POLL: With Berry Out, Who Will Be In the Starting Lineup?

[gary-7]

You say KW "deserved" the start. Why? If Theo hadn't been hurt last year KW never would've started. We won a national championship without KW even being available.

Look, I am not putting him down and from what I've seen he can be a very solid role player on this team. I'm just having a very hard time grasping how some here are so high on him and acting as if he's clearly our best option at the 2 spot. A 2 at unc should be a threat, if not shooting then by slashing and dishing etc. Kenny has not shown anywhere near enough offensively for me to think he "deserves" anything.

I think he should get solid 6 or 7th man minutes, and I hope he eventually finds his stroke.

There's more to basketball and team chemistry than scoring. KW is our best Wing defender (both man-up and team), rebounds very well for his size/position, and is an excellent passer, screener and decision-maker. He pretty much does everything right in the system. His only weakness now is offensive aggression and that will come. He's got the stroke, it's just a matter of confidence --- and he's never had a chance to play a full season.

Again, it's not an either/or deal. Theo, Kenny and Cam will play a lot and will be on the court together at times. Kenny is a 2-3 Wing in our system. Cam is a 3-4 Hybrid. Theo is a Swiss Army Knife.

 

[bax4444]

There's more to basketball and team chemistry than scoring. KW is our best Wing defender (both man-up and team), rebounds very well for his size/position, and is an excellent passer, screener and decision-maker. He pretty much does everything right in the system. His only weakness now is offensive aggression and that will come. He's got the stroke, it's just a matter of confidence --- and he's never had a chance to play a full season.

Again, it's not an either/or deal. Theo, Kenny and Cam will play a lot and will be on the court together at times. Kenny is a 2-3 Wing in our system. Cam is a 3-4 Hybrid. Theo is a Swiss Army Knife.

Thats all fine and I mostly agree. I wasnt really arguing any of that, I said hes a good defender. My issue is with those who are saying hes "earned" or "deserves" to start. In no way shape or form do I believe that to be true based on what we have actually seen transpire on the court so far in Kenny Williams' career.

As far as team chemistry- I hope youre not implying it would hurt the chemistry to not have him starting. As I said, he wasnt even available and the team won a national title, so that pretty much blows that right out of the water.

 

[gary-7]

Thats all fine and I mostly agree. I wasnt really arguing any of that, I said hes a good defender. My issue is with those who are saying hes "earned" or "deserves" to start. In no way shape or form do I believe that to be true based on what we have actually seen transpire on the court so far in Kenny Williams' career.

As far as team chemistry- I hope youre not implying it would hurt the chemistry to not have him starting. As I said, he wasnt even available and the team won a national title, so that pretty much blows that right out of the water.

When I said "chemistry" I was referring to roles on this particular team. JB, KW and Theo make up a fearsome perimeter defensive presence --- you'll find none better anywhere. Last season JJ helped things by making gigantic strides in his defense from the 3-spot and that as much as anything was a difference in going all the way. We need to replicate that as much as possible.

Honestly, Cam never really showed that at Pitt. Everyone knows he can bomb from deep but to be the best fit Cam will need to defend and rebound at a higher level than before, as well as utilize his mid-range and post game to go with his excellent shooting ability on offense.

Now, if he rounds out his game like Buckets did? He may push into he starting lineup. If not, I would bet on Kenny. Again, either way Cam is gonna get "starter" minutes.

 

[carolinablue34]

I am in the camp that Jalek should get the minutes while JB is out. His potential is enormous and it’s easy to see when you watch him play.

7th can be a valuable asset, but in more of a Dexter Strickland kind of a role.

 

[WhitePhantoms]

KW is a junior now. I think we know what we're gonna get from him. Give me Kenny's 3 point shooting percentages since being at UNC.... I'll hang up and listen.

As for Theo, he is one of my favorite players but being a go-to scorer is not his game.

Seventh at point... it's just not his ideal position. He needs to be a combo like Dex primarily playing the off guard position.

I didn't know we were on the phone, but I don't really feel like calling you back so I'll just text you.

2015-16 he shot 1 of 13 for 7% ... and? he averaged 4 minutes a game. Even as a freshman he played a big role in beating Virginia in the ACC Championship game. Remember his defense on Malcolm Brogdon?
2016-17 he shot 27 of 80 for 33.8%

Hubert Davis his freshman year only shot 4 of 13 averaging 7 minutes. DId he not improve? Can Kenny not improve? Comparing his freshman and sophomore stats he improved. Why cant he take another step this year? His shot form is arguably the purest on the team. Kenny last year played his role. He knew he didn't have to force shots and differed a lot to JB, Justin, Meeks and Hicks which he should have. But when we were in OT against Clemson, Kenny misses a wide open 3, not the next play (that's when Berry steals the ball with the PG running full speed), but the following one, we're tied 79-79 he throws the ball to Hicks then goes and get it and drains it from just inside the arc where he took that 3 just 2 plays before.

Theo might not be a go to scorer but he can score. He needs to limit the 3's and focus on taking his defender off the dribble and taking it to the basket.

7th is a mystery because we don't really know what he is. I'm not a fan of the comparison to Dex. When it's all said and done I believe he'll be a lot better than him. It baffles me that so many bash the kid saying he cant play the point. Y'all are basing this off someone who averaged less that 8 minutes a game and wasn't 100% healthy last year. A lot of the time when he was in Nate was in and Nate controlled the ball a lot. But like Theo he should limit his 3's and focus on taking his defender off the dribble. He's quick which will be a problem for defenders.

 

[heels05champs]

I didn't know we were on the phone, but I don't really feel like calling you back so I'll just text you.

2015-16 he shot 1 of 13 for 7% ... and? he averaged 4 minutes a game. Even as a freshman he played a big role in beating Virginia in the ACC Championship game. Remember his defense on Malcolm Brogdon?
2016-17 he shot 27 of 80 for 33.8%

Hubert Davis his freshman year only shot 4 of 13 averaging 7 minutes. DId he not improve? Can Kenny not improve? Comparing his freshman and sophomore stats he improved. Why cant he take another step this year? His shot form is arguably the purest on the team. Kenny last year played his role. He knew he didn't have to force shots and differed a lot to JB, Justin, Meeks and Hicks which he should have. But when we were in OT against Clemson, Kenny misses a wide open 3, not the next play (that's when Berry steals the ball with the PG running full speed), but the following one, we're tied 79-79 he throws the ball to Hicks then goes and get it and drains it from just inside the arc where he took that 3 just 2 plays before.

Theo might not be a go to scorer but he can score. He needs to limit the 3's and focus on taking his defender off the dribble and taking it to the basket.

7th is a mystery because we don't really know what he is. I'm not a fan of the comparison to Dex. When it's all said and done I believe he'll be a lot better than him. It baffles me that so many bash the kid saying he cant play the point. Y'all are basing this off someone who averaged less that 8 minutes a game and wasn't 100% healthy last year. A lot of the time when he was in Nate was in and Nate controlled the ball a lot. But like Theo he should limit his 3's and focus on taking his defender off the dribble. He's quick which will be a problem for defenders.

I never questioned Kenny's defense as I acknowledge it is very good. The numbers you provided are the evidence we have at hand so surely even you can understand the concern. And for further evidence, I watched the late night with Roy scrimmage and saw Kenny shoot 0-4 from the field (0-3 3fg). I will continue to label him as a defensive specialist until he proves that he can score consistently.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I am in the camp that Jalek should get the minutes while JB is out. His potential is enormous and it’s easy to see when you watch him play.

7th can be a valuable asset, but in more of a Dexter Strickland kind of a role.

Dex was my touchstone for Seventh from the very beginning. Once he stopped shooting treys he was a good contributor on offense (57% as a junior before injury). His D was excellent until injury really set him back and yet still decent after his return. And to top it off he finished out his career here with the best assist:turnover ratio on a team with Marcus and Reggie (another underrated ball handler).

I don't think Marcus would have survived his freshman year without Dex as his wingman.

I'm still looking forward to seeing both Jalek and Seventh in the backcourt together.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Earned in the UNC system is synonymous with experience, performance, and sacrifice. If you are choosing between two within the system you use a different metric than between 1 inside and 1 newcomer. TP and KW were both within the system and I think TP/Team needs held the deciding factor. Now we are deciding between (IMO) KW or CJ starting so: experience in the system trumps scoring punch (unless KW is less healthy physically or mentally than we think)

Loyalty is ONE factor not the entire decision tree! Roy IS loyal to a fault, but uses it as a tie-breaker not the trump card and often displays it off the court.

These concepts are ingrained in the Tar Heel Way and if this is foreign to some, they need to adjust or.....?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Earned in the UNC system is synonymous with experience, performance, and sacrifice. If you are choosing between two within the system you use a different metric than between 1 inside and 1 newcomer. TP and KW were both within the system and I think TP/Team needs held the deciding factor. Now we are deciding between (IMO) KW or CJ starting so: experience in the system trumps scoring punch (unless KW is less healthy physically or mentally than we think)

Loyalty is ONE factor not the entire decision tree! Roy IS loyal to a fault, but uses it as a tie-breaker not the trump card and often displays it off the court.

These concepts are ingrained in the Tar Heel Way and if this is foreign to some, they need to adjust or.....?

If Kenny hadn't been injured, I think he could well have started at least the first few games, as Cam gets comfortable with the system in real games. But I doubt Kenny is 100%. I hope he's 100% healthy, but he can't get those missed months back. And it's a lot of months. He was injured in early February.

Depending on Kenny's fitness, the more we play small the more chance he plays alongside Cam, rather than instead of him.

Who knows, that could be good for Kenny - since Cam's shooting may mean Kenny is open more. Meanwhile Kenny takes the tougher wing on D, which could be good for Cam - whose D is as yet unproven.

 

[bax4444]

These concepts are ingrained in the Tar Heel Way and if this is foreign to some, they need to adjust or.....?

Spare me.

 

[DSouthr]

I didn't know we were on the phone, but I don't really feel like calling you back so I'll just text you.

2015-16 he shot 1 of 13 for 7% ... and? he averaged 4 minutes a game. Even as a freshman he played a big role in beating Virginia in the ACC Championship game. Remember his defense on Malcolm Brogdon?
2016-17 he shot 27 of 80 for 33.8%

Hubert Davis his freshman year only shot 4 of 13 averaging 7 minutes. DId he not improve? Can Kenny not improve? Comparing his freshman and sophomore stats he improved. Why cant he take another step this year? His shot form is arguably the purest on the team. Kenny last year played his role. He knew he didn't have to force shots and differed a lot to JB, Justin, Meeks and Hicks which he should have. But when we were in OT against Clemson, Kenny misses a wide open 3, not the next play (that's when Berry steals the ball with the PG running full speed), but the following one, we're tied 79-79 he throws the ball to Hicks then goes and get it and drains it from just inside the arc where he took that 3 just 2 plays before.

Theo might not be a go to scorer but he can score. He needs to limit the 3's and focus on taking his defender off the dribble and taking it to the basket.

7th is a mystery because we don't really know what he is. I'm not a fan of the comparison to Dex. When it's all said and done I believe he'll be a lot better than him. It baffles me that so many bash the kid saying he cant play the point. Y'all are basing this off someone who averaged less that 8 minutes a game and wasn't 100% healthy last year. A lot of the time when he was in Nate was in and Nate controlled the ball a lot. But like Theo he should limit his 3's and focus on taking his defender off the dribble. He's quick which will be a problem for defenders.

First, I agree that Kenny can take a big step forward and I offered (I think in this thread) reason why that maybe didn't show as much last season thou I do think folks over all see kenny in a much better light now than they did this time last season. I do think it will be harder for him to step up a level with his coming off that injury and just not having an off season to hone some offensive skills in.

Back court players, to me come in the the college game in 2 varieties, shooters or slasher scorers. Now days, it seems more in fad to be the slasher scorer prior to college, kids love the highlite reel dunks. And even the shooters seem to be able to hit more treys for a % than they do mid range jumpers? Frankly, the better shooters seem to focus exclusively on shooting treys and the slasher scores focus on getting to the rim and dunking, I really wish kids would old school and look to score from all points of the court.

Theo and 7th are to me classic examples of slasher scorers, Dex was one as well, so that much of a comparison I can see. But to me if I am looking for a kid on our current roster to compare to Dex it would be Kenny Williams much more than 7th. Woods is a hard one for me to come up with a former Heel that fits what I see in him because he has a little of this and a little of that, in both his strengths and weaknesses. I do not look for him to be a great jump shooter and more than I expect Theo to but I do expect that to improve over what we have seen. I do not agree and have said so that 7th is not and can not be a PG, I not only think he can be but I think he can be a really good PG for us. There were a lot of factors that went in to resulting in the freshman season he had, folks seem to want to negate those things and close the book on the kid and I really wish they wouldn't do that. Critique him fine but I think for some it is I have already concluded he can't so let me try to find a way to prove that.

I got blow back for saying that IMO I am not real comfortable (yet never did I suggest he should not start for us this season) with Luke as our starter, like I was bashing the kid when all I was doing was sharing my opinion based on 2yrs of watching him play. Yet I see folks claim 7th can never be a PG for us and that has been going on since the kid enrolled and yet Roy still has him as a reserve PG? And I see little to no blow back on the 7th can't PG opinion where I was call lacking in faith for my view of Luke?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I'm not a fan of the comparison to Dex. When it's all said and done I believe he'll be a lot better than him. It baffles me that so many bash the kid saying he cant play the point. Y'all are basing this off someone who averaged less that 8 minutes a game and wasn't 100% healthy last year. A lot of the time when he was in Nate was in and Nate controlled the ball a lot. But like Theo he should limit his 3's and focus on taking his defender off the dribble. He's quick which will be a problem for defenders.

From what I've seen, Seventh is stronger than Dex and although he had struggles last season, he kept his head in the game. Dex would sometimes drift at this same stage of development. Both good defenders, both quick, both a bit unsteady (yet promising) on handling. Both good drivers. Both unreliable shooters from deep.

Having seen a lot more of Dex than 7th, I'd say Dex is a better driver and is faster coast-to-coast. But 7th could easily prove me wrong this season.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

FWIW, for the exhibition:

Woods
Pinson
Johnson
Maye
Brooks

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

FWIW, for the exhibition:

Woods
Pinson
Johnson
Maye
Brooks

Clearly Roy takes his instructions from us on these matters.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

At least Roy didn’t start the year giving Kenny Williams a courtesy start over Cam Johnson. Cam will be a really good player for us.