Thread about Running

[bleeduncblue]

i'd like to hear some opinions on footstrike: forefoot vs heel strike. i ask bc i have a history of right knee meniscus pain and was told recently that i should take a serious look at how i land. i got some video of myself and realized that i definitely land heel first when i'm not thinking about it. i'm considering trying to change my landing and wondered what y'all think ... any experience / input? TIA

 

[blazers]

This long thread makes me doubt the Boss.

 

[Heelicious]

i'd like to hear some opinions on footstrike: forefoot vs heel strike. i ask bc i have a history of right knee meniscus pain and was told recently that i should take a serious look at how i land. i got some video of myself and realized that i definitely land heel first when i'm not thinking about it. i'm considering trying to change my landing and wondered what y'all think ... any experience / input? TIA

Bleed / Scott - I think you may have my e-mail, but if you don't, ask for it and I'll send info on to you.

There are better runners here than me, but I've averaged about 1,600 miles per year over the last 10-15 years, and closer to 2,000/year the last 3-5 years. In same boat as you, for sure, a few years back.

I feel like I've had most every run injury imaginable, but I had plantar fasciitis a few times, and "ran through it" which is very painful and draining....you never look forward to running with it....running is a chore with PF.

I got so fed up with the injuries, pain, tiredness, weakness, I knew I needed a change. I knew I was a severe heel striker, from going to different PT people and being video-recorded. Plus that's where my shoes would wear out prematurely - even expensive high quality shoes (Asics).

I read a book called Chi Running by Danny Dreyer. He is legit....a lot of local elite runners I knew, swore by his method. He's made an entire business (classes, seminars, videos, etc) out of the concept.

I followed what was in the book almost entirely. It is hard as hell to change how you've run since you were a little kid. Most runners are natural heel strikers....and if you think about it, when you heel strike you are putting literally a ton of stress / weight on your heel (landing point) then "pulling" your body weight from behind, across your legs (vs. leaning and having your weight in front of you).

It took a long time to master, but I learned to do it well, and I have had way less pain, fewer injuries since I adopted it. The book focuses on midfoot strike, a slight lean forward, good posture when running, and running at higher (optimum) steps per minute of 180. That is sort of fast, and takes a while to get used to. But the faster shorter strides go hand in hand with midfoot strike. And if you think of it, the more times your feet are on the ground, the more "body thrust forward actions" you have in each minute. A key tool you need to have, to do this, is a metronome to help get into the approx 180 steps per minute mode. Running with the metronome really helped me a lot. It even helped pace my fastest half marathon, and second fastest marathon, ever.....both for me well after I was 45 years old

I know this is a lot of info.... I just wanted to recommend the book, and the Chi Running method. I know PF is a different injury than what you stated, but I think chi running is good for preventing any injury. It takes a lot of stress off joints. You may want to check out the book. It's an easy, quick read. Like any other self-help, it tells you about 100 things to do different, better....but you can just take the key ones that make sense to you, and leave the rest behind.

 

[bleeduncblue]

Bleed / Scott - I think you may have my e-mail, but if you don't, ask for it and I'll send info on to you.

There are better runners here than me, but I've averaged about 1,600 miles per year over the last 10-15 years, and closer to 2,000/year the last 3-5 years. In same boat as you, for sure, a few years back.

I feel like I've had most every run injury imaginable, but I had plantar fasciitis a few times, and "ran through it" which is very painful and draining....you never look forward to running with it....running is a chore with PF.

I got so fed up with the injuries, pain, tiredness, weakness, I knew I needed a change. I knew I was a severe heel striker, from going to different PT people and being video-recorded. Plus that's where my shoes would wear out prematurely - even expensive high quality shoes (Asics).

I read a book called Chi Running by Danny Dreyer. He is legit....a lot of local elite runners I knew, swore by his method. He's made an entire business (classes, seminars, videos, etc) out of the concept.

I followed what was in the book almost entirely. It is hard as hell to change how you've run since you were a little kid. Most runners are natural heel strikers....and if you think about it, when you heel strike you are putting literally a ton of stress / weight on your heel (landing point) then "pulling" your body weight from behind, across your legs (vs. leaning and having your weight in front of you).

It took a long time to master, but I learned to do it well, and I have had way less pain, fewer injuries since I adopted it. The book focuses on midfoot strike, a slight lean forward, good posture when running, and running at higher (optimum) steps per minute of 180. That is sort of fast, and takes a while to get used to. But the faster shorter strides go hand in hand with midfoot strike. And if you think of it, the more times your feet are on the ground, the more "body thrust forward actions" you have in each minute. A key tool you need to have, to do this, is a metronome to help get into the approx 180 steps per minute mode. Running with the metronome really helped me a lot. It even helped pace my fastest half marathon, and second fastest marathon, ever.....both for me well after I was 45 years old

I know this is a lot of info.... I just wanted to recommend the book, and the Chi Running method. I know PF is a different injury than what you stated, but I think chi running is good for preventing any injury. It takes a lot of stress off joints. You may want to check out the book. It's an easy, quick read. Like any other self-help, it tells you about 100 things to do different, better....but you can just take the key ones that make sense to you, and leave the rest behind.

super helpful, thanks so much. i will definitely get the book ASAP.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

i'd like to hear some opinions on footstrike: forefoot vs heel strike. i ask bc i have a history of right knee meniscus pain and was told recently that i should take a serious look at how i land. i got some video of myself and realized that i definitely land heel first when i'm not thinking about it. i'm considering trying to change my landing and wondered what y'all think ... any experience / input? TIA

Do you mostly run on pavement and concrete? I know I heel strike unless I make an effort not to. I'm able to do a lot of my running on trails and have never had a foot/leg/knee injury except for steeping awkwardly on a rock once. Well, and lost toenails, stubbed toes, and blisters.

 

[gteeitup]

great advice so far...not sure mine will help.

i’ve only been hardcore for five years, and i’ve changed form...this posture thing is so underrated, it’s crazy...i purposefully go poor during a fartlek and correct my posture just to iron it out...i will feel pain or be uncomfortable, correct, then it just levels out...you can almost immediately tell bad form/posture which leads to heel striking and bad cadence.

if you can manage to figure out cadence on an easy run and practice that, then great...that helped me, and my problem was more hip issues(which you don’t want).

by the way, a lacrosse ball for stretching is amazing.

 

[bleeduncblue]

Do you mostly run on pavement and concrete? I know I heel strike unless I make an effort not to. I'm able to do a lot of my running on trails and have never had a foot/leg/knee injury except for steeping awkwardly on a rock once. Well, and lost toenails, stubbed toes, and blisters.

mostly pavement/concrete

 

[gteeitup]

Do you mostly run on pavement and concrete? I know I heel strike unless I make an effort not to. I'm able to do a lot of my running on trails and have never had a foot/leg/knee injury except for steeping awkwardly on a rock once. Well, and lost toenails, stubbed toes, and blisters.

the toenail thing was bizarre for me, ijs

 

[Heelicious]

the toenail thing was bizarre for me, ijs

I've lost all of my toenails for the smaller four toes on each of my feet, a few times (especially middle two toes) ....not from shoes that don't fit....when you put in a lot of miles on a run (say 20-26 at at time....) your feet and toes just swell and "crash" into the front of your shoe toe box, and then usually a blister pops up to press the toenail up and eventually off....

but I never had a big toe - toenail issue until running trails and some steep downhills. It is another level of pain, (and grossness) losing a big toenail....

 

[Grayhead]

I've lost all of my toenails for the smaller four toes on each of my feet, a few times (especially middle two toes) ....not from shoes that don't fit....when you put in a lot of miles on a run (say 20-26 at at time....) your feet and toes just swell and "crash" into the front of your shoe toe box, and then usually a blister pops up to press the toenail up and eventually off....

but I never had a big toe - toenail issue until running trails and some steep downhills. It is another level of pain, (and grossness) losing a big toenail....

Dude. Running till your toenails fall off is extreme.

 

[uncboy10]

Dude. Running till your toenails fall off is extreme.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

but I never had a big toe - toenail issue until running trails and some steep downhills. It is another level of pain, (and grossness) losing a big toenail....

The steep downhill is what gets me. Your feet are sliding forward into the front of the shoe. It happens on steep pavement as well, maybe worse since the shoe grips the pavement better than it does loose dirt.

Losing them comes with the territory but what I really hate is those rare occasions when its like the toenail (always the big toe) seems to get shoved backwards, digging under the skin.

 

[uncboy10]

The Barkley Marathons are under way. Jared Campbell and Courtney Dauwalter are the two names to watch this year IMO

 

[Heelicious]

@WhatTheHeel? I am interested about whether your friend and the person he pushes in a rolling device that you have mentioned - got into Boston 2021. I just joined a FB group called Boston Buddies - that is all about the Boston Marathon entry, training, logistics. I saw a post on there with a picture about a guy and someone he was pushing, and his entry / acceptance time was close to what you stated ( just a bit under 3:25).

I hope your friend(s) got in. I don't know how many runners pushing rollers get in, but in my opinion they all should get in - it is such a difficult feat. Running a marathon is hard enough, let alone pushing another human.

The Boston qualifying standard plus buffer was super tough this year. You had to have a qualifying race that was 7 minutes and 47 seconds faster than the posted BQ standards. And they had made the standards 5 minutes harder for everyone just a few years ago - so to qualify this year, you had to run about 13 minutes faster overall, than just a few years ago - or 30 seconds per mile - which is a lot!

My cushion was 5:04 so I missed the cut by about 2:45 - but I'm not that upset. This would / will be my 4th Boston. They turned away about 9,400 people who had met the pure no-buffer BQ standard. Unfortunate they couldn't let more qualifiers in. This is the 125th consecutive Boston which is a big deal, and the field size is about 2/3 normal size (20,000 vs. 30,000) due to COVID.

I already have a hotel and plane ticket so I am going to go to Boston and run the course virtually in October the Sunday before Boston Monday, then support about a dozen local people I know who made it with even the tougher standard and will run on Monday.

Via this new FB group I'm in - they are providing support for virtual runners Saturday and Sunday before. I've heard there may be as many as 1,000 virtual runners on the Boston course that Saturday or Sunday before Boston Marathon Monday.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

@WhatTheHeel? I am interested about whether your friend and the person he pushes in a rolling device that you have mentioned - got into Boston 2021. I just joined a FB group called Boston Buddies - that is all about the Boston Marathon entry, training, logistics. I saw a post on there with a picture about a guy and someone he was pushing, and his entry / acceptance time was close to what you stated ( just a bit under 3:25).

I hope your friend(s) got in. I don't know how many runners pushing rollers get in, but in my opinion they all should get in - it is such a difficult feat. Running a marathon is hard enough, let alone pushing another human.

The Boston qualifying standard plus buffer was super tough this year. You had to have a qualifying race that was 7 minutes and 47 seconds faster than the posted BQ standards. And they had made the standards 5 minutes harder for everyone just a few years ago - so to qualify this year, you had to run about 13 minutes faster overall, than just a few years ago - or 30 seconds per mile - which is a lot!

My cushion was 5:04 so I missed the cut by about 2:45 - but I'm not that upset. This would / will be my 4th Boston. They turned away about 9,400 people who had met the pure no-buffer BQ standard. Unfortunate they couldn't let more qualifiers in. This is the 125th consecutive Boston which is a big deal, and the field size is about 2/3 normal size (20,000 vs. 30,000) due to COVID.

I already have a hotel and plane ticket so I am going to go to Boston and run the course virtually in October the Sunday before Boston Monday, then support about a dozen local people I know who made it with even the tougher standard and will run on Monday.

Via this new FB group I'm in - they are providing support for virtual runners Saturday and Sunday before. I've heard there may be as many as 1,000 virtual runners on the Boston course that Saturday or Sunday before Boston Marathon Monday.

My friend (Bill) did get in. He needed a 3:35 (he's 55 or 56) and qualified with a 3:23. He's excited. His son is maybe about 20-22 and has Angleman's Syndrome. It's obviously tough to push a 110-120# person, but I think he also gets motivation from his son.

I'll be watching because I believe they, and the wheelchair division, start first. So, we may see them start and we may see them when the leaders pass them. He told me once how many they allow in and it really wasn't many at all--maybe 20 or 25?--though since they hold them to the same time standard, there probably aren't a ton of qualifiers. Bill ran a 2:34 "back in the day" so he's always had the lungs and legs for it.

How does the virtual event work? Will the road be closed?

I've qualified for Boston in the past but never wanted to do a race with so many people. The largest races I've done are Pittsburgh Marathon and UTMB, both with a couple thousand people. I guess I like it when the field thins out and you're on your own. Most of my races have 100-200 people, at most. I guess it's kind of like a big party when you're shoulder-to-shoulder the entire time; sort of a celebration of your accomplishment of getting there.

 

[Heelicious]

My friend (Bill) did get in. He needed a 3:35 (he's 55 or 56) and qualified with a 3:23. He's excited. His son is maybe about 20-22 and has Angleman's Syndrome. It's obviously tough to push a 110-120# person, but I think he also gets motivation from his son.

I'll be watching because I believe they, and the wheelchair division, start first. So, we may see them start and we may see them when the leaders pass them. He told me once how many they allow in and it really wasn't many at all--maybe 20 or 25?--though since they hold them to the same time standard, there probably aren't a ton of qualifiers. Bill ran a 2:34 "back in the day" so he's always had the lungs and legs for it.

How does the virtual event work? Will the road be closed?

I've qualified for Boston in the past but never wanted to do a race with so many people. The largest races I've done are Pittsburgh Marathon and UTMB, both with a couple thousand people. I guess I like it when the field thins out and you're on your own. Most of my races have 100-200 people, at most. I guess it's kind of like a big party when you're shoulder-to-shoulder the entire time; sort of a celebration of your accomplishment of getting there.

@WhatTheHeel? Congrats to your friend (Bill). His time now, and the 2:34 is beyond impressive. I know quite a few local runners and I don't think I know anyone well personally who has run a marathon that fast.

For the virtual - who knows? This virtual right before the real race day is all new territory, but I've heard that in past years, several people have run much of the Boston course on the peak miles (20-22) training run, so it should be OK I think. A lot of it in the beginning at least is in very small towns and communities, but some of the roads don't have much of a shoulder, and none of the roads will be closed I assume. It seems that maybe BAA could have done that....close the roads for early Sunday morning as well as Monday. Possibly the traffic on an average Sunday morning outside of Boston, won't be too bad. And possibly if police hear of the virtual runners, they will do a bit to help keep the virtual course safe. It is so great how much pride everyone in the city of Boston and surrounding towns take such pride in the Boston Marathon, and any part they can play in it.

ha ha - I am with you regarding your comments above about big races. Definitely the worst pre-race feelings I've had have been at the large, World Major Marathons starting points. Especially Berlin, London, NYC, Boston. Chicago didn't seem that bad.

First, you have to line up, be in the corral literally 30-60 minutes beforehand. Then it is usually close to a mile to walk from corrals to the actual start. This is the point where you have a lot of time to think about - and look down the barrel of - a lot of grinding, exertion, exhaustion, etc - soon upcoming. It just takes so much space and time to coordinate logistics for 30,000-50,000 runners.

And regarding crowds - I am so with you on that. At that point in the starting line, you can't relieve yourself any more. And you are in very close contact with many thousands of others - who knows when they last bathed? The smell in the tight quarters of Berlin Marathon start corrals especially - B.O. overload inches away- it made me nearly physically ill, holding back vomit. What a fun way to start a race.

At Boston the first time I ran it in person (2016) I knew I was in trouble when I started sweating waiting in the corral for the start. It was about 75 degrees. Too hot.

So yes - running in smaller races is so much better, but there are a lot of good things about being able to say you've done the world major marathons as well....largely because while they generally have a lot of runners, it can be quite difficult to get into them...especially London, Tokyo, NYC, and Boston.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

@WhatTheHeel? Congrats to your friend (Bill). His time now, and the 2:34 is beyond impressive. I know quite a few local runners and I don't think I know anyone well personally who has run a marathon that fast.

For the virtual - who knows? This virtual right before the real race day is all new territory, but I've heard that in past years, several people have run much of the Boston course on the peak miles (20-22) training run, so it should be OK I think. A lot of it in the beginning at least is in very small towns and communities, but some of the roads don't have much of a shoulder, and none of the roads will be closed I assume. It seems that maybe BAA could have done that....close the roads for early Sunday morning as well as Monday. Possibly the traffic on an average Sunday morning outside of Boston, won't be too bad. And possibly if police hear of the virtual runners, they will do a bit to help keep the virtual course safe. It is so great how much pride everyone in the city of Boston and surrounding towns take such pride in the Boston Marathon, and any part they can play in it.

ha ha - I am with you regarding your comments above about big races. Definitely the worst pre-race feelings I've had have been at the large, World Major Marathons starting points. Especially Berlin, London, NYC, Boston. Chicago didn't seem that bad.

First, you have to line up, be in the corral literally 30-60 minutes beforehand. Then it is usually close to a mile to walk from corrals to the actual start. This is the point where you have a lot of time to think about - and look down the barrel of - a lot of grinding, exertion, exhaustion, etc - soon upcoming. It just takes so much space and time to coordinate logistics for 30,000-50,000 runners.

And regarding crowds - I am so with you on that. At that point in the starting line, you can't relieve yourself any more. And you are in very close contact with many thousands of others - who knows when they last bathed? The smell in the tight quarters of Berlin Marathon start corrals especially - B.O. overload inches away- it made me nearly physically ill, holding back vomit. What a fun way to start a race.

At Boston the first time I ran it in person (2016) I knew I was in trouble when I started sweating waiting in the corral for the start. It was about 75 degrees. Too hot.

So yes - running in smaller races is so much better, but there are a lot of good things about being able to say you've done the world major marathons as well....largely because while they generally have a lot of runners, it can be quite difficult to get into them...especially London, Tokyo, NYC, and Boston.

LOL. I never thought about the smell in the corrals. I went to the start at UTMB an hour early and I was almost in the back when we started. And that was only a few thousand people, not 30-50,000.

Small, trail races are great. If you gotta go to the bathroom, there are plenty of spots and you're probably 1/2 mile from anyone else!

But, that's so cool that you'll finish the international grand slam. I know some 50-staters, but no people who have done all the world majors.

 

[Heelicious]

LOL. I never thought about the smell in the corrals. I went to the start at UTMB an hour early and I was almost in the back when we started. And that was only a few thousand people, not 30-50,000.

Small, trail races are great. If you gotta go to the bathroom, there are plenty of spots and you're probably 1/2 mile from anyone else!

But, that's so cool that you'll finish the international grand slam. I know some 50-staters, but no people who have done all the world majors.

Abbott Corporation is the company that sponsors tracking and rewarding people via the 6-star World Major Marathon achievement. The elites compete to earn points in these 6 world majors each year (Boston, NYC, London, Chicago, Berlin, Tokyo). This year - fall 2021, all 6 WMMs are literally within 8-10 weeks of each other I think.

I think there are somewhere in the range of 6,000-8,000 runners worldwide who have completed all six majors. I only know fewer than a half dozen of them personally, but it is a goal for a lot of people. It usually takes several years to accomplish. If Tokyo happens this fall, it will be my 6th of 6 world majors, and I get the fancy medal. I was on track to have done all 6 in about 2.5 years, but with COVID it has extended to about 4-4.5 years.

Running a marathon all 50 states is a big achievement too. I don't think I could do that. I've only run 13 full marathons, but have run about 115 half marathons, including all 50 states, DC, and about a half dozen other countries (Mexico, Canada, Ireland, Jamaica, etc)

 

[gteeitup]

not really a running question, but more about how to approach it now.

i have a either a strained or torn oblique and it’s excruciating...i can’t laugh, cough, or sneeze...any torque sucks, but walking seems okay...i’m assuming it happened during disc golf with my son yesterday, but i don’t know...i quit with four holes left because it was hard to breathe and bend.

has anyone suffered this injury and as a runner, can you still run???

 

[uncboy10]

not really a running question, but more about how to approach it now.

i have a either a strained or torn oblique and it’s excruciating...i can’t laugh, cough, or sneeze...any torque sucks, but walking seems okay...i’m assuming it happened during disc golf with my son yesterday, but i don’t know...i quit with four holes left because it was hard to breathe and bend.

has anyone suffered this injury and as a runner, can you still run???

I know nothing about that injury but it sounds shitty

 

[uncboy10]

My name is moving up the pinhoti 100 waitlist faster than I am comfortable with... 😅

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

not really a running question, but more about how to approach it now.

i have a either a strained or torn oblique and it’s excruciating...i can’t laugh, cough, or sneeze...any torque sucks, but walking seems okay...i’m assuming it happened during disc golf with my son yesterday, but i don’t know...i quit with four holes left because it was hard to breathe and bend.

has anyone suffered this injury and as a runner, can you still run???

I have not, though I've pulled lower back muscles (or tendons/ligaments?) and still run. I'm not sure how relatable the two are, but I did have to be careful not to tweak it when I ran. I guess you could try short runs to see how it feels, but if it's hard to breathe, it doesn't sound like it would go well.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

21 die in China ultramarathon.

I've been in some situations where I wasn't prepared for the weather, but nothing to this extent.

 

[uncboy10]

21 die in China ultramarathon.

I've been in some situations where I wasn't prepared for the weather, but nothing to this extent.

Its completely surreal that 21 people could die in a race.

The ultra world is full of races that are famous for their extreme terrain, weather, or in many cases both. There are literally ultras in the Arctic and people make it out fine. The race staff and emergency services clearly weren’t prepared to deal with this type of situation.

 

[gteeitup]

recently purchased and am using a treadmill to supplement road running...i’ve always been purposely dialed in on my cadence, mostly because i’m not a great distance runner at this point having never participated in a marathon.

having said that, should i not be concerned or thinking about my cadence on a treadmill?...is this a question that only you highly experienced know the answer to?

 

[Heelicious]

Its completely surreal that 21 people could die in a race.

The ultra world is full of races that are famous for their extreme terrain, weather, or in many cases both. There are literally ultras in the Arctic and people make it out fine. The race staff and emergency services clearly weren’t prepared to deal with this type of situation.

yes.
it sounds like hypothermia may have been the primary COD.

I ran a really tough 25K in October last year, on a very challenging technically (super hilly, rocky, slippery, narrow single track trails through trees, in about 4 inches of snow, and rain, and mid 20s- mid 30s F temps. It took me 8.5 hours.

About 25% of the original 250 that signed up never started or never finished. But even then, those conditions were probably like a 4 or 5 on a 10 scale compared to the 9 on a 10 scale of these China conditions.

And our race director called off the 100K because it would be too long, dark, cold, dangerous. Still - they kept close track at several check points through the 50K making sure they accounted for every runner, and that nobody was lost or fallen out on the course. I could easily see a 100K stretch out to nearly 20 hours in those conditions. Very dangerous, especially with cold and rain.

That's why I wonder how many runners ran this 100K in China. I know they have a huge population, and likely more runners, but it seems like they should have a way to know where every runner is (GPS tag, etc) - and have a way for runners / volunteers to alert if they are in trouble, need help, etc.

I do generally think China puts a lower value on human life than those in the West, especially America.

 

[uncboy10]

yes.
it sounds like hypothermia may have been the primary COD.

I ran a really tough 25K in October last year, on a very challenging technically (super hilly, rocky, slippery, narrow single track trails through trees, in about 4 inches of snow, and rain, and mid 20s- mid 30s F temps. It took me 8.5 hours.

About 25% of the original 250 that signed up never started or never finished. But even then, those conditions were probably like a 4 or 5 on a 10 scale compared to the 9 on a 10 scale of these China conditions.

And our race director called off the 100K because it would be too long, dark, cold, dangerous. Still - they kept close track at several check points through the 50K making sure they accounted for every runner, and that nobody was lost or fallen out on the course.

That's why I wonder how many runners ran this 100K in China. I know they have a huge population, and likely more runners, but it seems like they should have a way to know where every runner is (GPS tag, etc) - and have a way for runners / volunteers to alert if they are in trouble, need help, etc.

I do generally think China puts a lower value on human life than those in the West, especially America.

I think it was roughly 150 total runners who started.

China has been trying to develop a trail racing scene, with new ultras popping up all over the place. This could pretty much grind that progress to a halt. Nobody is going to want to race somewhere they don’t feel safe.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

yes.
it sounds like hypothermia may have been the primary COD.

I ran a really tough 25K in October last year, on a very challenging technically (super hilly, rocky, slippery, narrow single track trails through trees, in about 4 inches of snow, and rain, and mid 20s- mid 30s F temps. It took me 8.5 hours.

About 25% of the original 250 that signed up never started or never finished. But even then, those conditions were probably like a 4 or 5 on a 10 scale compared to the 9 on a 10 scale of these China conditions.

And our race director called off the 100K because it would be too long, dark, cold, dangerous. Still - they kept close track at several check points through the 50K making sure they accounted for every runner, and that nobody was lost or fallen out on the course. I could easily see a 100K stretch out to nearly 20 hours in those conditions. Very dangerous, especially with cold and rain.

That's why I wonder how many runners ran this 100K in China. I know they have a huge population, and likely more runners, but it seems like they should have a way to know where every runner is (GPS tag, etc) - and have a way for runners / volunteers to alert if they are in trouble, need help, etc.

I do generally think China puts a lower value on human life than those in the West, especially America.

There were 172 starters. From the one picture I saw, the terrain had no trees or cover of any sort. It said some accidentally wandered off the trail because of the conditions.

I was in an October race in Virginia as a hurricane made its way up the coast. I had a crew, but they could only meet me every 15-20 miles. At one spot, I gave them my rain jacket because it was bulky and uncomfortable. This left me in shorts and short sleeves and a pack. Well, after that point, the course climbed, cooled, and the rain got harder. I was shivering and knew I'd have to drop at the next aid station, if I made it there. I was "running" with a guy who was also struggling, so we tried to encourage each other. When I finally reached the aid station, they had a small fire going. I asked if they had a trash bag (figuring I could put it over me to keep the rain off) to get me to the turnaround, where my crew was. They didn't (or didn't have one to spare) but the aid station captain was a club president or something and loaned me a jacket. I made it to the turnaround, changed clothes, and returned the jacket when I came back through the aid station. I think the guy was surprised to get it back.

My friends who were crewing still talk about how they were waiting for me in that same weather, thinking about how unwise it had been for me to give up my rain jacket.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

recently purchased and am using a treadmill to supplement road running...i’ve always been purposely dialed in on my cadence, mostly because i’m not a great distance runner at this point having never participated in a marathon.

having said that, should i not be concerned or thinking about my cadence on a treadmill?...is this a question that only you highly experienced know the answer to?

To answer your question, I have a lot of trouble running on a treadmill, except where I ramp up the incline. My problem is that if it's fairly flat, I feel like I'm just jumping and letting the "road" go by beneath me. I don't think it affects my cadence so much as my stride. I also burn up if there isn't a fan.

I have heard stories of people who trained for marathons solely on a treadmill. My take is its better than nothing, but I'd rather run in the rain/snow than inside. As long as I'm prepared for it...

 

[Heelicious]

To answer your question, I have a lot of trouble running on a treadmill, except where I ramp up the incline. My problem is that if it's fairly flat, I feel like I'm just jumping and letting the "road" go by beneath me. I don't think it affects my cadence so much as my stride. I also burn up if there isn't a fan.

I have heard stories of people who trained for marathons solely on a treadmill. My take is its better than nothing, but I'd rather run in the rain/snow than inside. As long as I'm prepared for it...

I really don't like treadmills for the exact reasons you mentioned; plus it seems really boring. I have a super hard time keeping the same miles per hour pace on a treadmill that I can consistently maintain outdoors. It needs to get below zero windchill before I'd consider doing a long run on a tread mill. And then, I'd rather use a Zero Runner machine instead.

But more back to @gteeitup 's ;question: I wouldn't worry at all about what the treadmill shows for pace. It is hard to equate it to outdoor running. And- as @WhatTheHeel? said I think - the impact on a treadmill is usually significantly softer and more forgiving than outdoor running on pavement or especially concrete. So that is a nice benefit.

 

[uncboy10]

Power hiking at a moderate incline while watching tv is also a great way to get some lower impact aerobic work in. And you’d just be sitting on your ass if you weren’t on it.

I’ve been using easy walks on the treadmill to get some blood flowing, then I’ll do some foam rolling and stretching to (hopefully) aid recovery. Seems to be helping. It’s also easy time on feet and I might as well develop the walking muscles too because I’m gonna need em.

 

[gteeitup]

i bought a nordictrack with the tv screen so we could “experience” the outdoor elevation while doing hikes, running in towns, etc...plus the training programs are pretty cool.

as far as exercise goes, it’s probably the best purchase i’ve ever made, other than my first gym membership when i was in college...the ifit technology is unbelievable.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

i bought a nordictrack with the tv screen so we could “experience” the outdoor elevation while doing hikes, running in towns, etc...plus the training programs are pretty cool.

as far as exercise goes, it’s probably the best purchase i’ve ever made, other than my first gym membership when i was in college...the ifit technology is unbelievable.

Is it the kind of screen that you can do courses and it shows you running along them, or is it just for television?

I went into a gym recently and it had a stationary bike that had different routes and other virtual riders you competed against. It was computer graphics, not real imagery, but it made it kind of fun. I rode it just to see what it was like. I was feeling pretty good about myself with all the people I passed during the three mile "race." Then when I was done it showed the top times. Well, that was deflating. I found that I couldn't seem to get it to go fast on the downhills and wonder if I was doing something wrong. Anyway, the uphills noticably created more resistance in the pedals and you had to downshift to lower gears. You also had to turn, but you couldn't lean into turns like a real bike, so it was kind of awkward to steer a bike around corners.

The only indoor equipment I have at home is a set of adjustable weight dumbbells (5-55#) I really like them.

 

[Heelicious]

Is it the kind of screen that you can do courses and it shows you running along them, or is it just for television?

I went into a gym recently and it had a stationary bike that had different routes and other virtual riders you competed against. It was computer graphics, not real imagery, but it made it kind of fun. I rode it just to see what it was like. I was feeling pretty good about myself with all the people I passed during the three mile "race." Then when I was done it showed the top times. Well, that was deflating. I found that I couldn't seem to get it to go fast on the downhills and wonder if I was doing something wrong. Anyway, the uphills noticably created more resistance in the pedals and you had to downshift to lower gears. You also had to turn, but you couldn't lean into turns like a real bike, so it was kind of awkward to steer a bike around corners.

The only indoor equipment I have at home is a set of adjustable weight dumbbells (5-55#) I really like them.

@WhatTheHeel? I did a stationary bike this week, sort of like the one you said, but you couldn't really shift gears, you could just set the average resistance level from 1-20. I set it at about 13-14 but it would vary between 11 and 16 based on uphill or downhill. I liked it in that it gave me a good bike workout and I think I averaged just above 20 MPH, for 25 miles. I can't nearly do that at this point on an outside road bike. I am training for an August 5k run / 11 mile bike / 5K run duathlon in late Augusts.

It was hot and windy outside that day, and it can be hard to find a sustained hard workout without any fear of hitting other bikers, walkers, or getting smoked by a car or truck at an intersection. I am sort of a workout weather wuss, but it is nice to "ride" sometimes, without the minor or major stress of a potential wreck or especially harm to others.

This stationary bike had options for a few very fuzzy, no volume tv stations, or selection of bike routes in Paris - I assume the easier legs of Tour de France. It is much more enjoyable to view the scenery.

I think it is a major outlay, but the Peleton bikes I think allow you to do the leans, and gear shifts, and a much more realistic experience regarding virtual competition against others riding at the same time...on a virtual course anywhere in the world. The virtual options are endless - but it just seems to me that you are talking big time money to get into the Peleton mode - both for the bike (or treadmill) and subscription to the virtual / training programs.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

@WhatTheHeel? I did a stationary bike this week, sort of like the one you said, but you couldn't really shift gears, you could just set the average resistance level from 1-20. I set it at about 13-14 but it would vary between 11 and 16 based on uphill or downhill. I liked it in that it gave me a good bike workout and I think I averaged just above 20 MPH, for 25 miles. I can't nearly do that at this point on an outside road bike. I am training for an August 5k run / 11 mile bike / 5K run duathlon in late Augusts.

It was hot and windy outside that day, and it can be hard to find a sustained hard workout without any fear of hitting other bikers, walkers, or getting smoked by a car or truck at an intersection. I am sort of a workout weather wuss, but it is nice to "ride" sometimes, without the minor or major stress of a potential wreck or especially harm to others.

This stationary bike had options for a few very fuzzy, no volume tv stations, or selection of bike routes in Paris - I assume the easier legs of Tour de France. It is much more enjoyable to view the scenery.

I think it is a major outlay, but the Peleton bikes I think allow you to do the leans, and gear shifts, and a much more realistic experience regarding virtual competition against others riding at the same time...on a virtual course anywhere in the world. The virtual options are endless - but it just seems to me that you are talking big time money to get into the Peleton mode - both for the bike (or treadmill) and subscription to the virtual / training programs.

This is what I was on: https://expresso.com/

That was the first time I've "ridden" in years. I really need to dust off my mountain bike. Good luck in your duathlon!

 

[gteeitup]

Is it the kind of screen that you can do courses and it shows you running along them, or is it just for television?

I went into a gym recently and it had a stationary bike that had different routes and other virtual riders you competed against. It was computer graphics, not real imagery, but it made it kind of fun. I rode it just to see what it was like. I was feeling pretty good about myself with all the people I passed during the three mile "race." Then when I was done it showed the top times. Well, that was deflating. I found that I couldn't seem to get it to go fast on the downhills and wonder if I was doing something wrong. Anyway, the uphills noticably created more resistance in the pedals and you had to downshift to lower gears. You also had to turn, but you couldn't lean into turns like a real bike, so it was kind of awkward to steer a bike around corners.

The only indoor equipment I have at home is a set of adjustable weight dumbbells (5-55#) I really like them.

yes...they have live training, one on one, or create your own, like in your n’hood.

i can create a course anywhere in the world, run with the trainer in peru or kitty hawk, climb matterhorn, or just walk.

the thing that i like the best is it adjusts on the fly...i don’t have to manually up the incline or increase the decline.

i also have those dumbbells, lol...they are great.

here’s the machine:

 

[uncboy10]

Merry Statesmas everyone

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

Merry Statesmas everyone

View embedded media

I know they're experiencing record heat in California. Any idea of the temps today?

 

[uncboy10]

I know they're experiencing record heat in California. Any idea of the temps today?

Supposed to be hotter than the devil's dick today. Everyone was predicting slow times, but the front runners are out super quick because there wasn't any snow left in the high country.

Walmsley and Hayden Hawks are up front. They ran 6:51 pace from Red Star to Duncan

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

Supposed to be hotter than the devil's dick today. Everyone was predicting slow times, but the front runners are out super quick because there wasn't any snow left in the high country.

Walmsley and Hayden Hawks are up front. They ran 6:51 pace from Red Star to Duncan

Lots of downhill on that stretch. We'll see how it goes. They always say "The race begins in Foresthill..."