Trump & Hillary

[Raising Heel]

So now Trump -- the guy who refuses to believe Obama's birth certificate and citizenship are legit -- announces he will not be releasing his tax returns. He also tells the Russians he hopes they hack Hillary's emails, essentially advocating for an adversarial foreign power to obtain state secrets.

Hillary, meanwhile, refuses to release transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street businesses and of course is the idiot stupid enough to be using a personal email server to discuss state business in the first place.

God help us all.

 

[uncboy10]

So now Trump -- the guy who refuses to believe Obama's birth certificate and citizenship are legit -- announces he will not be releasing his tax returns. He also tells the Russians he hopes they hack Hillary's emails, essentially advocating for an adversarial foreign power to obtain state secrets.

Hillary, meanwhile, refuses to release transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street businesses and of course is the idiot stupid enough to be using a personal email server to discuss state business in the first place.

God help us all.

I'd give her more credit than that. Using a private server wasn't an idiot move. It was a deliberate attempt to circumvent the Freedom of Information Act.

 

[Raising Heel]

I'd give her more credit than that. Using a private server wasn't an idiot move. It was a deliberate act to circumvent the Freedom of Information Act.

Beg to differ. If another nation ends up obtaining U.S. intelligence information from her emails, she is most certainly an idiot.

 

[uncboy10]

Beg to differ. If another nation ends up obtaining U.S. intelligence information from her emails, she is most certainly an idiot.

Ah, yeah if the server wasn't properly secured that would still qualify as an idiot move. I thought you were going more in the direction that she was just an idiot, but not a criminal one.

 

[Raising Heel]

This whole election:

 

[Raising Heel]

Ah, yeah if the server wasn't properly secured that would still qualify as an idiot move. I thought you were going more in the direction that she was just an idiot, but not a criminal one.

Not at all. I haven't voiced my disdain for HRC often, but only because it is dwarfed by my disdain for Trump. She lost my respect years ago for her handling of Bill's numerous extramarital affairs, and it's all been downhill from there.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

So now Trump -- the guy who refuses to believe Obama's birth certificate and citizenship are legit -- announces he will not be releasing his tax returns. He also tells the Russians he hopes they hack Hillary's emails, essentially advocating for an adversarial foreign power to obtain state secrets.

Hillary, meanwhile, refuses to release transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street businesses and of course is the idiot stupid enough to be using a personal email server to discuss state business in the first place.

God help us all.

The Russians likely already have her emails from her unauthorized, non-secure, home-brew server that was used to process highly classified information. This would include not only the classified emails but also the Clinton Foundation emails that HRC deleted. That was the real reason HRC wanted the home-brew server, to keep the Clinton Foundation email traffic off of a State.gov account that would have been subject to FOIA requests...

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

The IRS confirmed in a letter it is looking into claims of “pay-to-play” practices at the Clinton Foundation, after dozens of Republican lawmakers requested a review of potential “criminal conduct” at the organization founded by the family at the center of this week’s Democratic National Convention.

Commissioner John Koskinen wrote in a July 22 letter to Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn that the issue has been “forwarded” to the IRS “Exempt Organizations Examinations” program in Dallas.

“This program considers all referrals and will send you a separate acknowledgement letter when it receives your information,” he wrote, in a letter first reported by The Daily Caller.

Gotta wonder if this will go the same way as the conservatives/Tea Party targeting scandal, i.e. nowhere.

 

[strummingram]

- D

- R

 

[strummingram]

North Korea says Trump isn't screwy at all, a wise choice for president

 

[tarheel0910]

North Korea says Trump isn't screwy at all, a wise choice for president

Shouldn't you be happy about this? If they like him, that would decrease the chance of war right?

 

[strummingram]

Shouldn't you be happy about this? If they like him, that would decrease the chance of war right?

Now, I'm sold. When dictators love the guy, then, really, what's not to like?

 

[Blue2010]

Can someone help me understand the significance of releasing your personal tax returns? Just seems to me like a 'grasping for straws' tactic.

 

[UNC71-00]

So now Trump -- the guy who refuses to believe Obama's birth certificate and citizenship are legit -- announces he will not be releasing his tax returns. He also tells the Russians he hopes they hack Hillary's emails, essentially advocating for an adversarial foreign power to obtain state secrets.

Hillary, meanwhile, refuses to release transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street businesses and of course is the idiot stupid enough to be using a personal email server to discuss state business in the first place.

God help us all.

For starters, the Obama birth certificate nonsense originated with the Hillary campaign in 08.

As far as Trumps comment re Russia- how would his request for the Rooskies to release 30000 emails about yoga, Chelsea's wedding and grandchildren constitute a threat to any national security?

Trumps comment itself though was genius- he took all the attention right off of Hillary and the convention and now everyone is wondering about Hillary and emails again. Dude is a friggin genius.

 

[tarheel0910]

Now, I'm sold. When dictators love the guy, then, really, what's not to like?

Why does it matter who likes him? Both you and @chick_bleeds_carolina_blue have stated that you don't want to interfere with anyone over there. You don't normally attack people you like. This accomplishes what you want to happen, for everyone to love each other and prevent war. Is there an exception to that goal that I didn't catch?

 

[tarheel0910]

Can someone help me understand the significance of releasing your personal tax returns? Just seems to me like a 'grasping for straws' tactic.

I've never understood why any president releases their tax return. It's not a requirement. I know the standard party line is that they need to make sure they are good with their personal finances before being in charge of the country's finances. That's just a load of crap to me.

 

[Raising Heel]

For starters, the Obama birth certificate nonsense originated with the Hillary campaign in 08.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Trump demanded transparency yet offers none himself. Just another hypocrite.

As far as Trumps comment re Russia- how would his request for the Rooskies to release 30000 emails about yoga, Chelsea's wedding and grandchildren constitute a threat to any national security?

Your sarcasm is duly noted, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't complain about Hillary's emails containing classified information but also dismiss Trump's remarks.

 

[Raising Heel]

I've never understood why any president releases their tax return. It's not a requirement. I know the standard party line is that they need to make sure they are good with their personal finances before being in charge of the country's finances. That's just a load of crap to me.

It's a show of goodwill towards voters IMO. It's part of the public vetting process. Voters want to know a candidate's effective tax rate, the charities to which the candidate donates, how the candidate invests, etc. It can help round out the candidate's profile, which is important whether you vote based on character or policy or some combination of the two. Again, just my opinion, but running for the highest office in the country demands a certain amount of disclosure. A refusal to release tax returns looks like you have something to hide.

 

[prlyles]

It's a show of goodwill towards voters IMO. It's part of the public vetting process. Voters want to know a candidate's effective tax rate, the charities to which the candidate donates, how the candidate invests, etc. It can help round out the candidate's profile, which is important whether you vote based on character or policy or some combination of the two. Again, just my opinion, but running for the highest office in the country demands a certain amount of disclosure. A refusal to release tax returns looks like you have something to hide.

It's a show of goodwill towards voters IMO. It's part of the public vetting process. Voters want to know a candidate's effective tax rate, the charities to which the candidate donates, how the candidate invests, etc. It can help round out the candidate's profile, which is important whether you vote based on character or policy or some combination of the two. Again, just my opinion, but running for the highest office in the country demands a certain amount of disclosure. A refusal to release tax returns looks like you have something to hide.

I agree.

 

[Blue2010]

I've never understood why any president releases their tax return. It's not a requirement. I know the standard party line is that they need to make sure they are good with their personal finances before being in charge of the country's finances. That's just a load of crap to me.

I can understand that. Being an accountant myself, I just don't see the correlation. Tax returns are not a good representation IMHO of how you've managed your finances b/c every (good) accountant will tell you their #1 objective when completing a tax return is to save the taxpayer as much as humanly possible. That by itself taints the full credibility of using them as a measuring stick of how well someone would handle the country's finances.

Also -- it is true about allowing the audit process to be completed. If the audit finds routine errors, adjustments are made to those tax returns to make sure they are in compliance with GAAP. It is irresponsible to release incomplete returns that have a strong possibility of needing to be adjusted before they are officially filed.

This just seems to me like a tactic used to create just enough doubt to discredit someone, and the general public doesn't understand taxes to begin with...

 

[tarheel0910]

It's a show of goodwill towards voters IMO. It's part of the public vetting process. Voters want to know a candidate's effective tax rate, the charities to which the candidate donates, how the candidate invests, etc. It can help round out the candidate's profile, which is important whether you vote based on character or policy or some combination of the two. Again, just my opinion, but running for the highest office in the country demands a certain amount of disclosure. A refusal to release tax returns looks like you have something to hide.

I just don't think a tax return is indicative of how a candidate shapes their policies. That being said, you have a right to be wrong by disagreeing with me. IMO, that's a fact.

 

[tarheel0910]

I can understand that. Being an accountant myself, I just don't see the correlation. Tax returns are not a good representation IMHO of how you've managed your finances b/c every (good) accountant will tell you their #1 objective when completing a tax return is to save the taxpayer as much as humanly possible. That by itself taints the full credibility of using them as a measuring stick of how well someone would handle the country's finances.

Also -- it is true about allowing the audit process to be completed. If the audit finds routine errors, adjustments are made to those tax returns to make sure they are in compliance with GAAP. It is irresponsible to release incomplete returns that have a strong possibility of needing to be adjusted before they are officially filed.

This just seems to me like a tactic used to create just enough doubt to discredit someone, and the general public doesn't understand taxes to begin with...

Agreed, but never bring up GAAP again. I don't know what I hated talking about more in school, GAAP or Sarbanes-Oxley.

 

[Blue2010]

To go further, since his children are so involved in his businesses, it makes complete sense that this is a long, drawn-out audit process. That scenario creates a massive amount of "related party transaction" risk, and they have to literally go line-by-line to vet that out.

This really is a "nothing to see here" thing to me. I don't think many (if any) other presidents had this much going on outside of politics, so their tax returns were likely FAR less complicated.

 

[Blue2010]

Agreed, but never bring up GAAP again. I don't know what I hated talking about more in school, GAAP or Sarbanes-Oxley.

Thank Enron

 

[gunslingerdick]

Voters want to know a candidate's effective tax rate, the charities to which the candidate donates, how the candidate invests, etc. It can help round out the candidate's profile, which is important whether you vote based on character or policy or some combination of the two. .

Not at all important to me. I've never cared to look at previous candidates' info. Because one, I don't fully understand the tax codes and two, I think it's just another piece of information that is used to demonize candidates that have been financially successful. "Look at how much Candidate X made last year. He's not in touch with the common man." Pretty much anyone that's ever run for President makes way more money than the average American. Is there really a difference to you whether a guy is worth $25 million and $250 million? Both are numbers the average American can't even get their heads around. Lastly, as Blue stated, every single American alive is going to do whatever they can do to pay as little in taxes as possible. I'd be worried if that wasn't the case with a particular candidate. To me, that would show poor decision making and a willingness to get bent over.

I just don't think a tax return is indicative of how a candidate shapes their policies. That being said, you have a right to be wrong by disagreeing with me. IMO, that's a fact.

I agree.

Again, just my opinion, but running for the highest office in the country demands a certain amount of disclosure. A refusal to release tax returns looks like you have something to hide.

But I do agree with that. Like I said, I don't care and I won't pay attention even when Trump does release it. But he has to do it for the quoted reason above.

 

[tarheel0910]

Because one, I don't fully understand the tax codes

This is another reason why this is a bogus issue. The vast majority of people in the country don't understand the tax code. If they did @Blue2010 wouldn't have a job. I can guarantee you at least 99% of the people bitching about this will not even look at the return if he releases it.

 

[Blue2010]

This is another reason why this is a bogus issue. The vast majority of people in the country don't understand the tax code. If they did @Blue2010 wouldn't have a job. I can guarantee you at least 99% of the people bitching about this will not even look at the return if he releases it.

I feed on the ignorance of many!

 

[Raising Heel]

This is another reason why this is a bogus issue. The vast majority of people in the country don't understand the tax code. If they did @Blue2010 wouldn't have a job. I can guarantee you at least 99% of the people bitching about this will not even look at the return if he releases it.

Disagree. You don't have to understand one iota of tax code to get a sense of the candidate's financial position. And while I agree with your 99% number, that's not the point. The point is transparency.

 

[Blue2010]

Disagree. You don't have to understand one iota of tax code to get a sense of the candidate's financial position. And while I agree with your 99% number, that's not the point. The point is transparency.

Without using Google, what is the difference between gross income and a person's AGI?

 

[Raising Heel]

Without using Google, what is the difference between gross income and a person's AGI?

LOL, I'm an accountant too.

 

[tarheel0910]

LOL, I'm an accountant too.

 

[prlyles]

Without using Google, what is the difference between gross income and a person's AGI?

RH is right, this has nothing to do with the tax codes. People want to know WHERE the candidate makes and keeps his money and WHO he gives money to.

 

[Raising Heel]

People want to know WHERE the candidate makes and keeps his money and WHO he gives money to.

Thank you. Why can't I be this succinct?

 

[Blue2010]

LOL, I'm an accountant too.

I'm surprised, then, that this would be a point of contention. There are SO MANY factors that go into tax returns of business owners that there is no real benefit to him releasing them. The only outcome, as GSD mentioned, is some sleazy weasel on the other side knit-picking to find any angle possible to create bad press.

 

[Raising Heel]

I'm surprised, then, that this would be a point of contention. There are SO MANY factors that go into tax returns of business owners that there is no real benefit to him releasing them. The only outcome, as GSD mentioned, is some sleazy weasel on the other side knit-picking to find any angle possible to create bad press.

And yet virtually every candidate in my lifetime has done it. Again, it just makes Trump look like he has something to hide. Romney's reluctance to release his, or more than one year of his, was a far bigger story than their actual contents.

 

[tarheel0910]

RH is right, this has nothing to do with the tax codes. People want to know WHERE the candidate makes and keeps his money and WHO he gives money to.

Disagree. If they did, they would actually look at the return. Almost no one outside of the media will actually look at it. Regardless, how does any of that reflect his policies? You can't say "well, he donates to the red cross so that means he plans to build a wall." The only thing you could make an argument for is that you might be able to detect something about his character. Even then, that's not going to tell you that much. Hillary's return doesn't have a deduction for private servers and Trump's return doesn't have a deduction for stupid comments. It distracts from the real issues. I guess it's just a matter of opinion.

 

[Blue2010]

And yet virtually every candidate in my lifetime has done it. Again, it just makes Trump look like he has something to hide. Romney's reluctance to release his, or more than one year of his, was a far bigger story than their actual contents.

I would be more interested in the contents of those emails that were stored - and then deleted - from HRC's email.

I understand what you are attempting to say here regarding simply wanting the warm & fuzzies of physically seeing, on paper, where Trump's money went. I just personally find it beyond irrelevant for this specific topic. Plenty of other areas -- 100% for handing over tax documents...but I see absolutely no correlation between that and his ability to be a "leader of men" and get this country back on track. None, whatsoever. JMHO

 

[UNC71-00]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Trump demanded transparency yet offers none himself. Just another hypocrite.

Your sarcasm is duly noted, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't complain about Hillary's emails containing classified information but also dismiss Trump's remarks.

Unless the emails are released, we will never know if they contained classified or unclassified government information- at this point, any govt information on those 30k emails constitutes a crime for willfully refusing to disclose govt documents and withholding FOIA docs. Trump may be doing Hillary a service if those emails really are about yoga pants, although I might vomit if I have to look at a pic of Hillary wearing something from Athleta.

That whole transparency-hypocrisy argument died a complete and full death with Obama. Not even worthy of comment.

And transparency only applies to public service. Now, if you have some reason to think his financials will show criminal behavior like taking bribes and calling the bribes "profits from trading in cattle futures", then this should be explored further.

 

[UNC71-00]

North Korea says Trump isn't screwy at all, a wise choice for president

North Korea trying an ancient Far East mind trick of getting you to vote for Hillary. It only works on people who would have voted for Hillary anyways.

 

[Raising Heel]

I guess it's just a matter of opinion.

That's a fact.