So the guy sees a scorpion and his first thought is to pick it up? He deserved it.
So United Airlines is off to a great week
- Thread starter Raising Heel
- Start date
But wait! It gets better!
Woman Says Man Groped Her On United Flight And Attendants Kept Bringing Him Whiskeys
What a week for their PR department, eh?
Woman Says Man Groped Her On United Flight And Attendants Kept Bringing Him Whiskeys
What a week for their PR department, eh?
So this jackleg keeps getting drinks but once I was on a plane that left at 8:40 a.m. and I order my first drink, and some mouthy flight attendant asks me how many drinks I've had already....
Well, since it was 8:40 in the morning, none. My dad, who was sitting between her and me, asks her "what kind of question is that?" She responds, "It's a great question."
It took all of my will power -- and a general fear of being arrested -- to not start an intense verbal altercation with this female dog.
See, I would have taken that as a challenge to dress her down in the most polite manner possible, all while still ensuring I got the damn drink I ordered.
I was beyond incensed. So many things to say crossed my mind. Like okay, I've been cut off twice, but that was from a bar, and one of those times was definitely deserved. Being cut off for legitimate intoxication is enough of a blow to the ego, but being questioned when it's early in the morning and I haven't even had a drink yet...? GFY.
But I was also caught completely off guard by it too and I was already exhausted from the whole getting up at 5 and enduring the Atlanta airport thing, so I didn't have my full mental faculties to really take her to task. If she had actually refused to serve me, though, I would've made a scene that United Airlines would've applauded.
(ETA: Mini-rant.... this is why it's so damn silly that folks can sue bars for not cutting off patrons who get drunk and then drive after. I was cut off once at an RDU bar when I was absolutely not drunk but was simply biding time waiting for a friend to pick me up, which I informed the bartender of when I sat down. Yet on the other hand, I've been out on the town in Atlanta on nights where we ubered there and I'm on the verge of blacking out and yet I've still gotten served. So clearly it's not a very exact science. Okay... rant over. I need a drink).
In her defense most people who drink at 8:40 in the morning are drunks, so she just made an educated guess.
Maybe you become normal when you blackout. We all think you drunk most of the time. Explains a lot
How Huffington Post is it to try to drum up any instance of malfeasance from united to capitalize on the negative publicity right now?
#phrasing
I think he was trying to make a point about HuffPo carrying the groping story, but it actually ran in several outlets. I just linked the first one I came across.
So now united is going to "compensate" all of the other customers with money or miles that are equal to the cost of their ticket. I guess they need to convince people not to testify in the lawsuit.
At least they figured a solution to their over-booking problem...
Man, these guys are just stupid. Wonder how long it will be before the CEO is forced to step down?
http://www.khou.com/news/local/bride-and-groom-booted-off-united-flight-in-houston/431644313
http://www.khou.com/news/local/bride-and-groom-booted-off-united-flight-in-houston/431644313
Sounds like a he-said-she-said incident.
I'm inclined to think a grown-ass man wearing a baseball hat backwards in a television interview might have actually tried to use the "we're getting married" excuse to hold onto a better seat.
On the other hand, considering the flight was half-full, why in the world would United deny them from using the seats? And why did they have to be removed from the plane? These employees sound like corporate robots.
This United Airlines doctor incident has really depressed me, but not for the reasons you might expect. The incident itself of course angers, frustrates, and saddens me. Customers should never be treated like that. But that part of the story doesn't really "surprise" me.
What really has surprised me and made me just sad for humanity is some of the "hot takes" I've heard about the incident. I'm shocked at how many folks just don't even care and don't see it as a big deal, and even like side with United on it. I've heard several folks on the radio and on twitter and stuff saying stuff like "he should've just gotten off the plane when asked. What's the big deal? He deserved what he got since he didn't comply." Like.....what?! Are we that jaded as a society that we don't care when a company beats the shit out of one of its customers...?
That's depressing to me. And then of course the articles come out saying that the doctor isn't a great person and has a checkered past. What in the world does that have to do with anything? Why does his "checkered past" lessen the severity or the awfulness of him getting assaulted by a clueless, tone deaf airline? It doesn't matter if he had just completed and been release from a 30-year murder sentence the day before the incident. What happened would still be just as wrong and shameful and disgusting.
There's a lot wrong in this world.
What really has surprised me and made me just sad for humanity is some of the "hot takes" I've heard about the incident. I'm shocked at how many folks just don't even care and don't see it as a big deal, and even like side with United on it. I've heard several folks on the radio and on twitter and stuff saying stuff like "he should've just gotten off the plane when asked. What's the big deal? He deserved what he got since he didn't comply." Like.....what?! Are we that jaded as a society that we don't care when a company beats the shit out of one of its customers...?
That's depressing to me. And then of course the articles come out saying that the doctor isn't a great person and has a checkered past. What in the world does that have to do with anything? Why does his "checkered past" lessen the severity or the awfulness of him getting assaulted by a clueless, tone deaf airline? It doesn't matter if he had just completed and been release from a 30-year murder sentence the day before the incident. What happened would still be just as wrong and shameful and disgusting.
There's a lot wrong in this world.
A friend of mine at dinner Friday night tried to tell me that United didn't actually overbook the flight. When I gave her the side-eye, she started to pull her phone out of her purse and said, "Here, you need to read this article." I told her I wasn't going to spend our friends' going-away dinner reading crap on a phone so we could argue about it. We agreed to disagree.
The bottom line IMO is that there were a dozen other ways to resolve that situation but instead a man was assaulted. The end.
Found this today from Mike Rowe of "Dirty Jobs" fame:
Off The Wall
Donna Johnson writes...
“I assume you’ve seen the United video. Were you as disturbed as I was? How can a company treat their customers like that and remain in business? I know you fly all the time – what would do if you were the CEO?”
Hi Donna
Like most people, I don’t enjoy seeing passengers dragged down the aisle of a commercial airplane, limp and lifeless. Nor do I enjoy seeing them hogtied at 37,000 feet, (which I’ve also had the occasion to witness – in person – and more than once.)
These kinds of episodes are always disturbing, but what bothered me initially about this video was not just the violence, it was the obvious ease with which it could have been avoided. A little common-sense and the freedom to apply it could have resolved this situation in a dozen different ways. Last night however, I watched a tape of United’s CEO, Oscar Munoz, as he attempted to walk back some earlier comments. He told ABC news that the passenger in question – David Dao - “did nothing wrong.”
Now, I’m no longer disturbed, Donna. I’m merely terrified.
Is Oscar serious? God, I hope not. I hope he’s just doing the typical “over-apology” thing CEO’s do when their “crisis experts” tell them they’ve got to say whatever it takes to win back the public trust. I hope he’s just reacting to some lawyer who told him before the interview, “for the love of God, Oscar, don’t blame the victim!” Well, Oscar certainly didn’t blame the victim. But in the process of finding him blameless, he suggested that millions of passengers are under no obligation to follow a direct command from United employees. And that’s a hell of a lot more disturbing than a beat-down in the main cabin.
Here’s the thing. It’s easy to forget that we have no right to fly. Buying a ticket doesn’t change that. So, when we board the plane, we have no right to remain there. We can be legally removed if we’re too drunk, too loud, too creepy, too suspicious, or too big for the seat. We can be removed if we stink. We can be removed if we’re insubordinate. We can be removed for whatever reason the airline deems necessary.
Obviously, airlines don’t like to remind us of such things, because it makes them sound mean. So they bury the truth in the fine print of a 37,000-word contract, and tell us how much they love us in sappy commercials and mandatory safety briefings that try oh-so-hard to make us smile. But the facts are clear: if you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what you’re told. If you don’t, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. It’s all there in the fine print.
Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I don’t want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore. I’ve been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders.
Moving forward, what matters most to me is a heightened respect for the rules, and a heightened respect for the people who enforce them. Obviously, the policies that led to this particular fiasco need to change. But the greatest enemy we face in the friendly skies is not bad service – it’s anarchy. And I have no interest in flying with anyone who doesn’t follow orders. Do you? Does anyone?
Let me say it again. United made a business decision that was unbelievably, incomprehensibly stupid, and now they’re paying for it. (Seriously guys – what did you think was going to happen with two hundred citizen-reporters armed with cameras?) Point is, this is how the market is supposed to work. Their stock is down hundreds of millions of dollars, their customers are flying on other carriers, and according to CNN, they just might be the most hated company in the world today. But that doesn’t mean Dr. Dao “did nothing wrong.” He did. He ignored a direct order from a United representative while sitting on a United plane. He was told to leave and he refused to do so – multiple times by multiple people – all with the proper authority.
Does that mean he deserved a beating? Of course not. But it doesn’t mean he's innocent. Like the airline, Dr. Dao had options. He had recourse. He could have deplaned and pled his case to the gate agent. But he didn’t. He chose resistance. That was dumb. United chose confrontation. That was dumber. Now, here we are. Dumb and Dumber.
As for your question, Donna – if I were Oscar Munoz, I’d take a page from Charlotte McCourt, the 11-year old Girl Scout who became famous on this page for telling the truth about how Girl Scout cookies actually tasted, and then, wound up selling more Girl Scout cookies than anyone else in the world. First, I’d stop apologizing for the way in which that passenger was removed, and start apologizing for being cheap and short-sighted. Then, I’d apologize for valuing rules more than common sense. Then, if United still insists on overbooking future flights, I’d publicly empower my employees to offer any amount of money to entice people off of an over-sold plane. Whatever it takes – no cap, no limit.
But through it all, I’d make damn sure the world understood that passengers on my airline still need to follow the orders given by my people - even if they think those orders are stupid or unfair. And for that, I would make no apology whatsoever.
Finally, let me say to my many friends on the front line of the airline industry – flight attendants, pilots, gate agents, and those of you behind the counter - I appreciate what you do, sincerely, and I understand how difficult things are right now. Your jobs have become increasingly thankless over the years, even as they have become more critical. Thanks for your hard work.
Mike
PS. Oscar – I’ve prepared a new greeting for your pilots to read prior to take-off. I think it captures the kind of transparency many of your customers currently crave. Maybe one day, as I pull my seatbelt low and tight across my hips, I’ll get to hear it…
“Morning folks, and welcome aboard. This is your Captain speaking. I realize you paid a lot of money to rent the seat you’re currently occupying, but let’s be clear right from the get go – you have no right to be here. We’re glad that you are, but I don’t care how much you paid to fly with us today, or what you think you might be entitled to as a result. I’m in charge of this plane, and everyone on it. That includes you. So - if a flight attendant asks you to do something, don’t argue – just do it. We’ll try to make your flight as comfortable as possible, but make no mistake – your comfort is not our priority, and neither is your opinion about the decisions we make during the journey. As for safety, you’ll be pleased to know I have much to live for, and so does my co-pilot. So rest assured – we’ll be doing all we can up here to get ourselves back on the ground in one piece. That’s good news for the rest of you, assuming we can keep the main cabin attached to the cockpit. Finally, we value your business here at United, sincerely. And we appreciate the trust you’ve placed in us. But let’s not guild the lily. For the next few hours, we’re all in this together, so keep your hands to yourself, don’t get drunk, and listen to the flight attendants. In other words, try not to be an asshole. I’ll see you on the ground...”
Now that’s an airline I could get behind! Who’s with me?
Mike
Off The Wall
Donna Johnson writes...
“I assume you’ve seen the United video. Were you as disturbed as I was? How can a company treat their customers like that and remain in business? I know you fly all the time – what would do if you were the CEO?”
Hi Donna
Like most people, I don’t enjoy seeing passengers dragged down the aisle of a commercial airplane, limp and lifeless. Nor do I enjoy seeing them hogtied at 37,000 feet, (which I’ve also had the occasion to witness – in person – and more than once.)
These kinds of episodes are always disturbing, but what bothered me initially about this video was not just the violence, it was the obvious ease with which it could have been avoided. A little common-sense and the freedom to apply it could have resolved this situation in a dozen different ways. Last night however, I watched a tape of United’s CEO, Oscar Munoz, as he attempted to walk back some earlier comments. He told ABC news that the passenger in question – David Dao - “did nothing wrong.”
Now, I’m no longer disturbed, Donna. I’m merely terrified.
Is Oscar serious? God, I hope not. I hope he’s just doing the typical “over-apology” thing CEO’s do when their “crisis experts” tell them they’ve got to say whatever it takes to win back the public trust. I hope he’s just reacting to some lawyer who told him before the interview, “for the love of God, Oscar, don’t blame the victim!” Well, Oscar certainly didn’t blame the victim. But in the process of finding him blameless, he suggested that millions of passengers are under no obligation to follow a direct command from United employees. And that’s a hell of a lot more disturbing than a beat-down in the main cabin.
Here’s the thing. It’s easy to forget that we have no right to fly. Buying a ticket doesn’t change that. So, when we board the plane, we have no right to remain there. We can be legally removed if we’re too drunk, too loud, too creepy, too suspicious, or too big for the seat. We can be removed if we stink. We can be removed if we’re insubordinate. We can be removed for whatever reason the airline deems necessary.
Obviously, airlines don’t like to remind us of such things, because it makes them sound mean. So they bury the truth in the fine print of a 37,000-word contract, and tell us how much they love us in sappy commercials and mandatory safety briefings that try oh-so-hard to make us smile. But the facts are clear: if you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what you’re told. If you don’t, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. It’s all there in the fine print.
Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I don’t want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore. I’ve been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders.
Moving forward, what matters most to me is a heightened respect for the rules, and a heightened respect for the people who enforce them. Obviously, the policies that led to this particular fiasco need to change. But the greatest enemy we face in the friendly skies is not bad service – it’s anarchy. And I have no interest in flying with anyone who doesn’t follow orders. Do you? Does anyone?
Let me say it again. United made a business decision that was unbelievably, incomprehensibly stupid, and now they’re paying for it. (Seriously guys – what did you think was going to happen with two hundred citizen-reporters armed with cameras?) Point is, this is how the market is supposed to work. Their stock is down hundreds of millions of dollars, their customers are flying on other carriers, and according to CNN, they just might be the most hated company in the world today. But that doesn’t mean Dr. Dao “did nothing wrong.” He did. He ignored a direct order from a United representative while sitting on a United plane. He was told to leave and he refused to do so – multiple times by multiple people – all with the proper authority.
Does that mean he deserved a beating? Of course not. But it doesn’t mean he's innocent. Like the airline, Dr. Dao had options. He had recourse. He could have deplaned and pled his case to the gate agent. But he didn’t. He chose resistance. That was dumb. United chose confrontation. That was dumber. Now, here we are. Dumb and Dumber.
As for your question, Donna – if I were Oscar Munoz, I’d take a page from Charlotte McCourt, the 11-year old Girl Scout who became famous on this page for telling the truth about how Girl Scout cookies actually tasted, and then, wound up selling more Girl Scout cookies than anyone else in the world. First, I’d stop apologizing for the way in which that passenger was removed, and start apologizing for being cheap and short-sighted. Then, I’d apologize for valuing rules more than common sense. Then, if United still insists on overbooking future flights, I’d publicly empower my employees to offer any amount of money to entice people off of an over-sold plane. Whatever it takes – no cap, no limit.
But through it all, I’d make damn sure the world understood that passengers on my airline still need to follow the orders given by my people - even if they think those orders are stupid or unfair. And for that, I would make no apology whatsoever.
Finally, let me say to my many friends on the front line of the airline industry – flight attendants, pilots, gate agents, and those of you behind the counter - I appreciate what you do, sincerely, and I understand how difficult things are right now. Your jobs have become increasingly thankless over the years, even as they have become more critical. Thanks for your hard work.
Mike
PS. Oscar – I’ve prepared a new greeting for your pilots to read prior to take-off. I think it captures the kind of transparency many of your customers currently crave. Maybe one day, as I pull my seatbelt low and tight across my hips, I’ll get to hear it…
“Morning folks, and welcome aboard. This is your Captain speaking. I realize you paid a lot of money to rent the seat you’re currently occupying, but let’s be clear right from the get go – you have no right to be here. We’re glad that you are, but I don’t care how much you paid to fly with us today, or what you think you might be entitled to as a result. I’m in charge of this plane, and everyone on it. That includes you. So - if a flight attendant asks you to do something, don’t argue – just do it. We’ll try to make your flight as comfortable as possible, but make no mistake – your comfort is not our priority, and neither is your opinion about the decisions we make during the journey. As for safety, you’ll be pleased to know I have much to live for, and so does my co-pilot. So rest assured – we’ll be doing all we can up here to get ourselves back on the ground in one piece. That’s good news for the rest of you, assuming we can keep the main cabin attached to the cockpit. Finally, we value your business here at United, sincerely. And we appreciate the trust you’ve placed in us. But let’s not guild the lily. For the next few hours, we’re all in this together, so keep your hands to yourself, don’t get drunk, and listen to the flight attendants. In other words, try not to be an asshole. I’ll see you on the ground...”
Now that’s an airline I could get behind! Who’s with me?
Mike
They should know by now that it isn't a he said- she said argument in the eye of the public. They've screwed themselves and have no creditability at this point. Like you said, if the plane was half full they should have just left them there unless they were in someone else's seat.Sounds like a he-said-she-said incident.
I'm inclined to think a grown-ass man wearing a baseball hat backwards in a television interview might have actually tried to use the "we're getting married" excuse to hold onto a better seat.
On the other hand, considering the flight was half-full, why in the world would United deny them from using the seats? And why did they have to be removed from the plane? These employees sound like corporate robots.
WTF.....?
I mean he manages to make one or two good points, but he does it in the most roundabout, painful, and flat-out weird way possible. I don't like 90% of what he said.
United made the mistake of calling in law enforcement instead of handling it themselves (with vouchers or whatever was needed to get a peaceful resolution). The only other mistake they made was letting the Public Opinion 18-wheeler steamroll them before they knew what happened. If people in the company should be fired - it should be their Public Relations department - because they botched it royally.
Dao in no way deserved to get the crap kicked out of him and dragged off the plane. I'm sure he didn't help matters by being stubborn, but still - that's no excuse to assault the guy. But the real pieces of shit in this story are the Chicago Aviation Officers that did the beating. Just yet another example of law enforcement thinking they're above the very thing they're supposedly enforcing. Those guys are the real d-bags here, and what do they get as a result of kicking the shit outta this guy? A paid vacation - what a fuggin joke.
Well yeah, but the officers were black, so the media isn't going to blame them. But yeah, good shout on the officers being culpable. Homeboy is cool as a cucumber as he's literally dragging the dude off the plane, like it's the most normal, run-of-the-mill thing in the world.
Exactly. If you offer enough incentive someone will volunteer to get off the plane.
I don't think the first statement that insulted and blamed the passenger went through the PR department. Even if it did, does that make the CEO look better? Do you really want a guy running your company that would say that even if it came from the PR people. If I'm the CEO and that's given to me I'm going to tell them they are stupid and not release that statement.
You must not watch his show much or read what he puts out there. Personally, I think he is pretty spot on with this one. All sides were pretty stupid and seemed to be trying to "out stupid" each other. Airline handled it completely wrong. Dude handled it completely wrong. Chicago O'hare po-po handled it completely wrong. The result was the train wreck we saw. Now, who stands to lose more? The airline, of course. The guy second because he probably hoped no one would be looking into his past like they have now and he got a beat-down. Po-po, well, I doubt they will suffer much more than some bruised knuckles.
Personally, I think the best way to have handled this would be for the pilot to state that because this gentleman refused to give up his seat, they were evacuating the entire plane and would have to re-book every single person on there as a result. Tell the entire plane that they have 15 minutes to exit the plane before all power and toilet facilities would be cut off on the plane. Then have everyone walk off and let the passengers deal with the guy. My money says it would take about 5 minutes for them to toss his butt and beg the pilots back on board.
But that is just me and I am somewhat of an arsehole!
True, the CEO looked bad as well. I doubt the PR department green-lit the first statement, but my point was more that they should have gotten ahead of the issue when it first happened and ensured that people were aware of what happened, and who was at fault. When social media got wind of some guy getting his ass kicked on a United flight, everyone jumped to the conclusion that it was a United employee doing the beating, and once that was out there - there was no recovering from it even when the truth came out.
They should have sold the POS Chicago Aviation Officers down the river from jump street.
Ya, true. I wonder if the officers would have taken the heat they deserved if they were white.
I do not, no, but I know who he is. IMO, he's not spot on. His stance is unnecessarily harsh, IMO. It's very possible to provide good customer service and also preserve safety. And if a captain actually said the monologue he wrote, NO ONE would fly that airline.
The main thing, though, where he loses me is when he says United's CEO's statement of "he did nothing wrong" suddenly empowers everyone aboard a plane to turn into an anarchist. That is an extreme reach and is pretty silly, IMO. I understand that he's seen some bad stuff in the air and that's shaped his experiences and opinions. I have flown probably 30 times in my life and I've never seen anything remotely close to an altercation. So I guess that shapes my opinion.
a) Don't be that guy.
b) Without knowing their identities, you can't discern that. If you tell me you can tell from the video I will drive down to Atlanta and slap the s*** outta you.
Richmond County Airport --> Duplin County Airport
The anarchy comment was over the top, but I understand the point he's making:
Moving forward, what matters most to me is a heightened respect for the rules, and a heightened respect for the people who enforce them. Obviously, the policies that led to this particular fiasco need to change. But the greatest enemy we face in the friendly skies is not bad service – it’s anarchy. And I have no interest in flying with anyone who doesn’t follow orders. Do you? Does anyone?
Forgive me for the soapbox, but the same is true of living in a city with thousands of other people, maybe hundreds of thousands. Rules exist so that everyone has guidelines for how to live together as harmoniously as possible. When people start ignoring the rules and/or when they aren't enforced, life becomes more unpleasant for just about everyone except the offending party. The easiest analogy is traffic laws. I see it every day driving around Charlotte, and have seen multiple accidents outside my place of work caused by people who ignored simple traffic rules like "no left turn."
As long as they are in a cage.
Oh I see the point he's making too, but I just think he's out in left field on how terrified of it he seems to be.
And yeah I agree with what you're saying about following rules. To you and me, it's common sense stuff: follow the rules, obey laws, etc. I guess the problem is, and where I'm erring, is assuming all people feel compelled to follow rules and laws like we do. I guess I'm overestimating people lol. It just seems like everyone knows while in the air, you walk on egg shells a bit. I'd never dream of causing a disturbance on an airplane. I like not getting arrested.
Hmm, I guess you're right. I was making an assumption. Obligatory "you know what they say about assumptions"
I don't get it. Are you guys implying that the black arms that were dragging the guy off the plane may have been attached to a white/asian/other body?
I mean I'd be willing to bet $100 the dudes were regular black... not Asian or Arabic or anything like that. But RH is technically right that you can't 100% tell from the video.
This is true. They were dark, so they could have been black, or a darker Hispanic I guess. They, without doubt, were not white - which I believe was the point you were trying to make with the media response (or fear of response).
