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Refugee Ban

strummingram said:
What it does is it singles-out a religion. That religion happens to be Muslim, and the countries happen to be countries that have a high concentration of Muslims. That marginalization (or discrimination if you're a potential jihadist) makes it easier to recruit people into their terrorist organizations. The more they recruit, the harder it is to overcome.

If the objective is to have fewer potential terrorists, this is not a good idea.
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Nope. No Islamist group uses immigration as a means to recruit new members.

The reason why these 7 countries are named is because they refuse or can't help with the vetting of their citizens. How do you determine whether somebody is a potential threat without their country of origin providing background information?
 
gteeitup said:
sorry you feel that way...you see it through your eyes and through your convictions, though...just because you believe it, it doesn't make it so.

i do have to ask, do you think he got any help?...do you think anyone tried to work with him?
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Yeah. On ObamaCare, the GOP had meetings with him to provide him feedback and offer alternative solutions. Obama shut down Paul Ryan, told him DEMs were going to have it their way because, in Obama's words, "elections have consequences." Remember "you have the pass the bill before you can read it?" After that, it was all downhill... ObamaCare was passed with ZERO GOP votes. Then, Obama got his ass handed to him in the 2010 mid-terms and then Obama started targeting conservative groups using the IRS as a weapon. Since that time, I don't think anyone on either side had any interest in working together...
 
echev said:
Nope. No Islamist group uses immigration as a means to recruit new members.

The reason why these 7 countries are named is because they refuse or can't help with the vetting of their citizens. How do you determine whether somebody is a potential threat without their country of origin providing background information?
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Additionally, these seven nations were the same seven nations Obama picked out as particularly dangerous to the USA. Trump was really just piggy-backing on the list Obama provided...
 
Nuk'EM Heels said:
Yeah. On ObamaCare, the GOP had meetings with him to provide him feedback and offer alternative solutions. Obama shut down Paul Ryan, told him DEMs were going to have it their way because, in Obama's words, "elections have consequences." Remember "you have the pass the bill before you can read it?" After that, it was all downhill... ObamaCare was passed with ZERO GOP votes. Then, Obama got his ass handed to him in the 2010 mid-terms and then Obama started targeting conservative groups using the IRS as a weapon. Since that time, I don't think anyone on either side had any interest in working together...
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lol...exactly as i said above, the aca.

thanks!!
 
echev said:
The EO doesn't mention religion. People of other faiths from these countries are affected as well.
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What Donald Trump is doing (2017)
  • Ban entry to the US for people born in seven majority Muslim countries - Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen - including holders of legal green cards and visas - for 90 days
  • Suspending the Syrian refugee plan indefinitely
  • Suspending entire refugee plan for 120 days
  • Bans entry to the US for dual-nationality passport holders - meaning citizens of the above countries who also hold, for example, a British passport, are also banned for 90 days.
  • Prioritise Christian refugees over Muslims
  • Capped refugee total to 50,000
  • Did it out of the blue Trump came up with his Muslim ban following the Orlando nightclub shooting, an attack committed not by refugees or migrants, but by a US citizen who was born in New York.



  • Of all the fatal terror attacks carried out on US soil since 9/11, exactly zero have been committed by immigrants from the seven majority Muslim countries targeted by the ban
 
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strummingram said:
What Donald Trump is doing (2017)
  • Ban entry to the US for people born in seven majority Muslim countries - Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen - including holders of legal green cards and visas - for 90 days
  • Suspending the Syrian refugee plan indefinitely
  • Suspending entire refugee plan for 120 days
  • Bans entry to the US for dual-nationality passport holders - meaning citizens of the above countries who also hold, for example, a British passport, are also banned for 90 days.
  • Prioritise Christian refugees over Muslims
  • Capped refugee total to 50,000
  • Did it out of the blue Trump came up with his Muslim ban following the Orlando nightclub shooting, an attack committed not by refugees or migrants, but by a US citizen who was born in New York.



  • Of all the fatal terror attacks carried out on US soil since 9/11, exactly zero have been committed by immigrants from the seven majority Muslim countries targeted by the ban
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Because they are a religious minority. The Trump administration is bound by US and International law in awarding refugee status to religious minorities who are persecuted.

16 immigrants from 2 of those countries have been arrested for plotting attacks against the US.
 
gteeitup said:
i personally believe this might create more homegrown terrorism from the radical groups...nobody can tell me that the individuals already living here won't feel more dedicated to their cause...hope i'm wrong
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That's what I was referring to by the backlash and resistance it is already getting here.
 
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echev said:
Because they are a religious minority. The Trump administration is bound by US and International law in awarding refugee status to religious minorities who are persecuted.

16 immigrants from 2 of those countries have been arrested for plotting attacks against the US.
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So... it DOES specify religion. Thank you.
 
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gteeitup said:
i personally believe this might create more homegrown terrorism from the radical groups...nobody can tell me that the individuals already living here won't feel more dedicated to their cause...hope i'm wrong
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So an immigration ban is more of a motivating factor in radicalization than killing Muslims in Islamic countries?
 
echev said:
The EO doesn't mention religion, just 7 nations.
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Yes, it very specifically mentions religion.

"On Friday he signed an executive order on refugees that imposes a selective ban on immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries as well as establishes preferential treatment for refugees seeking asylum who are identified with “minority religions” in their country of origin. In case there was any doubt about the latter provision’s intent, Trump told Christian Broadcast News that it was intended to give priority to “Christians” seeking asylum over “Muslims.” "
 
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Nuk'EM Heels said:
Obama's feelings are hurt. His entire legacy is being dismantled in front of his very eyes in the first couple of weeks of Trump's presidency. He must really be hurting. Poor little Obama, maybe he'll step up to microphone and start crying...
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Obama's legacy is the election of Donald Trump. That's it. That's all.
 
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strummingram said:
Yes, it very specifically mentions religion.

"On Friday he signed an executive order on refugees that imposes a selective ban on immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries as well as establishes preferential treatment for refugees seeking asylum who are identified with “minority religions” in their country of origin. In case there was any doubt about the latter provision’s intent, Trump told Christian Broadcast News that it was intended to give priority to “Christians” seeking asylum over “Muslims.” "
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The EO doesn't mention religion. Religious minorities who don't claim they are being persecuted are affected by this EO.
 
strummingram said:
Yes, it very specifically mentions religion.

"On Friday he signed an executive order on refugees that imposes a selective ban on immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries as well as establishes preferential treatment for refugees seeking asylum who are identified with “minority religions” in their country of origin. In case there was any doubt about the latter provision’s intent, Trump told Christian Broadcast News that it was intended to give priority to “Christians” seeking asylum over “Muslims.” "
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Does it state religion in the EO though? Not in whatever commentary you find (or add) afterwards. I listened to the clip. Sounds like a certain religion is getting over persecuted. Surely you have some sympathy for them?

It's funny how you can switch the names/groups around and have some people argue the exact opposite of what they do when the groups are reversed.
 
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I don't get the hoopla over this being a muslim thing - as I said earlier. Democrats think Republicans are targeting muslims and refuse to call is Islamic terrorism...Rebuplicans harp on the liberals refusing to call it that and do call it Islamic terrorism.

Indonesia (correct me if I'm wrong) is the largest population of muslims in the world, and you never hear a single bad thing about them.

This is not that difficult -- you have a collection of people in the middle east, who have managed to generate a shitload of cash from those oil fields...and at the "turn a blind eye" approach from the last 8 years, been allowed to grow their base of followers to being a legitimate threat to the world. They are hiding under this "jihadist" label when it's pretty clear that they are after money and power...they are not after some cleansing of all other religions in the name of Islam...that is just a lame front, it's a scapegoat, and just a propaganda tool to recruit. I swear, some people have forgone all of their street smarts. These people are hustlers and they are playing the leaders of the world.

You know what, though...I'm just really glad the Trump Admin "gets it." I hope it's for 8 years, but even if just 4, he could do a lot of good in this world, regardless of whether you guys approve or not. Hurt feelings don't matter when they are 6 feet under...you guys should be thankful he decided to run for office. He could have taken the easy route and gone off to one of his resorts, enjoyed his family, and never batted an eye.
 
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echev said:
So an immigration ban is more of a motivating factor in radicalization than killing Muslims in Islamic countries?
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in the sense that individuals already here might become more sensitive to outside influences, become more mobilized, yes.

this is about terrorism on our soil, right?...if individuals are already existing within, what's a ban the nature of this going to help at this point, right now?...and let's not be blind, this is 90 days that could turn out to be something entirely different...it is just a waiting period, perhaps to formulate a plan when trump gets his cabinet in place.
 
gteeitup said:
acting attorney general canned...jfc
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images


Come to think about it, if I pulled this stunt at work, I'd probably get canned too. I guess things really ARE different in Washington now...refreshing sight!
 
"I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right," Yates said in the letter.

"At present, I am not convinced that the defense of the executive order is consistent with these responsibilities nor am I convinced that the executive order is lawful."
 
strummingram said:
"I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right," Yates said in the letter.

"At present, I am not convinced that the defense of the executive order is consistent with these responsibilities nor am I convinced that the executive order is lawful."
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That is an opinionated statement on her part, right?
 
chick_bleeds_carolina_blue said:
Before you accuse bleeding hearts of not caring about those people suffering like that here, go look up WHY they are not helped. Look up how Congress voted on bills to help them, then tell me who didn't care enough to help.
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I don't see Congress protesting at airports...I see bleeding heart liberals!
 
strummingram said:
I thought we already established that helping people who are homeless only makes them dependent on you. It was almost unanimous that giving panhandlers money was merely enabling their scam. I am guilty of enabling their scam because I do give them money.

Whoever said that we should ignore those who are homeless and needy here at home just because we see another injustice being done with this executive order?

Maybe instead of criticizing protesters, you could go be more proactive and actually help the homeless instead of trying to invent something that doesn't exist so you can feel like you scored some political points in your own mind.
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On the Board of Directors of our local homeless shelter where we shelter families, train and help them find jobs, pay for a few months of housing.

Involved with The Wounded Warrior Project in fundraising and work with a local company that provides outdoor rehabilitation for Veterans.

VP of a foundation that is providing medical facilities and care for several rural community in Guatemala.

I am not out protesting like a bunch of liberal blow hards...I am out doing something about problems.....YOU?
 
GACMAN said:
On the Board of Directors of our local homeless shelter where we shelter families, train and help them find jobs, pay for a few months of housing.

Involved with The Wounded Warrior Project in fundraising and work with a local company that provides outdoor rehabilitation for Veterans.

VP of a foundation that is providing medical facilities and care for several rural community in Guatemala.

I am not out protesting like a bunch of liberal blow hards...I am out doing something about problems.....YOU?
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Awesome! That's what they need!

So, why are you bothered by what other people are doing about things they feel need to be addressed? Just because they are protesting what they believe is an injustice, doesn't mean that they've abandoned completely, or ignored entirely, the other people that are here who need help. For all you know, each and every one is doing something on a personal level to help any number of others who need it. They're also protesting against a president that they feel is abusing his power. You may not agree with them, but I'm glad we can protest against any president. Just because they're protesting a president you like and an action they feel is wrong, doesn't mean they are ignoring everything else... it only means they're engaged with that, at that moment.

You'd better get ready, because I have a feeling it will be non-stop for the next 4 years.
 
Blue2010 said:
They are hiding under this "jihadist" label when it's pretty clear that they are after money and power...they are not after some cleansing of all other religions in the name of Islam...that is just a lame front, it's a scapegoat, and just a propaganda tool to recruit. I swear, some people have forgone all of their street smarts. These people are hustlers and they are playing the leaders of the world.
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Yup. They realize they can hide behind a religion and people will be up in arms if that religion is examined more closely as a result. Genius play on their part really.
 
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