movement are much more prevalent than automation. Automation might have a greater impact down the road, but not at the moment.
OOTB's Political Thread . ..
- Thread starter BillyL
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That's a bunch of BS. Immigration and job movement are much more prevalent than automation. Automation might have a greater impact down the road, but not at the moment.
Ya, automation has been talked about in this thread like a robot with 100% human capabilities is coming out tomorrow. While the future of the country is automation and AI, I think the scope of what that can accomplish, as well as the timeline it is on, are both being vastly vastly overstated.
You are obsessed with globalization. If you’d step back you’d realize that development in poor countries has led to more production being shifted there as capacity is improved. There’s no way to prevent that. It’s not as simple as bad trade deals. While poor countries have been developing into industrialized nations, the rich nations are also seeing an erosion of middle class jobs as a result of advancements in productive capacity that reduces the need for human labor. A single variable analysis never works in macroeconomics, but that’s exactly what you’re attempting to doZ
The assault on labor unions has also shafted the middle class. People have no collective bargaining power anymore and their wages reflect that.
Offshoring labor is a problem, but it’s not the only problem. And immigrants in this country are mostly taking shitty jobs that Americans don’t want anyways. Isolationist economics are a silly solution to a real problem.
Of course, there's been more development in poor countries. That isn't the point being made. I'm also not trying to make this a single variable issue. I realize that automation has hurt the labor market, but to sit there and claim that it has more influence over our current situation than policies like NAFTA and immigration is just ludicrous. We aren't nearly far enough into the automation era for it to make that big of a difference.
As for the issue with labor unions, what do you think NAFTA did to them? It's hard to have any kind of leverage when the company tells you to either a) Take their terms, or b) We're moving your jobs.
As for immigrants taking shitty jobs, you realize that those jobs wouldn't be so shitty, and would pay more, if the firms had less access to employees, right? I mean, that's just a simple supply and demand issue.
I’m all for taxing the hell out domestic companies that produce their goods outside of the US. But claiming that automation isn’t a major factor in the labor market is crazy. It now takes one person to do the work that once took 10, or even 100 people.
I’m not some proponent of NAFTA. I’m well aware of the corruption in our government where corporations buy off politicians on both sides of the aisle. But that doesn’t mean we should become isolationists and ban immigration and prevent companies from producing in an efficient manner. Just tax them higher so we can mitigate some of the savings of offshoring, and hopefully incentivize companies to keep jobs here.
You’re also ignoring the issue of concentrated market power which has blown up to insane levels. It’s easy for companies to drive down wages when there isn’t healthy competition.
Comparing the wage growth in countries that are going through periods of rapid industrialization to developed nations is bad econometrics. That’s a glaring confounding variable. Assuming they are linked while ignoring that confounding variable is not a strong argument IMO. Wages have been stagnated since before NAFTA was put in place. We saw the divergence in middle class and wealthy income growth begin sometime around the Reagan administration.
1) Bro, that's been going on since the beginning of time. Innovation will destroy some jobs while creating others.
2) Nobody is talking about becoming isolationist or banning all immigration. We're talking about taking care of our citizens first and foremost.
3) This is where reducing regulations comes into play. There's not enough competition because corporate lobbyists use the government as a truncheon against small business owners.
4) Why do you think that rapid industrialization is happening? Do you think the country of India is building all those new cities that house the workers needed? Do you think the Chinese government used government funds to build all those factories? No. The reason why there is rapid industrialization is because Western companies are pumping a f***-ton of money into their economy in the hopes of getting a future return on that investment, e.g. lower labor rates.
1. Nobody said it hasn’t been going on since the beginning of time. It accelerates as technology advances though.
2. This is just populist rhetoric that doesn’t actually mean anything. How would you propose we take care of our citizens first and foremost? We need an actual policy to discuss.
3. Regulations are often important to protecting small business as well as the environment. Abusive/exploitative regulations should be repealed, but usually when regulations get pulled back it’s environmental standards that let corporations externalize the cost of pollution and exploit consumers. You could also make the case that a lack of regulation in certain markets has led to monopolization which hurts laborers and consumers.
4. Foreign investment is part of why that industrialization is happening. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Once wages rise in poor countries, there will be less incentive to export labor to those countries.
1) And? What's your point? That old jobs are getting replaced by new jobs at a faster rate? That doesn't really change anything I said.
2) Who is talking about becoming isolationist? Who is talking about banning all immigration? We can discuss policies, such as why are we militarily in 130+ countries, or why are we still in NATO, why are we sending money to 3rd world s***-holes, or why we continue to allow anchor babies and chain-immigration.
3) Even a lot of the environmental laws are BS. They're just more accepted because they are "green laws". Should we have laws that don't let people drop toxic waste into lakes? Of course. Should we have laws that hamstring oil production? Absolutely not.
4) Yeah, and until that happens, our workforce gets to suffer, right? Until we become the new China or India, our blue collar workers are just all SoL I guess.
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Old jobs get replaced by fewer new jobs. There isn’t a 1:1 replacement when technology replaces jobs.
Because of the military industrial complex. Because international cooperation is a good thing. Humanitarian aid is also a good thing. People who are born here shouldn’t be kicked out of the country, and people should have a chance to get in if their family lives here.
Most of the environmental laws are not bs. You’re right, we shouldn’t hamstring oil production. We should kill it completely. It’s obsolete and creates a massive negative externality.
Or our politicans could stop selling themselves to corporations. Publicly funded elections would help here. Won’t happen with a conservative SC that will never overturn Citizens United vs the FEC.
1) Yes, but technology builds upon itself. Technological advances usually don't come one at a time. They usually come in multiples. That's why it's advancing so fast. You don't have to have a 1:1 replacement on any single advance. If you have a 3:1 replacement, but there are three advances off of one technology, then you've reached a 1:1 ratio.
2) Sure, humanitarian aid is a good thing, nobody is saying otherwise. The question is whether or not it is better to send money to a foreign government, or to give people on Social Security a COLA that keeps up with inflation?
3) This is just ridiculous. So what happens when green energy can't keep up with the needed production? Do you just have what they have in Palestine right now? Sometimes you have electricity and other times you don't? The technology isn't there to get rid of oil, natural gas, and clean coal. And what do you do about places like China and India where people are actually burning coal bricks to stay warm? I'm sure there's no negative externality there. Besides, a negative externality is often used to describe an inconvenience, not a real negative situation. George Carlin did a great bit about this in one of his stand-ups.
4) Oh, and the Democrats are going to overturn Citizens United? They get more money from corporations nowadays than the Republicans. Even the Koch brothers backed other parties in 2016. Populism is the kiss of death to large multi-national firms. Why do you think they constantly try to link it to fascism and white supremacy? They know the score.
All I know is that I read an article about it a few years back. I was pretty sure it was India, but it might have been China. Here's an article I could find about the situation.
https://indianexpress.com/article/world/china-coal-burning-winter-smog-poor-people-4465984/
I can remember my grandparents burning it in their woodstove. In fact when they passed I took what was left to my father in law.
Looks like Mr. Effing Patriot himself ducked going to Arlington Cemetery today . . he pretends to be a fan & supporter of the military, but, can't make it because there was rain in the forecast . . BTW, it's not supposed to rain here in NoVA until after 5 PM. What a pussyfied snowflake we have as a leader . . !
Word around the DC water coolers is that 45 is under sedation from his strenuous trip to France and the fact he is still sobbing like the petulant little coward of a girl he truly is . . all because his party lost the House of Representatives.
Boo-FVCKING- Hoo . .
From the article linked:
The White House on Monday confirmed that President Donald Trump will not visit Arlington National Cemetery on Veteran’s Day.
According to Washington Post correspondent Josh Dawsey, the White House announced “a lid” on presidential movements at 10 a.m. ET, meaning the president is not scheduled to leave the White House for the remainder of the day.
Weather.com forecasted a 100 percent chance of rain at Arlington National Cemetery on Monday.
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/wh...rlington-cemetery-veterans-day-rain-expected/
Word around the DC water coolers is that 45 is under sedation from his strenuous trip to France and the fact he is still sobbing like the petulant little coward of a girl he truly is . . all because his party lost the House of Representatives.
Boo-FVCKING- Hoo . .
From the article linked:
The White House on Monday confirmed that President Donald Trump will not visit Arlington National Cemetery on Veteran’s Day.
According to Washington Post correspondent Josh Dawsey, the White House announced “a lid” on presidential movements at 10 a.m. ET, meaning the president is not scheduled to leave the White House for the remainder of the day.
Weather.com forecasted a 100 percent chance of rain at Arlington National Cemetery on Monday.
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/wh...rlington-cemetery-veterans-day-rain-expected/
In other late breaking world news, Donald Trump is still President of the United States. This has been confirmed by several major news outlets.
Maybe he will let-up on the players kneeling during the anthem. His parameters for patriotism are clearly subject to inclement weather.Looks like Mr. Effing Patriot himself ducked going to Arlington Cemetery today . . he pretends to be a fan & supporter of the military, but, can't make it because there was rain in the forecast . . BTW, it's not supposed to rain here in NoVA until after 5 PM. What a pussyfied snowflake we have as a leader . . !
Word around the DC water coolers is that 45 is under sedation from his strenuous trip to France and the fact he is still sobbing like the petulant little coward of a girl he truly is . . all because his party lost the House of Representatives.
Boo-FVCKING- Hoo . .
From the article linked:
The White House on Monday confirmed that President Donald Trump will not visit Arlington National Cemetery on Veteran’s Day.
According to Washington Post correspondent Josh Dawsey, the White House announced “a lid” on presidential movements at 10 a.m. ET, meaning the president is not scheduled to leave the White House for the remainder of the day.
Weather.com forecasted a 100 percent chance of rain at Arlington National Cemetery on Monday.
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/wh...rlington-cemetery-veterans-day-rain-expected/
He never disappoints.
Sounds like something Faux News would say!!!!!111!11!
You got me, they are the only ones reporting it..the others are split between hillary, barry and bernie.
Looks like Mr. Effing Patriot himself ducked going to Arlington Cemetery today . . he pretends to be a fan & supporter of the military, but, can't make it because there was rain in the forecast . . BTW, it's not supposed to rain here in NoVA until after 5 PM. What a pussyfied snowflake we have as a leader . . !
Word around the DC water coolers is that 45 is under sedation from his strenuous trip to France and the fact he is still sobbing like the petulant little coward of a girl he truly is . . all because his party lost the House of Representatives.
Boo-FVCKING- Hoo . .
From the article linked:
The White House on Monday confirmed that President Donald Trump will not visit Arlington National Cemetery on Veteran’s Day.
According to Washington Post correspondent Josh Dawsey, the White House announced “a lid” on presidential movements at 10 a.m. ET, meaning the president is not scheduled to leave the White House for the remainder of the day.
Weather.com forecasted a 100 percent chance of rain at Arlington National Cemetery on Monday.
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/wh...rlington-cemetery-veterans-day-rain-expected/
1. That's not how things actually work though. This is the issue I have with the Solow growth model. It states that the efficient level of production simply rises, so labor demand won't fall off in the long run. But there are limits on demand. As we produce more and more with fewer laborers, production rises, but it will eventually hit a limit where you can't sell everything you're producing.
I agree that for the most part, advancement has created new jobs as its eliminated old ones. I don't think that is going to last forever though. Eventually we won't need engineers to run the computers than control the machines. It will be cheaper and more efficient to let an algorithm do that work. And it only takes one team of engineers to create the algorithm that runs the computers. I don't think it will ever balance out to 1:1. We only need so many inventors to design the products that computers and machines produce.
2. I think we can do both. I also think its generally a good idea to keep foreign aid mostly out of government budgets. Like you said, there are returns to be made on the investment in foreign countries. I'd prefer we let NPO's and industrialists make those investments instead of doing it through government. So we probably agree here. I do think there are instances where the net benefits of foreign aid are so significant that it would inhumane not to send some help. Malaria nets are the example that jumps to mind.
3. I consider nuclear energy to be "green." So there's no chance of that ever happening. We could produce more energy with nuclear than we could ever consume. Fail safe reactor technology already exists. We can easily eliminate oil and gas. The biggest challenge is storage, but the cost of lithium ion batteries is falling rapidly.
4. No, the establishment democrats aren't interested in overturning CU. We agree there. But Bernie Sanders sure as shit would overturn it (if he had the power to).
Its not just fascism and white supremacy it's linked to. It's also linked to socialism/communism when it comes from the left. Populist policies can be good policies. I wouldn't dismiss a policy just because its a populist one. But populism is often a cheap way of appealing to the masses to seize political power.
1) It probably won't last forever, but it's not as big of a deal currently.
2) Agreed for the most part. Let the charities pick up the extra slack.
3) I'm okay with "nucular" energy. The issue with lithium is that just mining it is terrible for the environment.
4) I agree that it can be abused, but all political movements can be abused, including the Green Movement.
1. It's a pretty big deal. People are already losing jobs to automation, and it will only accelerate from here. The truly scary part is we are on the brink of dialing in technologies that will replace jobs in bulk. Self driving cars are probably the biggest example. We need a solution in place before that happens, or we're going to be up the proverbial creek.
3. Why'd you quote it like I spelled it wrong? lol and I agree about the lithium issue. A better storage method is desirable.
4. Agree.
1) It's a big deal because we aren't training people for the new jobs. Instead we're bringing in foreigners on H1-B visas.
3) That was a jab at GW, not you.
But my point is there be enough new jobs for everyone. No amount of training will fix that
Gotcha. I knew it had to be a jab at someone lol
Well, that's really hard to tell in our current situation. We really need some changes at the educational level and with certain regulations. Honestly, and I hate to say this, but I would be all for large grants that would incentivize people to enter certain programs at this point in time. I might have pushed through and gotten my engineering degree instead of switching to finance if there would have been some sort of monetary incentive. Now I'm not saying that this would be a good long-term decision, but we do need to change things in order to push kids into the programs that we really need.
Grants will help. But there’s still only going to be so many engineering jobs and only a small portion of the population have the intellectual capabilities to contribute to that field. I agree that we need to shift the labor market towards different career paths, but that won’t solve the problem of technological advancement or globalization in the long run.
If we solve the distribution problem then technological advancement stops looking like a problem and starts looking like the solution to our problems.
I'm not talking specifically about engineering, but yeah...we have too many English Lit degrees and not enough of what we really need. Honestly, a lot of these people should be looking at trade schools. If I had it to do all over again, I would have been an electrician, and I would probably own my own business at this point.
I also agree that there are distribution problems, but we need to be careful about how to tackle that issue.
Apparently, there was a grand jury convened at a Federal Courthouse today and that the star witness was Michael Cohen . . . can someone enlighten me on the possible indictments that may arise . . ?
A lot of talk around the Wash. DC water coolers that there's about to be a party with some not so happy invitees . .
TIA
Oh, and I almost forgot . . . . Have a nice day.
A lot of talk around the Wash. DC water coolers that there's about to be a party with some not so happy invitees . .
TIA
Oh, and I almost forgot . . . . Have a nice day.
Our not so great POTUS decided to hang back at the WH and watch the day's proceedings over at Arlington Cemetery on TV, all the while, France sent folks to lay a wreath at the Unknown Soldier Tomb, 45 likely chose not to attend because the dead can't and wouldn't applaud him and/or that no one is there to scream "Lock Her Up" . . . #SAD.
Maybe, he was he pissed off that the military wouldn't give him his parade on Veterans Day?
Is his annoyance with the military why he punished so many (15K) by sending them to the US/Mexico border to stand guard against the caravan of men, women and children ? Seems it's one or the other(s) . .
It's how he rolls . .
Maybe, he was he pissed off that the military wouldn't give him his parade on Veterans Day?
Is his annoyance with the military why he punished so many (15K) by sending them to the US/Mexico border to stand guard against the caravan of men, women and children ? Seems it's one or the other(s) . .
It's how he rolls . .
Please post your address on a government website so the caravan knows where they can crash once here.Our not so great POTUS decided to hang back at the WH and watch the day's proceedings over at Arlington Cemetery on TV, all the while, France sent folks to lay a wreath at the Unknown Soldier Tomb, 45 likely chose not to attend because the dead can't and wouldn't applaud him and/or that no one is there to scream "Lock Her Up" . . . #SAD.
Maybe, he was he pissed off that the military wouldn't give him his parade on Veterans Day?
Is his annoyance with the military why he punished so many (15K) by sending them to the US/Mexico border to stand guard against the caravan of men, women and children ? Seems it's one or the other(s) . .
It's how he rolls . .
I'd have to kick your S/O out to make room . . I'm gud with it, she won't be.
Good try. Now go lock your fricken doors tonight. You know you do. Lock them tight anytime you leave. Come to my house though, doors never locked.
Thanks for the invite . . I'll decline. Do tell the kids that their mommy is being well looked after tho . .
I got her covered . .
Have a nice day.
I'm sure you would like to cover her but she doesn't like fatty's.....sorryThanks for the invite . . I'll decline. Do tell the kids that their mommy is being well looked after tho . .
I got her covered . .
Have a nice day.
I'm the lover under cover she has long desired. She knows I'm neither fat or fast, but, more like rugged, slow and steady, I found her to be pretty good, too, that is, once I got past the used part.
