Very quick stuff (BC game)...

[gary-7]

...and may the force just go away.

As I've tried to explain, too often in vain, in these TCB games it's not about the opponent --- it's about US. And unfortunately, unlike the last game when we did some encouraging things, we just sucked balls tonight. Thus, this won't take long, lest I have to relive too much of that crapfest.

Let's get it over with:

- It was like Thanos f***ed with the Time Stone and sent us back 2 months --- all the bad habits reared their ugly heads. RJ's hands should be sore from so damned much dribbling and Caleb musta thought the ball would deflate if he didn't shoot it soon enough. Sheesh.

- And thing is, the guys who try to do things right end up looking passive simply because they seldom touch the ball.

-and just good grief at the forces. Even Puff got into the act on one of the most inexplicable fast break forces I can remember. He and RJ both got yanked for those, but I'm not sure how much good it did. Hell, on a night when we were at least trying to push the ball, there were way too many unCarolina f-ups in transition, and our scarce numbers reflected it.

- On a night without Washington (hurts an ankle during shoot-around? -- just wow at the bad luck) I'll just say that things got VERY sketchy any time Mando was out, and leave it at that.

Anyway, screw it, that's enough. This one needs to be used in the film room to teach how NOT to do things, and then forgotten. We have more business to attend to. Just bleah...

 

[heels05champs]

I’ve come to the conclusion that there is nothing Love can possibly do to get himself disciplined on the bench. He has a leash that no other player is privy to.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

and we have ****ing idiots on the game thread who say Caleb is out of his slump…..he shot 7-18 overall and 2-10 from 3. and only had 1 assist.

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

Got to give credit when and where it happens and since Love has been everybody’s red headed stepchild u must agree he was a major factor in winning time tonight. Right after BC had made a great run to reduce the lead to just one point Love ❤️ hit a monster three from the top, then a follow up basket that put the lead back to six and then immediately took a charge…Sometimes as much as u want to trash the kid for not playing up to your unrealistic expectations u must also say good game Caleb and tonight was one of those times…

 

[ChiShankCity]

Got to give credit when and where it happens and since Love has been everybody’s red headed stepchild u must agree he was a major factor in winning time tonight. Right after BC had made a great run to reduce the lead to just one point Love ❤️ hit a monster three from the top, then a follow up basket that put the lead back to six and then immediately took a charge…Sometimes as much as u want to trash the kid for not playing up to your unrealistic expectations u must also say good game Caleb and tonight was one of those times…

Yea, I think this is the better case scenario for Caleb. His average game is basically tonight’s shooting game plus one made 3.

You hope when the team needs a bucket or a play, he’ll make it because he has the stones to.

Can’t expect him to be something that he’s not. He’s a woefully inefficient player who has the talent to make winning plays in crunch time.

 

[DaveChapelle]

...and may the force just go away.

As I've tried to explain, too often in vain, in these TCB games it's not about the opponent --- it's about US. And unfortunately, unlike the last game when we did some encouraging things, we just sucked balls tonight. Thus, this won't take long, lest I have to relive too much of that crapfest.

Let's get it over with:

- It was like Thanos f***ed with the Time Stone and sent us back 2 months --- all the bad habits reared their ugly heads. RJ's hands should be sore from so damned much dribbling and Caleb musta thought the ball would deflate if he didn't shoot it soon enough. Sheesh.

- And thing is, the guys who try to do things right end up looking passive simply because they seldom touch the ball.

-and just good grief at the forces. Even Puff got into the act on one of the most inexplicable fast break forces I can remember. He and RJ both got yanked for those, but I'm not sure how much good it did. Hell, on a night when we were at least trying to push the ball, there were way too many unCarolina f-ups in transition, and our scarce numbers reflected it.

- On a night without Washington (hurts an ankle during shoot-around? -- just wow at the bad luck) I'll just say that things got VERY sketchy any time Mando was out, and leave it at that.

Anyway, screw it, that's enough. This one needs to be used in the film room to teach how NOT to do things, and then forgotten. We have more business to attend to. Just bleah...

Nothing about Love in the 2nd half? 6/8 FG and 1 huge charge taken prior to that desperate heave at the shotclock?

Or how about how well Davis continues to shoot now that his hand is healed?

How about that lineup with Nickel instead of Bacot? Blew the lead and we refused to use a timeout to get Bacot back in. He sat at the table, waiting to check in, watching the final couple BC baskets cutting away our lead.

 

[DaveChapelle]

and we have ****ing idiots on the game thread who say Caleb is out of his slump…..he shot 7-18 overall and 2-10 from 3. and only had 1 assist.

While you were too busy trashing Caleb to watch the game, those of us with brains watched the 2nd half where Caleb shot 6/8 from the field (excluding that heave at the shot clock RJ made him take) and 1 tremendously important charge taken.

Maybe you can ask the real fans to describe the 2nd half to you, since you clearly didn't watch it.

 

[gary-7]

Nothing about Love in the 2nd half? 6/8 FG and 1 huge charge taken prior to that desperate heave at the shotclock?

Or how about how well Davis continues to shoot now that his hand is healed?

How about that lineup with Nickel instead of Bacot? Blew the lead and we refused to use a timeout to get Bacot back in. He sat at the table, waiting to check in, watching the final couple BC baskets cutting away our lead.

Not sure where you're going with all that? You mean the flop Caleb baited Teddy into calling a charge? Y'know, the one that was negated by an obvious makeup on our ensuing possession?

Or like everyone else here so far, ignore RJ's constant ball-pounding including dribbling himself into no-man's land on the Secondary inviting a run-out on an ill-advised shot?

I'm with you on not calling timeout, but in general, there's myriad stuff to complain about, so go right ahead. Just leave me out of it, thank you.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

While you were too busy trashing Caleb to watch the game, those of us with brains watched the 2nd half where Caleb shot 6/8 from the field (excluding that heave at the shot clock RJ made him take) and 1 tremendously important charge taken.

Maybe you can ask the real fans to describe the 2nd half to you, since you clearly didn't watch it.

typical clown response. games are 40 minutes long, not 20. he had a much better 2nd half but that doesn’t change the fact that he continues to shoot poorly and take ill-advised shots with no consequence. 7-18, and 2-10 aren’t good. if we gave bacot or RJ half of Caleb’s misses, there’s no telling how good we’d be. Caleb is shooting sub 40% from the field on the year. That is atrocious for a guard in his position. You can pick and choose small spots where people play well to fit your narrative. it’s not reality.

 

[DaveChapelle]

typical clown response. games are 40 minutes long, not 20. he had a much better 2nd half but that doesn’t change the fact that he continues to shoot poorly and take ill-advised shots with no consequence. 7-18, and 2-10 aren’t good. if we gave bacot or RJ half of Caleb’s misses, there’s no telling how good we’d be. Caleb is shooting sub 40% from the field on the year. That is atrocious for a guard in his position. You can pick and choose small spots where people play well to fit your narrative. it’s not reality.

I sure hope the staff gave you velcro shoes. I'd hate to think of the hours you'd spend trying to tie actual laces.


Anyways, one of the best players on our team has been struggling. Real fans want to see him play better. Real fans want all the players to succeed. Well Caleb had a great 2nd half of this game. I expect the real fans to celebrate seeing him show signs of improvement, the same way we celebrated "2nd half Paige." Caleb turning the corner is important for my team. I won't say our team, because you don't support this team. You just trash the players in your normal low IQ fashion. Luckily for the real Tar Heels, this board has an ignore feature so no one has to read your ignorance ever again.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Way to go Caleb. Tremendous 2nd half. Keep building off that. The real fans will always support the players. Ignore the haters. They always find someone to hate, whether they are hanging Dean Smith in effigy or telling Leaky he isn't worthy of a scholarship.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I sure hope the staff gave you velcro shoes. I'd hate to think of the hours you'd spend trying to tie actual laces.


Anyways, one of the best players on our team has been struggling. Real fans want to see him play better. Real fans want all the players to succeed. Well Caleb had a great 2nd half of this game. I expect the real fans to celebrate seeing him show signs of improvement, the same way we celebrated "2nd half Paige." Caleb turning the corner is important for my team. I won't say our team, because you don't support this team. You just trash the players in your normal low IQ fashion. Luckily for the real Tar Heels, this board has an ignore feature so no one has to read your ignorance ever again.

using your methodology, i could mess up tying my shoes for 20 minutes straight and you’d applaud me for the few times I got it right and tell me how successful I am.

 

[montana_heel]

I think Love's play and decision making is better this year than last. He is in a nasty shooting slump. He is trying to get to the hole. I believe he is going to come out of it. When he does, we are going to look like we thought we would.

I am more bothered by the dribbling instead of moving the ball to move defenders. The latter is what creates quality shots that get shooters out of shooting slumps. Overdriving is an offense killer.

 

[imajericho]

Dang. I thought RJ played good.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

I sure hope the staff gave you velcro shoes. I'd hate to think of the hours you'd spend trying to tie actual laces.

Not sure if you are aware but that clown is one the biggest fakes on this board.
Don't waste your time man.
And unfortunately I missed the entire game

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Blew the lead and we refused to use a timeout to get Bacot back in. He sat at the table, waiting to check in

Yikes!

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Not sure if you are aware but that clown is one the biggest fakes on this board.
Don't waste your time man.
And unfortunately I missed the entire game

yet another blowhard who didn’t actually watch the game with an useless post. and he’s right Dave, don’t waste your time if you want to have an objective conversation. if you are one of those that wear your carolina blue shaded goggles so thick that you aren’t able to see reality, then i’m not your cup of tea. you know, the type of guy that doesnt think Caleb had a good game again, playing 34 minutes, shooting 7-18, 2-10 from 3, with 1 rebound and only 1 assist with as much as the ball is in his hands. Also the same guy that has watched 50 plus years of UNC basketball to know that this ain’t the Carolina Way being coached by Hubert. No accountability for one, with not much room for error for some younger guys who can actually play. And for the record, yes give me the win however we can get it at this point, but the point in which we are content or making excuses when we beat a bad BC team that is 8-11 by 8 pts at home when we know that game got closer than it should have ever gotten is a problem. But here we are, back to the “you aren’t a fan” nonsense when somebody can’t have an objective conversation about our issues or shortcomings. I’m convinced some of you would eat Carolina blue shit and swear it tastes good.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Dang. I thought RJ played good.

He is shooting so much better now that his hand has healed. He had some forced shots late, but overall I'm quite pleased by his play of late. I think part of the over-dribbling tonight was a result of Nance being reintroduced into the lineup. I still think it's a game by game matchup decision who is our best 5th player to put on the floor with Davis, Love, Black, and Bacot.

Really my only issue with RJ is how his size hurts him on defense. Maybe in late game situations we can go offense/defense subs. But most of the time we are just better off with him on the floor.

 

[alabamaheel]

Caleb was actually 5-9 in the second half, which grated is much better than he’s been doing. A couple of forced threes and also one not his fault of course. Hopefully he’ll break out on his long ball. He was definitely better tonight.

 

[alabamaheel]

RJ played a great game. Never thought he over dribbled. Looking back he might have a couple times but he spread the floor several times and dished well. I know it was a heat check and the lid would have came off the dome but that third three in transition was not a good shot. Bacot needed to be in there quicker for sure during that late run by bc.

 

[RP12]

This was my first time attending a game this season and hoped I was seeing things that weren’t really happening for a while. Our plan initially seemed to have fully reverted to three guys standing still with one dribbler and one screener. It’s confusing to hear Hubert’s frustration with continued issues but see strategy deployed that seems to increase those same issues.

 

[Tarheel75]

The one word that comes to mind in describing last night's game......

Uninspired.

8 assists on 26 made FG's is less than 30%, Not good and alarming to me.

Bacot with only 11 attempts? - when you don't get the rock to your best scorer on the regular, it results in games like we saw. RJ & Caleb took 31 shots between them which was just over half of the total shots taken in this game. As a result, it was our 3-point production that made the difference as BC shot the ball better than we did, but made no threes. Both teams made 26 FG's. The offense we displayed will get us beat going forth, as the competition gets a lot stronger.

Lest I forget...Our interior defense was terrible in this game allowing free lanes and drives to the basket with just token resistance. BC missed a handful of shots right at the basket that could have put real pressure on us given how they were able to get it down to a 1-point deficit. All season long, we have failed to hold or build on leads that we have had, and it's cost us wins.

It appears that RJ's dislocated finger on his shooting hand has healed. He is warming up on offense, but, as Gary mentioned there is too much dribbling with no movement by the rest of the players and this makes for a stagnant offense as we all witnessed. Caleb was Caleb last night. It's either "hate to love him" or "love to hate him" where his play is concerned. I dunno, he is an enigma for sure.

On Saturday we better play much better on both ends of the court or the wolfpack will steal the guy's brownies, as Roy would say in beating a team at their place.

 

[Tom79]

8 assists on 26 made FG's is less than 30%, Not good and alarming to me.
agreed '75.

and just last week we had a game with 19 assists and only 8 turn overs...

we are only going to get into tougher games, we still have to play the top half of the conference.

 

[Bubspub88]

I hope they were just looking ahead to the woofies. Complete lack of focus and poor execution. and that extends to the staff on this one for me. The bench played 30 minutes total and had 5 shots. Hubert needs to start requiring some accountability from every player and coach. It's almost February and still no consistent rotation, long stretches of pathetic play and half-hearted effort on D.

Last night was 3 steps back in my opinion.

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

Hoping that we review our lethargic and poor play, ask ourselves what the heck we were thinking
and get back to playing hard, smart, and together, i. e., CAROLINA BASKETBALL * , stat. As in Saturday
and every game left on our schedule.

*… and let’s not get into a pissing match about what Carolina Basketball is.

 

[r_u_worthy]

So is there too much dribbling because guys are not moving with purpose and cutting to be available for a pass or do the guys not cut and move because there is too much dribbling? Either way is a problem and assist numbers don't lie. We certainly looked better running when we didn't fumble it away.

 

[notashelbyfan]

I have figured out what happened to Grover, he has changed his name to DaveChapelle!

 

[Tom79]

Hoping that we review our lethargic and poor play, ask ourselves what the heck we were thinking
and get back to playing hard, smart, and together, i. e., CAROLINA BASKETBALL * , stat. As in Saturday
and every game left on our schedule.

*… and let’s not get into a pissing match about what Carolina Basketball is.

Nice DES qoute...wish the kids would "get it" cause when they do they are very good.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I have figured out what happened to Grover, he has changed his name to DaveChapelle!

you aren't the first one to call that one😂

 

[Tarheel75]

Nice DES qoute...wish the kids would "get it" cause when they do they are very good.

There has been a lot of discussion about what constitutes "Carolina Basketball"

Any coach or team that doesn't buy into playing "hard, smart & together" are not going to be successful . Several posters alluded to this in their posts. Every team has to play hard, smart & together and it's not, as some believe, our birthright in defining what Carolina Basketball is about.

What is the definition of "Carolina Basketball"?

To understand this, you have to know it's birthplace and its architect, DES.
The initial fast break offense was designed and implemented in 1967. Secondary
break came the next year 1968 with 20,22,24 offenses w/ 20 being dismissed later. The 42, & 44 variations on defense came in 1970. Over the subsequent years, Coach Smith made tweaks on both sides of the ball and, of course nomenclature changed, and I never had an inclination to keep up with-it but enjoyed watching it though.

The key to offensive success was the speed in which the players got down the court with forwards running sideline to opposite corners, and the Center up the middle and PG working on an off guard dragging a screen, if needed. Once at the top of the key the PG was to see where the weak point of the defense was and attack that position with a dribble drive and then either take a shot, if open, or pass left or right to the forwards, if open, and if not, the ball goes to the 2G to re-set or take a shot, if open once you get a collapse by the defense which happened quite frequently.

What we have been watching is not Carolina Basketball, but a poor variation of it. When this team can inbound the ball and get it in their basket 94 feet away without the ball ever touching the court, that's Carolina Basketball guys. It's like poetry in motion or watching a ballet when that happens. Knowing Coach, he would flip over in his grave most likely if he had to watch us weave in and out and burn up time and energy dribbling without a purpose. I understand that the game has evolved over the years and with today's athletes it seems that they are not as interested in winning as they are in showing out.

Take, for instance, acknowledging your teammate's pass that got you a score. That was a staple in DES's offense, and if you did not thank your teammate by pointing him out to the fans and TV watchers, you got pulled and had a seat on the bench with the others for a while. Huddling at the F/T line and making sure everyone had time & score and knew what defense we would be in. I miss those and other things that have disappeared from our Carolina Basketball.

I miss my era.

 

[gary-7]

I miss my era.

Ditto.

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

Excellent post, 75. Most of us miss the DES era and style of play and you explained why it
has morphed into what it is this era: less team-oriented play, more waste-of-time guard dribbling,
more selfish shot-taking. Unfortunately, it is today’s style of play; the caliber of players
we recruit exemplify their roots and sometimes don’t adjust as quickly as they should to our program.

 

[ChiShankCity]

There has been a lot of discussion about what constitutes "Carolina Basketball"

Any coach or team that doesn't buy into playing "hard, smart & together" are not going to be successful . Several posters alluded to this in their posts. Every team has to play hard, smart & together and it's not, as some believe, our birthright in defining what Carolina Basketball is about.

What is the definition of "Carolina Basketball"?

To understand this, you have to know it's birthplace and its architect, DES.
The initial fast break offense was designed and implemented in 1967. Secondary
break came the next year 1968 with 20,22,24 offenses w/ 20 being dismissed later. The 42, & 44 variations on defense came in 1970. Over the subsequent years, Coach Smith made tweaks on both sides of the ball and, of course nomenclature changed, and I never had an inclination to keep up with-it but enjoyed watching it though.

The key to offensive success was the speed in which the players got down the court with forwards running sideline to opposite corners, and the Center up the middle and PG working on an off guard dragging a screen, if needed. Once at the top of the key the PG was to see where the weak point of the defense was and attack that position with a dribble drive and then either take a shot, if open, or pass left or right to the forwards, if open, and if not, the ball goes to the 2G to re-set or take a shot, if open once you get a collapse by the defense which happened quite frequently.

What we have been watching is not Carolina Basketball, but a poor variation of it. When this team can inbound the ball and get it in their basket 94 feet away without the ball ever touching the court, that's Carolina Basketball guys. It's like poetry in motion or watching a ballet when that happens. Knowing Coach, he would flip over in his grave most likely if he had to watch us weave in and out and burn up time and energy dribbling without a purpose. I understand that the game has evolved over the years and with today's athletes it seems that they are not as interested in winning as they are in showing out.

"Carolina Basketball" works really well with really good players. It did for Roy. When Roy had lesser teams, the Carolina Basketball and the system looked really clunky and we were commonly hurt with really poor spacing. This team doesn't have a ton of really good players. So if we ran the primary and secondary break 1000% of the time, it would look clunky because the players aren't as good as when Felton/McCants/Williams/May and Lawson/Ellington/Green/Hansbrough ran it.

Any offensive system is pretty dependent on how many players can put pressure on the defense. We don't have a lot of guys who strike fear with the defense. When you have a limited team, you will end up relying more on isolation and traditional ball screen offense because the defense doesn't really have to respect you as much as other more talented offensive teams. It's really hard to out-system your players.

This happens all the time and it isn't new. Those years Roy was absolutely committed to running the same offense despite having a roster that didn't fit it (starting Desmond Hubert/Joel James over PJ Hairston), people like me were going crazy pointing out the flaws in the system and how the offensive system was drastically limiting the talent on the roster. This year, things haven't gone the way most people expected. So they'll blame Hubert and the people who were proponents of the traditional offensive system blame it purely on the difference of playing styles. I would argue in both cases, it's because the players just aren't all that great.

Also, here's what the numbers say:
This season 2023 - 115.0 adjusted offensive efficiency (Hubert)
2022 - 114.4 adjusted offensive efficiency (Hubert)
2021 - 110.3 adjusted offensive efficiency (Roy)
2020 - 107.7 adjusted offensive efficiency (Roy)
2019 - 119.7 adjusted offensive efficiency (Roy)

So we're actually more efficient offensively than last year despite Caleb being far less efficient and Pete Nance being far less efficient than Manek was. The main reason why we're not all that good this season is our defense has been significantly worse than last year. We're giving up 3.2 more points-per-100-possessions this year than last year.

 

[ChiShankCity]

And apologies for the double-up....

Our issues on offense are pretty simple and it might be singular. Our highest usage player is Caleb Love, who happens to be one of the least efficient guards in the country. That's your issue. Your other issue is, you probably need Caleb Love to be a high usage player if you want any chance to do anything significant in March.

This team is stuck offensively. "They're stuck with Love" shall we say?

 

[JimmyinVA]

....What we have been watching is not Carolina Basketball, but a poor variation of it....I miss those and other things that have disappeared from our Carolina Basketball....

it's not just carolina -- college hoops in general has become an imitation of playground/nba, shoot the ball as soon as you get your hands on it, pass only if you have to. team play is not totally dead in college hoops, but it is an endangered species. if there is one thing that most epitomizes dean smith's philosophy it is "no bad shots." nowadays you see bad shots on most possessions.

 

[Heelicious]

Yea, I think this is the better case scenario for Caleb. His average game is basically tonight’s shooting game plus one made 3.

You hope when the team needs a bucket or a play, he’ll make it because he has the stones to.

Can’t expect him to be something that he’s not. He’s a woefully inefficient player who has the talent to make winning plays in crunch time.

...my question is: if like 4-18 and 1 or 2-10 from 3, and 50% on FTs is all we can expect from Love, and add 2-3 guaranteed live ball turnovers per game for dunks on the other end, and a few blow bys on defense...are we saying we can't possibly find better options for some of those shots? I'd feel a lot better about 2or 3-9 than the volume shooting 4-18. Pass the ball. Give other guys a chance. HAVE to get it inside more. No way should there be a game anymore where Love has more shots than Bacot. Let alone twice as many with less than half the FG%.

 

[Heelicious]

I sure hope the staff gave you velcro shoes. I'd hate to think of the hours you'd spend trying to tie actual laces.


Anyways, one of the best players on our team has been struggling. Real fans want to see him play better. Real fans want all the players to succeed. W

[Reads "real fans" ]
[Stops reading - not worth the demeaning condescension}

 

[Heelicious]

He is shooting so much better now that his hand has healed. He had some forced shots late, but overall I'm quite pleased by his play of late. I think part of the over-dribbling tonight was a result of Nance being reintroduced into the lineup. I still think it's a game by game matchup decision who is our best 5th player to put on the floor with Davis, Love, Black, and Bacot.

Really my only issue with RJ is how his size hurts him on defense. Maybe in late game situations we can go offense/defense subs. But most of the time we are just better off with him on

Why was there almost no Trimble last night? Surely he's seemed to earn at least 10 minutes in the rotation, especially when guys need a rest, and we need a defensive lockdown stopper. Way better option than Nickel.

 

[ChiShankCity]

...my question is: if like 4-18 and 1 or 2-10 from 3, and 50% on FTs is all we can expect from Love, and add 2-3 guaranteed live ball turnovers per game for dunks on the other end, and a few blow bys on defense...are we saying we can't possibly find better options for some of those shots? I'd feel a lot better about 2or 3-9 than the volume shooting 4-18. Pass the ball. Give other guys a chance. HAVE to get it inside more. No way should there be a game anymore where Love has more shots than Bacot. Let alone twice as many with less than half the FG%.

That's a little extreme for his expectations. He's more of a 7/18 and 3/10 player in terms of his shooting.

I can't disagree with you that if Dunn or Trimble get more of those opportunities that they'll be better. I also have no idea if they won't be better. I haven't seen lineup breakdowns on if Dunn's better shooting is coming against opponent's second units, etc. I think the conversation is more layered than just Caleb's inefficiency. Also, Dunn's 3-pt percentage is off a pretty small sample size. I don't really know what he is as a shooter. I'm guessing if he were a really good perimeter shooter, he would play more? Because this team really needs one.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

Ditto.

x2